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Official Says, No National Mall Access on Inauguration Day; Source Says, Allies Advised Trump He Needed to Forcefully Condemn All Violence or He Will Own It; America on High Alert as Threat of Armed Protests Grows. Aired 1-1:30p ET
Aired January 14, 2021 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:01]
JOHN KING, CNN HOST: I appreciate your time on this day. I hope to see you back here this time tomorrow. A busy news day, please stay with us. Brianna Keilar picks up our coverage right now. Have a good day.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Hi there, I'm Brianna Keilar, and I want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world, as we are watching the fallout from the historic of second impeachment of President Donald Trump and the deadly riot on the Capitol.
Washington now, looks like a fortress. 20,000 National Guard troops are on alert responding to threats of another insurrection this time possibly with more firepower behind it. Federal officials are warning that extremists are now more emboldened to carry out attacks after what happened at the Capitol last week.
And now this breaking news, CNN has learned that authorities have arrested this man seen carrying a confederate flag through the halls of the Capitol during last week's riot. Kevin Seefried of Delaware has been identified as this person.
And in the meantime, police have arrested a man accused of striking a U.S. Capitol police officer with a fire extinguisher during the January 6th riots. The criminal complained identifies the man in this video as Robert Sanford. He's a retired Chester Pennsylvania firefighter. And in the video Sanford is seen wearing a dark plaid shirt and a backpack. He picks up what appears to be a fire extinguisher off the ground. Moments later, he throws it at a group of police officers nearby. It hit one officer square on the back of the helmet with such force that it bounced off the helmet and over the other officers.
Now, the scenes around Capitol Hill are pretty eye-popping right now. There is huge fencing that is ringing the area, there are thousands of these National Guard troops that are on alert, and our Pete Muntean is there right now. Pete, tell us what you're seeing.
PETE MUNTEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, it's a little bit jarring, in fact. You know, this is a spot along Constitution Avenue in Pennsylvania that would typically be teeming with people leading up to an inauguration. Now, the crowds will be replaced by this giant fence here. I am six feet tall. This is almost eight feet tall, pretty hard to scale. And on the other side of it, if you did make it to the other side, are some of the 20,000 members of the National Guard here descending on Washington right now, more arriving by the minute.
The threat here is very real, according to the Secret Service, which is leading this massive security operation. It is worried about more copycat attacks. It is following new chatter online. And the Pentagon says it is worried about more improvised explosive devices, like those pipe bombs found at the RNC and the DNC. The head of the Metropolitan Washington Police Department says the threat here is very real and Americans should not come to Washington for this inauguration. Here is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ACTING CHIEF ROBERT CONTEE, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT: As the Mayor has encouraged residents, as she has encouraged visitors from around the country, we're not asking people to come to D.C. for this. There is a major security threat and we are working to mitigate those threats. So, again, we are just very intently focused on the job that's at hand.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MUNTEAN: Take a look at this, Brianna. This is Pennsylvania Avenue. This would be the parade route from the Capitol to the White House, right now completely deserted and it will stay this way. Access to the National Mall, very limited leading up to this inauguration day like no other.
KEILAR: It is quite the scene to behold. Pete, thank you so much for taking us there.
Federal investigators are looking at signs that the deadly Capitol insurrection may have been planned and that it was not just a protest that spawned an insurrection.
CNN Senior Justice Correspondent Evan Perez is with me now. Evan, what more are you learning?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna, the investigators are being driven in this direction by some of the evidence that we haven't seen. They are taking a look at indications, for instance, and evidence that shows that certain people who left the rally, the Trump rally, at the ellipse outside of the White House and made their way to perhaps their cars or some other place where they had left some of these weapons that then they used to storm the Capitol.
There were things that you couldn't get close to the White House with because you had to leave backpacks and everything else because of the security there, and they were able to bring things like crowbars and sledgehammers and climbing ropes. There were indications that people clearly had tactical gear that they had trained to be able to use. And you can see some of the videos that have now been made public that the FBI is taking a closer look at that indicates you can tell from the people who were talking about, what they were trying to do, that they had some foreknowledge and some plan of action. Take a listen to this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, guys, I've been in the other room, listen to me. In the other room on the other side of this door, right here where these feet are standing. There is a glass that if somebody, and if it's broken, you can drop down into a room underneath it.
[13:05:03]
There're also two doors in the other room, one in the rear and one to the right when you go in. So, people should probably coordinate together if you're going to take this building.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PEREZ: And, Brianna, there are tons of other videos like this at the FBI is trying to authenticate. They want to find these people. They want to talk to them to try to understand, again, looking at travel records, looking at money to see what level of coordination there was. Perhaps there were multiple groups with the same aim, and that's where this case is now being investigated.
KEILAR: And federal officials, Evan, are also warning that domestic extremists are likely emboldened now to carry out more attacks. Tell us about this.
PEREZ: Yes, that's right. The fact that this attack was successful, what it does is it gives the idea to other extremists out there that this is something they can do and perhaps do even better if they plan ahead. It also gives them the idea that there are other people that they can connect to. And so that's one of the things that the FBI, the Secret Service, everybody is very, very cognizant and they're very worried about in the coming days.
KEILAR: Evan, thank you so much, great reporting. Thank you for sharing it with us.
My next guest has been sounding the alarm on the threat of domestic terrorism for more than a decade. And he warns that the Capitol attack is ushering in a new period of violence and hostility, that the attack was not a finale for right-wing extremists who support Trump. Daryl Johnson is a former Senior Domestic Terrorism Analyst at the Department of Homeland Security. He is also Author of the book, Hateland, A Long, Hard Look at America's Extremist Heart.
So explain this to us, if you could. You say this is not a finale. Why?
DARYL JOHNSON, FORMER SENIOR DOMESTIC TERRORISM ANALYST, DHS: Yes. So this momentum has been building over years and months. Like you said, I wrote a report back in 2009 warning of this threat. And it's basically gone unheeded for ten years or more.
And so what has happened is these people have latched on to conspiracy theories and the false notion that the 2020 election was rigged and that it was rampant with voter fraud and that it was stolen from them. And so this narrative has incited and radicalized more people on the far right, and so they're agitated to the point where they're going to be committed to this campaign for the next four years.
KEILAR: The FBI is investigating, Daryl, whether the siege of the Capitol was planned. We just heard that report from Evan Perez. What does it look like to you from the evidence that you're seeing?
JOHNSON: So, definitely, there was a lot of chatter leading up to the events last week, talking about violence, talking about storming the Capitol. The FBI had even warned the Capitol police supposedly, according to media reports. So this event wasn't a spontaneous thing that happened, although I think that the president's remarks that day did incite people to go forward with their plans.
KEILAR: We know that a number of police officers from across the country took part in the attack. We know that former members of the military were involved. There were reports of at least one active duty member of the military, a Special Forces officer taking part, and investigators say they're looking into whether more current members of the military were involved. What does that tell you?
JOHNSON: Well, that was one of the things I warned about in 2009 and I got quite a bit of criticism over, and this is the notion of returning veterans coming back in being targeted for recruitment by these groups. And, in fact, in 2009, we saw the formation of an extremist organization called the Oath Keepers with sole mission is to recruit military veterans and police officers into the ranks of these groups. So it boosts their violent capability, it boosts their sophistication in how they communicate and plan these types of attacks.
KEILAR: Daryl Johnson, thank you so much for being with us.
JOHNSON: You're welcome.
KEILAR: So, the president's fate is now in the hands of the Senate as the Republicans are holding their cards close to the vest on whether they will convict him and potentially keep him from running again in 2024.
Plus, new reporting on the president's reluctance to tape these videos where he denounces violence, and why he's refusing to pay Rudy Giuliani's legal fees.
This is CNN special live coverage.
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KEILAR: Irritated and isolated, that is how President Trump is feeling, according to sources, now that he's been impeached twice, the only president in U.S. history to be in this position. It was bipartisan rebuke this time, a handful of Republican lawmakers joining with Democrats after he incited the insurrection at the Capitol.
And now we're learning about just how much effort it took to get Trump to make a new video that condemned the violence.
And joining me now, we have CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent Dana Bash. Dana, tell us what your resources are saying.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, that it was a full court press to try to get the president to make the video. It took quite some time. This was done by aides and allies alike, everybody from Mark Meadows, his chief of staff, to Jared Kushner his adviser and, of course, his son-in-law, to Lindsey Graham, who is an ally of his who definitely condemned him on the Senate floor and then raised eyebrows by going with him to Texas on Tuesday. This was part of his mission to try to get him to condemn the violence.
And I was told, according to one source familiar with one of the many conversations, is that the president was told that if he didn't and something else happened, quote, you will own it, that the president was told, quote, silence is not an option and he needs to break the cycle.
[13:15:08]
Now, he, the president was resistant, and that was pretty obvious, right, Brianna, by the first two videos that he released where he didn't go far enough at all to condemn the violence. That took a while for the president to absorb this. But I'm told there were two points that appeared to get through to him in the end. One is, again, that he will own it, and that he needs to make a hard break. And the second is that he owes his supporters who are not part of the violence to separate -- for him to separate them from the people who perform this act, this act of domestic terrorism, and that people who voted for him feel lumped in with them.
And you know, the other question that I have been asking and I'm sure you have too, Bri, is, well okay, what about the next step, saying, finally, the election was free and fair, it wasn't stolen. I am told that was a nonstarter with this president because we know a key part of his character and what he was thought by his father and other people close to him, like Roy Cohn, is that never admit that you lost. You don't want to appear as a loser, and that is why he has been grasping on anything, lie after lie after a lie, to hang his hat on to suggest that he didn't lost, and so that was not something he was going to admit and that's something people around him think he will ever admit.
KEILAR: Yes, that's -- he'll -- I think he will definitely go out on. Dana Bash, thank you so much, great reporting.
BASH: Thanks, Bri.
KEILAR: I want to talk now with Republican Congressman Rodney Davis of Illinois, who is joining us to discuss more about the unprecedented events that are playing out on Capitol Hill. Sir, I want to thank you for joining us.
REP. RODNEY DAVIS (R-IL): Thanks for having me on, Brianna.
KEILAR: So, I want to ask you, yesterday -- and yesterday on the House floor, you said, quote, what we saw last week scared all of us who were here. It also showed adversaries what it takes to take out of branch of government. And you then voted, no, on impeaching the president. Your Republican colleague, Liz Cheney, said much more will become clear in the coming days and weeks, but what we know now is enough. And I know that you disagree with that. So can you explain why?
DAVIS: Well, what we may know in a couple of weeks, we weren't given a chance to see, and that's part of the problem. Just as I stood up for the Constitution when I voted to fulfill my 12th Amendment responsibility to certify the electors that came in from each and every state on the day of the riots, I stood up for the Constitution yesterday.
The Democrats have shown us that we can have a politicized impeachment process that, unfortunately, our forefathers were warning us about. And I'm afraid it's going to be become part of our national narrative whenever we have a president. If we're going to impeach someone, let's have hearings. Let's discuss why the impeachment process is moving forward. Let's not rush it because, number one, it's not going to happen. The president is going to be removed from office because he lost the election, not because his convicted of crimes -- of high crimes and misdemeanors of impeachment inquiry.
KEILAR: But what facts of Trump's involvement and in inciting this are unclear to you?
DAVIS: Well, I believe in personal responsibility, Brianna. And one of the first times you and I met, was after crazed gunman came and fire at me and my friends on a baseball field just over four years ago. As a matter of fact, Brianna, a lot of that had to do with some rhetoric coming from people like Nancy Pelosi and Bernie Sanders, where they were saying Republicans are killing people with our policies. That man was screening healthcare as he was firing indiscriminately at all of us that morning.
KEILAR: Sir, I -- look, Congressman, I don't want -- I remember that very scary morning when we spoke not long after that happened. And I certainly do not want to diminish what you and your Republican colleague went through on that horrific day. That was one gun man, and we are talking about a situation where President Trump was speaking to a massive crowd, many of whom went to the Capitol, many of whom then went inside the Capitol. I mean, he was speaking to them just before they stormed the Capitol and you were there.
So when you say that you want a couple of weeks, you want there to be hearings, clearly, you're indicating that this is too premature, too quick of an action that the House has taken. That is my question, what is unclear to you? You want to know more, and there are more detail coming up for sure about some of the folks involved in this. When it comes to the president behavior, which is what impeachment is about, what part of his involvement here is unclear to you?
DAVIS: Words matter, and I put that in my statement, that that in many statements since the baseball shooting and throughout his presidency, and I'll say it for the rest of my career.
[13:20:02]
But the bottom line is I'm a Republican because I believe in personal responsibility. I don't care what anybody says. If somebody takes what they say and turns that into a criminal action, like firing indiscriminately at me and my friends in a baseball field or attacking a Capitol, which is tragic, we need to make sure that they are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
KEILAR: But you were saying -- sir, are you saying then that the folks who -- the insurrectionists who came inside the Capitol, that they are responsible solely and that President Trump, there's no responsibility? And maybe my -- the way to ask this is to say that Liz Cheney said, in her comments before voting for impeachment, the president of the United States summoned this mob, assemble the mob and lit the flame of this attack. Do you agree with that?
DAVIS: Well, Liz is my friend. And I'm going to let her speak for herself, but I can tell you who I speak for and that's me and my constituents. And I speak for the Constitution, which is why I don't want to see an impeachment process hijack by politics regardless of how you feel about the president.
Misinformation matters. What the president said, about an election being stolen, I believe, is wrong. And I believe the (INAUDIBLE). It gave many people who were on the far right of the political spectrum hope that somehow that the Electoral College process that I was a part of didn't happen, that he would be elected for another four years. That was not going to happen.
But it's the same misinformation, it's the same false hope, that many in the media and many Democrats in Washington right now are saying this is going to happen through impeachment, that somehow he is going to be removed from office when he's days away from moving out from the White House.
KEILAR: I don't think that's what they're saying, I think they're saying it's about accountability. That seems to be the argument that is -- I would say that I'm hearing. So why not -- why not proceed -- you talk about personal responsibility. What about accountability?
DAVIS: Well, I think anyone who use this rhetoric that insights violence should be held accountable and not just the president, members of Congress, everybody who --
KEILAR: Okay, but we're talking -- look, were talking about the president right now because he was impeached yesterday. So that's what we are talking about right now. What about accountability for what President Trump said before the riot? What about what President Trump said during the riots, where he told these people that he loved them and that they were special? DAVIS: I would tell you, I voted against the impeachment because the process was rushed. We can all hold an elected officials accountable and President Trump was held accountable because he lost the election. He's not going to be president anymore. But I'll tell you what my priorities had been since January 6th, Brianna, another reason I wanted to discussed with you --
KEILAR: Was it rushed because you feel like more will come out that you don't understand about the president's involvement here? I mean, we're talking -- when it comes to impeachment, this is not the impeachment of the rioters, right? This is not the impeachment of the people inside the Capitol. This is the impeachment of the president for his role. And I don't hear you saying that you're unclear on what he did.
DAVIS: Again, the rioters need to be held responsible for their actions. The president was held responsible for the rhetoric and the misinformation that he put forth throughout his term as president by losing the election.
The bottom line is every politician needs to be held accountable for what they say. And everyone can stop right now in spreading this information and creating this process we have in the United States right now, Brianna, that has led now to me having my life saved twice by the brave heroes of the United States Capitol police.
My job right now is to make sure that they secure the Capitol so we have a peaceful transition of power, because we are the United States of America and that's what we do. And I want to make sure that our police officers have all the resources they need to make that happen, and that's what I'm focused on.
KEILAR: Look, there was heroism that day, no doubt. But you said the president has suffered the consequences by being voted out of office. He was voted out of office in November. And then he proceeded to spew lies and conspiracy theories about widespread voter fraud that did not exist, and that has been affirmed by many Republican-appointed officials, including in his own administration.
The accountability for what happened on January 6th, I mean, you can't make that argument that it's in early November that that is how he was held accountable. What happened on January 6th was because he was voted out and because he then fomented conspiracy theories for two months. I just don't understand your logic.
DAVIS: Well, I can make that argument, Brianna, because I've been talking about how that is wrong and it's misinformation and how it's not true.
[13:25:05]
To set expectations that somehow we in the House of Representatives with Vice President Mike Pence can overturn those Electoral College results was wrong, and it was not going to happen.
I've been adamantly stating that, much to the chagrin of some of the people who supported me and the president. Look, the election didn't work out the way I wanted it to. I think the legal representation the president had was nothing more than a legal clown car (ph). These folks are 0-60 in court cases. But what they did is they set expectations that were untrue.
So I can make that logic, because I've been actually making that case since the election, and I don't want the president to continue to foment that this discontent regardless of how those videos were processed and unanimous sources that are letting you know that (INAUDIBLE) could make that happen. I'm glad they were because it shows me that we are going to have a peaceful transition of power, and that's exactly what this country needs right now after the attack last week.
KEILAR: Do you worry that impeachment will lead to more violence? Do you think that's a reason that it should be avoided?
DAVIS: It obviously could, and it could turn the president into a martyr with many of his supporters that unfairly believe that the election was stolen.
KEILAR: But how is that a reason? And I would ask you this, because I just -- you know, having covered Republicans for some time, I just -- I don't recall them in the way that I've seen them kowtowing to terrorists to say that would be a reason not to proceed with accountability.
DAVIS: Kowtowing to terrorism is not what I would ever want to be accused of and it's pretty offensive to be accused of that, to be honest with you, Brianna.
KEILAR: I said no, I said Republicans who have made this argument, that it -- the one of the reasons for not proceeding with impeachment proceedings is because it will cause violence.
DAVIS: It's a reason I laid out that I think President-elect Biden should have stepped in and said, if we're going to have an impeachment process, let's make a deliberative process.
There are other ways to make sure that the president is held accountable through the legislative body but Speaker Pelosi didn't allow us to actually have a vote on any of those other measures. She chose impeachment. And I am elected to protect the Constitution of the United States of America, just as I stood up for the 12th Amendment and my responsibilities, much to the chagrin of many in my party, the day of that riot and was on that floor as a teller right in front of Vice President Pence and Speaker Pelosi until 4:00 A.M., making sure we did our job.
I'm also going to stand up for the hijack of the impeachment process laid out by our forefathers. Not inconsistent and it's very frustrating to be accused of inconsistency when this is our job as a duly elected member of Congress.
KEILAR: What's the accountability after the election? Because, clearly, some of the members of your conference believe this was the way to go because there wouldn't be. What is the accountability by foregoing this opportunity for it?
DAVIS: The accountability is the truth. The truth is the election was not stolen and the president lost. You just said --
KEILAR: But the accountability that signals to other elected officials, you can't do this. You can't incite violence. You can't send a mob up to the Capitol. You can't say the words and feed them lies that they ingest and believe in their hearts is the reason for why they are inside the Capitol, in their belief, being patriots.
DAVIS: Well, nobody who entered the Capitol that day on January 6 is a patriot. They are criminals. And I certainly hope that they get the felony on their record that a gentleman who thought it was a good idea to call me a year ago and threatened to blow my head off, the same reason he's got a felony on his record. Accountability matters.
And I'm afraid, unfortunately, our lack of accountability for rhetoric and misinformation is not relegated to the president when it comes to Congress and the Senate in Washington, D.C.
KEILAR: Sir, we are going to have to leave it there for time's sake. Congressman Rodney Davis, it is good to see you. As always, it is good to see you safe and well.
DAVIS: You too, Brianna. Have a great day.
KEILAR: Just in, news of another arrest for a high-profile rioter who assaulted police officers during the siege.
Plus, after the arrest of the man in the Camp Auschwitz shirt, Wolf Blitzer is going to join me live on why the anti-Semitism at the riot is so personal for him and many other people.
And the president's business brand is faltering fast as more companies cut ties with him in the wake of the attack.
[13:30:01]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHN KING, CNN INSIDE POLITICS: -- and the charges he will face.
[13:00:01]
I appreciate your time on this day. I hope to see you back here this time tomorrow. A busy news day, please stay with us. Brianna Keilar picks up our coverage right now. Have a good day.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN RIGHT NOW: Hi there, I'm Brianna Keilar, and I want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world, as we are watching the fallout from the historic of second impeachment of President Donald Trump and the deadly riot on the Capitol.
Washington now, looks like a fortress. 20,000 National Guard troops are on alert responding to threats of another insurrection this time possibly with more firepower behind it. Federal officials are warning that extremists are now more emboldened to carry out attacks after what happened at the Capitol last week.
And now this breaking news, CNN has learned that authorities have arrested this man seen carrying a confederate flag through the halls of the Capitol during last week's riot. Kevin Seefried of Delaware has been identified as this person.
And in the meantime, police have arrested a man accused of striking a U.S. Capitol police officer with a fire extinguisher during the January 6th riots. The criminal complained identifies the man in this video as Robert Sanford. He's a retired Chester Pennsylvania firefighter. And in the video Sanford is seen wearing a dark plaid shirt and a backpack. He picks up what appears to be a fire extinguisher off the ground. Moments later, he throws it at a group of police officers nearby. It hit one officer square on the back of the helmet with such force that it bounced off the helmet and over the other officers.
Now, the scenes around Capitol Hill are pretty eye-popping right now. There is huge fencing that is ringing the area, there are thousands of these National Guard troops that are on alert, and our Pete Muntean is there right now. Pete, tell us what you're seeing.
PETE MUNTEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, it's a little bit jarring, in fact. You know, this is a spot along Constitution Avenue in Pennsylvania that would typically be teeming with people leading up to an inauguration. Now, the crowds will be replaced by this giant fence here.
I am six feet tall. This is almost eight feet tall, pretty hard to scale. And on the other side of it, if you did make it to the other side, are some of the 20,000 members of the National Guard here descending on Washington right now, more arriving by the minute. The threat here is very real, according to the Secret Service, which is leading this massive security operation. It is worried about more copycat attacks. It is following new chatter online. And the Pentagon says it is worried about more improvised explosive devices, like those pipe bombs found at the RNC and the DNC. The head of the Metropolitan Washington Police Department says the threat here is very real and Americans should not come to Washington for this inauguration. Here is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ACTING CHIEF ROBERT CONTEE, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT: As the Mayor has encouraged residents, as she has encouraged visitors from around the country, we're not asking people to come to D.C. for this. There is a major security threat and we are working to mitigate those threats. So, again, we are just very intently focused on the job that's at hand.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MUNTEAN: Take a look at this, Brianna. This is Pennsylvania Avenue. This would be the parade route from the Capitol to the White House, right now completely deserted and it will stay this way. Access to the National Mall, very limited leading up to this inauguration day like no other.
KEILAR: It is quite the scene to behold. Pete, thank you so much for taking us there.
Federal investigators are looking at signs that the deadly Capitol insurrection may have been planned and that it was not just a protest that spawned an insurrection.
CNN Senior Justice Correspondent Evan Perez is with me now. Evan, what more are you learning?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna, the investigators are being driven in this direction by some of the evidence that we haven't seen. They are taking a look at indications, for instance, and evidence that shows that certain people who left the rally, the Trump rally, at the ellipse outside of the White House and made their way to perhaps their cars or some other place where they had left some of these weapons that then they used to storm the Capitol.
There were things that you couldn't get close to the White House with because you had to leave backpacks and everything else because of the security there, and they were able to bring things like crowbars and sledgehammers and climbing ropes. There were indications that people clearly had tactical gear that they had trained to be able to use.
And you can see some of the videos that have now been made public that the FBI is taking a closer look at that indicates you can tell from the people who were talking about, what they were trying to do, that they had some foreknowledge and some plan of action. Take a listen to this one. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, guys, I've been in the other room, listen to me. In the other room on the other side of this door, right here where these feet are standing. There is a glass that if somebody, and if it's broken, you can drop down into a room underneath it.
[13:05:03]
There're also two doors in the other room, one in the rear and one to the right when you go in. So, people should probably coordinate together if you're going to take this building.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PEREZ: And, Brianna, there are tons of other videos like this at the FBI is trying to authenticate. They want to find these people. They want to talk to them to try to understand, again, looking at travel records, looking at money to see what level of coordination there was. Perhaps there were multiple groups with the same aim, and that's where this case is now being investigated.
KEILAR: And federal officials, Evan, are also warning that domestic extremists are likely emboldened now to carry out more attacks. Tell us about this.
PEREZ: Yes, that's right. The fact that this attack was successful, what it does is it gives the idea to other extremists out there that this is something they can do and perhaps do even better if they plan ahead. It also gives them the idea that there are other people that they can connect to. And so that's one of the things that the FBI, the Secret Service, everybody is very, very cognizant and they're very worried about in the coming days.
KEILAR: Evan, thank you so much, great reporting. Thank you for sharing it with us.
My next guest has been sounding the alarm on the threat of domestic terrorism for more than a decade. And he warns that the Capitol attack is ushering in a new period of violence and hostility, that the attack was not a finale for right-wing extremists who support Trump. Daryl Johnson is a former Senior Domestic Terrorism Analyst at the Department of Homeland Security. He is also Author of the book, Hateland, A Long, Hard Look at America's Extremist Heart.
So explain this to us, if you could. You say this is not a finale. Why?
DARYL JOHNSON, FORMER SENIOR DOMESTIC TERRORISM ANALYST, DHS: Yes. So this momentum has been building over years and months. Like you said, I wrote a report back in 2009 warning of this threat. And it's basically gone unheeded for ten years or more.
And so what has happened is these people have latched on to conspiracy theories and the false notion that the 2020 election was rigged and that it was rampant with voter fraud and that it was stolen from them. And so this narrative has incited and radicalized more people on the far right, and so they're agitated to the point where they're going to be committed to this campaign for the next four years.
KEILAR: The FBI is investigating, Daryl, whether the siege of the Capitol was planned. We just heard that report from Evan Perez. What does it look like to you from the evidence that you're seeing?
JOHNSON: So, definitely, there was a lot of chatter leading up to the events last week, talking about violence, talking about storming the Capitol. The FBI had even warned the Capitol police supposedly, according to media reports. So this event wasn't a spontaneous thing that happened, although I think that the president's remarks that day did incite people to go forward with their plans.
KEILAR: We know that a number of police officers from across the country took part in the attack. We know that former members of the military were involved. There were reports of at least one active duty member of the military, a Special Forces officer taking part, and investigators say they're looking into whether more current members of the military were involved. What does that tell you?
JOHNSON: Well, that was one of the things I warned about in 2009 and I got quite a bit of criticism over, and this is the notion of returning veterans coming back in being targeted for recruitment by these groups. And, in fact, in 2009, we saw the formation of an extremist organization called the Oath Keepers with sole mission is to recruit military veterans and police officers into the ranks of these groups. So it boosts their violent capability, it boosts their sophistication in how they communicate and plan these types of attacks.
KEILAR: Daryl Johnson, thank you so much for being with us.
JOHNSON: You're welcome.
KEILAR: So, the president's fate is now in the hands of the Senate as the Republicans are holding their cards close to the vest on whether they will convict him and potentially keep him from running again in 2024.
Plus, new reporting on the president's reluctance to tape these videos where he denounces violence, and why he's refusing to pay Rudy Giuliani's legal fees.
This is CNN special live coverage.
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[13:10:00]
KEILAR: Irritated and isolated, that is how President Trump is feeling, according to sources, now that he's been impeached twice, the only president in U.S. history to be in this position. It was bipartisan rebuke this time, a handful of Republican lawmakers joining with Democrats after he incited the insurrection at the Capitol.
And now we're learning about just how much effort it took to get Trump to make a new video that condemned the violence.
And joining me now, we have CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent Dana Bash. Dana, tell us what your resources are saying.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL SCORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, that it was a full court press to try to get the president to make the video. It took quite some time. This was done by aides and allies alike, everybody from Mark Meadows, his chief of staff, to Jared Kushner his adviser and, of course, his son-in-law, to Lindsey Graham, who is an ally of his who definitely condemned him on the Senate floor and then raised eyebrows by going with him to Texas on Tuesday. This was part of his mission to try to get him to condemn the violence.
And I was told, according to one source familiar with one of the many conversations, is that the president was told that if he didn't and something else happened, quote, you will own it, that the president was told, quote, silence is not an option and he needs to break the cycle.
[13:15:08]
Now, he, the president was resistant, and that was pretty obvious, right, Brianna, by the first two videos that he released where he didn't go far enough at all to condemn the violence. That took a while for the president to absorb this. But I'm told there were two points that appeared to get through to him in the end. One is, again, that he will own it, and that he needs to make a hard break. And the second is that he owes his supporters who are not part of the violence to separate -- for him to separate them from the people who perform this act, this act of domestic terrorism, and that people who voted for him feel lumped in with them.
And you know, the other question that I have been asking and I'm sure you have too, Bri, is, well okay, what about the next step, saying, finally, the election was free and fair, it wasn't stolen. I am told that was a nonstarter with this president because we know a key part of his character and what he was thought by his father and other people close to him, like Roy Cohn, is that never admit that you lost. You don't want to appear as a loser, and that is why he has been grasping on anything, lie after lie after a lie, to hang his hat on to suggest that he didn't lost, and so that was not something he was going to admit and that's something people around him think he will ever admit.
KEILAR: Yes, that's -- he'll -- I think he will definitely go out on. Dana Bash, thank you so much, great reporting.
BASH: Thanks, Bri.
KEILAR: I want to talk now with Republican Congressman Rodney Davis of Illinois, who is joining us to discuss more about the unprecedented events that are playing out on Capitol Hill. Sir, I want to thank you for joining us.
REP. RODNEY DAVIS (R-IL): Thanks for having me on, Brianna. KEILAR: So, I want to ask you, yesterday -- and yesterday on the House floor, you said, quote, what we saw last week scared all of us who were here. It also showed adversaries what it takes to take out of branch of government. And you then voted, no, on impeaching the president. Your Republican colleague, Liz Cheney, said much more will become clear in the coming days and weeks, but what we know now is enough. And I know that you disagree with that. So can you explain why?
DAVIS: Well, what we may know in a couple of weeks, we weren't given a chance to see, and that's part of the problem. Just as I stood up for the Constitution when I voted to fulfill my 12th Amendment responsibility to certify the electors that came in from each and every state on the day of the riots, I stood up for the Constitution yesterday.
The Democrats have shown us that we can have a politicized impeachment process that, unfortunately, our forefathers were warning us about. And I'm afraid it's going to be become part of our national narrative whenever we have a president. If we're going to impeach someone, let's have hearings. Let's discuss why the impeachment process is moving forward. Let's not rush it because, number one, it's not going to happen. The president is going to be removed from office because he lost the election, not because his convicted of crimes -- of high crimes and misdemeanors of impeachment inquiry.
KEILAR: But what facts of Trump's involvement and in inciting this are unclear to you?
DAVIS: Well, I believe in personal responsibility, Brianna. And one of the first times you and I met, was after crazed gunman came and fire at me and my friends on a baseball field just over four years ago. As a matter of fact, Brianna, a lot of that had to do with some rhetoric coming from people like Nancy Pelosi and Bernie Sanders, where they were saying Republicans are killing people with our policies. That man was screening healthcare as he was firing indiscriminately at all of us that morning.
KEILAR: Sir, I -- look, Congressman, I don't want -- I remember that very scary morning when we spoke not long after that happened. And I certainly do not want to diminish what you and your Republican colleague went through on that horrific day. That was one gun man, and we are talking about a situation where President Trump was speaking to a massive crowd, many of whom went to the Capitol, many of whom then went inside the Capitol. I mean, he was speaking to them just before they stormed the Capitol and you were there.
So when you say that you want a couple of weeks, you want there to be hearings, clearly, you're indicating that this is too premature, too quick of an action that the House has taken. That is my question, what is unclear to you? You want to know more, and there are more detail coming up for sure about some of the folks involved in this. When it comes to the president behavior, which is what impeachment is about, what part of his involvement here is unclear to you?
DAVIS: Words matter, and I put that in my statement, that that in many statements since the baseball shooting and throughout his presidency, and I'll say it for the rest of my career.
[13:20:02]
But the bottom line is I'm a Republican because I believe in personal responsibility. I don't care what anybody says. If somebody takes what they say and turns that into a criminal action, like firing indiscriminately at me and my friends in a baseball field or attacking a Capitol, which is tragic, we need to make sure that they are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
KEILAR: But you were saying -- sir, are you saying then that the folks who -- the insurrectionists who came inside the Capitol, that they are responsible solely and that President Trump, there's no responsibility? And maybe my -- the way to ask this is to say that Liz Cheney said, in her comments before voting for impeachment, the president of the United States summoned this mob, assemble the mob and lit the flame of this attack. Do you agree with that?
DAVIS: Well, Liz is my friend. And I'm going to let her speak for herself, but I can tell you who I speak for and that's me and my constituents. And I speak for the Constitution, which is why I don't want to see an impeachment process hijack by politics regardless of how you feel about the president.
Misinformation matters. What the president said, about an election being stolen, I believe, is wrong. And I believe the (INAUDIBLE). It gave many people who were on the far right of the political spectrum hope that somehow that the Electoral College process that I was a part of didn't happen, that he would be elected for another four years. That was not going to happen.
But it's the same misinformation, it's the same false hope, that many in the media and many Democrats in Washington right now are saying this is going to happen through impeachment, that somehow he is going to be removed from office when he's days away from moving out from the White House.
KEILAR: I don't think that's what they're saying, I think they're saying it's about accountability. That seems to be the argument that is -- I would say that I'm hearing. So why not -- why not proceed -- you talk about personal responsibility. What about accountability?
DAVIS: Well, I think anyone who use this rhetoric that insights violence should be held accountable and not just the president, members of Congress, everybody who --
KEILAR: Okay, but we're talking -- look, were talking about the president right now because he was impeached yesterday. So that's what we are talking about right now. What about accountability for what President Trump said before the riot? What about what President Trump said during the riots, where he told these people that he loved them and that they were special?
DAVIS: I would tell you, I voted against the impeachment because the process was rushed. We can all hold an elected officials accountable and President Trump was held accountable because he lost the election. He's not going to be president anymore. But I'll tell you what my priorities had been since January 6th, Brianna, another reason I wanted to discussed with you --
KEILAR: Was it rushed because you feel like more will come out that you don't understand about the president's involvement here? I mean, we're talking -- when it comes to impeachment, this is not the impeachment of the rioters, right? This is not the impeachment of the people inside the Capitol. This is the impeachment of the president for his role. And I don't hear you saying that you're unclear on what he did.
DAVIS: Again, the rioters need to be held responsible for their actions. The president was held responsible for the rhetoric and the misinformation that he put forth throughout his term as president by losing the election.
The bottom line is every politician needs to be held accountable for what they say. And everyone can stop right now in spreading this information and creating this process we have in the United States right now, Brianna, that has led now to me having my life saved twice by the brave heroes of the United States Capitol police.
My job right now is to make sure that they secure the Capitol so we have a peaceful transition of power, because we are the United States of America and that's what we do. And I want to make sure that our police officers have all the resources they need to make that happen, and that's what I'm focused on.
KEILAR: Look, there was heroism that day, no doubt. But you said the president has suffered the consequences by being voted out of office. He was voted out of office in November. And then he proceeded to spew lies and conspiracy theories about widespread voter fraud that did not exist, and that has been affirmed by many Republican-appointed officials, including in his own administration.
The accountability for what happened on January 6th, I mean, you can't make that argument that it's in early November that that is how he was held accountable. What happened on January 6th was because he was voted out and because he then fomented conspiracy theories for two months. I just don't understand your logic.
DAVIS: Well, I can make that argument, Brianna, because I've been talking about how that is wrong and it's misinformation and how it's not true.
[13:25:05]
To set expectations that somehow we in the House of Representatives with Vice President Mike Pence can overturn those Electoral College results was wrong, and it was not going to happen.
I've been adamantly stating that, much to the chagrin of some of the people who supported me and the president. Look, the election didn't work out the way I wanted it to. I think the legal representation the president had was nothing more than a legal clown car (ph). These folks are 0-60 in court cases. But what they did is they set expectations that were untrue.
So I can make that logic, because I've been actually making that case since the election, and I don't want the president to continue to foment that this discontent regardless of how those videos were processed and unanimous sources that are letting you know that (INAUDIBLE) could make that happen. I'm glad they were because it shows me that we are going to have a peaceful transition of power, and that's exactly what this country needs right now after the attack last week.
KEILAR: Do you worry that impeachment will lead to more violence? Do you think that's a reason that it should be avoided?
DAVIS: It obviously could, and it could turn the president into a martyr with many of his supporters that unfairly believe that the election was stolen.
KEILAR: But how is that a reason? And I would ask you this, because I just -- you know, having covered Republicans for some time, I just -- I don't recall them in the way that I've seen them kowtowing to terrorists to say that would be a reason not to proceed with accountability.
DAVIS: Kowtowing to terrorism is not what I would ever want to be accused of and it's pretty offensive to be accused of that, to be honest with you, Brianna.
KEILAR: I said no, I said Republicans who have made this argument, that it -- the one of the reasons for not proceeding with impeachment proceedings is because it will cause violence.
DAVIS: It's a reason I laid out that I think President-elect Biden should have stepped in and said, if we're going to have an impeachment process, let's make a deliberative process.
There are other ways to make sure that the president is held accountable through the legislative body but Speaker Pelosi didn't allow us to actually have a vote on any of those other measures. She chose impeachment. And I am elected to protect the Constitution of the United States of America, just as I stood up for the 12th Amendment and my responsibilities, much to the chagrin of many in my party, the day of that riot and was on that floor as a teller right in front of Vice President Pence and Speaker Pelosi until 4:00 A.M., making sure we did our job.
I'm also going to stand up for the hijack of the impeachment process laid out by our forefathers. Not inconsistent and it's very frustrating to be accused of inconsistency when this is our job as a duly elected member of Congress.
KEILAR: What's the accountability after the election? Because, clearly, some of the members of your conference believe this was the way to go because there wouldn't be. What is the accountability by foregoing this opportunity for it?
DAVIS: The accountability is the truth. The truth is the election was not stolen and the president lost. You just said --
KEILAR: But the accountability that signals to other elected officials, you can't do this. You can't incite violence. You can't send a mob up to the Capitol. You can't say the words and feed them lies that they ingest and believe in their hearts is the reason for why they are inside the Capitol, in their belief, being patriots.
DAVIS: Well, nobody who entered the Capitol that day on January 6 is a patriot. They are criminals. And I certainly hope that they get the felony on their record that a gentleman who thought it was a good idea to call me a year ago and threatened to blow my head off, the same reason he's got a felony on his record. Accountability matters.
And I'm afraid, unfortunately, our lack of accountability for rhetoric and misinformation is not relegated to the president when it comes to Congress and the Senate in Washington, D.C.
KEILAR: Sir, we are going to have to leave it there for time's sake. Congressman Rodney Davis, it is good to see you. As always, it is good to see you safe and well.
DAVIS: You too, Brianna. Have a great day.
KEILAR: Just in, news of another arrest for a high profile rioter who assaulted police officers during the siege.
Plus, after the arrest of the man in the Camp Auschwitz shirt, Wolf Blitzer is going to join me live on why the anti-Semitism at the riot is so personal for him and many other people.
And the president's business brand is faltering fast as more companies cut ties with him in the wake of the attack.
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