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Trump Tells Georgia Officials to "Find" Votes to Sway Election; Trump's Actions Might Hurt Republicans in Georgia Runoffs; Former Defense Secretaries: The Election is Over; U.K. Begins Oxford/AstraZeneca Vaccine Rollout. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired January 04, 2021 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

ROBYN CURNOW, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, welcome to our viewers joining us here in the United States and all around the world. You're watching CNN. I'm Robyn Curnow.

So just ahead. You heard Donald Trump's claims about the election being stolen but never like this. Hear the jaw-dropping phone call the U.S. president made to officials here in Georgia and what he was seeking.

We'll also look at the impact on Georgia's crucial elections, that will decide who controls the Senate.

And the U.S. vaccine rollout is criticized for being too slow. What experts say must be done to speed it up.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CURNOW: Audio of an astonishing conversation between the U.S. President Donald Trump and Georgia state officials is sending shock waves across U.S. politics. In a phone call, Mr. Trump pushes Georgia's Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to, quote, find votes that would overturn Joe Biden's election victory. I want to you listen to this exchange with Raffensperger's General Counsel, Ryan Germany.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (via phone): All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state, and flipping the state is a great testament to our country. Because you know, there's just -- it's' a testament that they could admit to a mistake, or whatever you want to call it, if it was a mistake, I don't know.

A lot of people think it was t wasn't a mistake. It was much more criminal than that. But it's a big problem in Georgia and it's not a problem that's going away, I mean, you know, it's not a problem that's going away, and we got to --

RYAN GERMANY, GENERAL COUNSEL TO GEORGIA'S SECRETARY OF STATE (via phone): Ryan Germany. We're looking into every one of those things that you mentioned and our investigators --

TRUMP: Good. But if you find it, you've got to say it, Ryan. GERMANY: Let me tell you what we are seeing.

TRUMP: Go ahead.

GERMANY: What we're seeing is not at all what you're describing. These are investigators from our office, these are investigators from GBI, and they're looking, and they're good. And that's not what they're seeing. And we'll keep looking. We'll keep looking at all these things.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CURNOW: Well, that wasn't the only argument in the call. In this next clip, Mr. Trump repeats false accusations and conspiracy theories that have been disproven and he dismisses Raffensperger and Germany as they explain the facts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: Do you think it's possible that they shredded ballots in Fulton County? Because that's what the rumor is. And also that Dominion took out machines. That Dominion is really moving fast to get rid of their machinery.

Do you know anything about that? Because that's illegal?

GERMANY: This is Ryan Germany. No, Dominion has not moved any machinery out of Fulton County. We're having --

TRUMP: But have it they moved -- have they moved the inner parts of the machines, and replaced them with other parts?

GERMANY: No.

TRUMP: Are you sure? Ryan?

GERMANY: I'm sure. I'm sure, Mr. President.

TRUMP: What about, what about the ballots. The shredding of the ballots. Have they been shredding ballots?

GERMANY: The only investigation that we have into that -- they have not been shredding any ballots. There was an issue in Cobb County where they were doing normal, you know, office shredding, getting rid of old stuff, and we investigated that. But this is stuff from, you know, past elections.

TRUMP: No, I don't know.

GERMANY: -- and that's what it --

TRUMP: It doesn't pass the smell test though because we hear they're shredding thousands and thousands of ballots, and now what they're saying, oh, we're just cleaning up the office, you know. I don't think that plays.

BRAD RAFFENSPERGER, GEORGIA'S SECRETARY OF STATE (via phone): Mr. President, the problem you have with social media, they -- people can say anything.

TRUMP: No, this isn't social media. This is Trump media. It's not social media. It's really not. It's not social media. I don't care about social media. I couldn't care less. Social media is Big Tech. Big Tech is on your side, you know. I don't even know why you have a side because you should want to have an accurate election. And you're a Republican.

RAFFENSPERGER: We believe that we do have an accurate election.

[04:05:00]

TRUMP: No, no you don't. No, no you don't. You don't have. Not even close. You got -- you're off by hundreds of thousands of votes. And just on the small numbers, you're off on these numbers, and these numbers can't be just -- well, why won't? -- OK. So you sent us into Cobb County for signature verification, right? You sent us into Cobb County, which we didn't want to go into. And you said it would be open to the public and we can have our -- so we had our experts there, they weren't allowed into the room. But we didn't want Cobb County. We wanted Fulton County. And you wouldn't give it to us.

Now, why aren't we doing signature -- and why can't it be open to the public and why can't we have professionals do it instead of rank amateurs that will never find anything and don't want to find anything? They don't want to find -- you know they don't want to find anything. Someday you'll tell me the reason why because I don't understand your reasoning. But someday you'll tell me the reason why. But why don't you want to find What?

GERMANY: So you want to recheck Cobb County. You took Cobb County.

TRUMP: Why don't you want to find? -- what?

GERMANY: Sorry, go ahead.

TRUMP: Yes, why -- why -- OK, so why did you do Cobb County? We didn't even request -- we requested Fulton County, not Cobb County.

Go ahead, please. Go ahead.

GERMANY: We chose Cobb County because that was the only county where there's been any evidence submitted that the signature verification was not properly done.

TRUMP: No, but I told you. We're not, we're not saying that. We are -- we're the aggrieved party. Fulton County -- look, Stacey, in my opinion, Stacey is as dishonest as she come. She has outplayed you at every heart -- at everything. She got you to sign a totally unconstitutional agreement which is a disastrous agreement. You can't check signatures. You can't do -- I can't imagine you're allowed to do harvesting I guess in that agreement, that agreement is a disaster for this country. But she got you somehow so sign that thing, and she is a -- she's outsmarted you at every step and I hate to imagine what's going to happen on Monday or Tuesday, but it's very scary to people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CURNOW: So Raffensperger's office recorded that call, a source says, advisers were told not to release the tape unless Mr. Trump attacked him or disrespected what happened. Well on Sunday morning the president did just that, prompting this response from Raffensperger.

Respectfully, President Trump, what you're saying is not true. The truth will come out.

And "The Washington Post" reported the phone call a few hours later. The phone call is just the latest attempt by the president to overturn the results of the election that took place nearly nine years ago. And it comes just before Georgia's pivotal Senate runoff election on Tuesday. Here's John Harwood with more on all of that -- John.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Just a little over two weeks left in Donald Trump's presidency, the bombshells just keep dropping.

On Sunday, it was "The Washington Post" revelation on the audiotape of a phone call in which President Trump pressures the Republican secretary of state of Georgia to find extra votes to overturn Joe Biden's victory there. Never mind that the Electoral College tally has been certified in all 50 states, never mind that Joe Biden does not need Georgia 16 electoral votes to win, he's got 306 which is well over the 270 you need.

Never mind there is no evidence of widespread fraud or irregularity in Georgia voting or vote counting. The president was repeating fantasies about shredded ballots and altered voting machines. Brad Raffensperger resisted, even though President Trump appeal to him to act as a fellow Republican.

Now the White House is not commenting on this tape, hard to know what they would say considering that the president is on the tape, as well as White House chief of staff Mark Meadows. But the Biden campaign was quick to say the tape affirms President Trump's assault on democracy since the election. Vice President-elect Kamala Harris said that this was a bold face abuse of power.

The irony is, that this could end up strengthening Joe Biden's presidency if it tilts it all the very close races for two Georgia Senate seats to take place on Tuesday. If Democrats win both, Democrats will control the Senate and that would give Joe Biden a lot freer hand in terms of legislation.

John Harwood, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE) CNN's Kyung Lah is on the campaign trail in Georgia gauging more reaction to the president's call with Brad Raffensperger. She has a look at how this could impact Tuesday' runoff -- Kyung.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Democrats are seizing on that call between President Trump and Georgia secretary of state. Calling it undemocratic.

[04:10:00]

We heard from Vice President-elect Kamala Harris who is here in Savannah stumping for the two Democratic challengers, hoping to flip those two Senate seats on Tuesday.

KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT: Have you all heard about that recorded conversation?

CROWD: (CARS HONKING)

HARRIS: Well, it was yes, certainly the voice of desperation. Most certainly that. And it was a bald, bald face abuse of power by the President of the United States.

JON OSSOFF, U.S. SENATE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: The President of the United States calls up Georgia's election officials and tries to intimidate them. To change the result of the election. To disenfranchise Georgia voters. To disenfranchise black voters in Georgia who delivered the state for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

(APPLAUSE AND CARS HONKING)

OSSOFF: That is a direct attack on our democracy, and if David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler had one piece of steel in their spines, one shred of integrity, they would be out here defending Georgia voters from that kind of assault.

LAH (on camera): It's hard to miss what this image means, if Raphael Warnock and John Ossoff flip those two Senate seats, Kamala Harris becomes a tie breaker, Democrats then control the Senate. That is what is at stake on Tuesday.

We did reach out to Senators Loeffler and Perdue for comment on the call, neither of them returned our calls.

Kyung Lah, CNN, Savannah, Georgia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CURNOW: I want to discuss this further with Lesley Vinjamuri in London. She's the head of the U.S. and the Americas Programme at Chatham House. Lesley, hi, good to see you.

LESLEY VINJAMURI, HEAD OF U.S. AND THE AMERICAS PROGRAMME, CHATHAM HOUSE: Thank you, Robyn. CURNOW: So what we're here is The U.S. president asking electoral

officials to find votes. What was your reaction listening to that?

VINJAMURI: Well, extraordinary, deeply upsetting. I think we've become accustomed to seeing the president of the United States of America chipping away at democratic norms, but I think this takes it to another level. After an election that's been very legitimately conducted but fraught with allegations of illegitimacy by the president and those surrounding him and, in the run, up to that January 6 vote.

I think it's deeply distressing and clearly an abuse of power. And something that were it not for an election that already voted the president out of power I think we would certainly see cause for an investigation, and for a potential impeachment on the basis of this.

CURNOW: Yes, I mean, you heard Kamala Harris say this was an abuse of power. Other people said this is authoritarian instincts laid bare. It's the edges of extortion. This is about stealing an election. Those are just some of the comments I've picked up from folks today and some of them have been Republican.

What are the implications of this? Is it just political potentially, or could there be some legal questions that the president will have to deal with or at least answer to?

VINJAMURI: Yes, I mean I think, you know, the time is of course very significant. The fact that again, we've had an election. On January 6th, will probably be quite tumultuous but we should see that confirmation and an inauguration in just a couple of weeks. People want to move on.

I think the really deep concern now is that some people, Robyn, will listen to that call and because America is very divided, some people will believe what the president is saying. It makes it very difficult to bring the country back together, to get the legitimacy that's really needed by the Biden administration to govern. A lot of people -- a majority of Americans see this as a legitimate election but far fewer than we would normally expect, so it's very deeply disturbing simply for the norms and for the American electorate.

CURNOW: Does this strengthen the Democrats in their race for these Senate runoff seats? I mean, will voters listen to that here in Georgia and will they be coming out in greater numbers? Will this create momentum against Republicans, do you think, or do you think voters have got far beyond that, they've made their minds up already?

VINJAMURI: Well I think some voters have clearly made up their minds already and what it will do, I think for those voters, is drive turnout. This is becoming every single hour a very intense election and I think that it will drive people to the polls, I would expect a greater turnout on election day than we might have seen before those tapes.

[04:15:00] There will be voters I think that, you know, might have just been deep to their core Republicans who might not prefer the current politics, but would have voted Republican that might listen to these tapes and say we're in trouble. We need to be very careful, and perhaps you know, those who are willing to swing, might swing away from the Republican Party on the basis of these votes. But I think many people will remain where they were and it's more likely to drive turnout and the intensity around tomorrow's elections in Georgia.

CURNOW: There's also talk about these defense secretaries, the ten living defense secretaries, they've written an op-ed together in "The Washington Post" and they've called on President Trump and his allies and people who support him to accept Mr. Biden's victory. This came out before the audio was broadcast.

And they talk in this op-ed about the necessity for a smooth transition, and they also interestingly warn against the military getting involved in Mr. Trump's efforts to overturn the election. Is that a pretty blatant subtext that they are concerned that the president might actually try to use the military.

VINJAMURI: Well clearly, they are concerned, Robyn. This is highly unusual. We use the word "unprecedented" a lot, but this is unprecedented to have ten living secretaries of defense make such a public statement of this kind. They're clearly deeply concerned. They're looking back to what happened over the summer in Lafayette Square, and the desire of the president to use the military on the streets of America, at a time when even his then sitting secretary of defense said it was entirely inappropriate and unnecessary.

They're looking back. They're looking forward. They're speaking to those individuals in the Pentagon, they're saying you are accountable. You have and an oath to uphold the constitution. The time for challenging the election has been passed. It is legitimate. We must secure a peaceful transition. This is a very important statement. It is across the board on all sides support, so one cannot underestimate the significance of that.

CURNOW: Thank you very much for joining us. It's early Monday morning there in the U.K. at Chatham House. Leslie Vinjamuri, we really appreciate you sharing your expertise with us. Thank you.

VINJAMURI: Thank you.

CURNOW: OK, we will of course have much more on that stunning phone call coming up in a few moments' time.

But also here on CNN, President Trump falsely claims America's staggering coronavirus death toll is overstated. We'll tell you how Dr. Anthony Fauci responded. That's also next.

[04:20:21]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CURNOW: Welcome back. I'm Robyn Curnow. It is 21 minutes past the hour.

So the U.S. is racing to get ahead of the coronavirus pandemic, and the halls of overburdened hospitals and a push to pick up the pace of vaccinations across the country, but it is not having much success on either front. The number -- take a look at this -- the number of U.S. COVID patients hit a record high on Sunday. The Coronavirus Tracking Project reports more than 125,000 people are in hospital with the virus right now. This as the pace of vaccinations lags behind, just over 4 million doses have been administered across the country, far below the Trump administration's targets.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MONCEF SLAOUI, CHIEF SCIENTIFIC ADVISER, OPERATION WARP SPEED: 20 million doses of vaccines as we had promised would be made available to the American people to be immunized, have been made available, 17.5 million have been shipped.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right, but only a third of them have actually been used. So that's where the rubber meets the road.

SLAOUI: Yes, absolutely. We need to improve.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CURNOW: Meanwhile, President Trump took to Twitter on Sunday. He falsely claimed that the U.S. death toll from coronavirus was overstated. Dr. Anthony Fauci had this to reply.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The deaths are real deaths. I mean, all you need to do is to go out into the trenches, go to the hospitals, see what the health care workers are dealing with. They are under very stressed situations. In many areas of the country the hospital beds are stretched. People are running out of beds, running out of trained personnel who are exhausted right now. That's real. That's not fake. That's real.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CURNOW: And then in the U.K. an 82-year-old British man has become the first person to receive the recently approved Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine. You're looking at pictures here. It was just over an hour ago. It's all part of the latest vaccine roll out in the U.K. It puts another weapon in the arsenal of health care workers facing this very serious spike in COVID cases.

Salma Abdulaziz joins me now from London with the latest. Salma, I understand you're at the Royal Free Hospital where many people are going to be expected to get this vaccine, and has that started yet where you are?

SALMA ABDULAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: We don't know yet if it's started. But we know that the first vaccinations should have begun in Oxford. So that Brian Pinkard that 82-year-old man that you spoke of got his vaccine, got his injection just a short time ago. We expect them to start behind me here at Royal Free Hospital.

Now Brian Pinkard says he is so excited to get this vaccine, because it means he can potentially celebrate his 48th wedding anniversary with his wife Shirley. A very heartwarming moment.

But the health secretary has said is a pivotal moment in this country's fight against coronavirus and there's a lot of national pride, of course, around this vaccine, because it was developed right here at Oxford University in the U.K. And there's a lot of advantages to it. It's cheap, but critically it doesn't need to be stored at extra cold temperatures. It can be held in a normal fridge. Which mean it can reach more people. It's logistically easier to disseminate and it couldn't come soon enough, Robyn.

This country is absolutely plagued right now by a new variant of COVID-19 that spreads more easily. That is more transmissible. You have now more patients in hospitals with coronavirus than at any point before. Record-breaking number of infections rates across the country recorded last week. It is absolutely vital to get this vaccine in people's arms.

But there's been some criticism of the vaccination program here with some calling it the wild west of vaccine programs. There's been a lot of gold steps taken. The U.K. was the first country to approve the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine and start using it.

[04:25:00]

Of course, the first country to use this Oxford University and AstraZeneca vaccine as well.

And there's been some controversial policies that have divided the medical community. For example, this vaccine and all the others from now on and everybody gets a dose will wait up to three months before they get the second dose. Although, of course, during trials it was about three to four weeks before you got that second dose.

So why do this? Well, if you ask the British government, they're going to tell you, look, we need to do everything we can to contain this variant, to stop the spread of this disease. Hospitals are simply at breaking points so methods like this, delaying the second injection, delaying the second dose of the vaccine means that you can spread this thin resource over a greater number of people, potentially vaccinate twice as many people and keep less people from going into these hospitals, when they are simply teetering on the edge -- Robyn.

CURNOW: OK, thanks for that update there, Salma Abdulaziz.

So up next here at CNN. Outrage from Democrats and Republicans alike after President Trump's stunning efforts all caught on tape to pressure a Georgia state official to flip the election results in his favor. Hear more of those remarks from the president, that's also next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CURNOW: Great to have you along. Welcome back to CNN. It's 29 minutes past the hour. I'm Robyn Curnow coming to you live from CNN studios here in Atlanta and definitely more on our top story this hour.

President Trump pressuring a state official to overturn Joe Biden's election victory here in Georgia. It's a shocking hour-long phone call. The president is heard strongarming Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to, quote, find more votes to help him win. The president and his chief of staff Mark Meadows also tried to highlight debunked claims of election fraud during the call.