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House GOP Leader McCarthy Defends Congresswoman Liz Cheney As Republicans Battle Amid Impeachment Fallout; Impeachment-Vote Split Sows Division with Republican Party; D.C. on Lockdown As Inauguration Nears; D.C. on Lockdown as Threats Grow Ahead of Inauguration Day; Police Officers Describe Brutal Attack from Pro-Trump Mob at the Capitol. Aired 9-9:30a ET
Aired January 15, 2021 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:33]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, here we are. Friday. A very good morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Poppy Harlow. We're so glad you're with us.
Well, this morning our nation's capital is looking a lot more like a combat zone than the seat of democracy. The thousands of National Guard troops in Washington that are there are there because of increased security because of these direct threats, Jim, ahead of Inauguration Day.
SCIUTTO: Yes. There'll be more than 20,000 by Inauguration Day.
HARLOW: Yes.
SCIUTTO: And I'd say, I've been assigned all over the world for 25 years. I have never seen a military presence like this outside a war zone. I'm talking Kabul, Baghdad.
It's now been nine days since the deadly mob attack on the U.S. Capitol. And FBI Director Chris Wray says that more than 100 people have now been arrested. Some 200 suspects have been identified. And Wray says their time is running out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: We know who you are. If you're out there and FBI agents are coming to find you. Anybody who plots or attempts violence in the coming week should count on a visit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Really important words there from the FBI director. And take a look at this. Look at this horrific video. We are now hearing from three of the officers attacked by the violent mob of Trump protesters on the 6th of January. The Metro police officer, who was crushed in this doorway gasping for help in this shocking video, describes for the first time those chilling moments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OFFICER DANIEL HODGES, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE: A guy ripping my mask off and he was able to rip away my baton, and beat me with it. And he was practically foaming at the mouth. So just these people were true believers in the worst way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Patriots. They attacked police officers. All this as President Trump prepares to move out of the White House just five days from now, though he has yet to concede the election or recognize or meet his successor. But President-elect Joe Biden is moving forward. He's now laying the groundwork to rescue the economy and the pandemic with a $1.9 trillion stimulus package. It is ambitious. Signals that he intends to hit the ground running.
HARLOW: Yes. It certainly does. Let's begin this hour with Pete Muntean. He joins us with more on the efforts to secure the inauguration.
Good morning to you, Pete. What is taking place this morning?
PETE MUNTEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Poppy. This perimeter only getting larger. The fortress here around the Capitol only getting more intense.
We are blocks away from the Capitol and we have shown you the eight- foot fence that has gone up here. Now more of this we have learned will go up around the National Mall and new overnight is this 12-foot fence here based in concrete outside of the Capitol.
Even if somebody did make it over this fence, they'll be met by some of the 20,000 armed members of the National Guard that are here. The Pentagon says it is especially concerned about improvised explosive devices like the pipe bombs found outside the RNC and the DNC. And security officials here say the threat is very real.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEN CUCCINELLI, ACTING DEPUTY SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Some of the online chatter that you and I were talking about before talks about Sunday the 17th. Again, no specific, credible threats but the chatter focused on that day is something we're paying close attention to. And so I think the decision was made to delay a day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MUNTEAN: We know that an inauguration rehearsal set for Sunday has now been moved to Monday but this is going to be an inauguration like no other. Look at Pennsylvania Avenue here. This is the parade route from the Capitol to the White House. No bunting. No Port-O-Potties, no jumbotron. Possibly very little crowds. This is going to be very, very different -- Jim and Poppy. HARLOW: So different, Pete Muntean. Thank you for the reporting this
morning.
And as you heard at the top, brave police officers, those tasked with guarding the U.S. Capitol during the attack last week are now offering vivid accounts of the dramatic encounters with rioters claiming, as you said, Jim, claiming to be patriots.
SCIUTTO: Listen, their lives were in danger. One of them, while he was on the ground, heard one of the rioters say kill him with his own gun. Now one of those officers is still suffering from the effects of a mild heart attack after these violent rioters tased him several times, stripped him of his gear.
CNN's Shimon Prokupecz joins us now from Washington.
[09:05:03]
Listen, Shimon, as we get more details, both from the videos and from these firsthand accounts, this is becoming much worse. I mean, the level of violence but specifically the violence targeting uniformed members of the law enforcement.
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes. It truly is, Jim. And when you hear these officers speak for the first time, we've seen the videos, we've seen the pictures of them being violently, viciously attacked inside the Capitol, but when you listen to them talk about what they went through, it paints a much more terrifying picture.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED RIOTERS: USA! USA! USA!
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): In last week's deadly coup attempt at the U.S. Capitol, a pro-Trump mob swarmed the building, outnumbering and battling police officers fighting to defend it.
OFFICER MICHAEL FANONE, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE: It was difficult to offer any resistance when you're only 30 guys going up against 15,000.
PROKUPECZ: D.C. Metro Police Officer Michael Fanone was in this group of officers at the west front entrance of the Capitol as rioters forced their way in. They eventually pushed him out into the crowd where Fanone says he was tasered several times. While trapped, the 40- year-old says he thought about using his gun to fight back.
FANONE: Some guy started getting a hold of my gun and they were screaming out, you know, kill him with his own gun. At that point, you know, it was just like self-preservation. You know, how do I survive this situation? And I thought about, you know, using deadly force. I thought about shooting people. And then I just came to the conclusion that, you know, if I was to do that, you know, I might get a few, but I'm not going to take everybody and they'll probably take my gun away from me and that would definitely give them the justification that they were looking for to kill me if they already didn't have -- made that up in their minds.
So the other option I thought of was, you know, try to appeal to somebody's humanity, and I just remember yelling out that I have kids, and it seemed to work. Some people in the crowd started to encircle me and try to offer me some level of protection.
A lot of people have asked me, you know, my thoughts on the individuals in the crowd that -- you know, that helped me or tried to offer some assistance and I think kind of the conclusion I've come to is like, you know, thank you, but (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you for being there.
PROKUPECZ: This horrifying video shows the moment the violent mob storms into a tunnel of the building. Trapping and crushing D.C. Metro Police Officer Daniel Hodges by a door.
HODGES: There's a guy ripping my mask off and he was able to rip away my baton and beat me with it. And he was practically foaming at the mouth. So just -- these people were true believers in the worst way.
When things were looking bad, you know, obviously, I was calling out for all I was worth and an officer behind me was able to get me enough room to pull me out of there, and they brought me to the rear so I was able to extricate myself.
PROKUPECZ: Hodges miraculously leaving the attack without any major injuries, saying he was shocked. Some rioters thought authorities would be on their side.
HODGES: The cognitive dissonance and the zealotry of these people is unreal. You know, they were waving the thin blue line flag and telling us, you know, we're not your enemies, while they were attacking us. And, you know, killed one of us. Some of them felt like we would be -- like some of them felt like we would be fast friends because so many of them have been vocal or at least virtue signaling their support for the police over the past year.
They say things like, you know, we've been supporting you through all those Black Lives Matter stuff. You should have our back. And they felt like entitled. They felt like they would just walk up there and tell us that they're here to take back Congress and we would agree with them and we'd walk in hand in hand and just take over the nation. But obviously, that did not -- that was not the case, and it will never be the case.
PROKUPECZ: The insurrectionists even using unusual means in their efforts to break into the most secure areas of the U.S. Capitol Building.
OFFICER CHRISTINA LAURY, D.C. METROPOLITICAL POLICE: The individuals were pushing, shoving officers, hitting officers. They were spraying us with what we were calling essentially bear mace. It was two to three hours of, you know, heroism and bravery from these officers. I mean, the violence that they, you know, were -- I mean, they were getting hit with metal objects, metal poles. I remember seeing pitch forks. You know, they're getting sprayed, knocked down. And I remember, you know, just reinforcements, just officers pulling
officers back to heal up and, you know, them stepping in to get to the front line. And then they go down and then, you know, more officers step in.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[09:10:06]
PROKUPECZ: And what you hear that officer there describing is exactly what law enforcement officials have been telling us. It is the work of the MPD, the D.C. Police who were called in as reinforcement when the Capitol Police were overwhelmed. It saved lives. The lawmakers. They were able to move lawmakers out of harm's way because of the battle that the D.C. police were fighting. It gave the Capitol Police time to move some of our lawmakers, some of the leaders of this country out of harm's way.
HARLOW: Yes. True heroes. Shimon, I am so glad that we are hearing from them and thank you for bringing their stories to us this morning.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HARLOW: Well, still to come, President-elect Biden introduces a huge economic rescue plan. It includes stimulus payments. Many more details on this $1.9 trillion plan ahead.
SCIUTTO: It's ambitious. It's huge. And with security preps under way for our nation's Capitol ahead of the inauguration, the FBI director has a stark message for those involved in the riot. We know who you are, and FBI agents are coming to find you.
Plus, major changes in store for the vaccine rollout under President- elect Biden. We're going to speak to a key member of the Biden COVID Advisory Board next. What it means for you and your family just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:15:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CO-ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: Well, the question of impeachment is dividing Republicans as the Senate gears up for its trial so much so that the number one Republican in the house, Congressman Kevin McCarthy is now defending the number three Republican, Congresswoman Liz Cheney. This as at least two sitting lawmakers from their party call for her to be ousted from her leadership position after she voted yes on impeachment. With me now is Republican Congressman Andy Barr of Kentucky. Congressman, thank you for taking time this morning.
REP. ANDY BARR (R-KY): Jim, good to be with you.
SCIUTTO: You called the president's rhetoric on January 6th, quoting here, "regrettable and irresponsible." You voted -- biggest picture, general question here, does the president in your view share the blame for what followed his words? BARR: Yes, the president here is not blameless, but ultimately, I
voted against impeachment because as a legal matter, the Supreme Court has set the standard for what constitutes criminal incitement in a way that doesn't violate the First Amendment. And here, based on the facts, the president's conduct, while unfortunate, did not rise to the level of the legal definition of incitement. But beyond the legal analysis, I think the real point here is that with only seven days left in this president's term, what does impeachment actually accomplish? It looked to me -- and every member, Republican and Democrat had to make their own judgment. But it looked to me more like an act of political vengeance as opposed to actually trying to uphold the standards of the presidency. And again, what I would say is, let's follow the advice of the president-elect and let's try to do what we can to bring the country together to turn the page, heal and unite the country.
SCIUTTO: I get that desire. And I'm sure most people watching right now are eager to heal. But the fact is we're learning more about just how violent this riot was. I mean, the assaults on law enforcement are, I'm sure you'll agree, alarming. And the thing about the president's comments were not just the comments on January 6th, but his comments leading up to it, circling that date on the calendar and since then, refusing for days to call them off, right? I mean, as this was under way, the president would not say, get away from the Capitol, you know, I do not support this as it continued. And I just wondered, you know, from a -- because remember, this is not just about the criminal law, right, it's about the constitution. If that's not impeachable, what is?
BARR: So, you know, what I would say is, I do think that probably the most regrettable part of it was the fact that the president's inappropriately insinuated or suggested that the vice president somehow had the power to not count --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
BARR: The election returns when the constitution and the Electoral Count Act simply do not give the vice president that discretion. You're right. I mean, the president should have taken more decisive action after these terrible pictures were coming out of these criminals who were --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
BARR: Beating these heroic Capitol Hill police. I interact with Capitol Hill police every single day. These are brave men and women who protect our nation's democratic temple, and I have so much respect for them. And it was just heartbreaking --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
BARR: To hear your last segment and to hear -- and to see those images. You know, the Republican Party is the party of law and order. And so we -- I would say to everybody that whether it's the incursion into the Capitol building, the violence, the mayhem or the violence that we saw over the Summer with some of the fires and looting of innocent small businesses, anyone who engages in political violence should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. And there should be --
SCIUTTO: OK --
BARR: No double standards.
SCIUTTO: As -- you voted against impeachment. Your colleague Liz Cheney, number three in the Republican leadership, voted for it. And there's now a group, including Jim Jordan, who want to take that leadership role away from her. Do you support or oppose that movement?
BARR: You know, I think every member has an independent judgment to make on impeachment or certification of the election, and every member represents a different district.
[09:20:00]
And I think members should be free to vote their conscience and vote their district. I will say that the House Republican Conference chairperson has a unique role in that, they speak for the conference. And if the conference chair is out of step with the majority of the conference, that could be a problem. I'm sure that we will be having those discussions in the days to come -- and I'm friends with Liz Cheney. She and I have a difference of opinion on impeachment, but I think I owe it to her to give her the opportunity to speak to the conference and explain her vote.
SCIUTTO: OK, so, you haven't decided then is what you're saying?
BARR: That's right. That's right. I want to hear from --
SCIUTTO: OK --
BARR: All sides and listen to the debate.
SCIUTTO: You're a lawyer. The president is said to be considering pardoning himself for what happened January 6th and other possibility of other legal exposure. Can a president in your view, pardon himself?
BARR: I think he can. I think the president's executive pardon power is plenary. And again, I would hope that it wouldn't come to that. I would hope that the vice president or the president-elect would follow his own rhetoric and say, look, we need to turn the page. I think, you know, the Republican Party has some soul searching to do here about our future, but so does the Democratic Party. And I think the Democratic Party and President-elect Biden and the congressional leaders in the Democratic Party need to decide, do they want their party to be singularly focused on political vengeance and hate towards the -- this current president or do they want to pursue a policy agenda and better yet, do they want to pursue a bipartisan policy agenda that has the prospect of bringing the country together? I hope --
SCIUTTO: OK -- BARR: That instead of obsessing about the former president, we can
come together, Republicans and Democrats, bring the country together and look at the reality that there are millions --
SCIUTTO: OK --
BARR: Of Americans on the right and the left who feel left behind, and we need to come together and help those people.
SCIUTTO: Understood. I just -- listen, on that question, though, I mean, you were in Congress for the last four years. Was there an effort to bring the country together either from the Republican leadership in the house or this president? I mean, I don't think many people --
BARR: Well --
SCIUTTO: Saw evidence of that.
BARR: Yes, Jim, I think there's a lot of blame to go around. And I think just to point the finger at the president is wrong. You know, there was a lot of Democrats in this country and in the media who never accepted this president from the very beginning --
SCIUTTO: Right --
BARR: And perpetuated what turned out to be a totally false narrative of Russian collusion, and said even that the president had --
SCIUTTO: Wow --
BARR: Suggested he was an agent of Russia. And we dragged this country through impeachment and the Mueller investigation, and so look, yes, there's blame to go around. But the bottom line is, we do need to bring the country together. We need --
SCIUTTO: Well --
BARR: We've got -- we still have COVID. We still have --
SCIUTTO: OK --
BARR: Problems with the economy related to the pandemic. Let's focus on those things --
SCIUTTO: OK --
BARR: That the American people actually care about.
SCIUTTO: Let's talk about big tech just before we go, and I'm sorry to -- but just has to be brief. You have expressed outrage that Twitter permanently banned a U.S. president. Of course, there are other social media platforms -- you know, Parler for instance has been taken off Amazon right now. I just wonder, if banning is not the solution, what is the way to get -- the president lied via Twitter repeatedly about the election and other things. He encouraged people to turn up January 6th on Parler. Listen, Amazon pushed Parler to take down a whole host of posts, calling for violence against members of Congress, your colleagues. Should people allow -- be allowed to call for violence via social media?
BARR: No, and that's the problem. The problem is the double standard. The fact that Twitter bans a U.S. president, but they don't take down the Ayatollah Khomeini who calls for the destruction of Israel and the killing of U.S. service members. It's the fact that Twitter hosts a hashtag that says kill Trump or assassinate Trump, and they don't take that down --
SCIUTTO: Well, should they both be taken down then? Shouldn't then the president --
BARR: Well, sure --
SCIUTTO: Where he pushes for violence and the Ayatollah be taken down? Shouldn't both of them?
BARR: The problem, Jim, is the hypocrisy. The problem is that Twitter takes down the -- and whether you view those words as offensive or not, they don't take down messages that encourage killing police officers. So Jack Dorsey, the CEO of Twitter can't have it both ways. Either he has a politically neutral standard against violence or he does not. And the problem is selective censorship. The problem is that there's viewpoint discrimination. And Jack Dorsey --
SCIUTTO: OK --
BARR: The CEO of Twitter has now said that it's going beyond banning just the president's Twitter. It's going to be all conservative speech. And that is not --
SCIUTTO: You know --
BARR: Who we are as a country.
[09:25:00]
SCIUTTO: I'm not sure yet, and I would -- I just --
BARR: And it -- 230, section 230 --
SCIUTTO: Let's keep up the conversation because it is a longer conversation. I would just -- I would just look at the list of the things that Amazon asked Parler to take down that it did not. It's in -- it's in the legal filings there. That's a big question going forward. Congressman Andy Barr, we do appreciate you taking the time this morning.
BARR: Thank you. Thanks a lot, Jim.
POPPY HARLOW, CO-ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: That was a great interview. And Jim, you're totally right, I mean, that Amazon warned Parler for weeks and gave them extensive examples of violence, and Jack Dorsey did not say -- SCIUTTO: Yes --
HARLOW: They were taking down all conservative --
SCIUTTO: Some --
HARLOW: Speech.
SCIUTTO: Someone I know who is smart told me that this morning, Poppy --
HARLOW: I do -- but the point he made about -- you know, it's an important debate. I hope he comes back to more of it. But the point about Jack Dorsey is just not true. He didn't say --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
HARLOW: We're going to take down all conservative speech. All right, so the FBI is tracking extensive online chatter, calling for more violence as you just heard about in the wake of the insurrection last week. The attack is just the latest example of a violent right-wing extremist movement that has been growing in this country for years. Next, we're going to take a much closer look at it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
