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House Formally Introduces Article of Impeachment Against Trump; Some Republicans Continue to Push the Lies that Led to Capitol Siege; House to Start Process of Impeaching Trump if Pence won't Oust Him. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired January 11, 2021 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:57:10]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello everyone, I'm Kate Bolduan. We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world.

Today is the start of an unprecedented week in Washington, with critical moves happening in moments. Right now, House Democrats are about to take their first steps toward impeaching President Trump for a second time, making immediate moves to try and remove President Trump from office, either through the 25th Amendment or through a historic second impeachment process.

My colleagues on the Hill just got their hands on the article of impeachment, which right now has -- we believe -- 214 cosponsors pointing to the president's role in inciting the heinous insurrection on the Capitol. That is why, right now, we are all going to be watching and waiting for the House, the floor of the House of Representatives. Because when the cameras turn on in the House of Representatives and they gavel into session, the move is expected to happen quickly.

Let's go over to CNN's Phil Mattingly, who's standing by with the very latest.

So, Phil, what is going to happen today?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, let's first put it kind of in the broader perspective that you just did. The president is almost certainly going to be impeached this week, barring some major shift that currently is unforeseen.

What you're going to see when the House floor gavels into session at 11:00 a.m., it's going to be fast. It's a proforma session. It's not a normal session of Congress. However, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer is expected to go to the floor and ask for unanimous consent for a bill that would essentially implore Vice President Pence to utilize the 25th Amendment, where Pence and the cabinet, two thirds of the Cabinet, would be able to essentially give Pence the power of the presidency.

Republicans are expected to object to that. That will likely end the day in the U.S. House, but what this sets up is a process that Speaker Pelosi has put into place that will likely lead to a vote on impeaching the president for a second time as soon as Wednesday.

Now, the House will -- if it is rejected today, the House will vote on the 25th Amendment bill tomorrow, a straight up-or-down vote. But you noted the most important thing, the thing everybody has eyes on right now, are those -- is that single article of impeachment, a four-page resolution that is out. We had our hands on it.

In part it reads, "President Trump gravely endangered the security of the United States and its institutions of government. He threatened the integrity of the democratic system, interfered with the peaceful transition of power, and imperiled a coequal branch of Government. He thereby betrayed his trust as president, to the manifest injury of the people of the United States."

And, Kate, I think one of the other key elements that you already hit on here, already at 214 cosponsors. The magic number is 217. Make no mistake about it, if this article of impeachment gets a vote on the House floor, the president will be impeached. It's not even close right now.

And something I've been told this morning even -- also last night -- members, as they have seen the videos, more videos come out, more coverage come out, just the visceral fear and anger that has come in the wake of Wednesday, in the wake of January 6th, it has only grown over the last couple of days. Democrats are unified behind moving forward on impeaching the president.

[11:00:09]

BOLDUAN: It becomes more terrifying and more vertex the more videos that are actually coming out. It is getting worse rather than calming down.

Phil, Republicans have been speaking out. Some of them saying that they believe the president should be - should be removed from office, should resign, some machination of those things. But what is the level of support for impeachment that you're hearing about from Republicans?

MATTINGLY: So, it exists but it is low. And I think if you want to compare it to the 2019 impeachment where no Democrats -- or no Republicans voted for it, it is different in that regard. Right now, people I'm talking to say maybe half a dozen Republicans in the House. Obviously, you've heard from several Republicans in the Senate say they are open to the idea, depends on the language.

So, we'll keep an eye on things. It's not going to be a mass group of Republicans. Keep in mind, more than 140 of them still voted to object to President Biden's electors after what occurred on Wednesday. So, they're not moving any time soon. However, there are Republicans who are interested in it. And I think Democrats right now are calling, trying to get more on board as this moves toward a vote particularly on Wednesday.

BOLDUAN: Phil, I don't know if you have a monitor with you in front of you, but just let's talk for a second just what we are about to see. The cameras have finally turned on in the House. I can imagine there are still residue on the floors probably from the - from the attack from Wednesday just to put some real perspective on this.

What we're going to be see is right now they're going to pe coming in. They're going to be gaveling in. They're going to be saying the pledge. They're going to be saying the prayer and that is how quickly this is going to play out, correct?

MATTINGLY: Yes. That is exactly right. You'll watch it. And I want to stress this is going to be fast. If you think there is going to be some elongated speech or action on the House floor, that is not what today is.

Today is a proforma session. Today is an opportunity for those who are sponsoring the impeachment resolution, to be able to introduce that resolution. But the thing you're going to see - you'll be able to see will be Democrats attempt to get unanimous consent which means all members, all 433 current members of the U.S. House would have to agree for this 25th Amendment bill to pass.

Again, we don't know who from the Republican side is going to object. We are told it is a certainty somebody will object. That will likely bring a fairly quick or rather quick in to this proforma session. And then kind of trigger what the rest of the week is going to be.

The 25th Amendment bill is not going to be dead. They will now send it through the Rules Committee and then it will come up for a House vote tomorrow.

And I think that will be interesting to watch not because it has the teeth to force the vice president to actually invoke the 25th Amendment but it will be putting Republicans on record in terms of Republicans who have raised their concerns, Republicans who are now very uneasy or unsettled about what they've seen from the president over the last five or six days. They will now have to vote on that measure.

Again, the real ball game, though, the real thing that has teeth, the real thing that has action is impeachment. We know that resolution is being introduced as we speak. And we know that that resolution is going to pass whenever it gets a vote.

I will note, Speaker Nancy Pelosi has been very clear. And she was clear again in a letter to colleagues that she sent last night. They are waiting for an answer from Vice President Pence on if he's willing to consider the 25th Amendment. They're also pressing Republicans to essentially do what happened to Richard Nixon back in his final days in office with Barry Goldwater and other senators -- conservative senators going physically to the White House and saying this is it. It is time to go.

We have not gotten any sense that is going to happen. I think probably more importantly we have not gotten any sense that the president would listen to anybody. In terms of allies on Capitol Hill, he's down to pretty much Tommy Tuberville, maybe. I don't know who else is really talking to him besides Tommy Tuberville and Kevin McCarthy who is still the Republican leader. I don't know if they are still talking right now. They had a blow up a couple of days ago.

So, that does not seem like a likely scenario and that is why you've seen the House right now kind of pushing to this position. Also, Kate, have to note, as we kind of wait for this to kick into gear in the next minute or two. Democrats right now are very much weighing what happens next, right? What happens next.

They know that the votes are there for impeachment. They're almost certain the votes are there for impeachment. And then what? Because as we all know, the second the Senate gets the article of impeachment, the second it is sent over from the House by the next day at noon that Senate trial is supposed to start.

The U.S. Senate is currently out of session until January 19th. The only way it comes back into session is with the unanimous consent agreement. All 100 senators have to agree. It is very clear Republicans are not going to agree to that.

So, if you put the timeline together, if the articles of impeachment were to be sent over as soon as the United States Senate came back into session, the trial would start on January 20th. That is Inauguration Day.

And so, how this all works out, the dynamics of all of this right now still very much up in the air. We're in unprecedented waters right now. This is clearly not something Democrats thought they would be pursuing right now. This is something that has never been pursued before. And right now, as the speaker said last night in her letter to her colleagues, a lot of consultations with constitutional lawyers in Congress, outside of Congress and try to figure out the best path forward, particularly one that doesn't hinder incoming President Biden.

[11:05:00]

BOLDUAN: It does look that things are just - things are opening up on the Hill. Phil, standing by. It looks like Congresswoman from my look - it looks like Congresswoman Debbie Dingell from Michigan. It looks like she is going to be the presiding officer over this historic moment that we're going to be watching.

While we wait for this really kick off, let's get over to the White House really quick. Let's get over to John Harwood really quick. He is standing by at the White House. John, it looks like they're doing the prayer to open things up. Talk to me about the 25th Amendment. Is it seen as a viable option right now? What are you hearing from the White House?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Not as a viable option for actually being invoked for the same reason that Phil Mattingly said, only a tiny fraction of House Republicans are willing to support impeachment.

The same applies to the President Trump's cabinet voting to declare him unable to perform his duties. All the more so because two cabinet members who were disturbed by the president's conduct Elaine Chao and Betsy DeVos have already announced their resignations.

I think what this represents, and Mike Pence's strategic silence on this represents an attempt to keep pressure on President Trump to deter future bad acts in the last week and a half of his presidency. He took actions that endangered the United States last week. Endangered Mike Pence specifically, his vice president and Mike Pence is lending through as I said through strategic silence the effort to keep the pressure on the president not to do anything approaching that again.

BOLDUAN: And John, we talked about this this weekend. It is still stunning to me. I guess we need to check in and see if there's been any conversation today, on Monday. The fact that the president and the vice president of the United States who is caught in the middle of this mayhem on Wednesday, that they have not spoken since.

HARWOOD: Look, the president of the United States is not interested in doing this job anymore. He's obsessed with his defeat and the psychological injury he suffered. And part of his psychological affliction is that he does not care about any person other than himself. So, he was enraged that Mike Pence did not take some sort of action to subvert the Constitution and try to overturn this election.

Of course, Mike Pence could not do that. He turned on him before Pence took that action. He turned on him afterwards and the idea that people were shouting hang Mike Pence is something that doesn't move President Trump. That is the nature of his psychology. And it is one of the things that must have hit Mike Pence over the head like a two by four in assessing this president as he gets to the close of these four years of serving as Donald Trump's vice president.

BOLDUAN: That is right. All right. John, thank you very much. John Harwood is going to be standing by. He's at the White House. So, he's going to -- maybe there won't be any reaction from the White House but that silence will be a message in and of itself.

Control room, keep me on what we're hearing from the floor as things are moving along. But as we are waiting to see this happen, and it will be quick. So, I want to make sure we catch it.

Let me bring in Dana Bash, Abby Phillip and the former U.S. ambassador and a former House Judiciary Special Counsel during the first Trump impeachment, Norm Eisen.

Dana, talk to me about what this moment means.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It is huge. And it is going to be even bigger when we see the inevitable, which is that the White House is very unlikely to respond. And when I say the White House, I should say the administration, Mike Pence and other members of the Trump cabinet respond to the call that we're going to see for the 25th Amendment to remove President Trump from office or at least from his duties.

And so, the inevitable is going to happen and that is a second impeachment vote. And it will be the first time in history we've seen this. And I just want to echo what Phil Mattingly was saying about people become more and more angry.

I'm hearing the same thing. I've talked to member after member after member, who the more they learn, the more they see of these videos, of the intent and what is clear is the capability that they had to do real harm to them. It is becoming more clear to them, more scary to them in the days following what they actually experienced.

So, that is a real dynamic and a real feeling. The anxiety level is so high right now in the country but especially on that floor that we're looking at right now because of what we know that happened there less than a week ago.

BOLDUAN: And Abby, what happens here is going to be quick, yet it is going to be historic and set in motion steps that will all -- that could be very consequential, regardless of if there is another moment of history that we're watching with President Trump. What is this week going to look like?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, it is not going to look like anything we've seen before in this country. And rightfully so. We've never had a situation in which a president is accused of inciting violence in that very chamber where article of impeachment are likely to be introduced against him this week.

[11:10:00]

So, this is one of the moments where just a week before another president is about to be inaugurated, the current president is facing the second impeachment of his career. And I think that one of the things that you're seeing, the speed with which Democrats are moving, they've made it clear, members --

BOLDUAN: Let me jump in, Abby.

PHILLIP: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Steny Hoyer on the floor.

REP. STENY HOYER (D-MD): -- be discharged from further consideration of H. Res. 21 and ask for its immediate consideration in the House.

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): The clerk will report the title of the resolution.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: House Resolution 21. Resolution calling on Vice President Michael R. Pence to convene and mobilize the principal officers of the executive departments of the cabinet to activate Section 4 of the 25th Amendment to declare President Donald J. Trump incapable of executing the duties of his office and to immediately exercise powers as acting president.

DINGELL: For what purpose does the gentleman from West Virginia rise?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I object.

DINGELL: Objection is heard. Pursuant to Section 5A 1B of the House Resolution 8, the House stands adjourned to 9:00 a.m. tomorrow.

BOLDUAN: We saw it play out. That is exactly as Phil Mattingly and as Dana and Abby were just discussing. What we saw was kicking into motion the steps forward now. The House will convene tomorrow to have a full House floor vote on this resolution imploring Vice President Mike Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment.

Ambassador, let me bring you in on that. Your reaction to what that actually means, the feasibility of the 25th Amendment. What you think the considerations are?

NORM EISEN, FORMER HOUSE JUDICIARY SPECIAL COUNSEL FOR 2019 IMPEACHMENT: Well, the 25th Amendment applies when you have a president who is incapacitated. The vice president plus eight members of the cabinet can trigger the operation of the 25th Amendment. And that would temporarily suspend the president, put Mike Pence in the Oval Office, pending further proceedings in Congress.

It is extremely unlikely that Mike Pence and eight members of the cabinet are going to do that. But this is necessary anyhow because we have a president who is manifestly incapacitated. We can see his mental disability on full floor view for the world.

And it has gravely endangered the lives of the people in that building. Five lives lost as a result, including -- including one of the -- one of the U.S. Capitol police. And if this doesn't work, as Speaker Pelosi has made clear, she will then move the Congress, or the House will then move to considerations of an article of impeachment.

And, Kate, the point above all is that it is a moral duty under the Constitution to do this. If a president inciting an insurrection against his government, both Congress and his vice president who was in that building, the whole chain of succession, the vice president, the speaker of the House, the president of the Senate pro tempore was in that building. Their lives were in danger, lives were lost, tremendous damage.

If that is not a high crime and misdemeanor, nothing is. The House has a moral duty to do just what it is doing. And Mitch McConnell should call the Senate back for immediate consideration. This is on McConnell.

If our country were attacked from without, there is no question he would have those senators back immediately. He can do the same thing this week and he should.

BOLDUAN: That happened on September 12th. I talked to a former Senate parliamentarian and he laid that out for me this weekend. Where there is a will, there is a way.

But Dana, the Republicans as expected, objected. So now it goes to the full vote tomorrow. The Republican reaction to this has been mixed. You have Republicans who have spoken out saying that they want to see the president resign, the want to see the president removed. But you also then have the president's former Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney, you have Roy Blunt saying things that I honestly, I don't understand.

Mick Mulvaney saying this weekend, Dana, that people took him literally. I never thought I would see that. And then Roy Blunt also saying that why he doesn't support impeachment, moving towards impeachment is that the president touched a hot stove is how he put it on Wednesday. And he's unlikely to touch it again.

I heard that and thought, really? Are you hearing that same naive response out of the Republicans?

BASH: Not as much in private. And you're probably having the same experience. But in public, it is -- it really is unbelievable. I mean how many hot stoves does have the president to touch to be locked out of the kitchen. Enough already.

[11:15:00]

And this wasn't just you know touching a hot stove. This was lighting a match and lighting the House on fire. I mean, that is what the president did. Period. And now that we are learning so much more about the plans in place by these rioters, people who considered themselves revolutionaries.

They considered themselves that because they were being egged on by the president of the United States. We saw all of that in plain sight. And for people not to understand that his words have consequences, it just doesn't -- it makes no sense.

I mean, unfortunately, the sad thing is that it is almost surprising that it took this long for people to act on what the president was saying. All of these years, it really is surprising.

And the fact that it happened in the United States Capitol and so many members of Congress are telling me that they feel really sure that if the Capitol police hadn't at least put the people in safety and sort of abandon the building to take care of people, that more members of Congress -- not more, members of Congress and more people would have been killed at the hands of these people who thought they were doing President Trump's bidding.

PHILLIP: And Kate, could I just say one of the things that is pretty clear from how Republicans are responding to this is that they haven't learned the lesson of all of this. Which is that you cannot -- you cannot try to contain this sort of ideology that led to violence on Capitol Hill. You can't just try to appease people who do things like this.

One thing that you hear them saying all of the time is that if we impeach the president, if we do something to kind of provoke him, that it will only strengthen his support among his supporters.

Well, that is basically the argument that they've been using all along and that is what it has led to. And they're not willing, still, so many Republicans because of fear of emboldening the president's base. They're not willing to take a hard stance for you know what Norm and Dana just described, which if this is not something that is out of bounds, what on earth is.

And the reason they're not doing that is because they are still afraid of the president's base. The Republican Party has a problem in which they have a limb that is rotting on their body and they refuse to cut that limb off and cauterize the wound and that is why we are where we are today.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And I guess I need to say, when I said naive, I think I'm wrong. It is not naive. It is not naive the position they are taking. It is much, much worse than that because they know better.

Thank you all so very much. I really appreciate it. Ambassador, thank you so much.

So, while that is happening on Capitol Hill and the picture, if you look at Capitol today is a picture of calm. The threat to Democracy has not passed as we've been discussing. It isn't over. The line from some Republicans that fomented this hate and incited this violence is not over. It appears they haven't learned a lesson or have been scared straight by the terror on Wednesday.

Just two terrifying examples that deserve calling out happened, these happened after Wednesday's attack. Including newly elected Alabama Congressman Barry Moore posted this to his Twitter account on Friday. "Wow we have more arrests for stealing a podium on January 6th. Then we do for stealing an election on November 3rd. That is from a sitting member of Congress. And he didn't stop there.

He also posted this. "I understand it was a black officer that shot the white female veteran. You know that doesn't fit the narrative."

A veteran Capitol Hill journalist Jamie Dupree, he spotted this, and he called it out. And thank you to Jamie for that. Twitter suspended Congressman Moore's account. And then later, Moore deleted the account altogether because he regretted what he wrote. No. It does not appear so.

According to his spokesperson today when we asked for comment, they said this. "Twitter suspended Rep. Moore's account, and then he decided to deactivate his account because of the censorship of conservative voices he saw happening."

Let that set in. Also, on Friday, Nevada Nye County Republican Party posted a letter online repeating the president's lies about the election. Again, this was Friday. Two days after the attack.

In the letter attributed to the county Republican Chairman Chris Zimmerman. It said this in part. "Trump will be president for another four years. Biden will not be president. It's 1776 all over again."

The letter also accused Mike Pence of treason for taking part in announcing the Electoral College votes. And then this weekend, the same party chair posted another statement defending their position.

Saying this, "Nye County has always been Trump country so we don't see it as out of the ordinary to believe our president when he says he will never give up."

[11:20:00]

Also saying, "There was nothing in the letter that included, implied, or supported anything seditious."

The lying continues. They know better and if they don't, they shouldn't have their jobs. They are lying even after seeing real-time proof that words matter. And matter more than ever in this tenuous moment for this country.

We are still waiting for a further response from Nevada's state Republican Party about that.

Coming up for us, a member of the House Democratic leadership will be joining us. What do Democrats plan to do next?

And later, the D.C. mayor's urgent request for more assistance from the White House ahead of the Inauguration now. The new and real security concerns ahead of Joe Biden's swearing in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:25:07]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BOLDUAN: Another element of breaking news on Capitol Hill. We have now just learned that the House Democrats impeachment resolution, the article of impeachment, has been formally introduced today. It was just introduced just now. Which now sets in motion everything that we have been talking about moving rapidly towards what will likely be a second historic impeachment of President Donald Trump.

Joining me right now is Democratic Congressman Dan Kildee of Michigan. He is the chief deputy whip of the House Democratic Caucus. Congressman, thanks for coming in. How quickly is the House going to vote on impeachment this week?

REP. DAN KILDEE (D-MI): Well it could be as early as Wednesday. I'm a cosponsor of the impeachment resolution. Tomorrow we'll go to the floor with a resolution calling upon the vice president and the cabinet to invoke the 25th Amendment. Absent their action, which we're still hopeful about, but absent their action, we'll move as quickly as possible to take the impeachment article to the floor of the House and act upon it.

BOLDUAN: Do you really think there is any chance you're going to hear a response from Mike Pence?

KILDEE: You know, it is hard to say. Mike Pence, like many of us, were targets of this mob. And I have to hold out the hope that he understands that he was left out in the cold by Donald Trump in a dangerous situation. And you know, Kate, it is hard for some of us to not think about this personally. I was part of the group of members, a small group that was left behind in the gallery when the Capitol was evacuated. We were in a bad situation.

And you know I know they were coming for us and they were coming for Mike Pence. The idea that that wouldn't somehow move and those around him to think really carefully about the fact that when that was happening, Donald Trump was in the White House gleefully cheering on this crowd and couldn't figure out why the people around him weren't sharing his glee. If that doesn't disqualify him of all of the things that do disqualify him, I don't know what does.

BOLDUAN: And Congressman, I'm sorry I didn't ask off the top. Because you and your staff lived through a terror attack, real trauma on Wednesday. How are you doing?

KILDEE: You know, I'm doing OK. I was listening to your reporting earlier and one thing I have to say is absolutely correct, somebody mentioned that we're learning more exactly about how exactly this thing went down and how dangerous it was. And so, for those of us that were in that really bad spot for a while, we thought we were in danger. With you only in the last couple of days have come to understand exactly the kind of danger that we were facing. And that sort of retraumatized everybody all over again.

So, I really feel for my friends who have this now special bond of those folks that, like others who were stuck in rooms in the Capitol and some staff were in the same position. But we were in this terrible situation in the gallery. And you know, obviously I'm going to carry this with me for the rest of my life.

But you know the threat was to our democracy. We faced a personal threat. But we now see that we have a president of the United States who was involved in a scheme, a plan to try to overthrow another branch of the very government that he's a part of. My god. The idea that some of my Republican colleagues are still clinging, number one to this big lie about the election, it is a lie they know is a lie. It is not that their ignorant or naive, it is that their cynical.

And the idea that some of them are still clinging to this adds another measure of trauma to the country. Because they're not accepting responsibility for their part of this, as small as it might have been and that is very difficult for us.

BOLDUAN: Well, Congressman, to that point, one of the House Republicans who has kind of led the charge in this was Congressman Jim Jordan and he spoke out this weekend and I want to play for you what he had to say about impeachment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): I hope the Democrats don't go down this road. I do I do not see how that unifies the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLDUAN: Add to Jim Jordan, three members of the Michigan congressional delegation, three Republicans, Jack Bergman, Lisa McClain and Tim Walberg. All in your state delegation. They all voted even after the fact, they all voted to continue with this just like Jim Jordan did. What should happen -- what should the consequence be?

KILDEE: Well, I think one consequence that is inescapable already is that their names are etched in stone for all history. After an attack on the Capitol of the United States, where members were at risk of losing their lives, where five people actually died, including now two Capitol police officers.