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Police Officer Die After Pro-Trump Riot at U.S. Capitol; Trump Condemns Heinous Attack on U.S. Capitol; GOP Splinters on Trump Loyalty After Capitol Siege; Democrats Urge Pence to Remove Trump VIA 25th Amendment; House Democrats Considering Second Impeachment; Contrast in Police Response to Capitol Riot and Black Lives Matter Protests. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired January 08, 2021 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us here in the United States and all around the world. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM, I'm Michael Holmes, appreciate your company.

Coming up here on the program. Democrats calling for impeachment, Republicans distancing themselves, and criminal charges coming after the U.S. Capitol attack that has claimed another life, a police officer who died from his injuries.

Donald Trump apparently feeling the pressure finally promising an orderly transition of power. A lot of people say too little, too late.

Plus, how different the policing of the pro-Trump riot looked from the Black Lives Matter demonstrations. What's behind this epic security failure.

A Capitol Hill police officer has become the fifth person to die as a result of Wednesday's deadly pro-Trump riot at the U.S. Capitol. Police say officer Brian Sicknick died from injuries he received while, quote, physically engaging with protesters.

A woman rioter was also fatally shot by police after U.S. President Donald Trump told his supporters to march to the Capitol and, quote, show strength. Three other people died of medical conditions. On Thursday, the president belatedly condemning the violence.

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[04:05:00]

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: America is and must always be a nation of law and order. The demonstrators who infiltrated the Capitol have defiled the seat of American democracy. To those who engaged in the acts of violence and destruction, you do not represent our country. We have just been through an intense election and emotions are high, but now tempers must be cooled, and calm restored. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Numerous administration officials have now resigned in protest including education secretary Betsy DeVos, and transportation secretary Elaine Chao. In her resignation letter, DeVos at least partly blaming the president for Wednesday's deadly violence writing this, quote --

There is no mistaking the impact your rhetoric had on the situation, and it is the inflection point for me.

Donald Trump will only be president for 12 more days, but many U.S. officials and lawmakers are so upset and angry about the deadly breach of the Capitol on Wednesday that they're questioning whether President Trump should be removed from office before January 20. For that, here's Kaitlan Collins.

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KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: This was the first time that we've seen the president come out on camera and say that there is going to be a peaceful transition of power when Joe Biden takes office. Even if he did not mention Joe Biden by name, this is the first time we've seen this kind of language from the president. It's basically a non-concession, concession speech, probably as good as we're going to get from Donald Trump.

But of course comes after he spent the day listening to these calls coming from Capitol Hill and not just from Democrats for his removal from office in these waning days of his administration, led by house Speaker Nancy Pelosi who is calling on the Vice President Mike Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment, calling on the cabinet, signaling out some of the cabinet secretaries by name. But we should note that we have spoken to vice president's office. They have not responded to what the vice president plans to do.

But an administration official did say he has not discussed invoking the 25th Amendment with any of the cabinet members. However, those cabinet members are dwindling. We are now seeing at least two of them resign in the wake of president's response to that, and that is Elaine Chao, the transportation secretary who of course is also married to the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. But also the education secretary, Betsy DeVos who submitted her resignation letter late last night and was talking about the accomplishments of the Trump administration but did say at one point, this is what we should be talking about but quote --

There is no mistaking the impact your rhetoric had on the situation and it is the infection point for me.

Saying that was the final straw for her, and that is what is leading her to leave her job with just two weeks left in the Trump administration, and of course the big question right now is whether or not there are going to be more of them.

Kaitlan Collins, CNN, the White House. (END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Now for many Democrats, the president's condemnation of Wednesday's violence was too little too late. One Senator doubting he was even sincere. Have a listen.

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SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D-HI): It was very clear that he was reading off a teleprompter under extreme, extreme pressure, and once the teleprompter is gone and the pressure is off, I think he'll revert to his usual self of spewing lies and even in the teleprompter speech he lied about the National Guard being deployed.

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): If the 25th Amendment is to mean anything, if it was ever important, it is exactly for this kind of moment for which it was written when an unhinged president has demonstrably abandoned his post.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): When you're already talking about the 25th Amendment, when you were talking about impeachment, when you're seeing resignations from longtime associates of Donald Trump, he is catching on that he is becoming increasingly isolated, people are not supporting him, and he's going to have to be on good behavior. I hope that is the case.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Meanwhile, many leaders in the Republican Party are distancing themselves from the president, seeing Wednesday's events as a final straw. On Thursday, representative Adam Kinzinger became the first Republican member of Congress to call for the president's removal from office.

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REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): The president cost us. The president is unfit, and the president is unwell. And the president must now relinquish control of the executive branch voluntarily or involuntarily.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Others in the party are still pushing the president's baseless claims of election fraud, however. One of the most prominent of those is Texas Senator Ted Cruz. Here's what he told the Houston television station KTRK.

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[04:10:00]

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): The president's language and rhetoric often goes too far. I think yesterday in particular the president's language and rhetoric crossed a line, and it was reckless. I disagree with it. And I have disagreed with the president's language and rhetoric for the last four years, and I've said so many, many times.

If you look to what I have said you will not find me using the same language or rhetoric. What I have said is that serious claims of illegality need to be considered, they need to be adjudicated, they need to be considered fairly based on the facts and based on the evidence that's very different than the things the president is saying.

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HOLMES: CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill with more on the growing pressure on lawmakers to force Trump from office before his term ends in just twelve days.

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MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Extraordinary moves under discussion on Capitol Hill to try to make Donald Trump the first president in American history who could get impeached twice. Now, the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is seriously considering bringing an impeachment vote to the floor quickly. Much quicker than the 2019 impeachment of Donald Trump that took several months to play out. That's how typically it happens.

But now they're looking at bypassing the committees all together, bringing a quick vote to the floor and getting it done in just a matter of days. Now there's still some time that needs to play out. They have not made any final decisions if that's the way they're going to proceed. It's still uncertain what Joe Biden wants to do. And on top of that, the first thing the Democrats want is for Vice President Mike Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment along with the cabinet to essentially use the 25th Amendment under the constitution, this extraordinary power to push the president out of office.

Now Democrat after Democrat was calling on Pence to move ahead with the 25th Amendment in the aftermath of the president inciting those deadly riots in the Capitol earlier this week. There's no indication that that is the route that Pence is going to go, and so if he does not do that, then the Democrats say well then, they may impeach President Trump.

There's one problem, there's 12 days left in Donald Trump's presidency, so even if the Democrats have a quick vote, presumably, next week, if they were to do that, getting an impeachment trial done in the United States Senate which is still controlled by Republicans up until January 20th, then that is not going to happen quickly if the Republicans don't want to do that.

And they still need 2/3 majority in the United States Senate to remove the president from office, 67 votes in the chamber currently controlled with 52 Republicans at the moment with David Perdue of Georgia no longer a United States Senator. So it would be a very difficult road to go down to try to get the president removed from office unless there is significant bipartisan support. At the moment they're not there yet. Republicans are angry at Donald Trump. They are not there yet about pushing him out of office. (END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Manu Raju there.

Now, earlier I asked CNN political analyst Ron Brownstein if he thinks Donald Trump would actually be removed from office?

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RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I don't think the 25th Amendment will be invoked. I don't think Republicans in the Senate will convict and remove him from office, but I do think it is possible that Democrats will impeach him. Again, if this is not impeachable behavior, what is?

HOLMES: Where does this -- you and I have talked a lot about the Republican Party and Trump, where does all of this leave the Republican Party? What happened Wednesday but really the last four years, what damage has been done by centering the party around one man and of course Trumpism doesn't end magically January 20?

BROWNSTEIN: Right. It's complicated because Trump has strengthened the Republican hold on nonurban, noncollege and evangelical white America. He is enormously popular outside of the major metro areas. And, you know, Republicans, he held, you know, in the states that he won again in 2020 they beat back Democratic challenges in the Senate that were funded at historically unprecedented levels in places like Iowa and North Carolina and South Carolina and so on.

But the price of that was very visible again on display in Georgia this week which is that he has exiled the Republican Party from the fast growing and diverse metro areas, now really everywhere in the country.

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HOLMES (on camera): Ron Brownstein speaking to me earlier.

Now rioters at the U.S. Capitol were met with little force. Compare this to what protesters for racial justice were met with several months ago. Why many are calling it a double standard. We'll discuss after the break.

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HOLMES: Now we've only just begun to see the fallout from the riot on Capitol Hill Wednesday, but many people are already asking how the situation could have gotten so out of control. Here's Brian Todd with that.

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BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A beleaguered officer in the capital falls back in the face of a crowd of intruders, U.S. Capitol Police now under scrutiny for being undermanned and overrun.

ANDREW MCCABE, FORMER FBI ACTING DIRECTOR: That was a massive failure, and we need to get to the bottom of that how that happened.

TODD (voice-over): Lawmakers grateful to officers who protected them.

REP. GRACE MENG (D-NY): People were fearing for their lives, making calls to their families to say goodbye.

TODD (voice-over): But also demanding answers.

REP. KAREN BASS (D-CA): Why were they overwhelmed? Everyone knew this was going to happen. Why weren't they tracking social media? Why didn't erect the barriers around the Capitol that are present now?

TODD (voice-over): One problem, not calling up enough personnel says a former D.C. police chief.

CHARLES RAMSEY, FORMER WASHINGTON, DC POLICE CHIEF: They can bring in the Metropolitan Police. They can bring in police agencies from Maryland and Virginia, to help them. Obviously, the National Guard.

[04:20:00]

TODD (voice-over): The city and the National Guard say they sent help as soon as possible, and back-up eventually arrived, but sporadically and in small numbers at first.

In June, by contrast, federal guards were out in force well ahead of Black Lives Matter protests.

Another apparent mistake, preparing for a terrorist attack instead of a violent mob.

TERRENCE GAINER, FORMER CHIEF, U.S. CAPITOL POLICE: Well, we probably need is less long guns and we need a lot more riot control batons that would've helped control that mob.

TODD (voice-over): Also, an issue, not anticipating how many protesters would come.

RAMSEY: These right-wing groups that made it very clear, that they were going to be there. I mean, everything was in place, how could you be possibly caught off guard?

TODD (voice-over): Also, under scrutiny how the rioters were treated. Some officers criticized, for giving way to easily. Or one even apparently taking a selfie with the, mob a far cry from how Black Lives Matter protesters were dealt with by federal forces in June, when they were violently cleared out of the park in front of the White House.

BASS: I think it's just an example of the double standard. You know obviously, Black Lives Matter protesters were perceived as very threatening and for some reason, these weren't.

TODD (voice-over): D.C.'s mayor says the city's police focused on their responsibilities.

MAYOR MURIEL BOWSER (D) DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: I needed MPD to focus on law enforcement activities and being able to respond to any hotspots.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, help me God.

TODD (voice-over): Now with Joe Biden's inauguration, just two weeks away, 6,200 National Guard are arriving in D.C. And tall fencing is going up around the Capitol, along with pledges of tighter security.

TODD: Before word came of his resignation, Capitol Hill Police Chief Steven Sund defended the actions of his department, saying his officers responded valiantly to thousands of intruders at the Capitol. He said they were actively attacked with metal pipes, chemical irritants and other weapons. Still, Sund said, there will be a through review of everything that occurred.

Brian Todd, CNN Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Now earlier, CNN talked to the president of the NAACP, Derek Johnson, the civil rights leader was asked about the contrast between how police treated Black Lives Matter protesters last year and how they treated the mob attacking the Capitol on Wednesday. Here's what he said about the message that sends to Americans.

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DERRICK JOHNSON, PRESIDENT AND CEO, NAACP: They are tone deaf to the threat that domestic terrorists present to this nation, particularly those that are members of the Proud Boys and other white supremacist groups. At the NAACP we have been ringing this bell for a while now. In fact this past summer, along with ADL and Color of Change, we launched a campaign to get Facebook to begin to address white supremacist groups and domestic terrorists.

This president has created the space where people feal more emboldened. He started the administration with Charlottesville, Virginia, and now in the final days, he's ending with the inciting treasonous acts by individuals who are domestic terrorists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Sophia Nelson is a senior columnist at "The Daily Beast" and former House Republican investigative council. She's also the author of "E Pluribus One," reclaiming our founders vision for a united America. Sophia it's great to have you on. We heard a lot of people over the last 24, 36 hours saying this is not what America is. But do you think that's correct, sadly, it actually is part of America, isn't it?

SOPHIA NELSON, COLUMNIST, THE DAILY BEAST: Absolutely, I mean, I think that, you know, one of the old sayings is the chickens have come home to roost, and yesterday in the Capitol of the United States of America, that happened. Some of the darkest impulses that we have had in our past history around mob violence, around riot, this was not protests, this was not dissent, this was anger and mob violence, and it was sedition. And we need to call it what it was and what it is so that we can heal from it and move forward.

HOLMES: President-elect Joe Biden echoed what I think a lot of people think earlier on Thursday. Let's just play that for people.

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BIDEN: No one can tell me if it had been a group of Black Lives Matter protesting yesterday, they wouldn't have been -- they would have been treated very, very differently than the mob of thugs that stormed the Capitol. We all know that's true, and it is unacceptable. Totally unacceptable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Yes, and you know, it was pretty easy for protesters, let's face it, to get into the building, get into the chambers, and then appallingly in most places just stroll out. Many of them laughing and smiling. How different do you think that the response would have been if this had been Black Lives Matters protesters or Muslim protesters for that matter and not Donald Trump supporters.

[04:25:00]

NELSON: I think we know the answer to that question when you go back to this past summer, with the protester protesters around the death, the murder of George Floyd. And you saw that even when people wanted to peaceably assemble at the Lincoln Memorial like they did with the march on Washington in 1963, and the million man march, and all those marches. They had the National Guard out, and it looked like some type of military coup was about to happen. And the same thing happened when they marched in front of the White House.

As you know, the president called out military units, tear gas was fired, rubber bullets were fired, and these people were doing nothing like what we saw yesterday. I worked in the Capitol for many of my life as a younger woman and as an attorney and a committee counsel and I never in my life thought I'd see something like what we all witnessed yesterday.

HOLMES: And in fact, you've spoken about the differences in life experiences in America. You wrote on theGrio web site, which people can go and read there, I just want to read for people, you said this quote --

The reality is that these Trump supporters who engaged in insurrection and sedition on Wednesday were not being oppressed. They lost an election. In our American system of governance, somebody wins, and somebody loses. They don't know what oppression looks like.

Explain that some more.

NELSON: Well, it's what we were just talking about. If you go back to the reason why the black NFL players were kneeling, for example, they were kneeling in protest for police violence of killing black men, right. And then you go to Black Lives Matter, that movement grew out of the Michael Brown situation, and other deaths and murders of black men who were unarmed, and the people that were protesting there, were doing so for their lives.

Breonna Taylor, right, in Louisiana -- in Louisville, rather, I'm sorry -- she was, you know, shot while in her bed watching TV with a no knock warrant. And so there's a difference between protesting because my life is in danger or I don't feel that you're treating me justly versus I'm protesting because I think my candidate lost an election that he really didn't lose. Those are two very different reasons to protest, and again, that was not protests, it was riot, and it was domestic terrorism.

HOLMES: Great to get your perspective. We really appreciate it. Sophia Nelson, thanks so much.

NELSON: Thank you so much.

HOLMES: Much more to come here on CNN, including the reaction of international leaders to those shocking scenes Wednesday on Capitol Hill. Savor this. We'll be right back.

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