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Key GOP Senators to Watch as Impeachment Trial Looms; Biden, McConnell Talk More Than People Know; GOP's Growing Threat: If You Impeach, They Will Come; CDC: 90,000 Americans Could Die in Next 3 Weeks Amid Sluggish Vaccine Rollout; Ex-Capitol Hill Staffers: Make COVID Testing Mandatory. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired January 14, 2021 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Ben Sasse, you remember that long Facebook post really critiquing the entire sort of lie about the election.

Pat Toomey has also for his resignation. And he's retiring. So, freed up of some political pressure.

I would say these five are the most likely to convict.

Then it's the Senators to watch, which, of course, starts with leadership. Mitch McConnell, who has said he's going to take a look at the evidence and decide.

He doesn't rule out the notion that he might vote to convict. Which is not at all the same thing as saying he will convict, Brianna.

But if Mitch McConnell doesn't end up voting to convicted, well maybe he would bring like a John Thune, his number two, over with him. Maybe Deb Fischer, of Nebraska might join them. That could have real impact on the numbers.

That's why all eyes continue to stay on McConnell.

Take a look at the potential retirees this year. Richard Berg, North Carolina, already announced he's not running again. He's on the potential list because it frees up that political pressure.

Richard Shelby, of Alabama, Chuck Grassley, of Iowa, not formally retirements but on the retirement watch lists and could make them a potential target to be swayed by the impeachment managers to convict.

These folks just got reelected. They've got six years. So, they don't have to woo the base of the party necessarily now. They've got an election not for six years.

James Inhofe, Shelley Moore Capito, Mike Braun, Joni Ernst, Dan Sullivan, from Alaska, Thom Tillis, of North Carolina, they would be on a potential target list if you're a House impeachment manager looking for votes. Then, of course, you have the final category here. These are folks up

for re-election next year. They're in cycle in 2022. They might be potentially open to a vote to convict.

But they're in cycle and they do need to woo the Trump base, that is still very powerful inside the Republican Party.

Roy Blunt, Rob Portman, James Lankford, Mike Lee, Todd Young, these folks have to weigh so carefully the political consideration here if, indeed, it wants to play into their vote.

If they just want to do a vote of conscious and dismiss politics all together, well, that would be rare in Washington. We don't see a whole lot of that around here -- Brianna?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: That is rare.

CHALIAN: Right.

KEILAR: We don't see a lot of that. That's some of the truest words I ever heard.

David Chalian, thank you so much.

CHALIAN: Thanks.

KEILAR: David mentioned Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is one of the folks to watch. Not just for his vote on impeachment but also for how his relationship plays out with President-Elect Biden over the next four years.

I want to bring in CNN chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, who is here.

This is fascinating. This is something that's fascinating to watch.

And, Gloria, you have some new information about how often Biden and McConnell are in touch.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: I was told by somebody close to Biden that they talk more than people know, which means probably a lot. These men have known each other for many years.

And I was also told that the feeling inside the incoming administration is that McConnell is not someone who's going to pull a quick one on them.

That is shaped by Biden himself. That every time they get all exorcised about, oh, when are you going to get a confirmation, when are we going to get these people through, Biden tells them, hold back, take a deep breath and wait a minute.

They believe that is, in part, because of he's having these conversations with McConnell as well as with other people on the Hill.

KEILAR: So, McConnell, I mean, he's not going to be majority leader anymore.

BORGER: Right.

KEILAR: But he could also be very consequential because there's a need for a filibuster-proof majority in getting agenda items passed and there aren't enough Democrats to do that.

BORGER: Right.

KEILAR: How much is Biden going to take these positions of McConnell's into consideration?

BORGER: Well, a lot. I think it is Biden's inclination to try to start with, first of all, there's a COVID package coming up. He knows a lot of Republicans are opposed to the $2,000 stimulus and that the $2 trillion price tag is very large.

He's going to talk to McConnell about what they can actually get done. What is doable. What Republicans will go for.

So, they can negotiate, in effect, behind closed doors so he knows where they're coming from.

I think he'll keep an open conversation going there, which is more, by the way, than Mitch McConnell ever had with the president of the United States, Donald Trump.

He was often very surprised. Remember when Donald Trump pulled the rug out on the stimulus on him? Then, when he came out and said, no, no, I'm back in on the stimulus but I want $2,000 for each person. That was not in any consultation with Mitch McConnell.

I think there may be more conversations going back and forth, ironically, than ever were with this White House.

KEILAR: That is pretty wild.

BORGER: Yes.

KEILAR: Gloria Borger, thank you so much.

BORGER: Sure.

[14:34:40]

KEILAR: Next, the unbelievable argument that is now being made by Republican backers of the president. That it's actually Democrats who are being divisive and encouraging violence by holding Trump accountable. We're going to roll the tape.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: After the attack on the capitol, after Trump was impeached a second time, including by members of his party, the White House is still lying about the election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER NAVARRO, WHITE HOUSE ADVISOR: The Democratic Party did violence to this country by attacking a president who I believe was legally elected on November 3rd.

I've never been more pissed off in my life at this place. And I think there's 74 million Americans out there who voted for President Trump and feel exactly the same way.

So, I would say to these people on Capitol Hill, knock it off. Stop this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: There are two refrains we're hearing over and over from Republicans since the capitol siege. In the first, if you impeach Trump it will cause division. The second, that division will cause violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: The sham articles of impeachment will only serve to further fan the flames of unrest.

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: This access will only serve to further offend the 75 million people who voted for President Trump.

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): There's no way this House can deal with the tragic and terrible events of last week.

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: I can think of no action the House can take. It's more like to further divide the American people.

[14:40:03]

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: A vote to impeach would further divide this nation.

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: What we need to do is take time and reflect.

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: A vote to impeach will further fan the flames of partisan division.

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: I urge you, please, do not -- and I'm mixing metaphors here -- attempt to douse the remaining burning embers of this movement with gasoline.

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSWOMAN: At a time when our country needs unity, it is concerning that my Democratic colleagues have chosen to begin impeachment proceedings against the president.

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: Let's link arms with one another and begin to heal. Let's stop this impeachment.

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: If you truly want or nation to heal, vote no on this resolution. DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This impeachment is

causing tremendous anger. And you're doing it and it's really a terrible thing that they're doing.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): If you want to end the violence, end impeachment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: The very people who have been saying for months that Trump won an election that he did not, who are knowingly telling supporters this lie, who have enabled a president who wants to break the system as he tries to harness the rage of extremists and racists for his own preservation, are telling people who want accountability to let it go. It's too divisive. It's what will cause violence.

They are kowtowing to insurrectionists, to racists, to conspiracy theorists.

More than 90 percent of House Republicans voted against impeaching the president for inciting the deadly siege, despite the fact that they were witnesses to it. Witnesses to an attempted coup inspired by the president and his lies.

This is a "get out of jail free" card cynically cloaked in a call for unity. It is the appeasement of domestic terrorists.

Since when are Republicans into placating terrorists?

Not so long ago, in a land not so far away, there was a Republican Party that would have confronted Russia for putting bounties on the heads of U.S. soldiers.

There was a Republican Party that would have done something about Russia hacking a huge part of the federal government.

There was a Republican Party that would have stood up to a president who spent taxpayer money like he didn't have to pay it back to Deutsche Bank.

Donald Trump says roll over. Republicans ask, how far. He says far enough that you don't recognize yourself anymore. And now the GOP has a choice to make.

Next, the CDC warns 90,000 Americans could die from coronavirus in the next three weeks. We are going to break down the numbers and where the nation stands on rolling out the life-saving vaccines.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:47:04]

KEILAR: As hard as it seems after what this country has been through when it comes to coronavirus, the next three weeks could be even more sobering for America. More than 90,000 Americans could die from the virus, according to a new CDC projection. This comes as the vaccine rollout is still woefully behind. More than

30 million doses delivered but only 11 million administered.

I want to talk with our CNN senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen.

Elizabeth, this forecast, what more can you tell us about it?

DR. ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Brianna, before we talk about these numbers, I want to say something.

I think we've all gotten a little inert to these numbers. We see them and we think tens of thousands of deaths, it almost doesn't affect us.

When we look at these numbers, I want you to think about these as individual people, husbands, wives, mothers, fathers, sons, daughters. These are real people.

And now look at the numbers. If you look at deaths in the U.S. in the past two weeks, there have been 38,000. So, 38,000 deaths over two weeks. That's about 19,000 deaths per week.

Now the forecast -- and this is from the CDC, not from some fringy kind of place -- think that -- they forecast, over the next three weeks, we'll see 92,000 deaths. So that's a rate of about 30,000 a week.

So, a much -- an increased death rate in the three weeks to come. And the death rate that we've seen in these past two weeks has been horrible enough -- Brianna?

KEILAR: That is incredible. I mean, when you break it down like that, 30,000 in a week.

You also have new reporting about an escape mutant that may decrease the efficacy of coronavirus vaccines. What does that mean?

COHEN: So, we've been talking about these variants we've been seeing. A variant first spotted in the U.K. Now let's talk about the variant that was first spotted in South Africa in November.

When I talked to scientists about that variant, they are really concerned and worried about this one. They say that they are seeing in their labs that this variant, first spotted in South Africa, has many mutations.

One of the mutations they say has shown to be an escape mutant. Meaning that it could escape some of the antibodies created by the vaccine.

That's a problem. It could render the vaccine less effective than it is right now against the strains that we're currently seeing in the United States and other places.

So they're keeping an eye on this variant coming from South Africa. They are worried it could, in part, escape the vaccine. KEILAR: That is very bad news.

Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much for that report.

COHEN: Thanks.

KEILAR: At least three lawmakers have tested positive for COVID after sheltering with colleagues who refused to wear masks during the capitol attack.

[14:49:46]

And my next guests have issued a bipartisan call to mandate coronavirus testing on Capitol Hill. We'll discuss why that has not happened yet.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Just in, the D.C. attorney general wants to interview Donald Trump Jr as part of the investigation into the abuse of the president's inaugural funds.

Prosecutors are alleging that the Trump Organization and the Inaugural Committee misused more than $1 million raised by the nonprofit by overpaying for the use of event space at the Trump Hotel.

Ivanka Trump has already been interviewed for hours. And we'll have some updates on this as we get them.

Last week's deadly insurrection on our nation's Capitol underscored another major oversight, which is the lack of mandatory coronavirus safety measures on capitol grounds.

My next two guests say that Congress isn't doing enough to keep themselves safe.

[14:55:00]

Kendra Barkoff is a former aide to Senators Bob Casey and Dick Durbin. She's also the former press secretary to then-Vice President Joe Biden. And Doug Heye is a CNN political commentator. He's also the former RNC communications director.

And you two actually came together to co-write an op-ed in "The Washington Post" late last year calling for mandatory coronavirus testing on Capitol Hill.

Is that enough, Kendra? Walk us through the safety risks that lawmakers face right now without this.

KENDRA BARKOFF LAMY, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY TO VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Thank you for having me on, Brianna.

It's, frankly, not just the lawmakers. It's also the staff of the congressional staff and the staff who go to the capitol complex every day. There's still not mandatory testing for the staff, for members. And

there's still not mandatory mask wearing for the staff who are on Capitol Hill either.

It's putting everybody from the capitol complex who work at the capitol complex at risk but also those who, you know, when the members get on planes and travel elsewhere could put others at risk as well.

KEILAR: And so, this is a sort of a bipartisan effort certainly in bringing this forward between you two.

Kendra, you are, of course, a Democrat.

You are a Republican, Doug.

What are you hearing, Doug, from people who you know who work on the Hill, who are watching what's going on, on the Hill, about why this is so essential?

And how much of a reality is getting this done for Congress and all of the staffers around these members?

DOUG HEYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The main thing I hear is that it's really difficult. Congress has taken a lackadaisical approach to this over the past several months and continue to do so.

Part of that is members are pampered. That's the reality on Capitol Hill. Republicans and Democrats freshman or committee chairman, you are pampered as a member of Congress. You are a pin that quite often is a shield from all the other things that anybody member of the public or staff or journalists have to face.

But you aren't shielded from COVID. And the reality is anybody who comes in the capitol can bring it in.

We saw last week a very obvious leap. The presidential chain of succession be under direct threat by the insurrection.

The reality is they've also been under threat as has every other member of Congress, staffer, support staff, journalist, anybody who goes into the capitol because there's not mandatory testing or mandatory mask wearing throughout the complex. There's no mandatory vaccines.

Which also means, as Kendra said, they can spread it to 435 communities throughout the country.

KEILAR: That's right. These folks, as you mentioned, are going back. They're flying back to their home districts, to their states.

And, Kendra, watching that video of the room where you saw members of the House convening last week, and you saw some Republicans who were refusing to wear masks.

I think that was a reminder for all of us that there's a rule that masks must be worn on the House floor. But you can actually walk around. if you choose not to, if you're a

member of Congress and not wear a mask. That is OK on Capitol Hill.

BARKOFF LAMY: You're right. And to be honest, it's pretty disgusting. And it's disgraceful.

It's an insult to every frontline worker who puts their life at risk every single day going to work to save the lives of those others who do get sick from the coronavirus.

It should be a requirement that anywhere on capitol grounds you have to wear a mask regardless of who you are.

And it should be a requirement that everybody on capitol grounds gets tested both before you go there and after. There are ways that can do it.

The capitol physician, I will say, has not done what he has supposed to have done. He's allowed members to testify and to be a part of hearings who have had COVID. He's allowed them to show up for votes.

Congress should lead by example. They should have all of these requirements. And they should quarantine if they get sick and follow the guidance and the rules that the CDC has laid out and that every other American should also be following.

KEILAR: And I think, Doug, we know -- and I want to ask you about something separate from coronavirus.

But it sorts of speaks to this idea that members of Congress, they are treated like they're special and they come to expect that treatment.

We saw mags, magnetometers, metal detectors gong onto the House floor. There were a number of Republicans upset by this.

What did you make of this back and forth between Republicans and Democrats on that?

HEYE: It should be pretty simple. There are metal detectors that are at every capitol entrance. Instead of putting them in front of the House chamber, just make the members go through that as they would otherwise.

Every time I entered the capitol with a member of Congress, with former majority leader, Cantor, or recently just a few weeks ago with a member of Congress, I skipped through that line.

I could have been packing heat every time, and there'd be no way to check that.

Whether that's a House floor or in a hallway, just as with COVID, you just don't know what people have.

KEILAR: For the record, you are not packing heat, Doug Heye. We just want to make that very clear.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Doug Heye, Kendra Barkoff, thank you so much for joining together and talking to me today, both of you.

[15:00:03]

HEYE: Thank you.

BARKOFF LAMY: Thank you.

KEILAR: Our special coverage continues now with Brooke Baldwin.