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Source: Pence Has Not Ruled Out 25th Amendment; Article Of Impeachment Could Be Introduced Tomorrow; Procession For Fallen Officer Brian Sicknick Held Today In D.C.; Dems Could Delay Sending Article Of Impeachment To Senate; U.S. Vaccination Effort Remains Woefully Behind Schedule; Financial Company, Stripe, Stops Processing Trump Campaign Donations. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired January 10, 2021 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:03]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: In this video, you can see this mob dragging a police officer down the stairs and then they brutally began to beat him. And we've slowed it down. We put the spot shadow on the officers that you can better see what's going on. This officer gets stomped on. He's even hit with a pole, carrying an American flag on it.

And these rioters seem to use anything they have, a broom, a crutch, even a Trump 2020 flag fastened to a pole. And they throw this stuff at police who are trying to maintain a barricade at the tunnel entrance to the Capitol building.

This is just more evidence of how dangerous this situation was and how much worse this attack was than we first knew on Wednesday as it was going on. Five people died in this riot, including Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick. He died on Thursday due to injuries sustained while on duty.

Earlier today, a procession was held in the nation's Capitol in his honor. And now three days after his death and after mounting criticism, the White House finally lowered its flag to half-staff. The New York Times is reporting that President Trump hasn't even called Officer Sicknick's family. Vice President Pence did. We also know President-elect Joe Biden spoke with the brother of Officer Sicknick.

With us now is CNN's Jeremy Diamond at the White House and CNN's Ryan Nobles on Capitol Hill.

Jeremy, to you first. The flag at the White House is now lowered to half-staff. What is the White House saying about that?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Ana. The flag was lowered to half-staff today around 2:00 P.M. It came two days after House Speaker Nancy Pelosi ordered the flags at the Capitol to be lowered at the half-staff. In a White House in a statement on this, it does not explain why it took so long for the White House to take this step.

But here is a statement from the president on lowering the flag at the White House. As a sign of respect for the service and sacrifice of United States Capitol police officers Brian d. Sicknick and Howard Liebengood, and all Capitol police officers and law enforcement across this great nation, I hereby order that the flag of the United States shall be flown at half-staff at the White House and upon all public buildings and grounds.

Now, this is a pattern we have seen from President Trump in which he has delayed the lowering of flags during several other incidents, which he may not view as politically favorable to him. After Senator John McCain died, the president waited two days after much criticism to lower the flag to half-staff. And after the attack that took place at the Capitol, Gazette Newspaper in Annapolis, the White House took five days to lower the flag to half-staff, but, ultimately, the president under weathering criticism, relenting and taking this action.

We should also note that while Vice President Mike Pence did call Officer Sicknick's family, we have no indication as of yet that President Trump has done the same. In fact, this statement on lowering the flag is the only statement that we have seen from the president directly referencing Officer Sicknick's death.

CABRERA: And, Jeremy, some members of Congress are now calling for the 25th Amendment to be invoked to remove President Trump. Are there discussions within the White House about that?

DIAMOND: Well, look, here is what we're learning is that Vice President Mike Pence, who would have to sign on in addition to a majority of the members of the president's cabinet in order to strip the president of his powers through the 25th Amendment, that the vice president is not taking this option off the table. And that, in and of itself, is remarkable when you think of the relationship between President Trump and Vice President Mike Pence over these last four years and the year that they campaigned together for the presidency in 2016.

Vice President Pence has been unfailingly loyal to President Trump. And yet now their relationship has fallen apart, it seems, to the point that normally you would expect the vice president to put out a statement perhaps and say, no, there is no chance that I will be invoking this. He is not doing that, and that is notable in and of itself.

Now, we have been told separately that it's unlikely that the vice president would invoke the 25th Amendment. But as we know, cabinet members have already held some informal discussions about this, and the vice president not taking this off the table, wanting to preserve it as an option should President Trump's behavior grow more erratic and unstable.

CABRERA: Ryan, Congress is taking action. We understand they're moving toward a second impeachment of President Trump. Where does the process stand right now?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Ana. There's no doubt there is a will here on Capitol Hill to hold the president accountable for his role in the riots here last week. The question is what form and fashion does that all come together, and how does it work with the backdrop of the timing of the president leaving office in just a few days to begin with.

Now, it seems pretty clear that Democrats are going to move ahead with articles of impeachment sometime this week. The question is what happens after those articles of impeachment pass. And it seems pretty clear that there will be enough Democrats and perhaps even some Republicans that join in this effort to, of course, get these articles of impeachment passed.

The problem is that then needs to go to the United States Senate, which is still in the control of Republicans and requires a two-thirds majority in order to convict the president and remove him from office.

[18:05:05]

And there doesn't appear to be enough support for that to take place quickly enough to remove the president from office before his term comes to an end.

That being said, Ana, what we are seeing now that is so different than what we've seen throughout the course of the president's administration is that there are a number of Capitol Hill Republicans that are becoming vocally critical of the way the president handled this situation. Take, for instance, Senator Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania, listen to what he told Jake Tapper this morning on State of the Union.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Republican Colleague Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska says President Trump should resign. She said, quote, he's caused enough damage. Do you agree?

SEN. PAT TOOMEY (R-PA): Yes, I do. I think at this point with just a few days left, it's the best path forward, the best way to get this person in the rearview mirror.

I think there's also a possibility that there's criminal liability here. I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a prosecutor. And I do know that the -- you know, the standard for a conviction in a criminal prosecution is quite high. So I'm not sure whether that could be met.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: So it is important to keep in mind that impeachment, of course, is a political exercise. It is not a legal one. So that means you need the votes in order to make it go from start to finish. It's clear the votes are on the House side. It's unlikely that the votes are there on the Senate side to convict.

So there's even the possibility, Ana, that this process is pushed beyond the president leaving office and perhaps even after the first 100 days of the Biden administration, James Clyburn, a very powerful Democrat in the House, said that the House may hold onto these articles of impeachment until after that process. So there is a still a lot we don't know right now. One thing we know for sure is that it seems this week, those articles of impeachment will at least take that first step. Ana?

CABRERA: And as you point out, it appears to be a little bit more bipartisan, at least at this point than it was last time around. We have Senator Toomey and Lisa Murkowski and we know Senator Sasse has said he would definitely consider the articles and that he believes that the president has disregarded his oath of office, so we'll see if this becomes a bigger snowball than it has already.

Thank you, Ryan Nobles, Jeremy Diamond, I appreciate it, guys.

With us now is Massachusetts Congressman Seth Moulton.

Congressman, you wrote a CNN op-ed while sheltering in place on Wednesday, and I just want to read a portion of it for our viewers. You write, this is no protest, this is anarchy, it's domestic terrorism. The people who are in the building right now are traitors to our nation by inciting this violence and fomenting a physical attack one of the three branches of government as it attempted to carry out its constitutional duty to certify an election. The president has violated his oath of office.

I know you support impeaching and removing President Trump if the 25th Amendment is not invoked. And we keep hearing some Republicans are going to be on board with impeachment, but we really don't have solid numbers. Can you give us a sense of how many may support impeachment in the House at least?

REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): Well, Ana, I can tell you this, standing in that room, the first person who came up to me and said this man, the commander in chief needs to be relieved of duty, was a Republican. Actually, such a conservative Republican, he was one of the missed begotten ones who was against voting for certifying the Electoral College. But the summary (ph) of what is going on is just unprecedented in American history.

I'm a patriot. I fought in the Marine Corps for our country overseas. It didn't make me proud as an American to write the words that you just read. It makes me embarrassed. But that's how severe this is. That's how dangerous Donald Trump is to our country.

And we need to send a message not just to Trump and his acolytes, but the future generations of American, to every future presidents, and to freedom-loving people around the world who are looking at how our democracy responds, this attack on our very selves, we need to send a strong message that we will never let this happen again.

CABRERA: You said that the first person who came up to you was a Republican who had planned to vote to object to certifying those electoral votes, which is what you are all in the process of doing when this insurrection or attempted insurrection took place. But we know 139 House Republicans did vote to object. So did this same person then turn around and vote against the electoral vote count? MOULTON: Look, what's going on among House Republicans is not a lack of intelligence and understanding what's going on here, how dangerous the president is. It's a simple lack of courage. It's the courage to do the right thing, to take a tough vote to come out and vote for impeachment, to say that this man is as dangerous as he is even if your constituents back home, some of them may be Trump supporters who haven't changed their minds yet. That's what needs to happen.

So, the point is with all of this that Republicans know the right thing to do.

[18:10:03]

I mean, I'm sure there's a handful, maybe a couple dozen in the House of Representatives who actually believe these crazy conspiracy theories that the president is pedaling. But the vast majority, including the vast majority of Republicans who voted against the articles of impeachment know the right thing to do. The question is simply whether they will find the courage to do it.

CABRERA: If you were to put a number on it today based on your conversations with your colleagues, how many do you think would vote to impeach the president today?

MOULTON: Ana, I'm not a pundit. I can't put a number on it. I think a lot of it depends on the momentum that builds among Republicans both on and off the Hill to really come to grips with just how serious this situation is.

And the more that you hear things from folks like Vice President Pence, who is still considering the 25th Amendment, from people like Colin Powell, a longtime respected Republican, the more you hear from voices like that in our country, the more these Republicans will finally find the courage to do the right thing.

So the point is the number is going to change over time. But it's clearly headed in one direction, and that's in the direction of doing the right thing for the future of our country, which is impeaching President Donald Trump.

CABRERA: There is a tricky timing issue though, we know, talking to the House majority whip, James Clyburn, there is a chance House Democrats might wait until after Biden's -- perhaps even his first 100 days that he's in office before sending any articles of impeachment over to the Senate. According to officials, President-elect Biden's advisers are working to keep impeachment proceedings from bogging down the early days of his presidency.

And although Biden has made clear that he will not stand in the way of the House moving forward with impeachment, there is an idea that you have a very short window to show voters how their lives could improve with Democrats in charge of the White House and in Congress. I want you to listen to what Senator Bernie Sanders said about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): I remember what happened in 2010, and that is the Democrats during the 2008-2010 period controlled the White House, controlled the Senate, controlled the House. Do you remember that? And do you remember what happened in 2010? The Democrats got wiped out. They had the power, but they did not deliver for the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: So if the impeachment process is not complete before Biden takes office, are you concerned that focusing on Trump after he leaves office will cost your party new voters who really just want their lives to improve?

MOULTON: Look, it's a very political question and Bernie is a very political guy. I'm concerned about the future of our country. I'm concerned about upholding our Constitution not just today but for my daughter, for my granddaughter, grandson someday, that we do the right thing now because this will be looked at for generations. So, look, we can debate the timing to get it right but it's the right thing to do.

And one thing we also have to remember about Donald Trump is that unlike past presidents, he's not just going to sail off into the sunset on January 20th, and we won't hear from him much again. He's made it clear that he intends to perhaps run again and certainly be involved in American politics. He might be even louder and more reckless as a former president, as an ex-president than in the Oval Office because he won't have the constraints of the professionals around him trying to get him to do the right thing.

So, the danger of Donald Trump is not going to end with the inauguration of Joe Biden. So whether we pursue impeachment immediately or we let some time pass before it happens, we've got to do the right thing. And we got to put politics aside for a minute to do the right thing for the country.

CABRERA: Congressman, just today, the White House lowered the flag to half-staff amid the growing criticisms. This is following the death of Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick, who died Thursday. Why did this take so long?

MOULTON: Because Donald Trump is a bad person. I'm sorry if that sounds like an overly simple answer. Donald Trump is a terrible person who doesn't care about others, doesn't care about our country, doesn't care about our Constitution, and sure as hell doesn't care about this valiant officer who fought to defend people like me who were trying to do our constitutional duty.

He's just a bad person. And in some ways that's at the root of all of this. And the message that we have to send to the American people is that we're going to hold bad, lawless people accountable.

But don't ever expect Donald Trump to improve. Don't ask questions about whether he'll maybe do the right thing in the final days here. Every time we expect Donald Trump to do something bad, he does something worse. CABRERA: Congressman Seth Moulton, thanks for being with us.

MOULTON: Thank you, Ana.

CABRERA: Up next, even after Wednesday's attempted coup at the Capitol incited by President Trump, some politicians are already trying to rewrite history.

[18:15:06:]

Will the dangerous and deadly misinformation ever end?

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Brian Sicknick achieved his lifelong goal when he became a Capitol police officer in 2008. So on Wednesday, he was doing his dream job. That's when he was critically injured while physically engaging with members of the pro-Trump mob that stormed the Capitol. Officer Sicknick died the next day from those injuries. He was 42 years old, a veteran of the war in Afghanistan and a friend to many on the Hill.

In fact, one former staffer to Nancy Pelosi speaking to USA Today recalled that when she was devastated going into work after Hillary Clinton's 2016 loss, Sicknick comforted her. She tells USA Today, I collapsed into him in tears and I knew he was a Trump supporter.

[18:20:01]

He was an outspoken Trump supporter. And he put that aside in that moment to comfort a friend, and it was a small gesture of kindness but one that has always stuck with me.

A homicide investigation has now been launched into Officer Sicknick's death. But three days later, no arrests have been made. Three days later and President Trump has not reached out to the fallen officer's family. And it wasn't until today after much blowback that Trump finally lowered the White House flag to half-staff.

I'm joined now by CNN Senior Political Analyst and adviser to four presidents, David Gergen, along with CNN Global Affairs Analyst and Staff Writer at The New Yorker, Susan Glasser.

David, Trump reportedly has not contacted Sicknick's family and only has been commenting on the officer's death through his deputy press secretary and in a statement today about lowering the White House flag, your reaction to this, given all your days in the White House with other presidents?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Ana, it's just shameful in how the president has handled this. I agree totally with what Seth Moulton said in his appearance just a moment ago. This is very serious. And the president, what have we seen since Wednesday, first of all, sent those people packing up to the Hill to engage in the terrorism that they did.

He, on Wednesday night, you know, he came out and made a statement he obviously did not believe in. And he spoke sort of to our higher values and it looked like a hostage video. It was something like somebody had a gun to his head and he had to say these words because the next day, he took it all back.

And since then, he's been in isolation, even silenced from his vice president who has, time and time again, defended him. We, consistently, over four years, found that he did not have the authority under the Constitution, did the right thing by staying out of the certification process himself.

And we've seen a series of things that I think has really made this a very serious moment when the next generation will judge whether we as a people, the leaders of this country today are up to it and the test is really for the Republicans. We know the Democrats are going to vote to impeach. The test whether the Republicans can see this is something beyond politics if they fail to rally to the side of punishing and holding the president accountable.

This is a party that will tell the terrorists, you won, we're quietly going to be with you in spirit. We're not going to speak out. We're not going to go after you. We've got to get it passed, and there's lots of talk already about these same people, these same thugs returning in time for the inauguration.

CABRERA: I mean, it was horrific as we watched the events play out on live T.V. And, yet, as we learn more about this attack, it appears to be so much worse than what we initially observed. We have now learned rioters carrying zip ties were apparently trying to take hostages. The mob was chanting, Hang Mike Pence.

Police discovered a truck full of homemade bombs. And now there's more new video, and I have to warn it's graphic, it depicts the mob beating an officer with a crutch, with a flag pole carrying the American flag. It is stomach-turning, Susan. This riot caused five deaths. But did we come close to witnessing something even worse?

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST (voice over): It does appear that it was a very, very close call for the members of Congress in the Capitol and for American democracy, frankly. And to the point about lowering the flag, this isn't just some symbolic gesture. It's part and parcel of what we have seen not happen since Wednesday.

It's a sign of the government essentially breaking down. Do you know there has not been a single press briefing accountability answering questions about probably the most significant law enforcement failure I've ever seen, and I'm including 9/11 in that. The extraordinary attack on the center of American democracy, the first time it was taken by hostile force since 1814, it has been days and days.

And where are our government being accountable to reporters? Where's the law enforcement, where's the FBI, where's the Capitol police? Where's a briefing on the security? What are the plans as a resident of Washington, D.C. to secure the Capitol for the upcoming inauguration of Joe Biden? It's clear there are very serious security threats.

The president is absent. The acting attorney general has not been heard from. The acting defense secretary has not been heard from. At least in the days after 9/11, there was a constant drum beat of at least a need to be accountable, to talk and answer questions. We've seen none of that from our government even though there's been this enormous breach not only of security but of our democracy itself. So I just think we're still in the crisis, frankly.

CABRERA: And, David, when you talk about Republicans having this moment of reckoning, so to speak, even after seeing the carnage, seeing these disturbing videos, some Republicans still refuse to call out Donald Trump for his role.

[18:25:06]

And some are now saying, like, Senator Roy Blunt, essentially, that Trump has now learned his lesson. I am quoting him here. He says, the president touched the hot stone on Wednesday and is unlikely to touch it again. Are you surprised that even after Wednesday's clear-cut events, they are still, in effect, circling the wagons?

GERGEN: Absolutely. After the Ukraine, after other people have said, his friends have said, he always learned his lesson. Now, it's all going to be different. It never changes.

Let me go back for a moment, if I might, Ana, to the horrific film clip you just showed. In politics, we have something called naked moments, moments when you have a picture which shows you the reality, the deeper reality of what we're going through, a picture of the 1960s of Bull Connor releasing those dogs on those children in Birmingham and other places. Those pictures were naked moments we understood for the first time just how bad this racism has gotten. In Vietnam, that young girl running down a path with napalm trying to escape a death, that picture lived on in memory.

And I will tell you, for this time and this generation, the picture you showed tonight will live on as naked moments that really do test our politicians that they have the moral fiber, the moral courage to stand up against this or are they going to play to the mob again.

CABRERA: Susan, I owe you an extra question next time around. I appreciate the discussion this evening. Thank you both for being with me, Susan Glasser and David Gergen.

GERGEN: Thank you.

CABRERA: Tonight, join CNN's Wolf Blitzer for "The Trump Insurrection: 24 Hours That Shook America," a look at what happened at the U.S. Capitol and what happens next. Here is a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PROTESTERS: Fight for Trump. Fight for Trump.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We have been told by Capitol police that the Capitol is in lockdown.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They broke the glass.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody stay down, get down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gunshots ring out and the rioters actually started trying to ram the doors down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are watching an attempted sedition. We are watching an attempt at a bloodless coup in the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a bonfire of the insanities that we're with watching in the nation's Capitol right now and it all flows from Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His initial reaction was not horror, which was almost everybody else's reaction. His initial reaction was to watch the show.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard multiple conversations loudly and publicly, find the vice president, hang the vice president.

PROTESTERS: Hang Mike Pence. Hang Mike Pence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a very real possibility that we will see aggrieved members of his base at the inauguration conducting protests. What we don't know is whether those will turn violent.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: This new CNN special report airs tonight at 10:00 here on CNN.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:32:24]

CABRERA: Today, House majority whip James Clyburn said House Democrats might wait until after Joe Biden's first 100 days in office to send any Articles of Impeachment against President Donald Trump to the Senate. But Alan Dershowitz, a lawyer President Trump is considering adding to an impeachment defense team, essentially is arguing that that would be the equivalent of being fired after leaving your job.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALAN DERSHOWITZ, ATTORNEY: The Constitution specifically says the president shall be removed from office upon impeachment, et cetera. It doesn't say the former president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Joining us now is CNN legal and national security analyst, Asha Rangappa. She's a former FBI special agent, a lawyer and Yale University lecturer.

Asha, good to have you here. Is the impeachment process limited only to a sitting president?

ASHA RANGAPPA, CNN LEGAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: There is no basis in the text of the Constitution that the impeachment process is time limited. It lays out the procedure, but it does not indicate when it has to take place. And Professor Dershowitz's argument is also not supported by history. In 1876, then-President Grant's secretary of war, a man named William Belknap, resigned from his position when there was evidence of corruption. And the House and Senate went on to impeach him after that.

But, Ana, there is also just a commonsense argument for allowing impeachment afterwards. There's no grace period to be able to commit crimes into the last days of office. And what if, for example, you discover evidence of very serious crimes, let's take the example of treason after the person leaves office, you have to have a way to create political accountability, and importantly the impeachment process also allows for the punishment of prohibiting the person from ever running -- or ever holding an office again.

So, I think that, you know, Professor Dershowitz has to make the best argument he can. I think if that is the one he's making, it's an uphill battle.

CABRERA: So you touched on this, but even if the president, President Trump, leaves office and then the articles go over to the Senate, what would being convicted in the Senate mean at that point? What type of punishment would that result in?

RANGAPPA: At that point the conviction itself, which would require a two-thirds vote in the Senate, would be largely, you know, reputational harm and symbolic in terms of sending a message to future presidents. But they can take a second vote after that, if they do convict to -- and this would require only a simple majority to bar President Trump from holding office again.

[18:35:10]

And so he would not be able to run for president or any other office. And that is actually a real consequence and punishment. And I would say that the very fact that that is in there as a potential punishment suggests that this is something that the Congress can do even after the official leaves office.

And let's just add, Ana, you know, the president is going to enjoy many benefits after he leaves office. He's going to have a pension. He's going to have a lifetime Secret Service protection, a huge travel budget. So he is continuing to enjoy the privileges of the office even after he leaves it. And it seems that Congress should be able to remove those privileges even after he leaves office as well.

CABRERA: What about facing criminal charges? What do you see for the president in that regard? RANGAPPA: Well, I think the president has -- needs to be worried about

potential criminal liability. Look, you know, even before last Wednesday, the Southern District of New York has evidence of potential campaign finance violations. The Mueller investigation laid out evidence of potential obstruction of justice just last Sunday, that was a week ago. We heard that phone call to the secretary of state of Georgia, which could be a basis for an election interference investigation.

And last Wednesday I think could meet the, you know, criteria, the elements of rebellion and insurrection. This is inciting people to resist by force the authority of the United States. Now, you know, the bar for criminal conviction is very high. You have to have evidence to be able to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. And so, you know, that's not assured. It's not even guaranteed that the next Justice Department will pursue it.

But I think once again the fact that there may not be criminal accountability even though I think he has jeopardy is another reason that impeachment should not be off the table because otherwise you would have somebody with no accountability at all.

CABRERA: And multiple sources tell CNN President Trump has been asking aides and lawyers about his self-pardon power. So we're talking about the criminal element here.

Asha, you wrote a piece for "The Washington Post" titled, "If Trump Pardons Himself Now, He'll Be Walking Into a Trap." How so?

RANGAPPA: Yes. I think if he pardons himself, it will be what they say these days as a self-own. As I mentioned, there's a lot of considerations that the next Justice Department will have to take into account before choosing to prosecute him, you know, all things being equal.

But if Trump pardons himself, that is a direct challenge to the authority of the Justice Department and the rule of law because he would essentially be saying that presidents are above the law. They can commit crimes with impunity while they are in office, they won't be prosecuted while they're in office. And then they can just pardon themselves out the door.

And so I think, if for nothing else than to not have this remain as some kind of historical precedent for future lawless presidents, I think the Justice Department would be forced to charge him with a crime because that is the only way to test the validity of the self- pardon. They would have to raise the issue in court, and if they charged him, he would presumably at that point raise as his defense that he has been pardoned by himself, and a court would be forced to decide the issue. So I think he is putting the feather on the scale of his own prosecution if he chooses to go that route.

CABRERA: Asha Rangappa, thank you so much. I really appreciate your expertise.

RANGAPPA: Thank you, Ana. CABRERA: Just 10 days into the new year, and the number of deaths is

soberingly high, while the number of vaccinations is alarmingly low. So what can be done to get more needles in arms to protect the population from this rampant virus, COVID-19? That's next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:43:11]

CABRERA: The number of people who have so far received a coronavirus vaccine is far fewer than the Trump administration's set goal. Around seven million people have received this vaccine so far, despite more than 22 million doses that have been sent to doctors and hospitals all around the country.

I want to bring in Dr. Leana Wen. She is a CNN medical analyst and former health commissioner for the city of Baltimore.

Dr. Wen, I want to get your thoughts on this very alarming news that we're hearing now that some physicians are being forced to throw away doses of the vaccine because supply-demand isn't just exactly lining up everywhere. How much does that concern you and do you see a fix?

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: That kind of wastage is completely unacceptable because I think about every dose of those vaccines that are being thrown away, if someone had gotten it in time, it could've prevented them from getting very sick and even dying. This is such a precious resource and really this wastage should not be tolerated at all.

I think what's happening is that there were very strict guidelines initially imposed on who could be getting this vaccine. But at this point we should recognize that maximum flexibility is important because the speed of an administration is falling far behind, and we just cannot have wastage. We should let the nurses and pharmacists do their best to get the doses out as quick as possible.

CABRERA: So when you talk about maximum flexibility, do you think that, you know, sort of tier system about who should come first should go away?

WEN: I think it is important to have general guidance because otherwise we know what happens, that those who are privileged are going to be able to get the vaccine first. And so we do need to have some guidance on who are the most vulnerable individuals who should get the vaccine first.

But then we should also say that, if there are, let's say, three doses in a vial that are not used, that the pharmacists or nurses should be allowed to give that to whoever is around instead of wasting it because throwing it away is just such a tragedy that I don't think any of us should accept.

[18:45:07] CABRERA: Especially when we don't have enough at this point. I know Joe Biden's team has suggested they will release every available dose of COVID-19 vaccine to the public right away instead of, you know, the current strategy which is to hold back half of the production to make sure that there's enough for everyone to get their second dose to complete the vaccination regiment. Is this a good idea?

WEN: So, look, I certainly support every effort to speed up vaccination. But we should also look at where the bottleneck is. Right now, the issue is not so much supply, but it's actually that last mile of getting from the distribution sites to actually people's arms. And so if we have more supply, that's not actually solving for the right problem.

I also want to make sure that for every individual who gets that first dose that they are guaranteed a timely second dose because that's how the clinical trials were done. I think there are major ethical issues if people who received the first dose are somehow not going to be able to get the second dose because there isn't enough in reserve for them if there are production snags, as an example. And I think that could really fuel vaccine hesitancy and further erode public trust in these vaccines.

CABRERA: And the virus continues to spread as we speak. In fact, there were 269,000 new cases reported just yesterday, more than 3600 new deaths reported yesterday. We all watch with horror the events, you know, a few days ago when the violent mob stormed the U.S. Capitol, smashed their way inside. And we didn't see many masks inside this crowd. There was even a period of time when several members of Congress were in tight quarters and were offered masks but a number of them refused to wear one.

Could Wednesday's insurrection at the Capitol turn out to be a super spreader event?

WEN: Not only could those violent mobs turn into one super spreader event, there can be multiple super spreader events that are fueled all across the country. The individuals who did not use masks or social distancing at the Capitol probably are also not following these guidelines when they go back to their home communities. And it's very likely that they're engaging in other risky behaviors there and potentially ceding coronavirus all around the country wherever they came from.

And so I hope that everyone who participated in those events will go back and quarantine and get tested. And certainly the lawmakers who were involved should quarantine and get tested, too.

CABRERA: Dr. Leana Wen, it's so nice to see you. Thank you for taking the time. Thanks for all you do.

WEN: Thank you, Ana.

CABRERA: And we just heard from Speaker Nancy Pelosi. We'll head to Capitol Hill for breaking news on President Trump's immediate future in the White House, next in the CNN NEWSROOM. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:52:07]

CABRERA: Breaking news on Capitol Hill. I want to go straight to CNN's Ryan Nobles.

And Ryan, you're learning more about the next steps Speaker Nancy Pelosi is planning to take to try to remove President Trump from the White House. What do you know?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That's right, Ana. We're now learning for the first time that Speaker Pelosi does fully intend to move ahead with impeachment proceedings. In a letter to her Democratic colleagues tonight she outlined the process that she sees this moving forward by, and she said that they're going to offer up a resolution by unanimous consent on the floor tomorrow morning that is basically going to set the clock for Vice President Mike Pence.

It will give him 24 hours to begin the process of invoking the 25th Amendment. If Pence refuses to do so or doesn't communicate to them that he is heading in that direction, they will then immediately begin the impeachment proceedings. So that means the impeachment proceedings could begin as early as Tuesday morning.

Now this really does put a lot of pressure on Mike Pence. Of course our White House team has reported that he has left the option of the 25th Amendment on the table, but he hasn't really talked to anybody at least up here on Capitol Hill about what his plans are going forward. This is Pelosi essentially saying to him you need to make a decision and make it quick because if not we are moving forward.

Of course, Ana, as we talked about earlier tonight, that doesn't necessarily mean that President Trump is on the verge of being removed from office even if the impeachment does make it through the Democratic-controlled House, which seems likely. He would still need to be convicted by the United States Senate to be removed from office before his term ends. That still seems unlikely. But at this point the first major step toward holding President Trump accountable for what happened here on Wednesday -- Ana.

CABRERA: OK, Ryan Nobles, thank you.

I want to turn to more breaking news. This comes from the tech world. The financial technology company Stripe says it will stop processing payments for the Trump campaign Web site following Wednesday's riot at the Capitol and of course that was incited by President Trump. "The Wall Street Journal" was the first report this. CNN has now confirmed it.

I want to go straight to CNN's Chief Media Correspondent, Brian Stelter.

Brian, what more can you tell us?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Stripe is an important company behind the scenes because it processes credit card payments for the Trump campaign Web site. Well, now it is not going to be doing that anymore. Stripe says that the Trump campaign, well, essentially Trump, has violated the company's terms and conditions by inciting violence. It is taking away his ability to process credit card payments, which means donations to his campaign, donations to whatever he does in the future.

This is part of a widespread effort by business companies, by all sorts of businesses to try to make sure that their platforms are not used by the president to incite further violence.

It is astonishing, Ana, that so many companies from Facebook to Stripe and so many in between are all stepping up and saying, we don't trust the United States president to use our -- we don't trust the United States president to use our services.

And frankly, Ana, we are seeing businesses, corporate America take swifter action against this president than we are seeing from the House or the Senate or the Cabinet.

[18:55:05]

CABRERA: So after this news has the Trump campaign responded?

STELTER: The Trump campaign has not responded. But CNN's Kara Scannell has confirmed. The "Journal" is reporting the Trump campaign has no immediate response. Of course the different platforms they can use to respond are rapidly dwindling. The president is isolated, shrinking hour by hour as all of these companies cut him off.

CABRERA: OK, Brian Stelter, thank you for bringing us that breaking news.

That's going to do it for me time tonight. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. I really appreciate you joining me this weekend. Thank you for being with me. A special live weekend edition of 'THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer is next. Have a great night.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.