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Trump Spews Lies And Misinformation In Call With Georgia Secretary Of State; Interview With Sen. Chris Van Hollen (D-MD); Jimmy Carter, Rock And Roll President. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired January 03, 2021 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:33]
ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Big breaking news on this Sunday night. A brand new crisis for the nation and President Trump captured on audio, attempting to sway the results of the election he clearly lost. Listen to this phone call between the president and Georgia's Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger on Saturday first obtained by "The Washington Post."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Whatever, it's a disaster. It's a disaster. Look, here's the problem. We can go through signature verification and we'll find hundreds of thousands of signatures, if you let us do it. And the only way you can do it as you know is to go to the past. But you didn't do that in Cobb County. You just looked at one page compared to another.
The only way you can do a signature verification is go from the one that signed it in -- on November whatever, recently, and compare it to two years ago, four years ago, six years ago, you know, or even one. And you'll find that you have many different signatures. But in Fulton, where they dumped the ballots, you will find that you have many that aren't even signed. And you have many that are forgeries. OK?
You know that. You know that. You have no doubt about that. And you will find -- you will be at 11,779 within minutes because Fulton County is totally corrupt and so is she totally corrupt. And they're going around playing you and laughing at you behind your back, Brad, whether you know it or not. They are laughing at you. And you've taken a state that's a Republican state and you've made it almost impossible for a Republican to win because of cheating, because they cheated like nobody's ever cheated before.
And I don't care how long it takes me. You know, we're going to have other states coming forward pretty good. But I won't -- this has never given -- this is -- we have some incredible talent said they've never seen anything -- now the problem is they need more time for the big numbers. But there are very substantial numbers. But -- and I think you're going to find that -- by the way, a little information.
I think you're going to find that they are shredding ballots because they have to get rid of the ballots. Because the ballots are unsigned. The ballots are corrupt. And they are brand-new and they don't have seals. There's a whole thing with the ballots. But the ballots are corrupt. And you're going to find that they are -- which is totally illegal. It's more illegal for you than it is for them, because you know what they did and you're not reporting it.
That's -- you know, that's a criminal -- that's a criminal offense. And, you know, you can't let that happen. That's a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer. That's a big risk. But they are shredding ballots, in my opinion, based on what I've heard. And they are removing machinery and they're moving it as fast as they can. Both of which are criminal finds. And you can't let it happen. And you are letting it happen. You know, I mean, I'm notifying you that you're letting it happen.
So look, all I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state and flipping the state is a great testament to our country. Because, you know, there's just -- it's a testament that they can admit to a mistake or whatever you want to call it, if it was a mistake. I don't know. A lot of people think it wasn't a mistake. It was much more criminal than that. But it's a big problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: This is the sitting president of the United States. The leader of the free world pushing for an alternate ending to the lawful vote already confirmed and certified in Georgia just like all 50 states with no factual basis. The president repeatedly trying to pressure Raffensperger him into probing conspiracy theories. Raffensperger and his general counsel refused.
Again, that's President Donald Trump trying to force the top elections official in Georgia into somehow finding enough votes to change the outcome of the 2020 presidential election in that state, following at least three recounts there, even a signature audit in one of the big counties, just like he asked for.
[20:05:06]
This is just hours before that audio came out, Raffensperger shutting down the president's attempts to spin the call before the world got a chance to hear it. But now we know what really happened. Already this Sunday, the man who led the effort to convict President Trump after his impeachment just one year ago, House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff, is suggesting the president's actions are potentially criminal.
The Senate's number two Democrat, Dick Durbin, saying, quote, "His disgraceful effort to intimidate an elected official strikes at the heart of our democracy and merits nothing less than a criminal investigation." And Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer's message for Trump allies in the electoral college battle, like Senator Ted Cruz, "You want to investigate election fraud? Start with this."
We begin our coverage this hour with CNN's Kyung Lah in Georgia and John Harwood at the White House. Kyung, we are down now to the final hours until this crucial Senate
runoff election in Georgia. And that's where you heard from Vice President-elect Kamala Harris this afternoon. What's she saying about this explosive audio?
KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and let's remember why she matters so much here because if the Democrats are able to flip these two seats in Georgia, these Senate seats, and these Democratic challengers win, then it would be Vice President-elect Kamala Harris, as the vice president, she becomes a tiebreaker and then Democrats effectively have control of the U.S. Senate and the House. So that is what is at stake here and that's why you are hearing her really go after the president about this audio. Here is what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Have you all heard about that recorded conversation? Well, it was, yes, certainly the voice of desperation. Most certainly that. And it was a bold, boldfaced, bold abuse of power by the president of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAH: Let's review what has happened here in the state of Georgia. There has not just been this election, you know, the first count. There was a statewide audit. There was a hand recount. And then there was a signature match in Cobb County, one of the most populous counties here in the state of Georgia.
So all of this was done, Ana, here in the state of Georgia. And yet the president is still saying that on the phone call.
CABRERA: And, John, this is Georgia. Even if the results from this election were somehow overturned, it wouldn't even make a difference in the overall result. Joe Biden would still have more than 270 electoral votes to win. So why do this?
JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think the president cannot accept the fact that he was defeated. Look, he is today the most powerful person on earth as the president of the United States. In 18 days, he is going to be a private citizen, 74 years old, with major legal and financial problems. That's a big transition.
Donald Trump is also somebody who psychologically has found it very difficult to accept the idea that he could lose, be a loser. That was part of his upbringing. We read about that in Mary Trump, his niece's book earlier this year or last year, rather. So Donald Trump is struggling with the blow to his ego, to his reputation, to his image. And he can't give it up.
He is going to have to give it up because he's lost the election. And the Congress is going to end up certifying that electoral college tally as all 50 states have. Joe Biden is going to be president on January 20th. But he is going to be kicking and screaming all the way.
CABRERA: OK, John Harwood and Kyung Lah, I really appreciate your reporting tonight. Thank you both.
Let me bring in Democratic Senator from Maryland, Chris Van Hollen now.
Senator, what did you hear in this phone call?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Well, Ana, I heard a desperate president, a delusional president who knows the walls are closing in on him, and is trying his last great con. He's gotten away with this so many times. Republican members of Congress have let him get away with it. But this time he's run up against a wall and you have both the secretary of state, the Republican secretary of state, and the governor of Georgia standing up for what everybody else knows is reality, which is the fact that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won in Georgia.
The president can't stand it. And he's looking for every way out. What's been really, really despicable is to watch so many Republican senators fuel this false narrative of the president.
CABRERA: Senator Dick Durbin says this merits a criminal probe. Do you agree?
VAN HOLLEN: It has all the elements of a criminal action because you have the president trying to illegally change the results of an election by essentially threatening the secretary of state and others here.
[20:10:10]
So I certainly think it merits a good look. Whether or not people decide to actually prosecute at some point, that's a separate issue obviously. The president is facing many potential legal actions when he leaves office in 17 days.
CABRERA: What can Congress do about this?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, in the short-term, what I hope Congress will do is resoundly reject the president's, you know, challenge and efforts to overturn the results. And Congress will have a chance to do that on Wednesday. And sadly, we have seen these Republican senators, 12 of them now, line up to undermine our democracy as part of their own political ambition, and support and spread these lies.
I would say that in the case of the Georgia senators who, of course, on the ballot on Tuesday, they've so far said nothing about the president's attack on the rule of law and the people's will in the state of Georgia. The people of Georgia deserve to hear where they stand on this important matter.
CABRERA: I have to say it crossed my mind as Republicans are planning to mount this electoral college dispute on Wednesday, will Democrats -- will you be playing parts of this recording on the Senate floor?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, this recording just exposes the fact that all of this has been a pure power play by the president. His legal actions all ran dry. They were rejected overwhelmingly. And now he's taken to threatening. So I would hope that this tape gives, you know, some pause to Republican senators who might otherwise have been planning to go along with this charade. Sadly, what we've seen time and again is them, you know, feed his narrative.
And in the process, they -- of their appeasing him time and again, they've created this monster who has really devoured the Republican Party. So I have to say, Ana, we will definitely point to this recording as an example on how the president is first trying to bully his way to overturning the election. But what we've seen from Republicans time and again, so many of them, is this willingness to feed the president's delusions.
CABRERA: Have you been in touch with any of your Republican colleagues today? Could this be a red line for any of those people who haven't, you know, up to this point at least, broken with the president?
VAN HOLLEN: I have not spoken to any of them today. I was heartened by some of the statements that we've seen from people like Senator Toomey and Senator Sasse, you know, Senator Mitt Romney. Those obviously were important statements. But right now, they represent, you know, a relatively small number of the Republican caucus. Hopefully, that perspective will gain traction.
And on Wednesday, we will have a chance to debate it. And I think it's going to be really important, Ana, that those Republican senators who are going to stand for upholding the rule of law and against overturning this election based on this fraudulent narrative, it's going to be really important that they stand up and speak very clearly and forcefully.
CABRERA: Senator Ted Cruz is one of the 12 GOP senators expected to object to the certification of Joe Biden's election win on Wednesday. Here's how he defended that decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Dismissing these claims I think does real violence to our democratic system. We ought to have a serious fair process and tribunal to consider these claims, consider them quickly, consider them expeditiously. We can do it in 10 days before the inauguration. I think that would take major steps towards re- establishing trust in our democratic process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Senator, what's your response?
VAN HOLLEN: Look, this is such a charade. And he really should be embarrassed because he knows better. What's happened here, of course, is the president has fed a lie. And instead of standing up to it, Senator Cruz and others have fed that lie. And now they're saying, oh, millions of Americans have fallen for what we have said. And therefore we have to have this commission to show that the lies that we've been telling are not really true. That is a bunch of nonsense and I do think most people see through it.
And their own Senate Republican colleagues have called out what this is. This is the beginning of the race for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination.
[20:15:05]
And you see a lot of these Trump wannabes, at least Republican senators who want to pick up the Trump following, and instead of standing up for the Constitution and protecting their oath of office, they're engaging in anti-democratic farce. And it really is a sad day for the Republican Party when they engage in this kind of activity. Unfortunately, it's what we've come to expect.
CABRERA: Bottom line, it's not going to change the outcome. Joe Biden is still going to be sworn in as president on January 20th. But does this have long-term consequences?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, you're right. The good news is in 17 days, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris will be sworn in. The bad news is that Donald Trump is there for another 17 days. And as we've seen him do a lot of damage, and the damage is long-term. This does eat away at public confidence in our democracy. And you do have these millions of Americans who have, you know, been fed this false narrative.
Joe Biden has made it clear, he's going to work very hard to unite the country. But what these Republican senators are doing is making it that much harder, because they are again engaging in this lie that somehow Donald Trump was cheated out of an election. So this is just going to mean that Joe Biden's task is that much harder.
We're all going to have to come together as Americans to try to make sure that we can tackle those challenges. What we are seeing from, you know, the likes of Senator Ted Cruz and Senator Hawley obviously is poisoning the well.
CABRERA: Senator Chris Van Hollen, I appreciate your time this evening. Thanks for joining us. We will all be watching very, very closely come Wednesday.
VAN HOLLEN: Yes. Good to be with you. Thanks, Ana.
CABRERA: You'll hear much more of this stunning conversation between President Trump and Georgia's Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger as we continue here in the CNN NEWSROOM. We'll also talk about the legality of all of this with Preet Bharara next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CABRERA: Our breaking news on this Sunday night, an incredible recording of President Trump pressuring Georgia's secretary of state to find, as he put it, enough ballots to change the election result after he decisively lost to Joe Biden in November. We have more of this audio for you.
[20:20:01] And Preet Bharara, the former U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, who was fired by the president, joins us tonight as well. He's standing by. We'll talk with him in just a moment. But first, listen to another extended portion of this call that is stunning the nation tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAFFENSPERGER: But, Mr. President, the challenge that you have is the data you have is wrong. We talked to the congressmen and they were surprised but they -- I guess there was a person named Mr. Braynard that came to these meetings and presented data, and he said that there was dead people I believe it was upwards of 5,000. The actual number were two. Two. Two people that were dead that voted. And so that's wrong. That was two --
TRUMP: Well, Cleta, how do you respond to that? I mean, you tell me.
CLETA MITCHELL, PROMINENT GOP LAWYER: What I will say, Mr. Secretary, one of the things that we have requested -- and we do. What we said was -- and if you look at the -- if you read our petition, it said that we took the names and birth years and, you know, we had certain information available to us. We have asked from your office for records that only you have. And so we said there's a universe of people who have the same name and same birth year and died, but we don't have the records that you have.
And one of the things that we have been suggesting formally and informally for weeks now is to try -- is for you to make available to us the records that would be necessary to confirm --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: But, Cleta, even before you do that -- Cleta, even before you do that, and not even including it, that's why I hardly even included that number, although in one state we have a tremendous amount of dead people. So I don't know. I'm sure we do in Georgia, too. I'm sure we do in Georgia, too. But is that we're so far ahead -- we're so far ahead of these numbers, even the phony ballots of (bleeped) known scammer.
You know the internet? You know what was trending on the internet? Where is (bleeped)? Because they thought she'd be in jail. Where's (bleeped)? It's crazy. It's crazy. That was -- the minimum number is 18,000 for (bleeped), but they think it's probably about 56,000. But the minimum number is 18,000 (bleeped) night where she ran back in there when everybody was gone and stuff.
She stuffed the ballot boxes, let's face it, Brad. I mean, they did it in slow motion replay magnified. Right? She stuffed the ballot boxes. They were stuffed like nobody has ever seen them stuffed before. So there's a term for it when it's a machine instead of a ballot box. But she stuffed the machines. She stuffed the ballot.
Each -- each ballot went three times. They were showing. Here's ballot number one, here it is a second time, third time, next ballot. I mean, look, Brad, this is -- we have a new tape that we're going to release. It's devastating. And, by the way, that one event, that one event is much more than the 11,000 votes that we're talking about. It's, you know -- that one event was a disaster. It's just -- you know, but it was -- it was something that -- it can't be disputed.
Yet again, we have a version that you haven't seen, but it's magnified. It's magnified and you can see everything. And she put -- for some reason, they put it in three times, each ballot. And I don't know why. But you know -- why, I don't know why three times? Why not five times, right? But -- yes, go ahead.
RAFFENSPERGER: You're talking about the State Farm video and I think it's extremely unfortunate that Rudy Giuliani or his people, they sliced and diced that video and took it out of context. So the next day we brought in WSB-TV, and we let them see the full run of tape and what you'll see events that transpired are nowhere near what was projected by --
TRUMP: But where were the poll watchers, Brad? There were no poll watchers there. There were no Democrats or Republicans. There was no security there. It was late in the evening. Late in the -- early in the morning. And there was nobody else in the room. Where were the poll watchers? And why did they say a water main broke, which they did, and which is reported in the newspapers?
They said they left -- they ran out because of a water main break and there was no water main. There was nothing. There was no break. There was no water main break. But if you take out everything, where were the Republican poll watchers, even where were the Democrat poll watchers? Because there were none. And then you say, well, they left their station. You know, if you look at the tape, and this was -- this was reviewed by professional police and detectives and other people.
[20:25:09]
When they left in a rush, everybody left in a rush because of the water main, but everybody left in a rush, these people left their station. When they came back, they didn't go to their station. They went to the apron wrapped around the table under which were thousands and thousands of ballots in a box that was not an official or a sealed box. And then they took those and they went back to a different station.
So if they would have come back, they would have walked to their station and they would have continued to work. But they couldn't do even that because that's illegal because they had no Republican poll watchers. And, remember, her reputation is -- she's known all over the internet, Brad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: As our banner at the bottom there says, these are lies, this is misinformation, these are conspiracy theories. What appearing from the president in this call are bunch of allegations, it's bogus and they have been investigated, the issues he brings up have been litigated. And there's just no, no evidence that there was any kind of election fraud or any irregularity that would change the result of this election in Georgia or any other state.
So let's talk with Preet Bharara. I'm just curious how you would characterize this call, Preet.
PREET BHARARA, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I would characterize it the same way you just did. It's grasping at straws, it's making arguments that are basically innuendo. Scurrilous, desperate, tardy. And they don't fly in any way, shape or form.
You know, what's sort of interesting about this is, the president is very specific about one thing. At one point in the call, I don't think in the segment that was just played, at one point he says, you know, what he really he needs is 11,780 votes. Very specific number because that's the number he believes was the gap and that he needs to overturn the election.
With respect to the allegations, they are very vague. You know, it sounded somewhat specific in the context of the recording you just played. But over and over again in the call, the president says that the basis for believing those things is a rumor and opinion, and what he's heard.
And by the way, as you point out I think very correctly and importantly, time and time again in the two months since the election -- you know, the election was November 3rd, today is January 3rd. Some if not all of these arguments have been made to courts, often to courts that had panels of Republican judges, including all the way up to the United States Supreme Court, not Georgia, but Pennsylvania, that has a third of its justices appointed by this president.
So it's try, try again to figure out some last-ditch way of remaining in power. And I think we've crossed the point of even calling it ridiculous. It's now, I think, a tremendous abuse of power. I tend to think that if there were more days left in the term that, you know, another round of impeachment based on this obstruction and attempt to change democracy in this country is a really profoundly disturbing thing that we've never seen before.
CABRERA: Preet, was what President Trump did illegal?
BHARARA: So it could be. I'm not one of those people who jumps on TV and says everything is a crime and can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to a unanimous jury, federal or state. But if you look at the statutes, both the federal statutes and the Georgia state statutes, if you engage in some effort to solicit or procure election fraud, and you knowingly do that, that's potentially a federal or a state crime. And state crimes of course are not subject to presidential pardon, even if it's possible to pardon himself, which I don't believe it is.
The question is, what did the president intend? And, you know, there are a lot of people who like to jump to the conclusion, not just critics of the president, but detractors of the president who say, well, he doesn't know what he's talking, he actually believes the lies. There's an argument, I guess, you know, somewhat perversely and subversively that his lawyers could make that, you know, he does believe that this fraud happened. And so by making these requests, he is not doing anything knowingly or willfully or intentionally.
I tend not to buy that because the president is the leader of the country. He was smart enough to get elected. He is smart enough to try to figure out ways to try to undo the election, even if they're not going to amount to anything. And the fact that he is very specific about the votes that he needs, the number of votes that he needs, is not about fraud, it's not about integrity of the system, it's about getting that bare minimum number of votes to switch the election result in Georgia to him. That's a pretty powerful argument that he knows what he's doing.
CABRERA: And I do want to read that quote that you keep referencing. At one point, President Trump says, so, look, all I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes which is one more than we have, because we won the state, he said, and the secretary of state also pushing back as he goes on and on, saying the data you have is wrong.
[20:30:02]
The president, you know, was already impeached for a different phone call. He's going to be out of office now in 17 days, and you talk about impeachment. How could this play out realistically? How could the president be held accountable for this on his way out of office?
BHARARA: Well, you know, 17 days is not a lot of time. And there's talk in Republican circles of having a commission. That doesn't fly either whether or not you think it's a good idea. I think the way this plays out -- and who knows, because things are getting crazier and crazier, including the other thing that's been overshadowed today, which is all the 10 living former Defense secretaries have put out a pretty extraordinary statement about making sure that the military is not used in connection with the election.
So I guess anything can happen. But Wednesday will come and go. We'll see how many senators and how many House members object. That debate I think has a finite conclusion. After that, I don't know if there's a way credibly to hold the president accountable in the last 17 days. I do think as you referenced earlier that there is some possibility that prosecutors, either federal or state, will take a look at this.
I think there's also a role for Congress to play even after the president has left office to figure out all these things that have been going on. You know, you referenced the phone call. I bet there could be a complete excavation simply in the category universe of things that the president has done on the phone. And one of the reasons as you introduced me as someone who's been fired by the president was the date -- two days before I was fired by the president, he called me, as some people know.
And I didn't take the call because even back then, in the first few weeks of the administration, you had a feeling of what President Trump's MO is. And his MO is to cross ethical lines, perhaps even criminal legal lines, and try to get people to bend to his will, even if they have a duty and an obligation, they've sworn an oath to uphold the Constitution as I did.
CABRERA: So you already knew it back then?
BHARARA: Well, I had some suspicion and some worry about it. And look, back then, I had a concern, as obviously, you know, the secretary of state in Georgia had. And if he's the one who did the recording, then clearly he had this concern that the president misconstrues and lies about conversations he has with other people.
You know, during the course of impeachment and the special counsel investigation, the president of the United States said things to people including to Jim Comey about laying off of Michael Flynn. He doesn't have a good relationship with facts and truth. And so I think there are people, including people, by the way, in his orbit, like Michael Cohen and others, who have worried that conversations that they had with the president will be misconstrued. And they either take notes or they record those conversations because President Trump lies about them.
And sometimes -- there comes a point when even public servants need to protect their reputations and protect the truth.
CABRERA: Yes. Preet Bharara, I always learn a lot listening to you.
BHARARA: Thanks, Ana.
CABRERA: Thank you so much for taking the time.
The president is headed to Georgia tomorrow to hold a rally in support of the two Republicans facing runoffs for that state's -- in their two Senate seats. So will these recordings impact those races? And what may the president say to supporters tomorrow? We'll discuss next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:36:34]
CABRERA: We continue following breaking news involving the White House and President Trump caught on tape trying to shake down Georgia's Republican secretary of state telling him to alter the vote count and deliver Trump a manufactured 2020 Georgia victory.
Now CNN has obtained audio of this entire call which took place yesterday. Here is a portion of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: So, look, all I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state.
So tell me, Brad, what are we going to do? We won the election. And it's not fair to take it away from us like this. And it's going to be very costly in many ways.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Stephen Fowler, political reporter at George Public Broadcasting, joins us now. Stephen, you have been on top of this story. You heard the entire
tape. What were your takeaways?
STEPHEN FOWLER, HOST, "BATTLEGROUND BALLOT BOX": Well, much of what President Trump said privately to Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger has been what he has said in public, even the fact that he needs about 12,000 votes to overturn the election and claiming that he had tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands more. But it's really just kind of the anger and aggressiveness and the president's tone alternating with trying to flatter Brad Raffensperger, that just shows that this is kind of the last ditch effort for the president trying to stay in power when all signs point to Joe Biden becoming the next president of the United States in a couple of weeks.
CABRERA: At times it sounds like the president is like begging him to do something. Shortly before this audio leaked, Georgia's Secretary of State Raffensperger hinted that something may be coming, tweeting, "Respectfully, President Trump what you're saying is not true. The truth will come out." Did Raffensperger know this audio was about to drop?
FOWLER: Well, the Secretary of State Raffensperger has been consistent his entire time in office and this entire election cycle in being an arbiter of truth and telling people how the election system works and where the facts are. And I have not spoken to the secretary of state. The Secretary of State's office declined to comment on this tape coming out.
But I do know that plenty of people in the Secretary of State's Office have been really fed up with the attacks that the president has brought upon election workers in Georgia from poll workers all the way up to, yes, the secretary of state who has faced death threats. So he is well aware that his staff is pretty tired of the way the president is treating that office.
CABRERA: And I'm sure his family is concerned, too. And yet he holds true to the facts in this phone call with the president.
I know you've been covering Georgia's two Senate runoffs which take place on Tuesday. For some time now those crucial races were a big topic on this phone call during other portions of it. How do you see this leak affecting things with just a couple of days now to go?
FOWLER: Well, there's nothing exactly revelatory that would move the needle for one side or the other in the sense that we have seen in early voting data that some of President Trump's strongest supporters are not voting in the same way that they did in the general election. And we see that Democrats have had a higher turnout, more comparable to the general election.
[20:40:07]
So we're just seeing that some Republicans are staying home. Now there is a hope that on election day there's a large Republican surge but given the rates of turnouts, especially with black voters in southwest Georgia, it would take a massive, massive turnout of Republican voters to undo the early voting advantage that Democrats have accrued.
And we heard today, Vice President-elect Kamala Harris campaigning down in Savannah say that President Trump's actions were despicable and really using it to fire up Democrats.
CABRERA: I only have about 30 seconds. But I wonder, are Republican voters there in Georgia frustrated by Trump's constant focus on the 2020 November results? Or do they welcome this?
FOWLER: Well, the ones that would be frustrated are ones that are either not voting or not voting Republican in the Senate race.
CABRERA: All right. Stephen Fowler, appreciate it. Thank you.
FOWLER: Thank you.
CABRERA: Much more on our breaking news in just a moment. President Trump in a new audio recording now obtained by CNN trying to pressure Georgia's secretary of state to magically find him votes so he could win the state. This is a phone call that happened just yesterday. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CABRERA: Back with our breaking news. President Trump in a phone call pushing the Georgia secretary of state to find votes in order to overturn his verified loss in the November election. This audio was first obtained by "The Washington Post." We have now obtained a recording of the entire phone call.
I want you to listen to it yourself, to another portion of a sitting president piling on the pressure and stopping at nothing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: She's known all over. I'm telling you, where is (bleeped)? Was one of the hot items on the (bleeped). They knew her. Where is (bleeped). So, Brad, you know, there can be no justification for that.
[20:45:02]
And I -- you know, I give everybody the benefit of the doubt. But that was -- and, Brad, why did they put the votes in three times? You know, they put them in three times.
RAFFENSPERGER: Mr. President, they did not put that -- we did an audit of that. And we've proved conclusively that they were not scanned three times.
TRUMP: But where was everybody else at that late time in the morning? Where was everybody? Where were the Republicans? Where were the security guards? Where were the people that were there just a little while before when everyone ran out of the room? How come we had no security in the room? Why did they run to the bottom of the table? Why did they run there and just open the skirt and rip out the -- and rip out the votes? I mean, Brad, they were sitting there I think for five hours or
something like that, the votes. But they just all happened to run back and go, you know -- Brad --
RAFFENSPERGER: Yes, Mr. President, we will send you the link from WSB that --
TRUMP: I don't care about a link. I don't need it. I have a much better --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: We're going to have a much better link.
MITCHELL: Mr. Secretary, I will tell you, I have seen the tape, the full tape. So has Alex. We've watched it. And what we saw and what we've confirmed in the timing is that they made everybody leave. We have sworn affidavits saying that. And then they began to process ballots. And our estimate is that there were roughly 18,000 ballots. We don't know that. If you know that --
TRUMP: It was 18,000 ballots, but they used each one three times.
MITCHELL: Well, I don't know about that but I know --
TRUMP: Well, I do because we have -- we had ours magnified out. So --
MITCHELL: But we have watched --
(CROSSTALK)
MITCHELL: I have watched the entire tape.
TRUMP: But, you know, but nobody can make a case for that, Brad. Nobody. I mean, look, that's -- you'd have to be a child to think anything other than that. Just a child. I mean, you have -- you never --
(CROSSTALK)
MITCHELL: How many -- how many ballots, Mr. Secretary, are you saying that were processed in?
RAFFENSPERGER: We have (INAUDIBLE) certainly investigate that.
RYAN GERMANY, GENERAL COUNSEL FOR GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE: We had ours -- this is Ryan Germany. We had our law enforcement officers talk to everyone who was there after that event came to light. GBI was with them as well as FBI agents.
TRUMP: Well, there's no way they could -- then they're incompetent. They're either dishonest or incompetent.
MITCHELL: Well, what did they find?
TRUMP: OK. There's only two answers, dishonesty or incompetence. There's just no way. Look, there's no way. And on the other thing, I said, too, there's no way. I mean, there's no way that these things could have been -- you know, you have all these different people that voted but they don't live in Georgia anymore. What was that number, Cleta? That was a pretty good number, too.
MITCHELL: Well, the number who had registered out of state after they moved from Georgia, and so they had a date when they moved from Georgia. They registered to vote out of state and then -- it's like 4500. I don't have that right in front of me, but something like that.
TRUMP: And then they came back in and they voted.
MITCHELL: And voted, yes.
TRUMP: No. That was a large number, though. It was in the 20s. And, you know, the point is --
RAFFENSPERGER: We have been going through each of those as well. And those numbers that we got that Miss Mitchell was just saying, they're not accurate. Everyone we've been through are people that lived in Georgia, moved to a different state, but then moved back to Georgia legitimately. And in many cases --
TRUMP: Really? How many people do that?
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You mean they moved out and then they said, the hell with it, I'll move back in? You know, it doesn't sound like a very normal -- you mean they moved out and what, they missed it so much that they wanted to move back in? Yes, it's like --
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: It's crazy.
RAFFENSPERGER: Well, and then this is, they moved back in years ago. This was not like something just before the election. So there's something about that data that is just not accurate.
TRUMP: Well, I don't know. I mean, all I know is that it is certified. And they moved out of Georgia and they voted. It didn't say they moved back in, Cleta. Did it?
MITCHELL: No. But I mean, we're looking at the voter registration -- again, if you have additional records, we've been asking for that. But you haven't shared any of that with us. You just keep saying you've investigated.
TRUMP: But we got a lot of it. You don't need to be shared -- I mean, to be honest, they should share it. They should share it because you want to get to an honest election. I won this election by hundreds of thousands of votes. There's no way I lost Georgia. There's no way. We won by hundreds of thousands of votes. I'm just going by small numbers when you add them up, many times, the 11,000. But I won that state by hundreds of thousands of votes. Now do you think it's possible that they shredded ballots in Fulton
County? Because that's what the rumor is. And also that Dominion took out machines. That Dominion is really moving fast to get rid of their machinery. Do you know anything about that? Because that's illegal.
GERMANY: This is Ryan Germany.
[20:50:02]
No, Dominion has not moved any machinery out of Fulton County. We're having --
TRUMP: No, but, have they moved -- have they -- have they moved the inner parts of the machines and replaced them with other parts?
GERMANY: No.
TRUMP: Are you sure, Ryan?
GERMANY: I'm sure. I'm sure, Mr. President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: That is the president of the United States spinning conspiracy theories, propagating rumors, allegations that are baseless in an effort to overturn the results of an election he lost. Quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CABRERA: Forget political connections and campaign tactics, if it wasn't for his strong connection with rock music and the artists who created it, Jimmy Carter may never have become president. The all-new CNN Film "JIMMY CARTER, ROCK AND ROLL PRESIDENT," looks at the 39th president's close connection with music and musicians of all styles, how they helped him win the White House and define his presidency. Here's a preview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY CARTER, 39TH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When Willie Nelson wrote his autobiography, he confessed that he smoked pot in the White House one night when he was spending the night with me. And he says that his companion that shared the pot with him was one of the servants in the White House. That is not exactly true. It actually was one of my sons, which he didn't want to, you know, categorize as a pot smoker like him.
[20:55:02]
There were some people who didn't like my being deeply involved with Willie Nelson and Bob Dylan and disreputable, you know, rock and rollers. But I didn't care about that because I was doing what I really believed. And the response I think from the followers of those musicians was much more influential than a few people who thought that being associated with rock and roll and radical people was inappropriate for a president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Joining us now is Mary Wharton, the director and executive producer of "JIMMY CARTER, ROCK AND ROLL PRESIDENT."
Mary, it's good to have you here and finally something that gives us a chance to all breathe and have a little light in this program tonight. You know, at first glance, Jimmy Carter doesn't necessarily strike one as a rock and roll type of guy. How did you uncover this aspect of his personality and politics? And why did you want to tell this part of his story?
MARY WHARTON, DIRECTOR AND EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "JIMMY CARTER, ROCK AND ROLL PRESIDENT": Well, I have to give credit to my producer Chris Barrell who was the one who uncovered this story, although it had been hiding in plain sight in a lot of ways. But he founded and brought it to me. And we had been wanting to make a film together for a while. And when he told me about this story that I had not heard before, this aspect of Carter's history, I was just like, this is so cool, because it's a different way to look at somebody to sort of explore their life through their relationship to music.
And I have a background in doing music documentaries. It just seemed like such an interesting thing and an interesting challenge to me to take this music lens and focus it on someone who is not a musician. And it turned out to be so much bigger and better than I ever could have imagined.
CABRERA: So what are some of the ways you saw music influence Carter's politics?
WHARTON: Well, from the very early stages of his life, he talked about how, you know, music brought races together in the South, in the '60s with like soul and gospel and the connections between R & B and rock and roll. It all stems from the same sort of roots, musically. And people love the same kind of music no matter what color you are. And, you know, unfortunately, it's not as much like that anymore. But back then, it really was a great unifier.
And so that influenced him a lot. But also I think that he just saw how music brought people together. And as a really great diplomat, he was able to use the things that he loved to connect with other people from other countries by showing them what was great about America.
You know, when he invited the Chinese diplomat, the first Chinese ambassador to go to Nashville to meet Johnny Cash and all the big stars of the country world, it was a way of using music to connect with someone, and say, you know, we might be different, but music is something that we can both appreciate.
And he was just very astute in understanding that that was a great way to connect with someone. And once you really have a real connection with someone, how can you, you know, not at least try to talk to them in a real way and develop some kind of rapport? CABRERA: I love that. You know, Carter was not only personal friends
with a lot of these musicians, they campaigned for him, they fundraised for him. Why were they drawn to him?
WHARTON: Well, Carter was always a truth teller. One of the things that he said in many, many of his stump speeches when he was running for president was he used to go around saying, if I ever tell a lie to the American people, don't vote for me. And, you know, he was famous for telling the truth, which sounds really quaint right now. Doesn't it?
But you know, I think that that was something that musicians really connected with because one of the things -- you know, the great lines from Harlan Howard, who's one of the great country songwriters of all time, he always said that like all you need to write a song is three cords and the truth. And songwriters are always looking for the truth.
And so these songwriters that Jimmy Carter became friends with, they recognized in him that he was a truth teller. And you could depend -- he just had this authenticity that you could really believe what he said to you. And --
CABRERA: Well, we are -- we're going to see it in just a moment. I've got to jump in here because I don't want us to miss the start of this CNN Film.
WHARTON: No.
CABRERA: Mary Wharton, many thanks. That's going to do it for me tonight. Thank you so much for being with me on this journey this evening. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. Here is the CNN Film.
