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House Gears Up to Impeach Trump A Second Time Tomorrow; Trump Takes No Blame for Capitol Hill Siege; House Rules Committee Debates Bill Demanding Trump's Removal. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired January 12, 2021 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:58:12]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. Thank you so much for joining us.

The country is in the midst of what could be some of the most consequential days in American history.

First, at this very moment we're watching Capitol Hill. Right now, lawmakers are getting set to sit down to consider and debate the resolution imploring the vice president to invoke the 25th Amendment to remove the president from office. It is essentially an ultimatum. The House Rules Committee is the last stop for any measure before it heads to the House floor for a vote. That is getting underway in just a few minutes. We're going to bring that to you live. It is a critical step in that consequential week.

Later today, this very same committee will also be debating the impeachment article unveiled yesterday which will also soon be heading to the House floor. Almost assuredly making Donald Trump the only president in history to be impeached twice following the deadly siege he incited on the Capitol last week.

What will that debate look like? What will Republicans say who stood by the president pushing these lies. And remember, all of these members were also targets of the violent mob last week. We'll bring that to you.

We're also watching the president. As he emerges from seclusion for the first time since the Capitol was attacked. Just a little time ago, he spoke briefly to reporters before he was heading to the border wall and if there was any question remaining, nothing has changed. He called this impeachment effort a continuation of the greatest witch hunt in politics and then gave the empty statement at this point that he does not want violence, he says. Except that is exactly what he was promoting when he spoke to that crowd before they stormed the Capitol.

And the threat isn't over. CNN has confirmed that House Democrats were briefed last night on a handful of what it was put specific threats to come, threats to overthrow the government and even potentially kill lawmakers around Joe Biden's inauguration.

[11:00:06]

One Democratic Congressman told CNN this morning, law enforcement believes that the threats are credible and being taken very seriously.

Separately, the FBI issued a warning last night about armed protests being planned in all 50 state Capitols and in Washington, potentially beginning this weekend.

Again, as you can see, the threat is not over. And in response, Donald Trump is heading to the border wall.

Let's start on Capitol Hill. The next steps to potentially be removing Donald Trump from office, they are getting underway. CNN's Phil Mattingly has all of the details on this. So Phil, walk us through the next 24 hours. What exactly is going to happen?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, if January 6th was the attack, consider today is the start of the repercussions, the legislative repercussions. The actions that Congress particularly the Democratic-led House is going to take to try and punish a president who they believe was central to inciting what threatened many if not all of their lives for a period of time last Wednesday.

What you're going to see when the Rules Committee convenes is basically setting up the debate for that 25th Amendment legislation. Now, this doesn't necessarily have tee. It doesn't necessarily force Vice President Pence to invoke that 25th Amendment. But you framed it perfectly, Kate, when you said it implores him to do something.

It is still something that Democratic leaders are urging the vice president, urging the cabinet to take advantage of it in these final days. But they've also made very clear, that the Rules Committee will meet on later today, that is happening almost no matter what and they have the votes. That is impeachment.

What the most interesting element of what we'll see later today will be is what is the floor debate is actually going to entail. This is lightning quick for an impeachment. Nobody has even seen anything move this quickly.

In fact, the House Judiciary Committee will in a short while releasing their impeachment report which tends to coincide with an impeachment. Those turning that around in just a couple of days as well. So, we know they're going to vote on Wednesday on impeachment. We know Democratic leaders have the votes to impeach the president for a second time.

But Kate, you hit on the key thing that everybody is watching right now where the Republican Party ends up on this. In a private call last night, House Republican Kevin McCarthy made very clear, he's opposed to impeachment. He believes it is divisive, how it's more divisive than what happened on January 6th is an open question that he is more than welcome to come out and answer at any point that he wants.

But it's not necessarily where he stands. I think all eyes right now are on Liz Cheney. She's the third rank member of House Republican leadership. On that same call, she told her colleagues to vote their conscience. Now, she has not committed to whether or not she's going to vote to impeach the president but she's been very out front, very clear about her objections to what the president said, what the president did and what the president's supporters egged on leading up to January 6th.

So, watch the Republican votes right now. I've been told Democrats have been reaching out the last 24 hours to Republicans they have relationships with, trying to get them on board with this impeachment resolution, trying to almost implore them to try and punish the president in some way, shape or form and relying on something, Kate, that I've heard repeatedly from members in both chambers, members from both parties over the course of the last 24 hours just how much it is sinking in as each day goes on.

We talked about it yesterday, as you see more of the videos as you recognize the real threat, as you recognize how much danger these lawmakers were in. Hoping that helps persuade Republicans to come on board. We'll see what happens when they vote. They've got the votes. They will impeach the president on Wednesday, exactly seven days after they were attacked on the U.S. Capitol, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Phil, thank you so much. A lot is going to be happening and we'll get back to Phil and the Hill in just a second.

So, President Trump, he is emerging from hiding for the first time since inciting the deadly Capitol Hill riots and some of the first words out of his mouth are it is all a hoax. Nothing has changed with him. He's going to Alamo, Texas to visit the border wall.

Jeremy Diamond is there, and he is joining us right now. So, Jeremy, what is this all about? He did face reporters. Did not sound like he took any questions. What did he say?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well we heard from the president was making very clear that he has no regrets about the comments that he made to those thousands of supporters of his who went on to storm the Capitol last Wednesday. The president insisting that he bears no responsibility for their actions and insisting that his words were perfect. Much in the same way that he claimed that his call with the Ukrainian president, that was a perfect call before he was impeached for that call. The president now as he faces second impeachment made similar claims. Listen to what he said as he left Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is been analyzed and people thought that what I said was totally appropriate and if you look at what other people have said, politicians at a high level, about the riots during the summer, the horrible riots in Portland and Seattle and various other places, that was a real problem. What they said. But they've analyzed my speech and my words and my final paragraph, my final sentence and everybody to the teeth thought it was totally appropriate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: Now, what the president is saying there is just completely untrue. In fact, many people have analyzed his words during that rally before that riot took place on Capitol Hill.

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Legal experts in fact who have said that they believe that the president has legal exposure for what he said there. That he helped incite this riot on Capitol Hill, incite this insurrection that we saw on Capitol Hill last Wednesday. The president at the same time insisting today that he wants no violence from his supporters. But he did offer somewhat of a warning, perhaps some would interpret it as a threat when he said that the efforts to impeach him a second time is causing tremendous anger and tremendous danger - representing tremendous danger for lawmakers in Washington.

Those words quite remarkable coming from the president. And clearly, he is not hastened, and instead, as you said, Kate, he is expected to come here today. We're near Alamo, Texas, where the president is expected to come visit the border wall to mark the completion of more than 450 miles of wall trying to change the conversation clearly from what is happening back in Washington and tout one of his signature accomplishments. But even that accomplishment we should note fell short of what the president campaigned on.

He said that they would be building a thousand miles of border wall. Clearly, he fell short of that goal and also Mexico still has not paid for the wall. Instead taxpayers bearing the brunt of billions of dollars of construction. Kate?

BOLDUAN: I'm sorry. I just can't get past this. The fact that the president would pretend to say that people think that it is appropriate. He said to a tee, things what he said was appropriate. I can assure you if you have a brain in your head and I know you all do, I can assure you from the highest levels of the federal government, they don't agree. That is a lie.

They put this at the feet of the president. And I'm sorry, but that is a lie and he is delusional to say so still in public. Because as we know words matter. People who are were at the Capitol said they went to the Capitol because the president told him to. I'm sorry.

Jeremy, thank you very much.

DIAMOND: And there is a reason why we're seeing so many Republicans calling for his resignation.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Let's see if they step up and move to impeach. Appreciate it.

Let's get back to the new threats now against lawmakers and the U.S. Capitol that we're facing as we speak.

CNN's Jessica Schneider, she is joining me now. She has details on this. Jessica, what do we know about these threats? How specific are they?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. They are specific, Kate. And members of Congress are being warned about them. They were briefed about this last night and we're getting some of the details from Pennsylvania Congressman Conor Lamb.

He's told us that one of the plots consists of this. Consist of plans for 4,000 armed extremists surrounding the U.S. Capitol. And in an if effort to possibly prevent any Democrat from going in in the coming days. And this group that is organizing has apparently published rules of engagement. Namely, when they will shoot, or when they will hold back.

So, these are serious threats that are now being tackled by law enforcement. There is an organized group, Conor Lamb from Pennsylvania seems -- says that there seems to be a plan from this group. And this really dove tails to what we've seen in that internal FBI memo that we've obtained. It documents three separate types of threats.

So first of all, the FBI saying that there are calls for armed protests at 50 state Capitols beginning Saturday. And at the U.S. Capitol beginning Sunday.

Secondly, there is a group calling for members to storm government buildings if the president were to be removed from office by the 25th Amendment say before January 20th.

And finally, law enforcement is seeing a number of threats against the President-elect Joe Biden as well as the Vice President-elect Kamala Harris.

So, Kate, federal agents are monitoring all of these threats in real- time. There are hundreds tackling these threats online and otherwise. And now members of Congress are being briefed about them. And they're getting a lot of specifics about what this could potentially entail, including danger to their own lives for just trying to enter the Capitol to do their jobs here, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Jessica, thank you very much.

Joining me now is Democratic Congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio. He chairs the subcommittee that oversees the Capitol police and is investigating the response to Wednesday's attack. Congressman, were you part of that - were you briefed by the acting Capitol police chief on these new threats?

REP. RIM RYAN (D-OH): Yes, I was on the call last night. I think almost every Democratic member was on that call.

BOLDUAN: I know there is concern about how much detail is offered because of the nature of the threats and what maybe these organizers are hoping for. But did the threats include specific threats to overthrow the government to even -- I saw one report to even kill lawmakers.

RYAN: You know, these are the threats that have been around for a while. There is always been this kind of talk. But given what happened last week, given the gas that the president throws on some of these fires, I think it has got law enforcement much more concerned than they ever have been which is why if you see what is happening in D.C. right now, with the global fencing, there is going to be a very, very hard perimeter, not just around the Capitol but much wider than just the Capitol.

[11:10:11]

So, I'm confident that the numbers, the thousands and thousands of national guardsmen and law enforcement who will be around will make the Capitol safe. And I'm also very confident that the FBI and other law enforcement agencies that are out there tracking down people are doing their job as well.

So, there is a very aggressive response to this and that's about all we could say about it. We don't want to get too much into the specifics because quite frankly, a lot of the communication has dried up for a number of these people because they've been banned from some of the social media platforms like the president has.

BOLDUAN: Congressman, if you could stick with me. I do need to jump over to the Capitol. Rules Committee is getting underway. Here is the chairman of the Rules Committee. Congressman McGovern.

REP. JIM MCGOVERN (D-MA): -- to undermine the election results of multiple states. Ignoring his repeated lies in court decision after court decision. Then, the president openly called for the vice president to ignore his constitutional obligations and block the certification of Joe Biden's victory in the Congress on January 6th.

When the vice president chose his oath to the nation, over personal and private allegiances, Donald Trump led the country to a place we have never seen any president take us before. He called together an angry mob. He filled them with falsehoods and false hope. And then he sent them to the United States Capitol.

Once here, they defined support to the president led to a riot through the halls of the Capitol. With the news erected on Capitol grounds, they chanted hang Mike Pence. As some domestic terrorists in militia gear holding zip ties charged the Capitol, others looked for members of Congress. All of them were here to stop the Democratic process.

By days end, five were dead and including one police officer. Windows could be fixed, doors could be mended, hallways can be cleared, and statues could be restored. The harm to our Democracy, however, will take much longer to heal.

To begin that healing process, this Congress must bear witness to the crimes that were committed. And we must demand truth and accountability. By his actions, and inactions on January 6th, the president has proven that he is unable to discharge the duties of powers of his office.

I wish he would resign. But he is apparently unwilling to do so. It is past time for the vice president to do the right thing here. It is my hope that a strong bipartisan vote on this resolution will encourage the vice president to act to remove Donald Trump from office. Our nation, our democracy and our freedom could not risk another day of the Trump presidency.

Now let me turn to our ranking member for any comments he wishes to make.

REP. TOM COLE (R-OK): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, before I turn to my formal comments, I want to -- I know speaking for everybody on the committee but certainly everybody on our side of the committee to tell Mr. Raskin how much we grieve for him for his loss and how much we admire him for continuing to perform his duties under unimaginably difficult circumstances. We don't always agree on issues but there is nobody I admire more as a person and who will set a better example of how to carry on under the most extraordinarily difficult circumstances than the gentleman from Maryland.

So, Jamie, just God be with you and your family. Please know we're all praying for you. We all support you. We're all proud of you for being here and continuing to perform your important constitutional functions, again, under extraordinarily difficult circumstances. God be with you, my friend.

Mr. Chairman, today as you've said is a very sad day for all of us. It is not at all how I thought the opening of 117th Congress would begin. And I associate myself with how strongly everybody feels about what happened last Wednesday. It was a horrific day. An unacceptable day in American history. And a sobering day. And one full of tragedy that now will cast a long shadow over the Congress in the weeks and months and frankly years ahead.

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Sadly, we're here today again on a grave matter. We're meeting to discuss HRS 21, a resolution sponsored by Rules Committee colleague and friend, Congressman Raskin. This resolution calls on Vice President Pence to convene the officers of the cabinet and invoke Section 4 of the 25th Amendment declaring the president of the United States incapable of executing duties of his office.

While I gravely respect my friend, I think this resolution is misguided and inappropriate for the legislative branch to pursue. Under the 25th Amendment to the Constitution, responsibility for initiating the process for making a determination as to whether or not the president is unable to fulfill his or her duties lies solely with the vice president. There is no role for Congress absent a dispute between the president and the vice president and cabinet over his or her ability to fulfill those duties. And though Congress may designate another body besides this, the cabinet to exercise its power, to date it has not done so nor is it achieved by this resolution.

With today's resolution, the majority is asking the House to assume a power it does not have. The House has no role in initiating Section 4 of the 25th Amendment. Not even through a nonbinding resolution. And we should not pretend otherwise.

Instead that power lies with the vice president and the cabinet. I have to say that during last Wednesday's events Vice President Pence showed sound judgment. His performance was above reproach. He fulfilled his oath of office and acted in a manner befitting his constitutional role as vice president. We should call this resolution what it is. A transparent attempt to pressure the vice president into performing a duty he doesn't believe is necessary at this time. The vice president has not done what the majority are wants him to do. So, they're pushing forward this resolution in an attempt to make him execute the House's will.

Our strong faith in Vice President Pence and believe he will consider his constitutional duty in the same manner that he carries out all other constitutional duties. In a forthright manner that fulfills his oath of office. Should he believe that the 25th Amendment needs to be invoked, I have faith that the Vice President Pence both as a leader and as a former House colleague would exercise good judgment with respect to performing that duty. Again, Vice President Pence's record of sound judgment in times of crisis should speak for all of us on this issue.

Last Wednesday's events were deeply troubling for the nation Mr. Chairman. There is no one joining this meeting today who condones the violent and destructive actions of the mob that stormed the Capitol last week, sought to harm innocent lives and disrupt democracy at work.

Indeed, it never should have happened. And I could not condemn the lawless perpetrators of the crime strongly enough. And I know that we are all committed to ensuring justice served to the fullest extent of the law. However, I believe the resolution before the committee today will not achieve the desired result. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

MCGOVERN: The gentleman yields back and I appreciate his remarks. I want to recognize our first panel but first I also want to join with Mr. Cole and I think I speak for everybody on this committee when I say to my good colleague Mr. Raskin how he and his wife sally have been in our prayers over these last several days. And you have been a great inspiration to all of us by continuing to show up to do this important work. But also, your son Tommy has been an inspiration and his legacy continues to be incredible with all of the acts of kindness that people are doing in his honor. And all of the great causes that people are supporting. So, I appreciate that very much. But I want to now recognize the gentleman from Maryland, Mr. Raskin as well as the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Jordan will be our first panel and I yield to Mr. Raskin.

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Mr. Chairman, thank you for your extremely thoughtful and loving remarks. Thank you to you and every member of this committee. Everyone has reached out to me and to Sarah and to our family in this moment of terrible heartbreak and grief for us and we really are -- our family here on the Rules Committee, Mr. Cole, I am moved beyond words for your tender thoughts and I treasure your friendship and I always have.

And in recognition of that, I'm not even going to respond to your comments for a few minutes. I'm going to talk about some other stuff and then I'm going to come and try to refute your always dangerously logical and precise arguments.

[11:20:00]

But I think I got some reputations of things that you were saying and I do hope that our whole committee on both sides will think of this resolution as a way to bring not just the committee but the whole House of Representatives together in making clear that what took place is absolutely intolerable and unacceptable and it is critical for us now to make clear that this was an absolute dereliction of presidential duty.

It is very clear that the president did not discharge the proper duties of office. And I suppose when we come to discuss impeachment, there might be some differences in assignment of the degree of fault, blame and responsibility that will be laid at the foot of the president, but I think that this -- for the purposes of this resolution, we can all agree that the conduct of the executive branch fell dramatically below the constitutional standards set forth for the president.

Now, there are three ways to protect the nation against a president whose conduct poses a clear and present danger to the people. The first of course is to defeat him in an election. And the American people just did that in November of 2020, catapulting Joe Biden to a greater than 7 million vote victory over President Trump and delivering him a 306 to 232 electoral college victory margin that President Trump had described as a landslide when he won by the exact same numbers in 2016.

So, the people have done. This people have already accomplished. Indeed, President Trump's persistence and refusal to accept these election results and this outcome and his determination to discredit and nullify and overturn the election results that has led us to the current national crisis.

The second way to remove a president who has proven himself a danger to the republic and to the people, is to impeach him in the House for having committed high crimes and misdemeanors within the meaning of the Constitution and then trying him in the Senate.

This is too a familiar mechanism that the committee knows well and you'll remember the marathon 10-hour session that our former colleague Doug Collins and I had back in December of 2019 when we voted to bring to the floor articles of impeachment relating to the president's efforts to pressure a foreign government to get involved in the 2020 presidential campaign here in the United States and to smear Vice President Joe Biden.

Now, the final mechanism for removing a president who --

MCGOVERN: Jamie, you need to unmute.

RASKIN: The final mechanism for removing the president, who is failing to meet the most basic duties of his office and indeed actually harming the Republic with his conduct is the 25th Amendment.

Now the whole purpose of the 25th Amendment which is adopted in 1967 is to defend the stability of the public and to guarantee that the safe continuity of governmental operations at very highest levels. It was adopted to several years after the assassination after John F. Kennedy and in fact, his brother Robert F. Kennedy was one of the key legislative actors pushing it along with Senator Byrne.

But it was passed on an overwhelming bipartisan basis at the dawn of the nuclear age because questions of physical and mental fitness were prominent in the minds of Americans at that point. And as they often said, we have 535 members of Congress and if something goes wrong for one of them or two of them or a dozen of them, the Congress will keep functioning.

But we only have one president of the United States. And if that president is unable to successfully discharge the duties in the power of office, that becomes a crisis for the entire Republic. Contrary to popular believe, the 25th Amendment has been activated and employed numerous times since it was adopted back in '67.

Section 1 which established that the vice president becomes president in the event of a presidential vacancy. It was used when President Nixon resigned, and Gerald Ford became president. Before that point, it was unclear whether the vice president was actually becoming the president or just exercising the powers of president. And it was the 25th Amendment that settled that question in section one.

[11:25:11]

Section 2 established the way to fill a vacant vice presidency and that took place when, for example, Spiro Agnew resigns as vice president and then President Nixon followed the provisions of section 2 and nominated Gerald Ford and he was ratified by a majority vote in both Houses of Congress.

Now, Section 3, I like to think of is the section that deals with the famous Presidential Holman because it has been used when Ronald Reagan underwent colorectal surgery and he voluntarily temporarily transferred the powers of his office to George Herbert Walker Bush and then after that incapacity end he by letter resumed the powers of the office.

President George W. Bush himself invoked Section 3 in transferring the powers of his office to then Vice President Dick Cheney when President Bush underwent a colonoscopy. And it is been using several times in the context of colonoscopy and other surgeries.

But today we're looking at Section 4 which we are asking the vice president to invoke by activating and mobilizing the cabinet, to declare what is patently obvious to a horrified and anxious nation. The president is not even minimally discharging the basic duties of his office.

Now my friend Mr. Cole said that in drafting and adopting such a resolution would be operating outside of the proper legislative sphere under the 25th Amendment. On the contrary, if you go back and look at the legislative history of the 25th Amendment, it was deeply intended by Senator Byrne and Senator Kennedy and all of the members who are involved in it to promote collaboration among the different branches to guarantee the stability of government in the continuity in office.

Now Mr. Cole is right that it is up to the vice president and we're not trying to usurp his authority in any way. We are trying to tell him that the time of 25th Amendment emergency has arrived. It is come to our doorstep. It is invaded our chamber. We just saw the unprecedented event of hundreds or even thousands of members of a mob entering the Congress of the United States without going through metal detectors or any kind of security screening, occupying the floors of the Senate and the House, occupying the offices of our leaders, chanting hang Mike Pence, yelling where is Nancy.

Many of them were brandishing weapons, guns, knives, some of them have zip ties to handcuff people's hands. We were delayed in the counting of the Electoral College vote by more than six hours. Members, staff, families, citizens across the country were terrified and horrified by what took place. And no amount of euphemism will displace on anyone's part across the country will ever let us forget what took place on that day.

Now, the president of the United States on January 6th, and indeed in the several months leading up to it, violated his oath of office by doing everything in his power to thwart and defeat the proper counting of the Electoral College vote on January 6th. He did everything in his power to overturn the popular results of the election in critical swing states such as take for example Georgia. Which Joe Biden won by 11,779 votes. A number I remember because the president called secretary of state Brad Raffensperger and said all I need you to do is find me 11,780 votes. One vote more and then I'll be able to win.

So, what took place with us on January 6th and dear colleagues was the culmination of a process of an attack on the presidential election and the assembly and counting of the Electoral College votes. And of course, President Trump called secretary of state Raffensperger an enemy of the people for refusing to overturn the election results even after a statewide recount reconfirmed the initial counts.

And as everyone knows, President Trump called Raffensperger on the phone saying that he was committing a criminal offense, that this was very risky for him and all I want to do is I just want you to find 11,780 votes.