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Interview with Rep. John Garamendi (D-CA); New Details Emerge on Capitol Building Siege. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired January 15, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:20]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: You are watching CNN on this Friday afternoon. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me.

Seconds. Seconds. These insurrectionists who stormed the U.S. Capitol were mere seconds away from the vice president as they were chanting things like "Hang Mike Pence."

This is the first we're hearing of exactly how dangerously close this mob of Trump supporters actually got to the V.P. That's all according to "The Washington Post" today.

And all of these disturbing new details are coming as federal prosecutors announce that the primary goal of last week's assault on the U.S. Capitol and really on Americans' democracy was to capture and assassinate lawmakers.

This also comes as CNN has obtained terrifying new footage here taken just steps from the Senate chamber showing the perspective of the rioters who chased that black Capitol Police officer, now identified as Eugene Goodman up the stairs.

CNN can't confirm the source of the video. But watch and listen for yourself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You work for us!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is that meeting at?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, where are they counting the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) votes?

(SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't do it! Don't do it! Don't do it! Don't do it!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey! Hey!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where are they counting the votes? Where are they counting the votes? Where are they counting them? Where are they counting them? Where are they counting them?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These people. These people.

(SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These people...

(SHOUTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So frightening.

And while the nation's capital remains on edge, it is also on guard. Thousands of National Guard troops are lined up across the city amid increased security threats ahead of Inauguration Day. And, of course, this is all happening as the pandemic rages on, more than 229,000 new infections counted just yesterday, and more than 3,700 Americans lost their battles with the virus.

President-elect Joe Biden will be addressing that health crisis this hour. And, of course, we will bring those remarks to you live.

But I want to begin with these terrifying new details that have emerged because of last week's Capitol siege.

Our senior justice correspondent, Evan Perez, is live for us in Washington.

And, Evan, what more do you know? We know they were -- that the mob was seconds away from the vice president, which is terrifying. What else have you learned?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

Look, I think it's very clear that this event could have been a lot worse than it -- it's bad enough already. But it could have been so, so much worse. And according to "The Post," just based on the evidence and the timeline that investigators have put together, they can tell that the vice president was being moved from out of the Senate chamber just 60 seconds before you see that mob come up the stairs.

And Officer Goodman heroically, frankly, puts himself in a position of danger, so that he could draw them away from that location. Clearly, that saved a lot of lives. Lord knows what happened -- what would happen if those people had gotten close to the vice president. We would be talking about a different event.

And it really does sort of give you a sense of how much worse things could have gotten, and including the idea that we're seeing emerging in some of the court documents that prosecutors believe that there was something else going on, that some of these people had, perhaps, the idea that they could use those zip ties that we have now seen in some of those pictures to capture members of Congress, perhaps even the vice president, and perhaps do harm to them. Again, the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, Mike Sherwin,

at a press conference just in the last hour said they don't have any direct evidence of a kill and capture. But they are looking at the evidence that they have and are pursuing that very question. They're looking to see whether they can bring a sedition conspiracy case, because that, they believe, is -- there was some intent here that they believe that could come out in the evidence they're looking at, Brooke.

And I got to tell you, just backing away from what you just talked about, I -- we have National Guards men and women at my corner of my street, and I don't recognize this city right now. I have been here for multiple inaugurations, and the threat level at this point is unlike what we have seen in past -- in past years.

BALDWIN: I cannot imagine, just as a -- not just a journalist, but as a you, Evan Perez, living in Washington with your sweet family, and just so many people dealing with this threat that is so real.

[15:05:07]

We talked -- you mentioned the zip ties and the potential for what they could have been used for. And we know the deaths, plural, in the wake of last week.

Several people, it's my understanding, are now under investigation in the death of Capitol Police Officer Sicknick. What do you now?

PEREZ: Right.

And this is one of the top priorities of the FBI, of the ATF, and the prosecutors working this investigation. They want to find the cop killers. And so we're told that they have got a number of people, several people, that are on their radar that they are trying to figure out whether they were involved and their involvement in the death of Officer Sicknick.

Obviously, the fact that he died at the hands of these people is a turning point for the law enforcement. We know that the Capitol Police officers were completely overwhelmed. And that's one of the indications. These people came with weapons, including crowbars and bear spray, things -- frankly, they were better armed than the Capitol Police officers.

And until the Metropolitan Police showed up to save the building, they turned the tide, frankly, and saved a lot of lives.

BALDWIN: Thank goodness for them.

Evan Perez, thank you, thank you. And stay safe.

Staying in Washington, to Capitol Hill, where it is looking more like a combat zone more and more as we near president-elect Joe Biden's inauguration that's being held next Wednesday.

CNN correspondent Pete Muntean just talked to the head of the D.C. National Guard.

Pete, how confident is he with the security there in Washington?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very confident, Brooke.

More members of the Guard are arriving here at the D.C. Armory by the bus full every moment. The head of the D.C. Guard, Major General William Walker, just told me that 7,000 members of the Guard are here in Washington right now. And that number could go up to 25,000 by Inauguration Day.

Walker says this is his fifth inauguration. Typically, about 9,500 members of the Guard are involved, so this encampment twice the size of years passed. He says the soldiers here are ready, but this is not a war zone, even though they are armed, and they are being heavily screened to make sure there is no possibility of an insider threat.

Here's what he told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM WALKER, COMMANDING GENERAL, NATIONAL GUARD: We pretty thoroughly vet all the Guardsmen that are going to be out here. It's kind of like know your customer like a credit card agency. We know our Guardsmen. We know our people.

So, the Guardsmen that are coming here, first of all, they have to be U.S. citizens. They have to be cleared to make sure they don't violate the Lautenberg act, and then COVID screens. So, it's a full process to actually be put on a point in the District of Columbia.

They understand that they will be here until the end of the inaugural period, which is 24 January. Now, if conditions change, they will stay here longer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: Now, Walker spoke to me in his dress uniform because he just returned from Capitol Hill, where he met with House leadership, who he said is admittedly a bit shaken, but they are reassured by the presence of the Guard here.

Walker also spoke to some of his soldiers here. He says some of them are actually a bit excited to be here in Washington for this inauguration like no other -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let's hope everyone stays safe.

Pete Muntean, thank you.

Joining me now, James Clapper, CNN national security analyst and former director of national intelligence.

Director Clapper, welcome, sir.

JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Thanks, Brooke. BALDWIN: I want your reaction to a couple of these extraordinary

nuggets of news today. Number one, if this mob had arrived seconds earlier, those attackers who had been chanting "Hang Mike Pence" would have been in eyesight of the vice president. Seconds, Director Clapper.

CLAPPER: Well, it's stunning and disturbing all at once.

And I think I have to bear in mind here, as a worst-case kind of guy, that there's probably more startling revelations to come out of this, so that -- and this is a serious, serious threat to our democracy and the systems that underpin it.

So, it's very disturbing to me. And I think there's more to come.

BALDWIN: We -- as we wait for more to come, also, as we hear today, essentially, the goal of these insurrectionists was to capture and assassinate lawmakers.

You heard Evan talking about all those zip ties. We don't know if it was about capturing, keeping hostage. That's all being investigated, but your reaction from a security perspective to that.

CLAPPER: Well, my -- after watching the videos, the sickening videos over and over again and Evan's report, of course, what really struck me about all this was the ferocious -- the ferocity, the fanaticism of these people and their brazenness.

[15:10:05]

And you wonder, what was their outcome? What did they think was going to happen after they did all this? Was life just going to go on? Or they saw -- they thought that somehow President Trump would stay for four more years just by doing this?

So, the irrationality here is really -- is dangerous and disturbing.

BALDWIN: What you say is -- it's interesting you say that -- the ferocity and the ferociousness.

We're hearing that because of the -- quote, unquote -- "success," apparently, that these people felt, that they now feel even newly emboldened for, finish the sentence. We don't know what.

Last week -- Trump may be leaving the White House in five days, but we know that means they won't necessarily, these extremists, these white supremacists, let's call them what they are, won't go away. If you were advising the Biden administration, Director Clapper, how should they combat this?

CLAPPER: Well, this is going to last past the inauguration.

I'm reasonably confident we will get through that just by the massive security presence. But this is a long-term problem.

So, two things have to happen, of course. One is, a new president, who occupies the most influential bully pulpit in the country, will start telling the truth. And I think something needs to be done about social media platforms, which are way too dominant, belatedly woke up to the threat that they have caused.

We have a serious case of what the RAND Corporation calls truth decay in this country. And we have to get at that, and that is a whole-of- government and, for that matter, a whole-of-society problem. And I am sure the incoming administration understands, realizes this, what they're up against.

BALDWIN: But how do they do that? I mean, quite frankly, you already have this group of people who some people would say are brainwashed. It's like a cult. So they're not going to listen to President Biden.

I mean, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, sir. So what do we do? It's a growing group.

CLAPPER: It is.

And what has to happen here is, you need to get at the margins of the problem. The extreme -- the way, way, extreme people are probably -- are not going to be converted. So they have to be isolated and monitored, and employing basically the same tactics, techniques, procedures, and tradecraft that you would use in prosecuting a foreign extremist group.

And that's basically what we're up against here, except it's our own citizens. So, there's a number of things that have to be done to combat this violent extremism, one of which, of course, is to try to shrink the group of extremists, those who are activists who would actually try to overthrow the government, and try to persuade those who are less committed or at least have some respect for the rule of law.

And this will not be a -- something that is going to be all done by close of business next Friday. This is going to be a long-term proposition. And, again, it's a -- it's a serious problem for us. And I'm very concerned about it.

BALDWIN: Which we will continue talking about in the weeks and months to come.

James Clapper, as always, a privilege, sir. Thank you so much.

CLAPPER: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Breaking news this afternoon: CNN is learning that Capitol Hill tours were actually banned in the day of the insurrection in response to security fears from Democratic lawmakers.

What they were fearing, what they were seeing, who they were seeing on the Hill, that's coming up.

And President Trump now demanding this military-style send-off the morning of Inauguration Day, as his approval ratings sink in the wake of the second impeachment.

Also, new concerns over the nation's failing vaccination efforts, as officials warn there are no more reserve vaccine doses to release.

You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

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[15:18:38]

BALDWIN: We are back. You're watching CNN on this Friday. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being here.

Let's get to it, the breaking news now.

The former U.S. House sergeant of arms sent a memo to members of Congress banning tours on the U.S. Capitol on January 6. That is the day of last week's deadly insurrection.

Ryan Nobles is the one breaking the story for us. He is live in Washington.

And, Ryan, tell us more about the memo when and what members were seeing.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brooke, what this memo shows us is that there was certainly a level of concern about the volume of people that were around the Capitol in the week leading up to January 6, such a great concern that we're told that a number of Democratic members of Congress went to the sergeant at arms and the Capitol Police and requested that these tours that were ongoing during this period of time be brought to an end.

Now, it's important to point out that public tours of any kind had been banned on Capitol Hill since March, when the pandemic took place, but that members of Congress have special privileges. They essentially can get around these rules because they are members of Congress.

And in the week leading up to that January 6 riot, there was an increasing number of these tours that were being run by members that were taking place all around the Capitol complex. And that raised a lot of concerns from these Democratic members.

They were concerned at first about the risk of the spread of the COVID pandemic, but they were also concerned that many of these tours were being led by Republican members, and they were taking around supporters of President Trump.

[15:20:07]

And then, after everything that took place on January 6, that's raised even greater concerns by many of these Democratic members. Of course, New Jersey Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill suggested that perhaps some of these tours were actually reconnaissance missions by members of the Republican House with folks that were on these tours and ended up in the riots on January 6. Now, we should point out that our Evan Perez is reporting that

officials are looking into this, that federal officials are looking into these claims that Republican members could have been involved in showing some of the rioters around the Capitol ahead of time.

At this point, they found no evidence that it was done purposefully. But they are looking into concerns that perhaps these members were giving these tours to people unwittingly, that they didn't realize that was their purpose to give these tours.

But what this memo shows, this memo obtained by our Annie Grayer, it shows that level of concern. In addition to the fact that it reiterated the point that tours were not allowed and that the tours could no longer take place, it also completely locked down access to the Capitol Building itself to anyone other than those who had offices inside the Capitol.

And, Brooke, I should also point out, we have talked to Republicans about this to get their side of it. They think that Democrats are overblowing this a bit and they said that this was just them reiterating the guidance and that there's no specific examples of Republicans that were violating this rule -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Sure. I appreciate hearing from both sides. It just -- it furthers the question if anyone on the Hill was complicit in this attack, which I know they're looking into.

Ryan Nobles breaking the news. Thank you so much, Ryan.

Let's get some perspective here.

With me now, California Democratic Congressman John Garamendi. He is the senior member of the House Armed Services Committee and a former lieutenant governor of California.

So, Congressman Garamendi, welcome.

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D-CA): Good to be with you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Just spring boarding off of Ryan's reporting, I'm just curious.

In the days before the attack last week, did you notice any people around the Hill on tours wearing these MAGA hats? Did you do notice anything out of the ordinary?

GARAMENDI: I did not.

I basically obeyed the rules and stayed either in my office or not at the Capitol at all until January 6, when we were required to be there to conduct the joint session of Congress. And even then, we were escorted in by certain groups. I think there were four different groups. I was in the second group. So I had the good fortune of not being there where the mob was successful in entering the building.

Many of my colleagues were. And, yes, we are very, very concerned about this. And the speaker is. The speaker has launched in a very significant investigation, hired a retired general, Russel Honore, to conduct that investigation to determine if there was any inside operation at all.

And that could very well involve looking closely at certain members of Congress.

BALDWIN: As they look into it -- and you mentioned those concerns -- I want to highlight one concern from one of your Democratic colleagues, Congressman Don Beyer.

And so he said that the issue -- quote -- "that has the greater emotional impact is the sense that there is perhaps actual physical danger from our colleagues," our colleagues, meaning, as you point out, potentially some Republican colleagues.

Do you feel like you are in physical danger?

GARAMENDI: I have been in public life for 40 years. And I have always been careful. Every day, every time in public, I have to be careful and pay attention to what is going on around me.

BALDWIN: But that's different, Congressman.

GARAMENDI: So, the answer is yes.

BALDWIN: It's -- but, specifically, the -- from physical danger because of some of your colleagues across the aisle on the Hill? That is the specific concern. Do you share those concerns?

GARAMENDI: Yes, we are aware that some of our colleagues want to bring guns onto the floor of the House, want to bring guns into the meeting, want to bring guns into the halls of the office building.

I think that is absolutely unacceptable. There are many different kinds of men and women in Congress. And we range from straight up to straight down, and so no guns, period, anywhere. And we do know that some of those members of Congress breached the security just last week, or this week, actually, trying to go around the metal detectors.

For what purpose? Well, perhaps to bring a gun. We now have a new rule in place that places a $5,000 fine for anybody that goes around those metal detectors. Good -- $10,000 for the second time they do that.

We have to protect ourselves. We have to be safe. And if people...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But, Congressman Garamendi, I just want to jump in, because I want to make sure that we are -- I am hearing you crystal clear, as you bring up the desire of some of these members of bringing guns into the Capitol, which is not allowed, by the way.

[15:25:00]

Are you concerned? Are you suggesting that one of your fellow members of Congress might harm you?

GARAMENDI: Of course. Why would you bring a gun onto the floor? You want to get into a fisticuff or you want to get into a gun battle?

You don't need to have a gun on the floor of the House or even in any of the Capitol complex or the offices. It's a very, very secure place, except when a mob incited by the president of the United States turns that mob loose into the Capitol. Now you have got a danger.

BALDWIN: But you're specifically -- I'm asking you specifically about Republican members of Congress, if they are armed.

I just want to be crystal clear, because this is such an important point, that you are fearful that that person could shoot you?

GARAMENDI: I would be -- yes, I am concerned that any member that brings a gun into the Capitol, into a hearing room, into the office buildings, or into -- onto the floor of the House poses a danger, a danger to me and a danger to the other members of the Congress and the staff.

Do not need to have guns anywhere in this complex.

BALDWIN: What can you do about that, your fear? What can you and your colleagues do about it?

You heard Ryan say -- he was talking to Republicans. They say this is totally overblown on behalf of you and your party.

GARAMENDI: Well, let's make it very clear.

You bring a gun onto the floor of the House, you will be fined. That is a new rule that the speaker of the House has put in. And it is a $5,000 fine. And the money will be taken directly out of your salary, no questions. You going to get go to a jury? No. You're found with a gun on the floor of the Congress, you're going to have $5,000.

Do it a second time, it's $10,000. And I would suggest it's also a potential reason to be thrown out of Congress totally. And there are folks that were involved at the president's rally that did incite the mob, one of them, Mo Brooks of Alabama.

My view is, his words were specifically to incite the mob. And he should be thrown out of Congress.

BALDWIN: All of this being investigated. It's just -- it's a really -- it's a really horrible time in this country, especially to hear that members of Congress fear for their own safety because of other members of Congress. That is so significant.

Congressman John Garamendi, thank you for being with me. Stay safe there in Washington. I appreciate your candor and your time.

GARAMENDI: Good to be with you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Thank you. Impeached twice, with a sinking approval rating, President Trump is

now asking for a military-style send-off the morning of Inauguration Day. We have those details.

And we are waiting to hear from president-elect Joe Biden on his plan to address the vaccine rollout mess. We will bring that to you live.

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