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Live: House Rules Committee Debates Bill Demanding Trump's Removal; CNN: As Many As 10 House Republicans Could Break Ranks And Vote For Impeachment; GOP Representative Liz Cheney Calls Impeachment A "Vote Of Conscience"; Impeachment Moves Forward As FBI Warns of Potential Inauguration Violence; Pelosi, Top Democrats Meet With Acting Capitol Police Chief And Acting Sergeant At Arms About Security Threats. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired January 12, 2021 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

REP. NORMA TORRES (D-CA): I say the smoke from the tear gas having been deployed. And I watched one officer with no protective equipment face a raging mob just outside the chamber. We crawled across the entire length of that balcony.

I was in the last group to be evacuated. We ran down the halls, stairs and near a mob that was being held on the ground at gunpoint. I sheltered for four to five hours in a room that was packed shoulder- to-shoulder with people.

Adding more trauma to the riot we had just survived were several Republican colleagues refusing to wear a mask. As a result, many of my dear colleagues and friends have tested positive. I'm awaiting my results. I know some of you have similar experiences the horror didn't care what chamber you served in. But I do know that in the balcony it was Democrats and members of the press.

Ask yourselves, is gunfire in a speaker's lobbying a new normal that you're willing to accept? Should ransacked offices be part of the job going forward, a relic from our time and service that future members will have to deal with? And if it's not, ask yourselves, what are you willing to do about it? Do you have the courage to stand up for basic American principles?

The Raskin Resolution is not a political document, it takes no partisan position. And anyone who says otherwise is being irresponsible and is continuing to advance a hateful agenda of Donald Trump. How dare you! How dare you incite a mob to stop the final step in certifying our election simply because they want to pick and choose whose vote should count and whose vote should not count?

It calls on one man with the power to protect all of us, our institution, from this increasingly authoritarian president to do just that, invoke the 25th amendment and live up to the oath that he swore. Given the news of impeding armed protests here and at every Capitol across our country this coming week Vice President Pence's action cannot come soon enough. Consider the full gravity of the attack last week. Yes, it was an

attack on Democrat lawmakers on this beloved building and on Vice President Pence. They wanted to hang him. The congress was convened last Wednesday for the ceremonial certification of our election results. So this was also an attack on our democracy.

It was an attack on the peaceful transfer of power, an attack on our constitution and the rule of law. It was an attack on the symbolism that we've provided to the entire world that a people can govern themselves without the threat of force or the violence and it was an attack that almost worked.

All of us have a role to play in undoing the damage that President Trump has done. I urge my colleagues. When I was finally evacuated at 3:00 pm and while running for my life I answered my phone to my son Christopher. The call lasted 27 seconds. All I could say sweetheart, I'm OK. I'm running for my life and I hung up.

[12:05:00]

TORRES: I urge my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to join me in supporting this resolution, but most of all, I urge Vice President Pence to do the right thing not for you sir, not for me, not for any one of us here in congress but for the future of America. We are counting on you to do the right thing and invoke the 25th amendment and I yield back.

REP. JIM MCGOVERN (D-MA): I thank the gentlewoman. I know--

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: An emotional account there, Congresswoman Norma Torres Democrat of California recounting her horror last Wednesday when the rioters seized the Unites States Capitol and to the United States Capitol appealing to the Vice President of United States to invoke the 25th amendment to remove President Trump from office in his final days.

Hello to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing this very busy and very important day with us. What you were watching right there a critical committee session, part of the House Democratic effort to set up a pair of key votes in the Capitol.

The first on what Norma Torres, the Congresswomen they were just discussing a democratic effort to pressure, to prod Vice President Mike Pence to invoke the 25th amendment the second on another Trump impeachment over the U.S. capitol insurrection. The president's words this morning only add to the urgency of the democratic push now to remove him in his final days.

In his first public appearances since a mob of his supporters ransacked the United States Capitol, the president said he wants no more violence but missing was any contrition. Instead the President of the United States defending the indefensible saying his send-off to the march on that Capitol was pitch perfect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: What I said was totally appropriate and if you look at what other people have said, politicians at a high level about the riots during the summer, the horrible riots in Portland and Seattle and various other places that was a real problem what they said. But they've analyzed my speech and my words and my final paragraph, my final sentence and everybody to the key thought it was totally appropriate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Everybody or just about anybody anyway of course says just the opposite. The president argues Democrats not him and not his election conspiracy lies are the problem here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It's really a continuation of the greatest witch hunt in the history of politics. It's ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. This impeachment is causing tremendous anger and you're doing it and it's really a terrible thing that they're doing.

For Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer to continue on this path I think it's causing tremendous danger to our country and it's causing tremendous anger. I want no violence. Thank you very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Joining us now to share their reporting and their insights on this important day, CNN's Manu Raju, CNN's Kaitlan Collins and CNN's Abby Phillip. Manu, I want to start with you. We just listened to very emotional testimony from one of the democratic members of congress trapped in that building.

A trap in that building during the riots saying essentially Republicans need to stand up and admit that they participated in these lies helping the president spread his election lies imploring the vice president to do something we don't believe he will do bring the cabinet together to remove the president.

This is part of a two-step process that will unless something dramatic changes in this town lead tomorrow to a vote, the second vote to impeach this President of the United States, Donald Trump.

Tell us where we are exactly now in the process and one of the giant questions is how many Republicans will have the courage to step forward and vote yes? Did the president hurt his case today by saying everything he said last week was totally appropriate?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Republicans are completely divided about how to respond given the vast majority if not all of the House Republican Conference other than maybe a few have marched in lockstep with this president over the last four years have been very loyal to him and some have been more critical than others about the president inciting that mob attack.

You heard Jim Jordan, one of the president's chief defenders just now not condemning the president, being pressed repeatedly about whether he thinks the election was free and fair. He would not say that explicitly without giving some qualification to it so some Republicans like Jordan, who tried to overturn the election results in congress are going to continue to side with the president.

Others are concerned and trying to figure out other ways to express their displeasure, including a possible push for a censure resolution not impeachment, but censure that is not what Nancy Pelosi is going to do though and other Republicans may vote for impeachment.

[12:10:00]

RAJU: We are hearing potentially maybe around ten, maybe more maybe less could vote to impeach this president and this is much different than 2019. At that time House Republican leaders were whipping their colleagues telling them to fall in line to vote against the Democrats' impeachment of Donald Trump over charges of abuse of power and obstruction of congress.

This on the charge of inciting an insurrection is different. House Republican leaders I'm told are not whipping their members. They're letting them vote their conscience. That's something that Liz Cheney the number three Republican said, she considered it of herself a vote of conscious or other Republicans will as well.

So John, uncertain how many will break ranks? A vast majority will side with the president but some of vote with the Democrats make Donald Trump this only president to be impeached twice by tomorrow John.

KING: And Kaitlan, the president this is the first time we've heard from him and obviously he can't talk to us on Twitter anymore. He can't talk to us on Facebook anymore because those organizations have decided his words too often are lies and incite violence and incite hate.

So the president came out for the first time this morning. Forgive me I guess we should not be surprised but this is Charlottesville 2.0 or Trump 8.0 totally appropriate? That's what people are telling him? Who?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, he didn't list any names notably, when he was talking about people who've analyzed what he said on their lips on Wednesday compared to of course, what the actual reaction in real-time has been.

But we've heard from people in their own words even Republicans, as Manu was just noting but the president's behavior has become entirely predictable at this point. When something like this happened because we saw with Access Hollywood, we saw with - we saw with - that you call the Ukrainian leader, and now we are seeing with this in the final days of his presidency really ending the way that it started where the president - this is likely something you probably would have tweeted a few days ago if he could still tweet.

But he comes out and he cites anonymous people say that they believe his call was completely appropriate. He takes no responsibility for what happened last week, even though members of his own White House and members of his own party have condemned the president, have criticized over that, have said they would vote to impeach him.

And even some of them have called on him to resign over the role that he played and what we saw happen on the Capitol last week. And so this is completely predictable from the president but also we're seeing a lot of predictable behavior from Republicans too we should note because that was the first time we've heard from the president since Wednesday.

He's going to Texas to visit the border wall. One person we should know that is flying with the president John is Senator Lindsey Graham who of course gave that very dramatic floor speech last week on the Senate floor saying that he'd had a hell of a journey with Donald Trump but given what had gone on he said it was time to count him out because enough was enough and now he is flying on air force one with the president.

KING: A hard for a sycophant to quit I guess. Get more trips on Air Force One. So Abby Philip, I want you to join the conversation. But before so, there are a lot of people out there including people who voted for the president who think that we are anti-Trump. No, we are pro-truth and we need to hold a new administration to the same standard.

The president said his speech was totally appropriate. He says people are telling him that. In that speech he said he was worried about Mike Pence. He said we have to remove send up to Capitol Hill people to get rid of the weak congress people and specifically in these remarks where he said so many people have told him were totally appropriate. He talked about the end of his speech. Let's listen to the end of his speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We fight like hell and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. We're going to the Capitol and we're going to try and give - the Democrats are hopeless they're never voting for anything.

Not even one vote but we're going to try and give our Republicans the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help. We're going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: There is no cure for him. There is no cure for him. The question of the moment in American politics is how many Republicans will stand up and say Mr. President, what you said at that rally was wrong. Mr. President what your supporters did after that rally was reprehensible. Mr. President, you are accountable and especially now, if you're going to say that, we have to vote to remove you or to impeach you and to forever scar you. ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Unfortunately, I think the

answer is obviously not that much. What Kaitlan just brought up about Lindsey Graham traveling on Air Force One with the president is really emblematic of the problem here. People like Lindsey Graham and there are many others around him still think that they can reason with this president and they can guide him along into a better behavior.

But that's been the strategy all along and it led to what happened last Wednesday so there is a real problem with the Republican Party not being willing to stand up to the president but also specifically to the president's supporters.

[12:15:00]

PHILLIP: Still even to this day, not being willing to say the truth which is that there was never a chance after the election was certified all the way back in December that the results could be overturned that Mike Pence could defy his constitutional duties. Even to this day, many Republicans are still not willing to say that.

KING: And to that point Manu Raju, Abby says even to this day one of the things we watch as the Democrats go through these proceedings number one on the resolution asking Mike Pence to invoke the 25th amendment then the impeachment debate is what do the Republicans say?

You noted at the top Liz Cheney, the number three Republican says that lawmakers in the House should vote their conscience. To me that is a green light, that's almost a nudge for Republicans to stand up and vote to impeach the president so we look every day.

Will Republicans including those like Jim Jordan who after the riots on the Capitol still voted to uphold a lie. They voted to support a lie. The president had a chance in court after court after court and his case for fraud failed. So Jim McGovern the Chairman of the Committee tries to get Jim Jordan to say the election was free and fair. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCGOVERN: I'm asking you to make a statement that the election was not stolen that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won fair and square.

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): He won the election because the way the process works is the last chance to object is January 6th.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: And Congressman Jordan continued to say during that hearing that there were unconstitutional things in the states and that that's all those Republicans were doing up on Capitol Hill. Again, court after court after court after court and I could go on threw all that out on the Republicans. So do we are not seeing a big change of heart from the president's most ardent supporters in the House?

RAJU: No, absolutely not. They are defiant even though as they're facing an enormous backlash by corporate America, by some of their own supporters. What they're hearing about from back home about their role in this effort and some of them even participating in that rally that eventually led to the violent mob that came here last week. So those Trump loyalists they're not budging at all.

They're going to stand by the president. The question is those Republicans in the middle we mentioned some in the House. The question also will be when the Senate comes time to decide whether or not to vote to convict this president? The timing is complicated because this president only has a week and eight days left in office here and what will happen in terms of the Senate trial?

Likely that trial will not begin until the early days of the Biden term and then 17 Republicans will have to decide to vote to convict Donald Trump after he left office in order to prevent him from running for office again. Uncertain John, if we're going to get to 17 Republicans? Only two have called on him to resign.

There are a number of others who are very concerned about his behavior presumably could vote to convict. Will there be 17, though? That's going to be question on the days ahead and just notably John; Nancy Pelosi would not comment just moments ago about when they would actually transmit those articles of impeachment over to the Senate?

And that would actually prompt the trial to begin the next day so some questions about how that process will play out here as Democrats move to impeach tomorrow?

KING: And Kaitlan Collins, finally after days of them not speaking and the president of course never call to check in on the vice president during that riot some of his own supporters chanting that they were going after Mike Pence when they went to the United States Capitol. They finally did have a meeting yesterday.

For those watching who think would the vice president invoke the 25th amendment, that appears increasingly to be no, right? Do these two men have they found peace day time or how would we describe it?

COLLINS: I'm not sure I would describe it as peace given that it's been less than a week since all of this transpired and what we even heard from Senate Republicans was that the vice president was angry. That is basically never how the vice president has been described in the last four years and the way that he has navigated this relationship with Donald Trump.

So it really does speak to how the vice president was feeling given that he was dealing with everything and also the president's responsibility in what happened last week? But this does mean, as we reported over the weekend we did not think this was likely that the vice president is incredibly unlikely to actually take a step to galvanize the cabinet invoke the 25th amendment to strip the president of his power no matter how much Democrats want to see that.

But notably of course we've still never seen the vice president put out a statement saying I'm not going to do this. Typically, that is something that you would see in the past, that is something that he is not done. We are told that is intentional by people around the vice president that he hasn't actually put that statement out yet.

But it is notable that they finally did speak after several days of silence probably the longest stretch in their entire relationship that they had not spoken. But the other thing that we got from that is that the president is not stepping down despite these hopes that he is going to resign before his term ends a little over a week from today they said they are going to serve out the remainder of their term.

So Donald Trump is not going to leaving office which of course means neither is the vice president until next week.

KING: And we continue to watch as events unfold including today on Capitol Hill as Democrats move ahead with this process of control culmination likely tomorrow on impeachment Abby Philip, Kaitlan Collins and Manu Raju grateful for the reporting and insights.

We continue the conversation ahead even as they deal with impeachment members of congress now getting sensitive briefings on new threats against the Capitol as we get closer to the inauguration.

[12:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Washington already shaken by the violent attack on the U.S. Capitol now being warned by the FBI in that far right extreme of - and organizing armed protests leading up to and including inauguration day next week.

Last hour the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and top Democrats met with the acting Capitol Police Chief and the Acting Sergeant in Arms about those threats and the Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer says there is an all-Senator briefing this afternoon with the Defense Department, Homeland Security and the secret service also about inauguration safety, security and planning CNN's Evan Perez tracking all of this for us at the Justice Department. It is a very tense time.

[12:25:00]

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: It is John, and I think part of their issue for the investigators is that this has now become a sprawling nationwide investigation with the FBI certainly and other agencies following thousands and thousands of lead to try to figure out what to expect from the coming days?

You mentioned the FBI bulletin that went out in the last 24 hours that talked about the potential for violence in all 50 states. And in particular some armed potential protests here in Washington perhaps triggered by the fact that the Democrats are trying to impeach or remove the president.

All of those things are part of the caldron that the investigators are dealing with. We also have a new report from "The Washington Post" that talks about some of the intelligence that came before Wednesday's events talking about the potential for war. Again, there were plenty of warnings. The question is why didn't they do anything about it? We know there is some concerns from lawmakers. You heard from Conor Lamb on some of this. Take a listen to his concerns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CONOR LAMB (D-PA): They're talking about 4000 armed of patriots to surround the Capitol and prevent any Democrat from going in and they have published rules of engagement, meaning when you shoot and when you don't. So this is an organized group that has a plan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: And John, what we're dealing with now and certainly what the FBI and the Justice Department is dealing with now is a new kind of radicalization, one that I think they've been kind of hesitant to grapple with because it is domestic in nature. It's not frankly, not unlike what we saw from Islamic terrorist groups ISIS and so on.

The problem John and you know this is what to do about it? The laws post-9/11 were set up to deal with foreign terrorist groups. The idea that you might have as the congressman there talked about groups that are planning to storm the Capitol and have this sort of organization structure that is much more difficult to deal with.

KING: Incredibly difficult to deal with and of course we wish these law enforcement officials the best as they go through it a lot looking forward to worry about and a lot of questions to answer looking in the rearview mirror as well Evan Perez of the Justice Department, grateful again for the reporting, important reporting that FBI bulletin as giant concerns as Evan just noted there and complications to inaugural week security preparations.

Preparations that now already include plans to deploy 15,000 national guard troops an emergency declaration for Washington, D.C., special secret service security operations, fencing around the Capitol perimeter and 200 NYPD officers coming to Washington to assist operations.

Joining me now to discuss this Louisiana Congressmen Cedric Richmond, he is also a Co-Chair of the Biden Inaugural. He will resign his seat soon to become a senior advisor in the Biden White House. Congressmen, it is good to see you. I am grateful for your time today.

So you have several different roles here, one just as a sitting member of the House of Representatives working in a building that was terrorized last week. But also in your role now, A, worrying about your safety every day you come to work to vote I know you're at home in Louisiana right now, but also you work with the inauguration.

What will be changed already this was scaled back. As you get briefed on these threats what will have to be dialed back even more because of the worries?

REP. CEDRIC RICHMOND (D-LA), PRESIDENTIAL INAUGURAL COMMITTEE CO- CHAIR: Look, first thing we want to do is make sure that the American public can participate and that's why we've gone out of our way to make sure that there are so many virtual components to it.

And then the second part is we want to make sure that the participants, the dignitaries and of course the president-elect and vice president-elect's families and members of congress are safe as we have a peaceful transition of power but that requires coordination.

And the biggest failure that I've seen so far is that the United States Senate has not held hearings on the new Secretary of Homeland Security, Mr. Mayorkas, who would at 12:01 be responsible for a whole of government approach to making sure that these Capitols are safe around the country and to make sure that D.C. is safe.

And so every - almost every Homeland Security Secretary has been confirmed on the first day and that was in 2009 and in 2017. So the fact that the Senate is not holding a hearing so that we can confirm our national security members on day one is irresponsible to the American public.

KING: As someone who is working for Joe Biden at the same time you're still in the House under the Speaker Nancy Pelosi we heard the president-elect say yesterday, he hopes the Senate can essentially have half-days, right?

You mentioned already the backlog, the Senate not moving quickly in advance to be ready for the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Secretary of State for example, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of Treasury usually the ones they try to get done early. So you can get the top-- at least the top members of the team in on day one.

The president-elect is clearly concerned you will have an impeachment trial in the Senate perhaps in his earliest days in office and can other business get done, the confirmations hearing, a new stimulus plan.