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Trump Silent As Drumbeat For Impeachment Grows Louder; Impeachment Articles Could Be Introduced As Soon As Monday; Coast-To- Coast Manhunt For Siege Suspects; Right-Wing Extremists Celebrate Riot, Twitter Warns Of Another Attack; Experts Divided On Constitutionality Of Presidential Self-Pardon; Images Of Deadly Capitol Riot Shock The World; Indonesian Navy Locates Human Remains In Plane Wreckage; U.S. COVID-19 Deaths At Unprecedented Levels. Aired 4- 5a ET

Aired January 10, 2021 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. I'm Michael Holmes. Appreciate your company.

Coming up here on CNN NEWSROOM, calls for a second impeachment have grown too loud to ignore, pushing Donald Trump to assemble a legal team. This as sources tell CNN Mr. Trump and his vice president haven't spoken since the riot and Mike Pence reportedly not ruling out the 25th Amendment.

Plus, authorities make even more arrests following Wednesday's Capitol breach. The latest on the search for suspects.

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HOLMES: With just 10 days remaining in his term, Donald Trump is about to be impeached for the second time. That has never happened to a U.S. president.

As the magnitude of the deadly riots he incited comes into sharper focus, a political reckoning is looming. An article of impeachment is expected Monday unless the president resigns, of course. Even some Republicans say he went too far.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. PAT TOOMEY (R-PA): I have to say I do think the president's behavior this week does disqualify him from serving but we've got 10 days left, 11 days left. He is not going to be serving after that time. One of the things that I'm concerned about frankly is whether the House would completely politicize something.

I do think the president committed impeachable offenses, but I don't know what is going to land on the Senate floor, if anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now the lives of vice president Pence, his family and U.S. lawmakers were imperiled by Wednesday's riot. Sources telling CNN the president and Pence haven't spoken since that day.

Extraordinary.

We've also learned that Pence will attend Joe Biden's inauguration and he has also reserved the right to invoke the 25th Amendment as a last resort. Five people died in the carnage, including a Capitol Hill police officer.

Yet the White House hasn't lowered the flag to half-staff -- the Capitol building has. President Trump already thinking about his legal defense team in anticipation of another Senate trial. CNN's Jeremy Diamond with that from the White House.

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JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: With less than two weeks left in office, President Trump is facing the increasingly likely possibility that he will be the first president in American history to be impeached twice.

And so that's why the president is beginning to look at who will staff his defense team, should there be an impeachment trial in the Senate.

And now, two sources familiar with the matter tell me the president is considering Rudy Giuliani, his personal attorney and the former New York City mayor, and the controversial First Amendment attorney, Alan Dershowitz, to lead his defense in that eventual impeachment trial in the Senate.

It's notable the president is turning to those figures and not to those who defended him during his first impeachment trial, like Jay Sekulow, the constitutional attorney, and Pat Cipollone, the White House counsel.

That's because both of those attorneys have been increasingly at loggerheads with the president over how he's handled these recent weeks in office, over his refusal to accept his loss in the 2020 election.

And the president is increasingly isolated, not only by losing the counsel of some of these advisers but also by the spate of resignations we are seeing within his own administration, including the resignation of two cabinet secretaries, Elaine Chao and Betsy DeVos, just this past week.

The president, though, isn't expressing any regrets for his handling of that mob on Capitol Hill and his incitement to the riot that took place on Capitol Hill on Wednesday. Instead, the president seems to be expressing second thoughts, according to our sources, about the video that he was pressured to tape by his aides on Thursday.

That's a video where the president, for the first time, conceded that he will no longer be president after January 20th and committed to a peaceful transfer of power and said it was a time for healing and reconciliation.

Now the president, though, remains in a very volatile situation. Not only is there this threat of a second impeachment that is looming but also these calls for his resignation and the calls for vice president Mike Pence and a majority of the cabinet to invoke the 25th Amendment and strip him of his presidential powers.

Now a source close to the vice president said that, while it was highly unlikely that the vice president would invoke the 25th Amendment, he also -- this source also said that vice president Mike Pence is not taking anything off the table, believing that, after the events of the last several days, that it's important for the vice president to keep that option on the table.

A truly remarkable moment in American history we're all experiencing -- Jeremy Diamond, CNN, the White House.

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HOLMES: And CNN's Manu Raju now explains what we expect to happen in the U.S. House over the next few days.

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MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Democrats are pushing full steam ahead to give Donald Trump the dubious distinction of being the only president in American history who will be impeached twice.

That's where all signs are headed for an impeachment vote, by early in the week. Now the question is exactly when Nancy Pelosi will make it official that they will go down this route. She is indicating they plan to do just that because she has demanded the president resign or vice president Mike Pence take those extraordinary constitutional actions to force the president out of office by the 25th Amendment of the United States.

Now Pence is showing no indication that he is doing that. The president is showing no indication he is going to step aside. So Democrats plan to move forward with an impeachment resolution, accusing him of inciting an insurrection.

Now Democrats, behind the scenes, have been trying to get co-sponsors on both sides of the aisle to sign on to this proposal.

And the Democrats believe that they are making good progress to getting most, if not all, of their members on board behind this. There are 222 Democrats in the House. There is an expectation that they will be able to get a majority of support within that full House when the chamber votes, potentially by the middle of the week.

Now the big question will be, what happens then? Because there will only be a few days left in Donald Trump's presidency. And there's no indication that the Senate will come back before January 19th to begin an impeachment trial to remove Donald Trump from office.

Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, has indicated to his members that it would require the support of all 100 senators to change the schedule and come back into session for a trial. That, essentially, is not going to happen.

So that may mean that an impeachment trial may be kicked into the new administration, when Joe Biden takes office on January 20th. At that same time, Democrats will assume control of the Senate majority.

So the question will be how that impeachment trial would work in a Democratic majority, with a Democratic president, going after a former president, try to convict him on the charges of inciting an insurrection and effectively prevent him from holding office again.

So a lot of questions still remain. But at the moment, Democrats are furious at the president's role in the Wednesday mob that led to multiple people dying and deaths and clashes, including one police officer, U.S. Capitol police officer, who died.

And they believe the president needs to pay a price for that. So impeachment seems almost certain to happen in a matter of days -- Manu Raju, CNN, Capitol Hill.

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HOLMES: And with us now from London is Leslie Vinjamuri at Chatham House, she is head of the U.S. and Americas Programme.

Do you see impeachment proceedings as having a chance of success to Senate level?

And do you think it's the right political strategy?

LESLIE VINJAMURI, HEAD OF THE U.S. AND AMERICAS PROGRAMME, CHATHAM HOUSE: You know, it's a very challenging political environment, as we know. This will be divisive but I think you have to think of it in terms of what are the range of alternatives.

And the alternative of doing nothing strikes me as a potentially -- incredibly destructive because then we would see a number of individuals tried, they will be arrested in their home states, there will be trials.

But we've seen incontrovertible evidence, at least to the public eye, that the president has incited this insurrection, this violence. So not to at least have a public vetting in the form of an impeachment and then a trial, I think the cost of that not only in the short term but also with respect to our history would be far greater than the short-term costs, which will be that it will create some division. But Michael, we've seen some recent pollings that suggest that 80 percent of Republicans in the electorate oppose what happened at the Capitol. So I think there is a great deal more support for looking at this carefully than might be reflected in the Senate.

HOLMES: That's a good point. The risks of not doing something, most people feel, does take the precedence.

Do the events of the last few weeks or the last week put a dent in the Trump magic with some of the base?

I'm not talking about the fervent base we saw on the front lines of the Capitol but the broader electorate, if you like.

Do you think it's hurt him at all?

VINJAMURI: Well, of course, it has. As you've said I think it's really important to differentiate between that maybe 18 million, that very fervent base, and the 74 million people who voted Republican but the base, right, which would be much larger than the 18 million.

Again, the initial polling suggests -- and, frankly, just speaking to Americans, which we've all been doing a lot, Republican Americans -- people are not happy. The base is more moderate than many people believe. And certainly there is a red line that's been crossed.

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VINJAMURI: So I think the public will expect to see -- certainly they will expect to see law enforcement against those individuals directly involved on the day. But they will expect to see some sort of public process that goes right to the top.

I guess the question is, if it wasn't to be a trial in the Senate after an impeachment, then what would it be?

And to be very honest, I think that, even with an impeachment, even with a trial, that there's going to need to be a commission, a bipartisan commission, to look at this and to recommend some sort of broader process that brings in multiple sectors, that technology companies, people, Republicans, Democrats, community leaders, to really begin a process of talking about the damage that's been done over the course of the last four years and that's reflected in this week's events.

HOLMES: And to that point, Trumpism was, in many ways, a repudiation of the moderates.

Might we see some sliver of chance that that could change, that more moderate Republican forces might emerge and help Joe Biden govern?

I mean, Mitt Romney, Susan Collins; there might be one or two others, bearing in mind, of course, plenty of other Republicans helped foment what happened on Wednesday.

VINJAMURI: This is the interesting question. One person we will need to look to is Mitch McConnell. We all, I think, were watching that speech in the minutes before the Capitol was stormed, with our jaws dropped. It was an extraordinary speech.

It was very late in the day but calling on people to support and recognize the legitimacy of the vote and to move forward with certification.

So what calculations will Mitch McConnell make?

That will matter a lot for others in the Senate.

But we're seeing some signs, right?

The local -- the largest newspapers in Missouri calling on Josh Hawley to resign. We're seeing signs that the more extremist elements in the official corridors of the Republican Party are facing some degree of condemnation, not all of them.

But I do think that we -- that this will push more of a -- more of a centrist wing in the Republican Party. But also the inauguration of Joe Biden will be very important, because, of course, this is a man who has led much of his life as somebody who works across the aisle.

And he will be thinking very carefully and very clearly about how to forge and broker bipartisanship. It isn't going to be easy, not least because the Democratic Party has different elements within it.

HOLMES: Yes.

VINJAMURI: But it is the challenge going forward.

HOLMES: Yes. There is a lot of progressives who feel they are not being heard. Interesting, too, with "The Houston Chronicle" also hitting out at Ted Cruz, which was interesting. Leslie Vinjamuri, thanks so much. I appreciate it.

VINJAMURI: Thank you for having me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Now Parler that social media platform touted as the home of free speech online for conservatives, anyway, has been effectively shut down. Apple and Google have removed the app from their online stores and Amazon will revoke its web service on Sunday night.

And that, of course, pretty much renders it homeless out there on the internet. The app is popular among U.S. conservatives but both Apple and Amazon terminated service, saying Parler hadn't done enough to prevent the spread of dangerous and illegal content.

This comes after U.S. president Donald Trump and his campaign team were permanently banned from Twitter due to a future risk of, quote, "further incitement of violence."

Big tech companies have been struggling to get a handle on President Trump's online activity for years. Earlier I spoke with veteran journalist Lawrence Pintak and asked if the attack on the U.S. Capitol will be seen as the culmination of the president's time in office.

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LAWRENCE PINTAK, JOURNALIST: Small lies set the stage for the big lie. The demonization of Muslims and Latinos, of other minority groups during the campaign, brought us, absolutely and ultimately and inevitably, to this point, where they are calling for the hanging of the vice president.

This is a man, who made demonization an art form and who made Orwell's "1984" a reality. "War is peace," Orwell said, "freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength."

That should be the epitaph for this administration.

HOLMES: You have covered wars and revolutions around the world, as have I.

Do you look back and see parallels with what's been happening during this presidency and -- and what you saw in some of those other countries, in terms -- I guess, like charismatic leaders and how they convince people to believe things that simply aren't true and then those people go do terrible things?

PINTAK: Absolutely. And the worst part is when the niceties of civilization are stripped away.

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PINTAK: Sadly, we all kind of descend into chaos. I have a piece pinned on my Twitter page, that I wrote right after the election, the 19 -- where are we -- 2016 election, using the analogy of "The Lord of the Flies."

And essentially, predicting what -- what we are seeing now because I have seen it in so many places, Africa, the Middle East, Southeast Asia. People are inspired by a charismatic leader. They are given permission to do whatever it is they want to do. And they descend into "The Lord of the Flies."

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HOLMES: Many thanks to Larry Pintak for his analysis.

We'll take a quick break on the program. When we come back on the program, law enforcement agents across the country are hunting down the rioters who broke into the U.S. Capitol. We will have the latest on the investigations coming up.

Also images from Wednesday's attack on the U.S. Capitol show officers trying to force back an angry mob. We will take a look inside the insurrectionists' attempt to overrun security -- after the break.

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HOLMES: So far there have been at least 83 arrests connected to the deadly riot at the U.S. Capitol as a nationwide manhunt continues for the people seen, on video and in social media posts, taking part in the siege. CNN's Evan Perez with more now on the investigation.

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EVAN PEREZ, CNN SR. JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Federal authorities around the country are working through the weekend, hunting down some of the people involved in Wednesday's terrorist attack on the U.S. Capitol.

We know of at least 18 arrests on federal charges and dozens more are facing charges in local court here in Washington.

Among those arrests are Adam Johnson, arrested in his home state of Florida. He is seen in pictures carrying House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's lectern.

Also arrested, Jacob Chansley in Arizona, seen in video inside the Capitol, wearing face paint and a bearskin hat. The FBI says that Chansley told them he came to Washington because Donald Trump called for his supporters to come and that he organized a group to heed the president's call to action.

Another member of the mob facing charges, Derek Evans, a delegate in the West Virginia legislature. And he announced that he is resigning his seat.

Five people died in Wednesday's mob scene, including a Capitol police officer, who was attacked by the pro-Trump crowd. Prosecutors have laid out serious charges against some suspects, including against a man who drove from Alabama with a truck, allegedly carrying bombs and a handgun and a rifle.

Another man, arrested with firearms, allegedly told friends that he came to kill Speaker Nancy Pelosi -- Evan Perez, CNN, Washington.

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HOLMES: Now new video from the Capitol riot shows police officers pushing back a mob that tries to force their way in, crushing an officer in the process. Here is CNN's Brian Todd with more on that. I do want to warn you: the report contains some graphic images that might be disturbing.

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BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A rioter sprays a chemical at police, then it gets worse.

This was the horrifying scene on Wednesday inside an inference on the west side of the Capitol. At one point, a rioter tries to pry the gas mask off an officer's face.

The rioters organized their push even chanting in unison.

Then, sheer terror.

An officer crushed against a doorframe pleading for help.

We spoke with Jon Farina, a photojournalist for a media outlet called Status Coup, who recorded this video.

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JON FARINA, STATUS COUP: There was no, absolutely no talking to them. Nothing fazed them and there was no one main person, one main leader, that could have calmed that mob down.

TODD (voice-over): Farina told us rioters rip shields and batons out of officers' hands and seem to get more organized as they went along.

FARINA: People were hurt and being crushed. So, whenever somebody was hurt they would kind of like pull them out of there or they would walk out themselves. But then they would say, "We need more people. We need fresh patriots." So they would just kind of like rotate in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD (voice-over): Eventually the police pushed the mob back.

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CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Get out of our house. Go. Get out of our house.

TODD (voice-over): Former Washington Police Chief, Charles Ramsey, a CNN analyst says he contacted current D.C. police chief Robert Contee, who Ramsey says confirmed to him that the officer seen being crushed is a Washington Metropolitan Police Officer, not a Capitol Hill officer. As for the officer's condition:

RAMSEY: He went through an MRI and there was nothing broken. I mean, so he's sore as hell. There's no question about that.

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TODD: We reached out several times to the Washington Metropolitan Police and the police union as well as the Capitol Hill police for more information on the officer in question and his condition. They didn't get back to us -- Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

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HOLMES: Experts warn that the calls for violence from extremist Trump supporters have intensified ahead of Inauguration Day. Earlier I spoke with Jared Holt with The Atlantic Council's Digital Forensic Research Lab and asked him about future threats.

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JARED HOLT, VISITING RESEARCH FELLOW, THE ATLANTIC COUNCIL'S DIGITAL FORENSIC RESEARCH LAB: Historically, extremist groups have been fairly, if not just outright adversarial towards the government.

[04:25:00]

HOLT: This was something that we saw with anti-government extremism surging during the Obama years.

And you're right. Whenever Trump leaves office and officially and Joe Biden takes the oath, all of these individuals are not going to vanish off the face of the map or, you know, decide, all of a sudden, that they're not so radical anymore.

Instead, you know, the -- the major concern and the big threat here is that a lot of these groups will go from a sort of defensive posture of defending the president, acting on behalf of what they perceive the president wanting them to be doing, returning into a more adversarial position but with more numbers and with a, you know, sometimes spoken, sometimes unspoken support of a larger group of millions of people who voted, supported and believed the lies that president Donald Trump was spreading and fomenting about the integrity of our democracy.

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HOLMES: The Anti-Defamation League, which tracks hate groups, says white supremacists and far right extremists feel emboldened by the riot at the Capitol. Members of the U.S. Congress, by the way, are going to be getting extra security at airports in the aftermath of the attack.

Several lawmakers were harassed this past week, including senator Lindsey Graham, Trump supporters screaming at him on Friday as he walked through Reagan National Airport. Graham had been a staunch ally of the president but criticized him somewhat after the riots.

Republican senator Mitt Romney was also harassed by Trump supporters on a flight from Salt Lake City to Washington, D.C., before the riots.

Quick break here on the program. When we come back, Americans aren't the only ones shocked by what happened at the Capitol. We will get the view from overseas for you.

How much of a blow did U.S. credibility take this week?

We will be right back.

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(MUSIC PLAYING) HOLMES: And welcome back to our viewers here in the United States and

all around the world. I'm Michael Holmes. You are watching CNN NEWSROOM.

Donald Trump on the verge of becoming the first U.S. president in history to be impeached a second time. And only 10 days remain in his term. Let's not forget that.

Unless the president resigns, an article of impeachment is expected Monday and a vote by the House of Representatives Wednesday over his inciting a mob to attack the U.S. Capitol.

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REP. TED LIEU (D-CA): All of us, including Speaker Pelosi, would prefer that Donald Trump simply do the right thing and resign or that vice president Pence actually show some spine, at least for himself and his own family, and invoke the 25th Amendment.

If none of that happens, then on Monday we will introduce the article of impeachment, which is incitement to insurrection. And we do expect a floor vote this coming week.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Five people died when a sea of hostile and militant Trump supporters swarmed the Capitol last Wednesday, egged on by the president. Inside, were the vice president, his family and hundreds of lawmakers and staffers, who had no idea what was about to happen.

We've learned now that vice president Pence has not spoken to the president since that day. And sources say he is now willing to consider invoking the 25th Amendment to forcibly remove the president from office, if it comes to that.

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HOLMES: Michael Gerhardt is a law professor at the University of North Carolina. He was also a witness at the impeachment hearings involving President Bill Clinton. He joins me now from Chapel Hill, North Carolina.

Professor, thanks for doing so. I wanted to get your thoughts.

When we look at the hard facts of the calendar, how likely do you think it is there can be a successful impeachment, including a Senate conviction?

MICHAEL GERHARDT, LEGAL ANALYST: Well, time is short, as I think everybody knows. We are talking about roughly nine days. And that -- that's not a lot of time to get that much process done.

I think the impeachment, itself, in the House, probably, can be done in a day, maybe, one or two days. The issues here are not that complex and we all, pretty much, know the facts.

The real question will be, what happens with the Senate impeachment trial?

Senator McConnell's already signaled, I think, that that's going to be very difficult to get done anytime soon. So it's possible to squeeze it in. But senator McConnell, I'm sure, will do his best to try and prevent that.

HOLMES: Of course, the Constitution doesn't lay out, unless I'm wrong, any sort of limit on when a president can be impeached.

Can -- can an impeachment trial occur after he's left office for things, you know, he or she did while in office?

GERHARDT: It's a terrific question. And I think -- I think the answer is yes. Sometimes, the Senate has taken a vote, where some senators vote and others basically say, we don't have jurisdiction over this person anymore.

But the fact is the Senate takes a vote. And some of those senators, many of those senators, may believe that a trial which -- an impeachment process, which began before the president left office, may continue after he leaves office.

Even though he's an ex-president, he gets benefits and he is also subject to the fact that the Senate has the power to bar him from ever running again for office. So there's a sanction that's only available in the Senate, through an impeachment trial, that can still be used against the next president.

HOLMES: It's fascinating stuff. I wanted to get your thoughts, too. You know, there's been a lot of -- a lot of talk about the president potentially self-pardoning.

What -- what is the constitutionality of self-pardon?

There's no precedent but is it possible?

GERHARDT: Again, a really important question right now. To begin with, I would just note the Constitution expressly forbids pardons from applying to impeachment at all. So a pardon won't help the president avoiding impeachment.

But the critical question, of course, is whether the president can give himself a pardon that would somehow make him immune to all federal offenses or charges of federal offenses against him.

I think the language of the Constitution suggests he doesn't have that power. The actual power given to the president by the Constitution is the power to grant a pardon. The -- the words, to grant, suggests that this is to give somebody else something.

[04:35:00]

GERHARDT: It's not given the power to grant oneself something.

So I think the plain language cuts against that. The Nixon Justice Department concluded the Constitution did not allow a president to pardon himself. And I think history cuts against that as well.

HOLMES: And it's interesting, too. I was thinking, you know, there would be risks of precedent in -- in -- involved here, too, of a successful self-pardon. Wouldn't mean any future president could knowingly commit crimes or solicit benefits from foreign countries and so on, to win office, stay in office, do misdeeds in office and commit crimes up until the last day.

And then -- then, self-pardon, I mean, it does seem a dangerous precedent to set.

GERHARDT: Absolutely right. I mean, think how convenient it is for a president, who will claim that he is immune while in office, from any kind of legal process, particularly criminal process and then, on his last day, pardons himself so he's not liable later, either.

The framers were dead-set against creating a monarch or a king in this country who would be immune to the law or accountability. So I think the history of this country and particularly the Constitution.

And the language and structure of the Constitution that we have suggests the president can't place himself beyond accountability. So I would argue against the president's ability to self-pardon.

HOLMES: Fascinating stuff. We -- we have interesting days, ahead. Professor Michael Gerhardt, really appreciate it.

GERHARDT: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Now as deadly violence unfolded at the U.S. Capitol last Wednesday, the rest of the world, of course, watched in horror. Let's take a look at what was said in some of the newspapers.

From Canada, a headline declaring what happened Wednesday to be, "Anarchy."

In Italy, one paper went with the headline, "Once upon a Time There Was America."

And the "Times of India" with this. "Coup Klux Klan: Don triggers mob & rob bid."

And this is what the president of Turkey had to say about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, PRESIDENT OF TURKEY (through translator): The United States, which is the so-called pinnacle of democracy, has really shocked all of humanity and surprised everyone. It has similarly, surprised us, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: International diplomatic editor Nic Robertson joins us now from London.

America's reach and influence globally, respect, for that matter, it's waned during the Trump presidency, throughout it.

How does what happened this past week worsen that and perhaps make things tougher for Joe Biden?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It certainly gives a lot of ammunition to enemies and cause for concern for the United States' allies. Political leaders in democracy rely on the support of their population and if their population, part of the fringe elements of that population are reading that democracy isn't working and somehow it's flawed and you are being cheated, then that's corrosive for democracies.

And Joe Biden, President-Elect Joe Biden knew that this was going to be an issue coming out of the Trump presidency and had said and still stands by, in his first year in office, that he will hold a global summit on democracy to shore up its values.

But it's hugely important to him beyond just this idea that democracies are something to be valued. They are. We all know that. That's very clear.

But he also needs that, sort of to reassure America's allies, democratic allies, and to bring them closer and more trusting into the orbit of U.S. -- of supporting the United States, which is what allies do; they support one another.

And his biggest foreign policy challenge going forward is going to be China. So Biden, you know -- Biden has a big job here to convince United States' allies that America is trustworthy and it can be that beacon that it has traditionally been viewed as, can be going forward.

HOLMES: Yes, It was interesting listening to Mr. Erdogan from Turkey there and there's also been comments from places like Venezuela and Cuba and others, sort of almost pity for the U.S.

How will America's enemies use this storming of the Capitol to their advantage?

What tools do they have to exploit it?

ROBERTSON: You know, I think we've seen the tools that are available been put in play before on different issues and that sort of trolling, that's use of the internet to try to specifically target people who might be vulnerable to a political message.

So here is a raft of video, a raft of ideas that have not only sort of caught hold with an element of the population in the United States but can be turned around by troll factories that are funded by Russia or by China or, you know, countries that have big reach.

[04:40:00]

ROBERTSON: Big technical capabilities when it comes to sort of having an effective, hidden way of corroding the influence of governments around the world.

So that's the mechanism. Erdogan said that what's happened in America was a disgrace for democracy; we've heard from Russian politicians, the speaker of Parliament saying that America is no longer essentially the beacon of democracy. We have heard comments from the Chinese foreign ministry, wishing the people of the United States peace and stability going forward.

These are all messages that can be manipulated and turned around and used against governments in France, in Germany, in Britain and wherever, just to target fringe elements of the population. That's a narrative that we've seen, on other topics, can grow and it can grow dangerously.

So this is the way that America's enemies will try to reduce America's influence and they want America's influence reduced for one very simple reason: they don't like what America stands for, they feel a threat under risk from democracy.

China with its human rights violations; Russia's version of democracy is not valued by democracies in the west. These leaders feel threatened by what we -- if you want to use that expression -- by what we have.

HOLMES: Fascinating. Great analysis as always from Nic Robertson. Good to see you.

Now the United States is giving its diplomats more freedom to deal with Taiwan by lifting some decades-old restrictions on them. The move almost certain to anger China. The U.S. secretary of state Mike Pompeo making the announcement on Saturday.

China views Taiwan as a renegade province and American dealings with the democratically ruled island have long been a source of tension. Pompeo said that the old U.S. restrictions were meant to appease China's Communist regime. No more, he now says.

The grim search continues at the site of an Indonesian plane crash. Coming up on CNN NEWSROOM, wreckage has been located and some human remains have been recovered from the scene. We will have a live report.

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HOLMES: Authorities in Indonesia say they have recovered some human remains among the wreckage of an airplane that crashed at sea. The Indonesian navy says it is confident that they found the wreckage from the fuselage along with the wheels from the landing gear after locating a signal. The plane had 62 passengers and crew on board and a major naval search

operation is now underway. Our Kristie Lu Stout joins us live from Hong Kong.

What is the latest?

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN ANCHOR: Michael, there is a lot to update you on. We just have to imagine the agony for the family members as they are waiting for answers.

We have learned, as you just reported, that plane wreckage, clothing and even human remains have been pulled from the crash site located inside the Thousand Islands chain, an area located about 20 miles northwest of the Indonesian capital of Jakarta.

A jetliner carrying 62 people on board crashed shortly after takeoff from Jakarta. We are learning more about the missing and those on board that flight. It included a husband and wife, a couple traveling to attend a funeral, a family of five, including a 7-month-old baby boy, the father worked for the Indonesian forestry commission.

Earlier today we heard from the Indonesian president, Joko Widodo, who addressed the tragedy and also urged people to pray for the victims. Take a listen.

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JOKO WIDODO, INDONESIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): In the name of the government and Indonesian people, we would like to express our condolences on what has happened. And yesterday I already instructed the transport ministry and the search and rescue agency to help with the search operation as quickly as possible.

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STOUT: On Saturday the plane, a Boeing 737-500, had taken off from Jakarta en route to Pontianak on the island of Borneo. Just minutes after takeoff, officials lost contact with the airplane.

Earlier today, the Indonesian navy said they found the wreckage after picking up signals from the fuselage. We heard from the CEO of the airline, who said that this plane was old, it was a 26-year-old used plane but it was in good condition.

Weather also appears to be a factor here. We have learned that the flight was delayed some 30 minutes because of heavy rain. It is indeed monsoon season right now in Indonesia.

All of these investigators are looking into whether weather played a role; the pilot, the pilot error was a factor; also if machine error was a factor as well. But the investigation has only just begun. Also the agonizing wait for answers has also only just begun -- back to you, Michael.

HOLMES: Just terrible news. Kristie Lu Stout there in Hong Kong for us. Now they may be one of the only businesses thriving during the

pandemic but that doesn't make life easy for funeral homes employees. Their emotional trauma and heartache when we come back.

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HOLMES: Welcome back.

Just 10 days into the new year and the U.S. has seen at least 2 million new COVID cases and 24,000 deaths. That brings the total past 22 million cases and more than 372,000 fatalities. At least five states have hit a million cases or more on their own.

Now these stunning numbers make the need, of course, for vaccinations even more urgent. According to the Centers for Disease Control, more than 22 million vaccines have been distributed around the U.S. But less than 7 million have actually been administered.

The state of California being overwhelmed with coronavirus. Los Angeles County alone has reported more than 1,000 COVID deaths in just the last four days. CNN's Paul Vercammen spoke to funeral directors being pushed to their limits.

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PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: On Beverly Boulevard in Montebello, funeral homes, very close to hospitals that are under siege from COVID-19 and all the deaths.

At the Guerra Gutierrez Mortuary, it is a chain, you can see them in there, helping process the death certificates. And on the grease board, the names of loved ones and the hearse driver and more. For Richard Gutierrez, the owner, it's just staggering.

How is it making him feel that he used to do something like 28 services a day?

And now he's up to 56.

GUERRA GUTIERREZ, FUNERAL HOME OWNER: Frustration, anxiety because trying to get it all together and trying to perform a service that you're used to always performing, you know, impeccable service. And it's very, very hard because of COVID-19. And then, coupled with the fact that we have governmental restrictions that are imposed on us.

VERCAMMEN (voice-over): Just several blocks away, Gutierrez is getting help from Magda Maldonado. She owns the Continental Funeral Home. She's been lending him some hearses.

But she, too, just heartsick. She stood in front of a trailer at one point, where there are dozens and dozens of bodies and more bodies inside a shipping container. And this has caused her to seek medication for all of the stress she's under.

MAGDA MALDONADO, FUNERAL HOME DIRECTOR: I am really, really busy, I am overwhelmed.

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MALDONADO: I am with anxiety disorder now because of this. I've been medicated for that and it's really hard to continue working like that. My employees are overwhelmed, are tired and also they are getting sick. Their families are getting sick. It is a situation that I've never thought I ever was going to go through.

VERCAMMEN: These funeral homeowners in this predominantly Latino neighborhood say it's so heartbreaking for them to not provide the services that they are used to giving their clients.

Sometimes it spans over two days with a rosary or prayer vigil. Then there is a massive mass and then possibly a wake after. And they just have to strip everything down sometimes to a small outside service and a couple bottles of water.

For anybody who doubts the seriousness of the pandemic or thinks that the deaths are exaggerated, Richard Gutierrez, who is normally so reserved, looked at me and said, "For those people, tell them, grow up and take off their blinders" -- reporting from Los Angeles, I'm Paul Vercammen, now back to you.

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HOLMES: The U.K.'s Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip have received COVID vaccines. A source says the 94-year-old monarch and her 99-year- old husband got the inoculations at Windsor Castle from a household doctor.

The source also says the queen wanted news of their injections to be made public to prevent inaccuracies and speculation. England, of course, in the midst of a severe lockdown. London's mayor has described the situation in the capital as out of control and a major incident.

Thanks for spending part of your day with me and watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Michael Holmes, "NEW DAY" is up next.