Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Soon: Pence Attends Briefing on Inauguration Security; 20,000 National Guard Troops Expected in D.C. for Biden Inauguration; Feds Warn Extremists Emboldened After Last Week's Capitol Siege; Source: Trump Isolated, Wallowing in Self-Pity in White House. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired January 14, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:05]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Our special coverage continues now with Brooke Baldwin.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Brianna, I'll take it.

Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN. Thank you so much for being with

Just a heads up for all of us, very shortly, Vice President Mike Pence will be attending this briefing at FEMA headquarters focused on security at next week's inauguration ceremonies. So, we got our eye on that.

This meeting today comes as 20,000 National Guard members descend upon Washington, and law enforcement built this giant fence all around the U.S. Capitol in an effort to stave off another attack.

Meanwhile, there's this new intelligence report that's coming out that's warning that domestic extremists are now more emboldened to carry out an attack on or after Inauguration Day because last week's insurrection was so successful.

Where is the president in all of this? Good question. He is holed up in the White House as the walls continue to cave in. CNN has learned the outgoing commander in chief is in, quote, self-pity mode, lashing out at those not defending him more. He's also renewing the prospects of a self-pardon just one day after making history as the only president to be impeached twice.

Let's start there at the White House to our chief White House correspondent we go, Jim Acosta.

And, Jim, let's begin -- can you just speak to the split screen here between the vice president attending these security briefings and the president having a pity party?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. I mean, that's basically what's been going on for several days now, Brooke. I will tell you, you know, you talk to sources close to the White House, people inside the White House. They describe a situation where the president is basically isolated, behind closed doors. He's whining about this impeachment. He's whining about being held responsible for what happened on January 6th.

He's also sort of casting off advisers and aides who aren't telling him what he wants to hear. And you're right, there is a split screen because Vice President Mike Pence is almost acting like a de facto president right now. He's attending briefings like you said, national security briefings on inauguration security preps and so on. And it is a striking sort of way to look at the end of the Trump presidency.

Donald Trump, who at times, liked to watch TV about his presidency more than being president, is sort of behaving in that manner as things wrap up.

And I just want to show you some video of what's happening over here at the White House right now, Brooke. They are starting to put up bunting on some of the construction over here at the White House that is taking place for the Biden inauguration that is going to take place next week. We're seeing video of that right now. You can see they put up bunting that says "Biden/Harris inauguration 2021." It's on some of these risers that are facing the White House.

So, presumably, Brooke, the president could look out his windows right now and see this bunting go up. That is obviously not going to sit well with the president, seeing those kinds of preps going on when he in fact is thinking he hasn't lost the election. In addition to that, we are seeing what looks like moving day over at the White House. You are seeing things -- items coming and going from the West Wing. We saw Larry Kudlow leaving earlier today. Here's some video of a bust of Abraham Lincoln being carried out of the West Wing.

People need to know that the items inside the White House are not giveaways. They're not souvenirs you can take home. This is not an estate sale or antique road show. But yet you're seeing some White House staffers taking mementos with them as they go, Peter Navarro was caught on camera taking a jumbo photograph of himself and the president dealing with the Chinese.

And so it is a strange sort of surreal look at the end days of the Trump presidency. But that's what we're in the midst of right now. In the meantime, we should also point out the president, he has not been able to use his Twitter feed for the last several days. The White House just released a statement a short while ago, a statement from the president that claims to be from the president. We believe it's from the president. And it talks about how he's happy about the drawdown of troops in Afghanistan.

I don't know if we can put that -- there's a statement we've got it up on screen there. Brooke, I just want to call your attention to this because it's written as if it's a tweet. It looks like a tweet, it reads like a tweet. There are the all caps and the misspellings and the bad grammar and so on, but it read -- it looks like a tweet.

And so, the president right now --

BALDWIN: He can't quit it, Jim.

ACOSTA: Because he can't tweet -- he just can't quite it, because he can't tweet these things out, now the White House press office is putting out tweet-like statements from the president and emailing them out to us sort of the old-fashioned way of doing things. But I remember the day when Sean Spicer, the former White House press secretary once said, Brooke, that the president's tweets are statements, are official statements from the president of the United States. So perhaps we've come full circle in all of us -- Brooke.

BALDWIN : Full circle in, oh, so many ways and I'm still back on the notion of people taking mementos from this White House, I'm like, is this really a time you want to remember? Is this really a place where you want to grab these mementos?

But we'll leave it there. Jim Acosta, thank you so much.

[15:05:01]

ACOSTA: You got it, you got it.

BALDWIN: As Washington remains on edge, tens of thousands of National Guard troops are on their way in an effort to secure the nation's capitol.

CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is live for us there in Washington.

And, Shimon, so no one can go to the National Mall on Inauguration Day? Explain that for us and just what sort of security preparations are in place.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the security here is just extraordinary, Brooke. It's intense. You can see behind me here is where the vice president, the President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect kamala Harris behind me. This is where they're going to take the oath, of course, this famous stage on Inauguration Day.

And what you see all of this area surrounded, it's surrounded by troops, National Guards personnel out here in force really. Does not look like the United States. This does not look like Washington, D.C. It really looks like they're almost protecting an embassy in a foreign country.

It's really remarkable, they're heavily armed, and they're just surrounding this entire area for blocks. We keep seeing more and more troops coming in. And they stretch all the way down the street here, all the way down. There's more personnel down this side, and there are military vehicles.

Also I want to show you something else. As an added layer of security, there's going to be new fencing put up here. This fencing here seems like they're going to be putting up, there are these metal barricades that they're going to be putting up along the roads here.

So this just added layers and layers of security. There are people still out here. I assume in the coming days people won't be allowed here. Behind this here, Brooke, I just want to show you briefly, this is where they're building out a lot of the inauguration stage, the areas where people are going to be, I guess, performances and such for the inauguration.

That's still very much ongoing. You can see they're building that out. But it's really remarkable to see the scene out here right now. It just does not feel like something you would see in this country, the military personnel surrounding the Capitol now, Brooke.

No, it's so striking, Shimon. We've all been out covering inaugurations for many, many presidents past, and just the difference. You know, here we are, this is America.

Shimon, thank you on the Mall there in front of the Capitol.

BALDWIN: Now, these security preps come as federal investigators have issued a sober warning, extremists just like those behind last week's insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, are now likely more emboldened to carry out further attacks.

CNN's Jessica Schneider is in Washington.

And, Jessica, why? Why do these investigators think people feel more emboldened?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Brooke, this is all based on what investigators are seeing as they're scouring social media and taking in tips. They're seeing this chatter that indicates these extremists believe that they were successful when they stormed and attacked the Capitol last week, and now they're emboldened to take further action.

So this is how a law enforcement bulletin that we've obtained reads, in part. It says, with the perception among some extremists that the breach of the U.S. Capitol building was a significant advance towards achieving their ideological goals. They may be inspired to carry out more violence. And the bulletin overall, it projects that possible targets here could not only be government officials, government buildings but maybe even racial and religious minorities.

And, Brooke, this bulletin says that conspiracy theories are driving this possible extremist violence, the same conspiracy theories that we're often hearing from the president.

So law enforcement, they are working to tackle these threats from every angle. Local agencies are sending help here to Washington. We know that FBI Director Chris Wray held a call yesterday alerting officials across the country, about the threats in all 50 state capitols. So, this is far and wide and law enforcement is just trying to wrap its head around all of the threats that are out there -- Brooke. BALDWIN: And wrapping their heads around all the arrests that are now coming in from last week. I know authorities arrested one of the guys seen on the video hitting a Capitol Hill police officer with a fire extinguisher. Who is he?

SCHNEIDER: Right. We're seeing multiple people charged every day. So, Brooke, the latest you just mention school district a retired Chester, Pennsylvania, firefighter. He is accused of striking --

BALDWIN: A firefighter?

SCHNEIDER: Right, exactly, a firefighter accused of striking multiple officers with a fire extinguisher. You can see the video here, in this criminal complaint. It identifies the man in the video out to the Capitol.

It's Robert Sanford. He's in that video wearing a backpack and dark plaid shirt. He appears to pick up a fire extinguisher, throws it at officers, it hits another officer in the back of their helmet and ricochets and hits another officer without a helmet before striking a third officer. You can see that video right there.

So that's one set of charges against someone who, you know, swore to uphold the laws of this country, and more charges just announced against a father and son in Delaware who entered the Capitol.

[15:10:05]

The father Kevin Siefried, he was pictured holding that Confederate flag. And, Brooke, we know that now he and his son have been arrested. In fact, the person in that picture right there, he admitted to the FBI that he brought his Confederate flag from his Delaware home where he usually displays it.

So these arrests are coming quickly. And there are a lot of them and there are a lot to come, Brooke, a lot happening with law enforcement.

BALDWIN: Un-American. Jess, thank you. Jessica Schneider in Washington.

Joining me now to discuss all of this, Anthony Ferrante. He's a CNN law enforcement analyst and a former FBI special agent.

So, Anthony, thank you so much for jumping on with me.

And I just want to begin with the notion that some of these folks are feeling more emboldened because of how, quote/unquote successful they were last week at the insurrection at the Capitol. And officials are worried now they're going to come back and really be ready.

What do you make of a chilling morning like that?

ANTHONY FERRANTE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yeah, it's certainly concerning, Brooke. I just want to say that Shimon was just reporting on the west side of the Capitol. I am on the east side of the Capitol in a traditional residential neighborhood here in the United States of America. And outside my front door I have 12 members of the National Guard standing opposed with automatic weapons.

BALDWIN: I mean, did you ever in a million years think that you would ever be seeing that?

FERRANTE: Yeah, it's unbelievable to me. I mean, I traveled all over the globe, and this security around the U.S. Capitol right now, and that's one thing I really want to drive the point home to your viewers is, this isn't security around the Capitol itself. This is security around Washington, D.C.

It is 100 percent in residential neighborhoods and affecting our way of life. That noise you may be hearing are the barricades that they're putting up on on my street right now. So, it's very surreal. And the fact that what happened last week is now emboldening these actors is extremely concerning. I can tell you for certainty that the FBI is 100 percent all hands on deck.

Why do I know that? Is because throughout the last few days, contacts around the country have called me with concerning information. And I have connected them with FBI agents at their local field office, and when I speak with the FBI agents they say it's unbelievable. We are working 24/7 running down thousands of leads.

BALDWIN: Good on you for connecting them because we're talking security, yes, not just around Washington, but across the country. And just to remind our viewers, some of these U.S. Capitols allow open carry, right? So the danger is exponentially greater when you know as a law enforcement officer trying to keep people safe, you know that people could be there and armed.

How does law enforcement prepare for that?

FERRANTE: Yeah, it's super difficult. That's why we all need to come together. I mean, listen, we've all lived the last few years, we've all seen what's transpired live in the United States, OK?

This is an attack on our democracy. We need to come together as communities, look down the street, left, right, look at your neighbors, report anything that's concerning. Please don't sit home and only rely on the FBI. Everybody plays an active role. And we can all come together and help.

And that is what is super important and we need to do right now. Inauguration of the president of the United States is supposed to be a celebration. And right now, the United States is hunkering down for war. If you walk outside my door right now, you would think you were in a Green Zone of a war -- of a country laced with war right now. That's not who we are the United States. And I just want everybody across the country to know that we're better than this and we need to and together and unite.

BALDWIN: Thank you for that. Anthony Ferrante in Washington, I appreciate you. Stay safe.

Preparations for the Senate impeachment trial are also underway. And we are learning President-elect Joe Biden is having a lot of conversations with the Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

Plus, some Republicans are straight up whining over the addition of metal detectors on Capitol Hill, refusing to cooperate and even shouting at police officers. And all of this is unfolding as the pandemic is raging like never before, and the vaccination effort is still way behind. We have to talk about this today.

You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:41]

BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being here.

Donald Trump's second Senate trial will take place after President- elect Joe Biden is inaugurated next Wednesday. And assuming all 50 Democrats say he is guilty of incitement of insurrection and at least 17 Republican senators would have to join them to get that conviction, that could be a heavy lift.

For that, let's go to Manu Raju who is on Capitol Hill for us.

And, Manu, even though Mitch McConnell is, you know, losing his role as Senate majority leader in the new administration, he is about to become the most powerful Republican in the country. Does he hold the keys to conviction?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In short answer, yes. He will be hugely influential about what ultimately will come down here. And he is almost certainly going to go the way the conference ultimately goes in determining whether Donald Trump should be convicted or acquitted.

And talking to several people today, Republican sources, it's clear that he is undecided. He has not made up his mind yet. He says genuinely privately to his colleagues he is trying to -- he will listen to the arguments presented by both sides before determining which way to go.

Now in talking to a number of Republicans, they're splitting into several different camps. There are some who are siding with the House Republican argument saying impeachment is a divisive issue and they shouldn't go down that route.

There are others that say the president's conduct was reprehensible but not necessarily impeachable, and questioning whether or not it's even constitutional to go down the route of impeaching a former president after he leaves office.

[15:20:11]

Others say it's clearly constitutional to going down that route.

And then there are some Republicans who are just simply not sure. They want to lay down a marker and say that no president should act this way ever again and they're willing to consider conviction but have not made that final decision. In that camp, there's Lisa Murkowski, the Alaska Republican senator. She voted to acquit the president back in 2019 but she has called on the president to resign after the aftermath of the riots and says such unlawful actions cannot go without consequence. And the House has responded swiftly and I believe appropriately with impeachment.

She just said that in a statement that she put out. She said though she would listen to the evidence and ultimately decide where to come down. But, Brooke, again, it would require not just her but 16 of her other colleagues to join all 50 Democrats that they stay on the same page.

And we'll see what the world looks like in a few weeks when the House Democrats will have to lay out their case. They'll have to convince Republicans that they're making a constitutional argument. We'll see what new information comes out. And, of course, we'll see how the motions are still raw at that time when Republicans ultimately decide which way to come down here, Brooke.

BALDWIN: I want to play this forward with my next guest. Manu, thank you so much for setting up all of what could happen.

Joining me now, CNN senior political analyst David Gergen. He served as an adviser to four presidents, and, Laurence Tribe, constitutional law professor at Harvard Law School, who advised House Democrats on President Trump's first impeachment investigation. But he is also the author of "To End a Presidency: The Power of Impeachment."

So, gentlemen, welcome.

And, Larry Tribe, to you first, sir. I want to start with you in the words from Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas. So, this is what he said. The Founders designed the impeachment process as a way to remove officeholders from public office, not an inquest against private citizens.

You know, point being, by the time the Senate would take this up, President Trump would then be out of office. But, Larry, you don't agree with Tom Cotton. Tell me why.

LAURENCE TRIBE, CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: Because Tom Cotton's view would mean that someone who is about to be convicted by the Senate could just resign to avoid being barred permanently from future office. Actually, there's a precedent. In 1876, the secretary of War William Belknap pleaded with the White House to let him resign before he was impeached because it was clear he was about to be impeached.

But he couldn't get away from facing the music. And even though he resigned, the Congress went ahead to impeach him, and the Senate went ahead to consider him. And by a vote of 37-29 they ruled I think quite rightly that even if you're no longer in office at the time of the impeachment occurs and certainly at the time the trial occurs, Congress has a responsibility to carry out its duty. So I think it's clear that the fact that Trump is trying to run out

the clock will not prevent him from being subject to the Senate's power to try and convict him and rule that he can never again hold public office.

BALDWIN: Your point here is key as we move on in this conversation. David Gergen to you, let's look ahead to what is next in the U.S. Senate. Clearly, the president's video last night was directed to Mitch McConnell.

You know, what will the Senate trial look like? When will it happen? Would witnesses be called? Or do you think it would be just a quick vote?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I hope the witnesses will be called so that the country will have a chance to hear the full arguments on both sides. It's especially important because Donald Trump and his forces have convinced many, many conservatives, you know, 70 percent of the Republican Party believes that Biden is going to be an illegitimate president. And, frankly, Biden and his team need to explain to the country why that's not true. So, I think that's (INAUDIBLE) purpose.

If you don't mind, I'd like to pose a second question to Larry Tribe because I keep imagining or wonder figure the Trump people can throw two monkey wrenches into legal proceedings that are just ahead of us. First, if he self-pardons on the day before January 20th, and secondly, after January 20th, whether he raises a second constitutional question, and that is one you've just been discussing with Brooke about does the Constitution say that the Senate can convict somebody who's out of office?

Both of those issues might go to the Supreme Court and lengthen the whole process, Brooke.

[15:25:01]

So that's why I'm curious where Larry Tribe is.

BALDWIN: Yeah, Larry, I love to hear you. I feel like you've answered question number two. But to the first point about if Trump decides to pardon himself sort of on the eve of this, you know, Senate trial of potential conviction, would that then take him out of harm's way?

TRIBE: No. I mean, the Constitution is very explicit that the pardon power does not extend to impeachment. So, that one is a red herring.

The second question that David asks is an interesting one. But I don't think the answer is that it would delay anything. The Supreme Court is not about to plunge itself into the middle of the hottest political potato of all time.

If the president were to argue that having pardoned myself, I'm above the law, I think he would have to contend with the United States Senate and not just with the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court would not rescue him. BALDWIN: Here's -- I want to jump in, Larry, I have another question

for you. If the Senate does not convict Donald Trump with just the House vote, can Trump be barred from ever running for office?

TRIBE: It's possible, because Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment says that anyone who is engaged in insurrection against the United States can never again hold any public office, state or federal.

And I'm working with a number of people in Congress to deal with the question, if Donald Trump is not convicted and barred by a vote of the Senate, nonetheless be permanently excluded by operation of this very important provision after the civil war, a provision that became part of the Constitution in 1868.

So, Donald Trump faces a ton of trouble no matter which way he turns.

BALDWIN: David, back over to you. You brought up the pardon issue. And I have more of a political looking at that just through the political lens, because sources are telling CNN that he could issue this potential flurry of pardons, perhaps even including himself.

Would it -- if Trump pardons himself, is that not essentially an admission of guilt? Or do you think he could try to do it or something else just as a distraction?

GERGEN: I think he could argue basically, it's not admission of guilt, just impeachment they put me on trial. So in that sense I think -- I think this could go a lot of different ways.

But there is one other issue, Brooke. I'm really concerned about this. And maybe Professor Tribe will be helpful. It sounds like we may have more than one lawsuit. It could be multiple lawsuits that revolve around these things and could take a while.

Joe Biden, in contrast, wants to hit the ground running. He's going to get his people confirmed. He needs to get going on (INAUDIBLE) public behind him. And we have Donald Trump floating around hovering over all of this for week after week after week. That could be very destructive, make it very difficult for Biden to govern.

So -- and is there a way that Biden people can get through all this quickly so they can start governing?

BALDWIN: What do you think? Just quickly, Larry.

TRIBE: Absolutely. They don't need to be distracted. All of his lawsuits, dozens of them, didn't delay anything in the run-up to the inauguration of the 20th. They won't delay anything here. They'll simply be sand in the gears, but they will not be sand that stops the gears from running smoothly.

BALDWIN: Larry Tribe, David Gergen, gentlemen, thank you so, so much. So many questions, we will continue this conversation, I am sure. Gentlemen, thank you.

Soon, President-elect Joe Biden will unveil his $2 trillion COVID relief plan. It does include a plan for $2,000 checks. We have those details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)