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House Gears Up to Impeach Trump a Second Time Tomorrow; FBI Warns "Armed Protests" Being Planned in All 50 States & D.C.; Today: Trump's First Public Appearance Since Deadly Riot. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 12, 2021 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:02]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Poppy Harlow.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

The president's final days coming to a dark and stunning end.

Right now, the House is back in session. Democrats are pushing forward with their effort to oust the president of the United States. Even with days to go.

A vote set for today to put pressure on Vice President Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment and remove President Trump from office immediately. Failing that, their next step to impeach the president for an unprecedented second time in a single presidential term and, goodness, the second time in less than a year, Poppy.

HARLOW: Yeah, it's really extraordinary and all of this is less than one week from the deadly riot at the U.S. capitol. We are unfortunately bracing for more potential violence.

The FBI this morning is sounding the alarm as we close in on President-elect Biden's inauguration. An internal bulletin from the FBI says that, quote, armed protests are being planned in all 50 state capitols across the country.

Leading up to President-elect Biden's inauguration, of course, Pennsylvania Congressman Conor Lamb issued this warning this morning saying, do not take this lightly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CONOR LAMB (D-PA): They have published rules of engagement meaning when you shoot and when you don't. So, this is -- this is an organized group that has a plan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: An organized group that has a plan. Let's begin on Capitol Hill. Our team is there, Sunlen Serfaty and Lauren Fox.

Good morning to you both. Sunlen, let me begin with you in terms of impeachment. So a vote

tomorrow morning, is that right?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And today will certainly be a long and busy day for the house setting up that vote for tomorrow. You will see essentially a slew of different procedural steps happen today that are all driving towards the Democrats' quest to essentially remove President Trump from office.

First up, you'll see at 11:00 am this morning the House Rules Committee, meaning they'll be essentially going over the parameters of the debate over the 25th Amendment resolution and the resolution on impeachment. Now once that is passed, once those rules are passed, that is when very likely tonight, a late night vote, we'll see every member have to go on the record on that 25th Amendment resolution. They will also tonight be setting up the final vote for tomorrow on the impeachment resolution.

Now, of course, that is hugely significant, hugely historic given the fact that likely when that gets passed in the house tomorrow morning, that will mean that President Trump will be the first sitting U.S. president to be impeached twice.

Now after that, the big question turns to what does the Senate do? How and when do they take up the Senate trial over impeachment? That's the next big question -- Jim and Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Lauren Fox, and by the way, congratulations on your appointment as new Capitol Hill correspondent for CNN.

Tell us where that stands then. One, in the House, are there any Republicans on board, and how many and chances of a trial before inauguration?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, essentially Democrats who have been working on this impeachment article for the last several days tell me that they're having conversations with Republican offices. They are confident that there are going to be a few Republicans who vote with them. Of course, all eyes are on Liz Cheney, the number three Republican in leadership in the House.

Essentially, the question becoming whether or not she would break with her other top leaders like Kevin McCarthy, like Steve Scalise and vote with Democrats on this impeachment article tomorrow.

Now, we know that on a conference call yesterday, Liz Cheney told members that this was a vote of conscience. This was something that each member needed to make a decision about individually. There nor parameters on whether leadership will be whipping this vote.

We're also going to keep an eye on someone like Adam Kinzinger, a Republican from the state of Illinois, who has been outspoken against the president in the past. So those are a few members to keep an eye out for.

We don't expect there's going to be more than a dozen Republicans breaking with their leadership on this. But it is a moment where Republicans, many of whom, some of whom are in that chamber last Wednesday are feeling like their own lives were in danger given the president's steps.

Now that question w what happens in the U.S. Senate, that is still very much a live ball right now. There are conversations happening about what is actually possible.

Remember, in the U.S. senate, every day, once they start this impeachment trial, they have to be sitting in the chamber at noon having this trial. Now whether or not they can do some morning business, whether they can do some of Vice President Biden, president- elect Biden's nominees in the morning, that's still an open question and something that they are talking through as we speak -- Jim and Poppy.

HARLOW: There's such a difference between what they can do and what they will, do right, Lauren?

Thank you both for the reporting. Sunlen as well.

All 50 states, sadly have to be on alert, high alert this morning after the FBI warned of, in their words, quote, armed protests. They're being planned at every state capitol, and the U.S. Capitol in Washington.

[09:05:07]

SCIUTTO: The FBI, and that's armed protests. This news, this warning comes as law enforcement agencies and local government officials are rushing to implement new security measures to keep people safe in those capitols.

Joining us now, CNN justice correspondent Jessica Schneider, CNN security correspondent Josh Campbell.

Jessica, let's begin with you. Tell us the seriousness of this FBI warning here. I mean, they don't issue these warnings lightly. And the scope is truly remarkable, all 50 state capitols.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is. And we have taken a look at this internal bulletin. We've gotten our hands on it. It's quite lengthy. And the FBI really lays out in stark detail the warnings there could be this cascade of uprisings and violence, not just here in Washington but all over the country.

So the bulletin is saying that there are credible calls for armed protests at the 50 state capitols as well as the U.S. capitol all in the lead-up to the inauguration next week. Different time frames beginning on January 16th.

Plus, the FBI is warning about a group that's calling for others to join them to storm the government, government courthouses, administrative buildings, if the president is removed from office before January 20th. And especially alarming for the FBI is that they are seeing a number of threats against President-elect Joe Biden, Vice President-elect Kamala Harris and federal agents, they're monitoring all of these threats in real-time. They have put out this bulletin.

But, yes, Jim and Poppy, the warnings are stark, and it spans the country.

HARLOW: And, Josh, I mean, you are a former supervisory special agent for the FBI. So you know this stuff inside and out. How right now are the authorities, you know, trying to plan to prevent any attacks at any of these state capitols?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, with the threats coast to coast, all field offices of the FBI are now on high alert. They'll be conducting threat assessments within their individual domains. And there's just a panoply of resources that they're able to bring to bear in these investigations. They'll be looking at social media, for example.

So much of this we saw leading up to the attack on the Capitol was plain for everyone to see online, a lot of this outrage, people saying they were going to storm the United States Capitol, so social media will be important. We know the FBI will also reach out to their individual human sources to get as much information as they can.

The problem here for law enforcement is that in any type of threat situation, there are two aspects. They are stopping the tactical efforts stopping the threat on the ground. There's also the issue of motivation. What is motivating a threat and this is -- in this instance in the way we've never seen before, this is being motivated by the president of the United States himself who continues to say the election was stolen who continues to say that democracy was upended by his opponents. That is fueling so much of the outrage and that is what is concerning law enforcement right now.

There's a lot they can do on the tactical end. Not a lot they can do with the motivation as the president continues to claim that the election was stolen.

SCIUTTO: Jessica, already two U.S. Capitol Hill police officers have been suspended, 15 more under investigation for their behavior, tacit, perhaps even more marked support of some of those rioters. How extensive do law enforcement officials believe this problem is?

Because there were other current and former members of law enforcement from around the country that took part, fire department from New York, members of the military, former members of the military.

How deep are they concerned that this goes?

SCHNEIDER: Well, like you said, Jim, this is spanning not only the capitol police department but also departments across the country. We've seen Seattle, New York, Philadelphia, as far as the Capitol Police Department, there's a new acting chief. She's addressing this head on. Yogananda Pittman.

And she released a statement saying they are reviewing video of some Capitol Police officers that appear to be violating these regulations. There's two suspended so far. One of whom took a selfie with someone who stormed the Capitol. Another who wore a Make America Great Again hat, and maybe even start directing people how to go around the building.

So we are hearing about, in addition to those two suspended, another 10 to 15 who are under investigation. And this is ranging across departments across the country as well. So there are many investigations ongoing at these departments but, you know, like you said, Jim, it's not just a random few. There are several here who may have violated their own agency rules.

HARLOW: Josh, given all that you two have just reported, how on earth can it be that there has still not been a press conference on this insurrection from the U.S. Capitol police, from the FBI, from the Department of Justice or Homeland Security? Should that not outrage every American?

[09:10:00]

CAMPBELL: This is growing criticism we are continuing to see build. And that's this apparent radio silence as it comes to publicly briefing the American public on not only what transpired but what also might be coming down the line.

And you'll recall that the reason why we know about this FBI bulletin is because of some good reporting, reporters working their sources. This was not released to the public. This was sent out to law enforcement.

So, this has been that criticism. What happened at the Capitol? What are you doing about it?

And the problem here for the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security is this is continuing to fuel that narrative that they treat right wing violence differently than they do left wing violence. If this was Antifa, even ISIS or a terrorist group, based on past incidents, law enforcement comes out very quick three talk about what happened and to reassure the public. We're not seeing that here.

SCIUTTO: On that point, you mentioned, Josh Campbell, Antifa. For days after this, sitting Republican lawmakers, the president, the right-wing media propagated this myth that the real troublemakers were Antifa. The FBI days ago said no evidence of that.

And, Jessica Schneider, now Kevin McCarthy, the House GOP leader apparently said that in no uncertain terms to the president as well. Antifa was not part of this or behind this.

SCHNEIDER: Right, but the problem is that narrative already got out, you know, most particularly in the right wing media. So a lot of these people who are these chat rooms, drumming all of this up on social media, that's what potentially they believe because that's what was out there initially from a lot of influential people who they were listening to. It doesn't matter as much now that a lot of those people are walking it back saying that's not the case. So, you know, like Josh said, this is coming from the top. These

people are taking their cues from the president, and it makes it very difficult for law enforcement to really tackle this on that end.

SCIUTTO: I'll tell you, you see a school shooting, for instance, local police, federal police or a terror attack, as you mentioned, Josh, they are out there within hours briefing the public, repeatedly. This is days. This is days later. It's remarkable not to hear.

Well, listen, if you're listening, Chris Wray and others, the American public needs to hear from you.

Jessica Schneider and Josh Campbell, thanks very much to both of you.

Still to come, President Trump is set to depart the White House for Alamo, Texas. Not the Alamo. Alamo, Texas. Less than an hour from now.

It is his first public event since the deadly riots. We're going to bring the latest on that.

HARLOW: And how will this second impeachment play out? We'll talk to two attorneys that were involved in the president's first impeachment on opposite sides. They'll weigh in.

And the president's administration changing course dramatically this morning on how vaccines are distributed. What does it mean for you? Will you now be able to get the COVID vaccine sooner? Ahead.

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[09:17:06]

SCIUTTO: Well, as Democrats prepare for a second impeachment vote of this president, in the next hour, President Trump will head to a Texas town along the U.S./Mexico border to tout the completion of 400 miles of border wall.

HARLOW: Clearly not what the country is focused on right now but that's what he's doing.

John Harwood joins us at the White House.

Good morning to you, John.

This, as the president banned from Twitter, has not spoken, tweeted publicly for days. Expectations that he'll actually answer reporters' questions on the way out of the White House?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I wouldn't expect it. So far, Poppy, since suffering that terrible blow of losing the election, President Trump hasn't had the stomach generally speaking to face reporters. Now it is the fact that he's going to Texas to highlight the wall is an acknowledgment that he is trying to point to his legacy, that he's going to be leaving office. Never mind the fact that the country doesn't want to hear about that right now, that he hasn't built 400 miles of new wall. He's built a few miles and his reinforced existing wall that Mexico is not paying for it.

But his legacy is really defined right now by what happened last week. And as a consequence of that, most of official Washington is focused on getting him out of office without doing further harm.

You mentioned that the Democrats are launching this impeachment effort. Not likely to remove him from office. There's also talk of the 25th Amendment, and it's notable that some of his own cabinet secretaries are not dismissing that talk. They're not confirming it, but they're not denying it outright.

Listen to Alex Azar, the health and human services secretary, on ABC this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX AZAR, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: I've wrestled with this. I'm committed to see this through in my role as health secretary during a pandemic to ensure the vaccines and therapeutics get out to the American people and to ensure a smooth hand-off to President-elect Biden's team.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: Have you had discussions about the 25th Amendment with either other cabinet members or the vice president?

AZAR: It would not be appropriate for me to discuss, and I never have, my conversations with colleagues or with the president and vice president, George.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARWOOD: Now we have no indication that Vice President Mike Pence intends to try to get the 25th Amendment process rolling. It likely would not be successful anyway, in part because cabinet secretaries most troubled by the president's decisions have resigned. Elaine Chao, Betsy DeVos, education secretary, last night Chad Wolf, the acting homeland security secretary also quit.

Nevertheless, the talk of this mechanism is a way to put pressure on the president to try to deter him because the one thing we've seen from the president is that he doesn't respond to ordinary cues about right and wrong and he didn't during this siege of the Capitol.

[09:20:02]

He does respond when he thinks there is the pressure of consequences on him personally and that's what this discussion is all about.

HARLOW: John, thank you very much. John Harwood at the White House.

Let's talk more about what you're going to see take place starting really tomorrow morning and in the next week or so.

Barry Berke is here. He served as special counsel to the House Judiciary Committee during the president's first impeachment. He's also currently representing the state of Pennsylvania against the president's electoral challenges.

And Robert Ray, a member of President Trump's defense team during the last impeachment and former Whitewater independent counsel.

Gentlemen, good to have you.

And, Barry, let me you just begin with you because you warned in a statement before the Judiciary Committee in the last impeachment, which it's remarkable that in the span of a year there have been now two impeachments and proceedings against the president, but you said to the House, quote, our imagination is the only limit to what the president does not do next, if he is not checked in this impeachment.

I just wonder what your thoughts are this morning as we head into tomorrow, the second impeachment vote in a year.

BARRY BERKE, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL FOR HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE DURING TRUMP IMPECH: Yeah, good morning, Poppy.

No, I am horrified how true that statement was. In ways that was hard to even imagine. So it was right to talk about that. Right after the impeachment when the president is emboldened for being acquitted for his unconstitutional conduct, he then proceeds to continue his -- putting his personal and political interests over the country's interests.

He denies the severity of the pandemic and politicizes his response with the states. He weaponizes the Department of Justice to punish his enemies, reward his friends. He seeks to interfere with the election by defunding the Postal Service and making false claims about mail-in ballots.

Then when the election is ongoing, he tries to interfere with some of the most core principles underlining our Constitution, free and fair elections. And when he's unsuccessful in persuading the states, unsuccessful in persuading his vice president and the Congress to deny what the American people voted for, he then incites an insurrection.

So you can see not only does his conduct continue when his allies in Congress refuse to hold him accountable, but it gets worse. It accelerates each step of the way. That's why his -- this impeachment is so critical to our democracy in the country.

SCIUTTO: Robert Ray, given that the essence of the charges in the first impeachment, right, taking his own political interests, defeating Joe Biden over those of the country, taking military assistance away from Ukraine, have so much in common with these -- this article of impeachment, right? Personal, political interest, not only over the safety of the Capitol with that violent mob, but repeated attempts to overturn the election at every level, including pressure on the state officials which is also mentioned in this article.

I wonder, do you regret defending him in that first impeachment?

ROBERT RAY, FORMER IMPEACHMENT ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: All right, no, not at all. I mean, again, this is always about what's in the best interest of the country and impeachment is not supposed to be about a list of imaginations or political grievances or political essences. It's about --

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: The call to Ukraine had already happened. That wasn't imagined. There was a record of it. People testified what he said.

RAY: At least this impeachment doesn't suffer from the defect that the last one did that it didn't even charge a crime.

Now on the question of soliciting or inciting a riot, you know, what is cited in the article of impeachment that I have seen, that I presume was going to be voted on as soon as, I think, Wednesday morning, is the president's statement, if you don't like -- if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

RAY: I mean, that doesn't strike me as a particularly strong and persuasive allegation that a crime has been committed.

Look, I understand, and I think the president understands that there was a grievous error in judgment here. And I guess the question is, what is the country going to do about it?

I think there's bipartisan support, if the Congress proceeded toward a censure resolution that I think would have Republican support in the Senate. But if we're traveling down the road of impeachment, I thing consensus is there's not bipartisan support to remove him from office and certainly not with a trial within seven days as of Wednesday of the inauguration.

I think we ought to focus on what's achievable and ultimately what's in the best interest of the country. And one of the proudest things I am of what occurred during the Clinton impeachment and its aftermath is that I resolved things with regard to the president before he left office. The principal, collateral benefit of that is that it didn't hang over into the next administration. And that was in 2001. Little did I know eight months later, 9/11 occurred.

So I think there's real damage that's done to the first 100 days of a Biden presidency. I mean, I guess I would implore the country and our elected officials to think about that and whether really it's time for everybody to just ride out the remaining seven days and move on.

[09:25:06]

If there needs to be a censure resolution, I think that would pass with bipartisan support. And I think that's what David Kendall, who was President Clinton's lawyer opined this week in "The Washington Post." I think it's achievable.

And Jim Clyburn is essentially suggesting the same thing. I think that's where we should go. HARLOW: Clyburn is saying -- Clyburn is saying maybe we hold off and

have a Senate trial 100 days after so we can get the cabinet nominees confirmed, et cetera. But -- so, that's interesting, Robert.

Barry, what do you think about a censure? Because my reading of it and I'm not the expert lawyer, you guys are, it's nothing more than a verbal wrist slap. It doesn't mean the president can't run again.

So if you talk about actually what it means for a Biden administration, it would not prevent a President Trump from running again for 2024, for example. It does a lot less than an impeachment conviction.

BERKE: A censure would be an insult to the framers of the Constitution. They invested Congress with the power of impeachment to hold a president accountable.

And in their mind, there could be no offense greater than attacking a frontal assault, our democracy, right? The peaceful transfer of powers at the core of our country. That the world looks up to us for being able to so have engrained in our system these Democratic principles. The president attacked it. He attacked the elections falsely.

Not only that, he inspired this violence and continues to do it by continuing to peddle lies about the election. So Congress needs to speak for a number of reasons. Both to make clear that they are exercising their role to defend our Constitution and hold the president accountable.

Also, the Founders were very concerned about ongoing risk. And there could be no greater risk as spelled out in the draft article of what the president may do if not only in his remaining time but if he's not qualified for office. He keeps accelerating his attack on our democracy, and people are listening to him.

SCIUTTO: Robert, the myth of the first impeachment as articulated by Susan Collins was the president learned a lesson. He didn't. Granted he's leaving office in eight days.

But the question is, beyond a political stain, right, censure, and already there is a political stain, no question, but in terms of tying his hands, right, going forward, from -- well, in the next eight days, damaging U.S. national security in some way, but in the future, what is the method to prevent rather than just demean, right? To prevent future actions like this that damage the country's national security. I mean, how does censure accomplish that as opposed to barring him from running again?

RAY: I don't think censure is an empty gesture. I understand that -- Barry is correct it's not quite the same thing as an impeachment and a conviction in the Senate. I do think it's achievable, and I think it allows the country to move on.

I will say that, you know, living on the edge of impeachment is no way to conduct a presidency, let me be clear about that. So I'm profoundly disappointed to say the least about what happened here. And I think the president is starting to recognize that as well.

If you feel strongly about the fact that the president needs to be held to account, the Constitution provides a mechanism. Once he leaves office and irrespective of the outcome of an impeachment, he's subject to prosecution and trial once he's no longer president.

So if you really feel strong about that and he needs to be held to account, he can be held to in fact the criminal process. And as far --

SCIUTTO: And as the -- the D.C. -- sorry to interrupt. We're running out of time. But to your point, the D.C. attorney general said this is a path he will at least investigate.

Listen, Barry, Robert, so many issues here. I'm sure we'll keep up this conversation. Thanks so much for joining us today.

BERKE: Thank you, Jim.

RAY: Thank you very much.

HARLOW: Thank you, gentlemen. That was really important. We'll have you back soon.

On Wall Street, we're moments away from the opening bell. U.S. futures pretty flat this morning. Obviously, investors are closely watching the developments in D.C. as House Democrats move toward impeaching the president for a second time. And as the FBI warns of armed protests in the next week.

Stay with CNN for the latest.

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