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Pentagon: 25,000 National Guard Troops In D.C. For Inauguration; QAnon Shaman Arrested For Riot Role, Asks For Trump Pardon; Poll: Majority Of Americans Want Trump Removed From Office; U.S. Bracing For More Attacks As FBI Warns Of Armed Protests; Trump's Senate Impeachment Trial To Start After Biden's Inauguration. Aired 9- 10p ET

Aired January 16, 2021 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[21:00:32]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: We're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. Thanks for staying with me. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. And on this Saturday night, with some 300 open investigations, the Capitol insurrection underway. 25,000 National Guard troops are descending on D.C. as part of the protection force to stop another tragedy on inauguration day just four days away now. The Capitol is now surrounded with fencing, in some places, razor wire after the stunning breach of security and the growing concerns about what could come during what should be a peaceful transition.

Four House committees today set a letter to the FBI, the Director of National Intelligence, National Counterterrorism Center and the Department of Homeland Security, demanding to know how the riot happened and whether any domestic terrorists got help from someone on the inside. Meanwhile, all 50 states are on alert for potential violence at their capitols in Texas.

At least one demonstrator at the statehouse today reportedly brought zip tie handcuffs echoing chilling scenes from the attack in Washington. And more security measures could be as close as your corner mailbox, that is if it's still there tonight. The Postal Service is removing or locking up mailboxes in 18 states to stop someone from putting a bomb inside.

Shimon Prokupecz joins us now from Capitol Hill. What are you seeing there tonight, Shimon?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Ana. Well, here at this intersection on Massachusetts Avenue blocks from the Capitol, you can see behind me are some of the National Guard troops all across Washington, D.C. This is an intersection, there's a roadblock here, and it's also a checkpoint. This is where some vehicles can come through, there's a hotel actually up the block where some of the National Guard members are staying. And this entire area is surrounded by military vehicles. There's more on this side.

And then you can see across this way, there are more National Guard troops here, all heavily armed. And as I said, we are blocks from the Capitol. This is just one ring of security, right? There are more and more layers and perimeters around the Capitol that are secure than anything that anyone has ever seen or experienced in Washington, D.C. As you said, fencing around the Capitol, fencing around federal buildings, fencing around monuments, the national mall close.

The concern is severe. There is a lot of concern that domestic terrorists are going to come here on Inauguration Day and try and disrupt the inauguration and this is why we're seeing this effort from the military, from law enforcement and from others. 25,000 National Guard troops, they are all not here yet. We have seen dozens today arriving here in Washington, D.C., Ana.

CABRERA: OK, Shimon Prokupecz, thank you.

It's not just in Washington, D.C. police and the FBI are preparing for possible armed protests at literally every state capital in the nation. CNN Sara Sidner is in Lansing, Michigan tonight. Sara, there's a plan protests for right where you are. In fact, tomorrow, the mayor is warning citizens to steer clear altogether of downtown and this is happening all over the country.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's the plan militia March. And by the way, that was planned before what happened on January 6. You know, Michigan has a history of self-styled militias. And so, you know, there was concerned that people would show up here armed like they did a while back in the spring. What they've done is nothing compared to what is happening in Washington, D.C. You will see a fence albeit more of a visual deterrent really than a physical deterrent because it would be easy to push down.

But the real deterrent is -- and the safety precaution is that they have -- basically, the legislators have decided that an abundance of caution to not be inside here to stay out of the Capitol for the next five days. Basically, there won't be back until Friday. And so, the reason for that specifically is because the Capitol Police or the police here have said that indeed there was a credible threat against this Capitol.

Now, they responded this way, partly because of what happened over the summer and then this fall, which is an alleged plot to storm this Capitol, take it over and kidnap the governor. That plot was thwarted by federal authorities. And there are several people who are charged and have been arrested, and that case will go forward. But it was extremely scary. When you look at some of the details of what federal authorities say was being planned.

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It was quite violent, there were threats against police that they were going to do things to try and hurt or kill police officers to keep them from helping to save the governor. So there is a heightened awareness already here in Michigan. I should also mention that we've been talking to a lot of experts who track extremism in this country and who had done so for decades. And they're saying, look, nothing may happen tomorrow. Nothing may happen in the next few days or weeks. But the truth is

what you saw on the sixth day believe was just the beginning of what could be a slow burn of this kind of activity, of this kind of radicalized activity in America, something that we may have to live with for a long time to come. Ana?

CABRERA: And it is now snowing there, Michigan, as we can see. Sara Sidner --

SIDNER: It is.

CABRERA: -- Mother Nature helps cooler heads to prevail moving forward in the next few days, especially. Thank you.

Joining us now is the Attorney General of Michigan, Dana Nessel. Thanks for being with us. Concerns have been particularly high in your state, as Sara just outlined, there was that plot last year to kidnap the governor as well as arm protests at the state capital. How are you feeling going into the days ahead? Is the state prepared for anything that might arise?

DANA NESSEL (D), MICHIGAN ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, I certainly think that we've done everything possible to prepare for tomorrow, and to prepare for the course of this week, especially with the legislature having decided not to meet this week, which is really unfortunate, because in essence, I think that the terrorists win when our state government is held hostage to their threats.

But I'm very concerned going forward from there. And -- I mean, we can't just live our lives with all the buildings boarded up and with this level of police presence, continually, but we're going to have to really evaluate what this level of domestic terrorism has done. And we're going to have to step up our efforts to combat it head on, and to work with law enforcement all across the spectrum, at the federal level, at the state level and the local level, because this is the existential threat of our time. And we have to be ready to meet it head out.

CABRERA: You have said you believe what happened in your state this past spring was a dry run for the insurrection at the Capitol. Why do you believe that?

NESSEL: Well, all you really have to do is look at the video footage of what happened in April. And the way that these armed gunmen literally overtook the entire place, you know, stood in the Senate gallery, threatening our state senators with long guns, trying to force their way onto the House floor in a -- that we didn't see a mass shooting or a, you know, a device that exploded or anything in that nature, even though it would have been very easy to do that.

But I truly believe for folks around the nation, they saw that set of circumstances, they understood really how easy it was to take over a Capitol building, and then made their plan to do what they did on January the 6 in Washington, D.C. And, in fact, many of the people that were there at our state's capitol during that event in Lansing in April, were also in Washington, D.C. on January 6 of this year. CABRERA: How much are these potential threats linked to the President's repeated election lies?

NESSEL: I think that the statements made by the President and all of his allies, his aiders and abettors, his co-conspirators is really what I would call it, have contributed significantly to it. And I think it's a combination, certainly COVID has been very detrimental, because it's allowed people who have these anti-government sentiments, at least in my stage really fight back against any restrictions that are put in place because of COVID protections.

And they sort of mesh together with those who want to fight back against the government, because now they feel as though the presidential election has somehow been stolen from them.

So I think those narratives combining has really been explosive in nature, and it's created this perfect storm. So, you know, I would say to all of those folks who continue to promote and to propagate this charade of there being some sort of a an election steal, to finally at long last say what we all know to be factually accurate, and that is that the election was fair, and that it was accurate. And to walk that back and to move away from this very disastrous and dangerous narrative.

CABRERA: We know the President still has not done that. And I know a number of elected officials all around the country, especially in states where the President and his allies have been trying to contest the results like Michigan, have received threats since the election. What is your situation right now? Are you receiving threats?

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NESSEL: I would say that it's been virtually nonstop. We've had thousands and thousands of threats that have come in against our state legislators, against our secretary state or governor, myself. We just are, you know charged the case involving a court of claims judge who actually was involved in some of those election cases that were brought by the Trump campaign.

Really, the list goes on and on. And that's why we have to be so aggressive in terms of investigating, and then later prosecuting, where there's evidence to do so these types of threats so that people understand that no matter who you're making these threats to, it's a crime and you are not somehow immune or inoculated against criminal prosecution just because the person whose life You're threatening happens to be an elected official.

CABRERA: At least two of the Capitol Hill rioters have been charged now and they're appealing directly to the President for a pardon. The lawyer of the so called QAnon Shaman, Jacob Anthony Chansley argued that his client had simply accepted an invitation from the President to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue to that Capitol. What's your reaction to that?

NESSEL: It's horror, you know. You can't commit a crime because the President has asked you to do that, you know. That is not a defense to either a state or federal crime. Now, if the President chooses to actually pardon some of these people, which I mean, at this point, there's really nothing that I put past Donald Trump no matter how egregious it is. But, obviously, you know, that will make those individuals immune from federal prosecution that would leave any state violations still available. But, obviously, those violations would be nothing compared to I think, what the penalties would be for federal -- under federal law.

But, I mean, what a dangerous set of circumstances. And, you know, it makes me wonder if we really have to reevaluate the President's pardoned power. I don't mean just this President, but all presidents because, you know, the way that we have seen it abused during just the last four years has really called into question whether it's a good idea. But, you know, if the President chooses to do it, it'll just be another part of his sad, disastrous, and very tragic legacy for this country.

CABRERA: Dana Nessel, thank you very much for joining us, the Michigan Attorney General. Be safe.

NESSEL: Thanks. Yourself as well.

CABRERA: Joe Biden's first moves as President rolling back a number of Trump's most controversial decisions. We'll take you inside the plans. And later, CNN sits down with Kamala Harris to hear about her historic journey to the vice presidency. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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CABRERA: Tonight, we are getting new details about how President-elect Joe Biden plans to make a clean break from Trump's policies on day one of his administration and this includes rescinding Trump's travel ban on predominantly Muslim countries and rejoining the Paris climate accord. So these would be executive orders he issues on day one.

So let's bring in former Republican Congressman from Pennsylvania, Charlie Dent, and CNN Political Commentator Ana Navarro. Ana, how does this now set the tone for the Biden presidency? And do you think it'll have Republican support?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Those two things in particular, I think probably will not have Republican support, even though there are some Republicans who are still remember what it was like before Trump, it may go back to those Republican values. Listen, the climate should not be being in the Paris accord. The climate is not a hoax, and should not be a partisan issue.

I still don't understand how anybody who lives in Florida where I do, whether you are Republican, or whether you are a Democrat, or whether you're Independent or you're nothing can somehow not believe in climate change. I think what it signifies is that it is a brand new day. A new day is dawning on America. And these are two quick, symbolic, big things that Joe Biden can get right that Donald Trump did wrong. CABRERA: The latest Pew survey showed this week Trump has hit his lowest approval rating since taking office, just 29 percent. In the same poll also shows more than half of Americans, 54 percent want him removed from office. Congressman Dent, do you think those numbers will have any impact on how Republicans decide to vote at Trump's impeachment trial in the Senate?

CHARLIE DENT (R), FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: Well, it may. There are clearly a lot of Senate Republicans who are ceding their limit, not just -- not only because of the insurrection that occurred last week, but because of the way that the President costs in their Senate Majority. The President's numbers have been declining, you know, particularly because of his, you know, outrageous and erratic behavior, particularly since the election. So I think right now, the President is in a much weakened position.

And I'm not saying that there are 17 Republican votes for conviction. But I can see that number growing a bit. They're at least five right now and perhaps more. And the fact that Mitch McConnell has more or less signaled, he's open to conviction, should open the floodgates a little bit for some members who are on the fence.

CABRERA: Ana, you say it'll be a new day with President Biden. Did you want to chime in? Go ahead.

NAVARRO: May I comment on the impeachment thing. Look, I -- you know, we don't know what more information we're going to find out and law enforcement is going to find out between now and when this impeachment trial happens. Every day, it seems that we find out more things that are more troublesome, right?

Was there inside help? Were there any Congress people that were involved in doing reconnaissance tours with some of these people? These are questions that might be answered by the time an impeachment trial happens, and that might change some minds. And also, look, there's the issue of the question about the perks that former Presidents get.

And, yes, there's the million-dollar travel budget, and there's the office budget. But there's also the issue that they have access to intelligence briefings, that they can ask for intelligence briefings. It's something that has to be done. And I think Republicans in the Senate have to ask themselves long and hard, whether they want somebody like Donald Trump, who is perfectly capable of selling intelligence, or using it to somehow benefit himself monetarily, whether they want to give him that perk, or they want to strip him of that type of thing by voting for an impeachment.

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CABRERA: You hear this saying, the damage is done oftentimes, and I just want you to think about that as you listen to some of the President's diehard supporters, and how they view the events at the Capitol and the President's involvement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RYAN WOLFE, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I believe that either foreign intelligence officers or local militant groups incited the conflict.

DARRELL FLIFLET, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I feel it was people like Antifa, Black Lives Matter who infiltrated the crowd, that class of problems.

JIM BARNES, TRUMP SUPPORTER: This was a stolen election. It will -- there'd be a price sooner or later.

XAVIER GUERRERO, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Nobody's ever actually looked at the evidence, so there's definitely evidence towards that. It just that nobody wants to look at it.

JOANNE DANNWORTH, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I want my President Trump standing up there being inaugurated as the next -- as an extended President of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: When you hear that, Congressman, what's your reaction?

DENT: Well, I think that this President's worst legacies is not only going to be the fact he was impeached twice, but the fact that he has gone to war with the truth. And because of that, this campaign of his over the last four years to lie and distort and to misrepresent everything, he's convinced a lot of the American public that what he has said is true, and it's not.

And this is his legacy. So it's, it's simply astounding, that there are fellow citizens who can actually believe that this election was somehow stolen or rigged, you know, after hearing from this administration and plenty of Republican election officials around the country who said the elections were honest and fair.

This is, you know -- again, this is the battle. The lines are drawn in the Republican Conference now. You know, Liz Cheney and others, I believe, want to move forward with a clean break from Donald Trump. I think Mitch McConnell's in the same place. But the question is where the rest of them? Are they going to follow or are they going to want to continue to follow man who was twice impeached, just defeated. At the same time, all these Republican candidates down ballot did extremely well in 2020. So they have a choice to make.

CABRERA: But here's the thing. Yes, what you say is true. At the same time, a lot of people believe whatever Trump says, including what's not true, as we heard from those supporters that Trump can do no wrong. It's not even everyday Americans who believe that it's Republican officials at the state and local level.

"The New York Times" reported this week, that interviews with more than 40 Republican state and local leaders conducted after the siege at the Capitol show that a vocal wing of the party maintains an almost religious devotion to the President, and that these supporters don't hold him responsible for the mob violence last week. The opposition to him emerging amongst some Republicans has only bolstered their support of him. Ana? NAVARRO: Look, it's not religious, it's cultish. And I think Republican leaders have got to do some self-reflection, and figure out what their role was in enabling Donald Trump and enabling Donald Trump to brainwash Republicans to turn this into a cult. And they have to ask themselves, do they want to be a serious party based around convictions and principles and values and ideas? Or do they want to be a party where the only purity test is whether you support Donald Trump or not?

But we -- you know, the Republicans often talk about a big tent, but this big tent under Donald Trump has somehow become the home. It's become a House of Horrors, a Tower of Terror. It's become the home of QAnon conspiracy theories, and white supremacists, and of xenophobes, and of homophobes, and of racist, and of anti-immigrants.

And Republican leaders need to ask themselves, what have they done for the last four years or not done for the last four years that has led to where we are today? It is inconceivable, inconceivable that this Republican tent, some of the Trump supporters talk about it, and have room for QAnnon conspiracy theories, but not for Liz Cheney, because of the crime that she actually used her own conscience and voted her conscious.

That it can have room for a QAnon Shaman, or for a xenophobe, but not for Mitt Romney, who was the, you know, the Republican nominee in 2012. It is inconceivable. So, you know, being more is not the answer. The answer is being people of value, being people of ideas, being people of principle. And the Republican Party, they want to continue being a party and being taken seriously have got to go back to that.

CABRERA: I got to leave it there tonight, guys. Ana Navarro and Charlie Dent, thank you both. I really, really appreciate it.

NAVARRO: Thank you, Ana.

DENT: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: Let me get some breaking news now from Capitol Hill. We're learning Republican Congresswoman Lauren Boebert's Communications Director has resigned.

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CNN has learned the decision by Ben Goldey was the result of his discomfort with Boebert's handling of the Capitol insurrection. And so, in less than two weeks in office, the freshman Congresswoman has, you know, courted plenty of controversies. She was one of many Republicans who voted against the counting of Electoral College votes for President-elect Joe Biden. And most recently, she opposed the installation of metal detectors outside the House floor because she wants to carry a gun on Capitol grounds. We'll be right back.

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CABRERA: New into CNN this weekend details about the potential for violent armed protests in all 50 states from now until the day Joe Biden's inaugurated. CNN's Brian Todd reports on who officials believe are most likely to cause trouble.

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BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Unprecedented security measures across the nation's Capitol, razor wire now on top of high security fences near the Capitol building. This comes as CNN obtains a new bulletin from the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security and other agencies saying domestic extremists pose the most likely threat to the inauguration, particularly those extremists who feel the incoming Biden administration is illegitimate.

ANDREW MCCABE, FORMER DEPUTY FBI DIRECTOR: They have united under the banner of this President, they have embraced his cause, the lie that the election was stolen, and that is not going to go away. It is fueling them.

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It's adding logs to that fire of grievance and hate.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Homeland Security officials now say the rehearsal for President-elect Biden's inauguration is postponed a day until Monday, while the officials say there are no specific credible threats, internet and social media chatter about potential threats for this Sunday, they say prompted the department to make that call.

AGENT MATT MILLER, US.S. SECRET SERVICE: There's a great deal of a very concerning chatter. And it's what you don't know that we're preparing for. So I don't know if anyone has raised their hand to say we are coming, we will be there. But we are preparing as if they are.

TODD: The Washington Post reports, the mob came closer than was previously known to Vice President Pence. The Post says as the Whiting mob made its way through the Capitol, they were roughly 60 seconds away from actually seeing the vice president in the hallway as he was being rushed to safety.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We saw white extremists stormed the Capitol Building, who were trained and organized and seemingly with the intent to capture the Vice President of the United States and perhaps, harm other lawmakers.

TODD: Sources tell CNN some members of Congress have told their party leadership they fear for their lives and the lives of their families, and several of them have taken new security measures.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have now become direct targets of anti- government and anti-establishment militia style extremists, 100% they should be taking every possible option available to them to provide their own security.

TODD: D.C. Metropolitan Police officers now give frightening accounts to CNN of what it was like battling the mob. Officer Michael Fanone says as he was injured on the ground, rioters were teasing him, stripping him of his gear. OFFICER MICHAEL FANONE, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE: Some guys started getting a hold of my gun and they were screaming out, you know, kill him with his own gun.

TODD: Officer Daniel Hodges will seen in disturbing video being crushed against a doorframe. Hodges tells CNN how zealous the rioters were.

OFFICER DANIEL HODGES, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE: There's a guy ripping my mask off and he was able to rip away my baton, beat me with it, and you know, he was practically foaming at the mouth, so just -- these people were true believers in the worst way.

TODD: Meanwhile, no arrests yet in the death of Capitol Hill Police Officer Brian Sicknick, who died as a result of injury suffered during the riot and FBI official says they're making progress in that investigation. Two law enforcement officials tell CNN they're looking at several people in connection with his death. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Joining us now former Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis and former D.C. Police Chief and Philadelphia Police Commissioner Charles Ramsay.

Good to have both of you with me tonight. Commissioner Ramsey, we know this investigation is unprecedented in scope. It spans all 50 states. The Intel suggests this attack on the Capitol is actually emboldened extremists and chatter is off the charts for future violence, we were told, and we're hearing of extreme precautions to keep things secure, knowing all of that, including the Postal Service now temporarily removing mailboxes.

Airbnb has cancelled all reservations in D.C. this coming week, the National Mall is closed until at least the day after the inauguration, more than 25,000 National Guard members are moving into D.C. What does that tell you about the threat level going into this week?

CHARLES RAMSEY, FORMER WASHINGTON D.C. POLICE CHIEF: Well, it tells us that there's a lot of concern around the threats that the FBI and others are looking at right now. I mean, these are extraordinary steps. I've been involved in presidential inaugurations before, when I was police chief in Washington, D.C., nothing even comes close to what we're seeing right now. And it's not just Washington D.C., as you mentioned before, all 50 state capitals are under high alert as well. So this is truly unprecedented.

My biggest concern, however, because right now everyone's like at high alert. But what happens after the 20th? What happens when all the National Guardsmen leave, I mean, there's got to be a deep dive into what happened on the six. And we've got to take a look at security across the board and make sure that we don't have the kind of failures that we had on January 6.

CABRERA: I spoke with Asha Rangappa in the last couple hours ago, and she talked about how law enforcement are having to pull double duty right now, right? There's like a massive investigation into what happened on January 6, as at the same time, there's this incredible effort to catch any future threat that may be out there at the moment.

So Commissioner Davis, we know at this point, 98 people are facing charges from January 6 events. About 300 people are under investigation. And when you look at videos like this, it stands out to me that nobody's wearing masks. People aren't trying to conceal themselves. Do these rioters in some ways make it easy for law enforcement? In fact, some of them are posting on social media bragging about their participation. What does that tell you?

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ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Well, it shows you how brazen these individuals are and that this has been termed an act of terrorism is absolutely the case. They don't care that you know who they are. They're seeing very clearly, we've been monitoring domestic violent extremists for years now. And they say very clearly what their intent is.

They hide behind the First Amendment, but law enforcement has to take this seriously. We learned that lesson on January 6, there's a whole new way that law enforcement is looking at this. And frankly, we are very practiced at doing investigations, while at the same time providing protection to citizens. That's not difficult for us. The video does make it easier for us.

CABRERA: Commissioner Ramsey, you and I spoke last week and about how law enforcement dropped the ball ahead of and during the capital attack. And we've learned now the FBI and DHS failed to disseminate information about potential threats for January 6 that they were aware of.

But we also know Capitol Police had their own Intel, according to "The Washington Post," and they issued an internal report warning of violence that read in part, "Unlike previous post-election protests, the targets of the pro-Trump supporters are not necessarily the counter protesters as they were previously, but rather, Congress itself is the target on the sixth. They had this Intel three days before the attack. Does this help paint a clearer picture of what went wrong?

RAMSEY: Well, there were multiple points of failure on the sixth of January and the days leading up to the sixth of January. That's why we have to have a commission or a study into what actually took place. Right now, we're getting bits and pieces, a little finger pointing here, a little finger pointing there. We need to know exactly what happened.

Now, I read that Speaker Pelosi is asked General Honore to take a look at what took place in the Capitol. But I think it needs to go beyond that. I think we need to have the Senate and House come together, put together this commission bring people in, swear man have them testify under oath, much like the 9/11 Commission to figure out what the heck happened. You can't fix it unless you know the full nature and extent of the

problems that you're facing. Because it's going to require not only intelligence and, sharing of information, look at the physical security around the Capitol. I mean, we've got to take a serious look at all this if we don't want to have a repeat of what happened on the sixth of January, because the threat is not going to go away after Wednesday.

CABRERA: Commissioner Davis we heard those chilling accounts from those officers in Brian Todd's piece, these officers who survived being attacked by the mob, including one who said the crowd shouted, kill him with his own gun. What was your reaction when you heard that? And what is your advice to officers now standing guard during these very, very tense time?

DAVIS: Well, some of those stories that came out of they were horrific. They were almost medieval in their violence. And so when you think about that, and you've managed these events, Chuck and I have worked together on these events in Washington, he had us down to assist at one point, I managed to a bunch up in Boston, you see these mobs coming and there's no logic to it, it can get vicious, it can get out of hand very quickly and human life is at stake.

So I would advise the officers who are out there, to be cautious to go home at the end of the night to make sure that there's enough help available. If these are terrorists, terrorism is -- usually utilizes asymmetrical warfare, so the chance of them attacking a force of 20,000 National Guard members is slim. But it can't happen someplace else on a softer target. That's what I'm concerned about for the next few days.

CABRERA: Former commissioners Ed Davis and Charles Ramsey, thank you both.

DAVIS: Thank you.

RAMSEY: Thank you.

CABRERA: Trump is only president to be impeached twice the only president to be impeached twice. However, his second impeachment came just days before the end of his term. So what does that mean about a Senate trial after he leaves office? Cross exam with our legal analyst, Elie Honig is next. You're live and the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[21:43:15]

CABRERA: Four days remain in Trump's presidency and on his way out he'll take with him two impeachments, the latest following the deadly insurrection on our nation's capitol incited by President Trump. And now all eyes turned to the Senate which won't start the impeachment trial until after Trump leaves office.

We're going to bring in CNN Legal Analyst Elie Honig, Former Federal and State Prosecutor. He's here to answer your question. So Elie, there are a lot of questions about this. I want to begin with this one. A viewer asks, now that the House has impeached President Trump, can he tried in the Senate after he leaves office on January 20?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, Ana, so this is now becoming one of the main defenses that we're hearing from the President's supporters. But it is a losing argument, because in fact, yes, the President or any federal official can be impeached can be tried after they leave office.

Now, we know this first because it has happened before way back in 1876, the Secretary of War resigned, then was impeached, and then was tried. Now that's a long time ago. But it's the same legal principle. And if we look at the Constitution, just logically, it makes perfect sense. First of all, there has to be some deterrent, some punishment to prevent misconduct, even in those final days in office.

And the Constitution gives us a real punishment for this kind of situation. Even if an official has already left office, the Senate can still disqualify him from ever holding federal office again, in the future. All that takes is a majority vote of the Senate. So on a bottom line, there can be an impeachment trial after January 20. And we will see one here.

CABRERA: This next question is about what we saw at the Capitol, this big riot, this domestic terrorist act. Another viewer asks, don't protesters have first amendment rights? Where is the line between free speech and an illegal act?

[21:45:02]

HONIG: Yeah, so the first amendment broadly protects speech, but it is not unlimited. The key question here is whether the speech was intended to or directly incited what's called imminent lawless action. So let's break that down. First of all, imminent just means soon, close, not distant. And if you think about it here, the president stood in front of the White House and he told that crowd fight like hell, he said, we're going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol. That's exactly what they did right away. That is imminent.

Now, second word, the President's words intended or likely to cause criminal acts. People can argue and disagree reasonably about the meaning or suggestion of what he said. To me, the best evidence is what the President said immediately after the capital attacks, he tweeted, remember this day forever. He called them great patriots. That shows me that they did exactly what he hoped and intended.

And finally, Ana, remember, we're only talking about criminal acts here. But you do not need a crime in order to impeach. If Congress finds the president abused his power, that can be enough, they do not need to find a specific crime.

CABRERA: And just thinking about his video during the insurrection in which he called these people special and said he loved them. Anyway, let's talk about what we also learned today, which is that an election official in Georgia will make a motion to refer a complaint to the Fulton County District Attorney. Now this is regarding those phone calls, the one the President made

with that -- to the Georgia secretary of state where he urged him to find enough votes to overturn the election. So when we were asked, could President Trump be investigated and charged for his call to the Georgia Secretary of State?

HONIG: Yeah, Ana, this is absolutely in play now. And when the President leaves office Wednesday, he'll lose any Temporary Protection that he had by virtue of being the president.

Now, there are several potential violations of Georgia State law in play here, all of them relating to election fraud. The key question is going to be whether the President tried to get those Georgia officials to count votes that he, Donald Trump, knew he did not actually get and I think his language in that call you talked about is key here.

Remember, he asked the Georgia Secretary of State to find exactly enough votes so that he would win by one. Now the Fulton County District Attorney has said her office will investigate without fear her favor. As a former prosecutor, I applaud that, that's exactly what prosecutors need to do. You get the facts, you pursue justice, no matter how powerful your subject may be. And remember, Ana, a presidential pardon can only cover federal crimes. This would be a state crime out of Georgia. So this would be pardon proof.

CABRERA: OK, that is the key there. Elie Honig, so good to see you, thank you.

HONIG: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: Coming up, Kamala Harris making history, CNN goes one on one with the Vice President-elect as she looks ahead to Inauguration Day. What she shared about her family and her journey to this point?

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[21:51:47]

CABRERA: With just four days to go before the inauguration, CNN is sitting down with Vice President-elect Kamala Harris to talk about her journey. Here's a preview of the CNN Special Report, "Kamala Harris: Making History."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: So I do want to start all the way at the beginning for the two of you, you guys have, you know, I'm going to describe it a little bit as a Hollywood love story.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT: My best friend set me up on a blind date. And my best friend can be a little bossy. So I didn't say no.

DOUG EMHOFF, KAMALA HARRIS' HUSBAND: I had never met her friend before. So I met her friend for an hour and a business meeting as a lawyer. And by the end of the hour, it was like, yeah, you seem pretty cool. I might want to set you up with somebody. The, you know, Kamala Harris, the Attorney General. And she said, yeah, but I think you'd be great.

HARRIS: So he texted me that very same night. You were at a Lakers Game?

EMHOFF: I was.

HARRIS: And I'm a Warriors fan, but I said, go Kobe. And then you call me that morning, the next morning.

EMHOFF: So the next violated every rule of dating. I believe.

HARRIS: We ended up talking for like 45 minutes to an hour and just laughing the whole time.

EMHOFF: Like I had known her forever. And I -- we figured out she was going to be in LA for a couple of days later. I said, great. Well, we'll go out to dinner. And I just didn't want it to end. And so the next morning, I pulled the move of emailing her with my availabilities for the next four months, including long weekends.

And I said something like, I'm too old. Hi, the ball, you're great. I want to see if we can make this work. Here's when I'm available next. And I guess it worked. Because then we saw each other a week or so later.

PHILLIP: Yeah, that's the part of the story I think that a lot of people will either identify with or be totally terrified by. How did you feel about that?

HARRIS: I was terrified.

PHILLIP: So when it came time to introduce the rest of the family, Cole and Ella, you talked about how that was such a big moment for the two of you?

EMHOFF: She put the brakes on it. She knew how impactful that moment was going to be when I introduce her to the kids, and she wanted it to be right.

HARRIS: I mean, my feeling was that, you know, my parents divorced when I was young. And I know what it's like to be a kid of divorced parents and your parents start dating other people. And I did not want to bond with the kids. If we weren't sure about what we had, because I just didn't want to do that to the kids. It was actually more nerve wracking than our first date.

PHILLIP: How long did it take you to get to the point where you became mom Ella?

HARRIS: Not long. We bonded and we bonded as a family and as a, you know, as we call it, you know, our modern family.

EMHOFF: I think they wanted a term that was just more personalized and expressed. There is a mom, Kirsten and then there's a mom Ella, Kamala and it just, it evolved out of love.

[21:55:01]

PHILLIP: Do you worry at all about the strain, the pressure that you are about to experience and what that might mean for your family?

EMHOFF: Look you always I'm like Papa Bear. I'm always worried about everything, including the people I love.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much, sir for your big idea.

PHILLIP: You're very protective of her. I think the entire world saw that literally in 2019 when you jumped up on the stage when someone was --

HARRIS: Indeed he did.

PHILLIP: Someone I mean, you're laughing about it now. But it must have been a really scary moment?

EMHOFF: It was, it was.

PHILLIP: Does that make you worry, not just about the strains and the stresses, but just her physical safety, your physical safety and that of your family.

EMHOFF: You can't go through life like that, Abby, you have to just go through life. There was no way I wasn't jumping up on that stage.

PHILLIP: And you're ready to be the second gentleman of the United States?

EMHOFF: I'm just very humbled, really, by this and honored to be in this position. There has been a lot of great women who have had this role and including Dr. Jill Biden, and I intend to do my best to support her not only as her husband but as the second gentleman to support her and the President and the administration and use this opportunity for good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: The CNN Special Report, "Kamala Harris: Making History" airs tomorrow night at 10 here on CNN. And I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. Thanks for being with me.

Up next at the CNN Special Report, "The faces of the Trump Insurrection." Have a great night.

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