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Democratic Leadership Discussing Senate Trial Schedule; Mike Pence Minutes from Mob; Facebook Weapon Ads Target Right-Wing Groups. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired January 15, 2021 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:31:12]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: The president has now been impeached; when will the Senate try him? That is still an open question this morning. We know it will not happen, however, before President-elect Joe Biden takes office. Will the House wait to hand over articles so that Biden and the Senate spend his first weeks in office focusing on his legislative agenda? Still an open question -- Poppy.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Well, exactly, let's get the reporting on this. The sources that we're hearing from say Republicans are torn over whether or not to convict the president. And even before we get to that point, Manu Raju on the Hill, is when will they have this trial? What do you know?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's the big question, what Nancy Pelosi will do. There's actually a debate within the House Democratic leadership team about when it makes sense to send over those articles of impeachment, because once you do that, it kicks forward the process that would begin the Senate trial the following day, at 1:00 in the afternoon, and they would continue to meet until there's a vote on whether to convict the president. And there's a discussion that to delay sending those over.

Now, heading up to the impeachment vote earlier this week, it had been pretty clear that Pelosi seemed very likely to send over those articles of impeachment soon, almost immediately. But at that point it was still uncertain what Mitch McConnell would do. The Senate majority leader, soon to be Senate minority leader, has informed the Senate that he will not bring the Senate back early.

So now the question is do they wait. There's still hope they get some clarity from Pelosi later this morning, she is talking to reporters. She has not said -- I tried to ask her multiple times after the impeachment vote -- when they may send over the impeachment articles, she declined to comment. So we'll see if she gives any clarity today.

But that is one of the big questions as they try to map up their case here, the impeachment managers do, because they're still meeting, preparing for a trial. But when will it happen.

SCIUTTO: There's some precedent here, because in the last impeachment she did wait, I believe, two or three weeks.

I wonder, has President-elect Biden made his preference clear to Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer on this? Is it his call, in effect?

RAJU: He's trying to make clear that he wants at least the Senate to continue to operate while the trial is going on, assuming it's going on in the early days of his administration.

Remember, the trial would not begin until about noon each day, so there would be an opportunity in the morning hours to get some legislative business done, to confirm some nominees. But that would also require the support of Republicans to set a schedule like that. The Senate is a body that requires unanimous consent, all hundred senators to agree essentially to set the schedule, to set votes. And if there's not an agreement, that could be problematic for the Biden agenda.

So those are the kind of questions they're sorting out. We're told from Chuck Schumer's office that there's discussions still ongoing with the Republicans about setting forward a schedule. So assuming that is hammered out a bit, perhaps then we'll get some clarity about when the trial will actually begin.

HARLOW: OK, Manu, thank you for the reporting.

[10:34:05]

President-elect Joe Biden says they will have to move heaven and earth -- his words -- to get more people vaccinated. He has a bold plan. That is, vaccinate 100 million people in 100 days. Can he do it?

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HARLOW: Breaking news in to CNN, we have just learned new information about just how frighteningly close that angry, violent mob was to getting the vice president during the riot at the Capitol just last week.

SCIUTTO: Minutes away, it seems. Jessica Schneider joins us again with more. What do we know? Those were harrowing moments before the vice president was spirited away to a saferoom from the floor of Congress. What are the details?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, perilously close, that is how close he came to maybe encountering these rioters who had breached the Capitol complex.

Now, this was all a minute-by-minute accounting that's been analyzed and put out there by the Washington Post, and it's really stunning because it does come down to just minutes, and in fact maybe even just one minute, between when those rioters breached and maybe were with sight of the vice president before he was whisked into another office.

So basically, the way the "Washington Post" has analyzed this, it basically says that Vice President Pence was not evacuated from the Senate chamber for 14 minutes after those rioters got into the Capitol complex.

[10:40:02]

You know, taking you back to that day, Vice President Pence was presiding, he was at the Senate dais overlooking the Senate floor, and the Capitol Police chief, Steven Sund, who has since resigned, he said that he gave the alert at about 1:00 p.m., that his officers would not be able to contain this riotous crowd.

And it was for another hour that Vice President Pence continued to preside over the Senate. And when you take a look more closely, it shows that Vice President Pence wasn't whisked away until those rioters were even inside the Capitol. So it says that for 14 minutes, after the Capitol Police reported that initial breach, that is still when Vice President Pence was at the Senate dais.

Now, he was eventually whisked away to a nearby office, he was there with his wife as well as his daughter. But then they say one minute after Pence -- and this is striking -- one minute after Pence was hustled out of the chamber, a group charged the stairs to a second- floor landing in the Senate.

That's some of the video we've seen of those rioters rushing up the stairs. At one point, there was that one Capitol Police officer who was trying to hold them back, trying to redirect them. So Vice President Pence was tucked away into that office, you know, within a minute there, 60 seconds, that, if there was less time, some of those rioters might be able to see him and perhaps attack him.

So it was very tight here. Of course the vice president was ushered away, but this minute-by-minute accounting, really giving us a look at how perilously close Vice President Pence came to danger -- guys.

SCIUTTO: And his staff says the president did not reach out to him at all during that harrowing period, or even soon after. It's remarkable.

SCHNEIDER: Nothing ,exactly.

HARLOW: Jessica, thank you very much for that reporting.

New also this morning, President-elect Joe Biden now pushing to vaccinate 100 million more Americans in his first 100 days in office.

SCIUTTO: CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now with more. Elizabeth, tell us what's different about the Biden plan, right? Because there was an ambitious Trump plan that failed to meet its own repeatedly watered down goals, right? So what is Biden going to do differently?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So you know, I don't even know that I would call the Trump plan a plan. The Trump plan was actually just aspirational, we will do this. They didn't have the nuts and bolts in place to make it happen.

So let's look at what the Biden team is planning on doing. They're planning on having community vaccination centers so it's not willy- nilly. You will know where the vaccination center will be in your community.

Also, deploying mobile units to remote areas for people who don't have centers to go to, and also vaccination regardless of immigration status -- because of course anyone can get and spread this virus.

Also, more money for improved surveillance of mutations and variants. That is so important, the U.S. has lagged far behind in that area -- Poppy, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Those are big changes --

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- certainly to be welcomed. Elizabeth Cohen, thanks very much.

[10:43:08]

And we'll be right back.

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HARLOW: Back now with a disturbing watchdog report on Facebook. The group called Tech Transparency Project, a nonprofit, says advertisements for military gear and weapons accessories are still not only being shown, but are actually being targeted toward far-right extremist posts on Facebook, despite -- and this is after, Jim, the insurrection at the Capitol.

SCIUTTO: Listen, and despite the current threat to the Capitol that's requiring all these armed soldiers on the streets. CNN's Brian Fung joins us now to talk about this.

Brian, first, how did this watchdog group come to this conclusion? And what's Facebook doing about it?

BRIAN FUNG, CNN TECH REPORTER: Yes, guys, this is truly disturbing. What TTP did was to set up a dummy account on Facebook to try and mimic what a far-right sympathizer might behave or might do on Facebook. And it found that this dummy account got served alongside, you know, pro-insurrection posts, ads for things like body armor, holsters, firearm accessories and other tactical gear that are potentially very worrying here.

And, now, Facebook says that the -- it doesn't support this -- you know, the ads that praise, support or represent militarized social movements. And Facebook's Nick Clegg, top Facebook exec, has said Facebook doesn't profit from hate.

TEXT: On Watchdog Report: "We don't allow ads that praise, support or represent militarized social movements and ban ads that promote the sale or use of weapons. ammunition, or explosives." - Andy Stone, Facebook spokesperson

FUNG: But of course, you know, as these ads show -- and given what we know about, you know, the violence that occurred at the Capitol, I think that really raises some questions about whether or not that statement is true.

HARLOW: And, Brian, I mean, it really seems like what this has become for Facebook, for pretty much all the social media platforms is a game of whack-a-mole: You take one down, another pops up. And I know that that makes it difficult for them. However, this is a platform they built, created and profited enormously from.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: So is it not their job to get a handle on this?

FUNG: Well, Facebook says it's working on trying to get a handle on this, and it has many standards and policies in place.

But as we've been told by researchers as recently as today, the company has had to take down several groups that have tried to evade Facebook's policies and rules on this by changing their group names from Stop the Steal to things like Stop the Fraud, or by using Instagram Stories, which disappear after a certain amount of time -- 24 hours -- which allows them to get their message out without being caught by Facebook's content moderators, all of which makes it much more difficult for Facebook to catch these, you know, violent content purveyors.

[10:50:11]

HARLOW: Let us ask you, Brian, before you go, about Parler, OK? Parler is another social media site that is largely used by conservatives, was taken off Amazon Web Services, basically the lifeblood, the ability for it to operate was taken away. They're suing Amazon.

But I thought the response by Amazon in court is really striking because they lay out so many examples where they say, look, we told you guys for weeks to take down this violent stuff, even before the insurrection on the Capitol; you didn't, you left us no choice.

FUNG: Yes, and Amazon says that that is a result, that is a breach of its terms of service. And Amazon sent several examples, dozens of examples, to Parler of claims that -- calls for civil war, calls for assassinations of Democratic lawmakers, of tech CEOs including Mark Zuckerberg and Jack Dorsey. You know, all these members of high- profile public figures, very specific calls for violence against these individuals and more. And as a result of that, Amazon kicked Parler off its platform.

Now, Parler says that it tried to -- and it was working on -- building a moderation program when it got kicked off Amazon's platform. But Amazon says that wasn't good enough, it has to stay down.

HARLOW: I mean, you can't --

SCIUTTO: Brian Fung --

HARLOW: Sorry, I was just going to say, Jim, you can't -- like, you can't build a thing and then say we're going to work to fix it afterwards. Like, you've got to know -- you've got to have a plan. That's it -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: No question. Brian Fung, thanks very much.

For more on the broader threat to the nation's capital and around the country in advance of the inauguration, we're joined now by CNN law enforcement analyst -- used to work for the Secret Service -- Jonathan Wackrow.

Good to have you on, Jonathan. I am floored by the security presence in Washington today, there are going to be more than 20,000 troops by January 20th. Every road leading to the mall -- right? -- has a security checkpoint, reminds me of Kabul. As Americans see that and see these national guardsmen armed, now, with automatic weapons, does that force deployment tell us about the size of the threat here? What do you get about the intel about the threat from looking at all those forces?

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: One hundred percent, Jim. What we're seeing, the optic, the show of force by the National Guard, the Secret Service, law enforcement partners in advance of the inauguration speaks to the significant nature of this threat, and the real concern that law enforcement officials have.

I mean, what we're dealing with is the threat of violence from domestic extremists, from terrorists. We show -- we have seen what they did on January 6th, we know what they are capable of to a point.

So this warning that law enforcement is putting out should not be taken lightly in Washington, D.C. or any state. There needs to be the appropriate mitigation to match the clear and present danger that these extremist groups present.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Given the reporting we just got that Vice President Pence was in the chamber for about 14 minutes until he was removed to a saferoom, and he was still in the chamber when the rioters broke through and broke inside the building, what is the -- and I get there are, like, a lot more barriers now and a lot more National Guard members, but what is the biggest challenge for them this weekend in securing all those folks?

WACKROW: Well, listen, it's -- you know, the Capitol building, some of the marquis locations -- the Capitol, the White House, the Naval Observatory -- I mean, these locations are just absolutely fortified.

The risk is, there's always going to be a demarcation zone where you step down a level of security. You know, not every politician's residence is going to be fortified to the extent that the U.S. Capitol is.

So a threat never remains at rest, it's always going to look for the path of least resistance. And that's the concern for law enforcement right now, is understanding the dynamic nature of this threat and who else may become targets of these, you know, these really violent groups that are, you know, potentially coming into D.C. to cause harm specifically.

SCIUTTO: Listen, the parallel to Islamist terrorists are clear, and DHS for some time now has identified these right-wing groups as a bigger threat to the U.S. homeland. I wonder what happens after the Inauguration Day. Because, as you say, these groups aren't going anywhere, they look for the path of least resistance. What do we do after?

WACKROW: Well, listen, you know, this threat is not going to go away. We're at a seminal moment right now, and an inflection point of activity. But it is going to persist for a long time, and we need to be able to create a culture of security awareness to recognize this threat and the likelihood that other events may occur in the future.

[10:55:14]

And the reason why this is important is because we now know that these individuals are literally willing to engage in violent acts of domestic terrorism. That doesn't go away on January 21st. We actually have to now build a mechanism by law enforcement and intelligence to actually identify and stop those groups from perpetrating, you know, future violent acts.

HARLOW: Jonathan, thank you for your expertise, especially this morning.

And thanks to all of you for being with us today and all week, have a good, safe weekend. We'll see you back here Monday morning. I'm Poppy Harlow.

SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto. NEWSROOM with Kate Bolduan starts right after a short break.

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