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Arrests of Militia Members Continue; Interview with Retired Air Force Lieutenant General Jack Weinstein; Trump Plans to Leave Washington, D.C. Before Inauguration Ceremony. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired January 18, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: I want to begin in D.C., which has turned into a fortress ahead of President-elect Joe Biden's inauguration. This is where we find CNN's Pete Muntean. And, Pete, what are you hearing about the security preparations and also the ongoing threats?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, things get more and more restricted all the time here. In fact, this is about as close as one can get to the Capitol on foot right now. We are actually blocks away from the center of the complex. You can see the eight-foot fence behind me.

We had to go through two National Guard barricades to get here, and we have just learned that 21,000 members of the Guard are on the ground in D.C. right now, that number to go up to 25,000 by Inauguration Day.

It is the National Park Service that oversees the National Mall, which is now completely cleared out and closed through Inauguration Day. And it's as this kind of protection is completely unprecedented. Here's what they said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE LITTERST, CHIEF SPOKESMAN, NATINAL MALL AND MEMORIAL PARKS, NATIONAL PARK SERVICE: There's nobody there, and that's -- you know, that's not the business that the Park Service is in, we're in the business of welcoming people and providing access to these sites.

So I think when the 20th gets here and there are few if any people around, it's -- I think it's going to be unfortunate. But it is being done to guarantee that the constitutional mandate of a peaceful transfer of power on January 20th takes place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: From here on out, it only gets harder and harder to get into D.C. Metro has closed 13 public transit stations here. The bridges from Virginia into D.C. will close starting tomorrow through Inauguration Day. And we have learned that the FAA will more heavily restrict the already very restricted airspace around Washington. Brianna, this is going to be an Inauguration Day like no other.

KEILAR: Yes, it is, like you said, unprecedented. D.C. is shut down right now. Thank you so much, Pete.

We're also learning much more about some of the people that the FBI says stormed the Capitol two weeks ago. And that includes Riley June Williams from Pennsylvania, who is -- a person who said they were a former romantic partner of Williams identified her to the FBI in video inside the Capitol building, and directing people upstairs to Pelosi's office. This is according to an affidavit that was filed Sunday supporting Williams' arrest.

TEXT: Riley June Williams Charges: Violent entry or disorderly conduct, entering the restricted space of the Capitol. Affidavit: Allegedly seen taking a laptop or hard drive from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office. Tipster: Planned to send device to friend in Russia to sell to foreign intelligence service

KEILAR: The tipster also claimed to have spoken to friends of Williams who showed the tipster -- the tipster said -- a video of Williams taking a laptop computer or hard drive from Speaker Pelosi's office. We should be clear, there is no evidence that a computer was taken from Pelosi's office.

The FBI says it appears Williams fled and deleted her social media accounts. She has not yet been arrested.

And then there's Robert Gieswein of Colorado, decked out in tactical gear during the riot. Prosecutors say he's a member of the far-right militia group The Three Percenters. Gieswein apparently runs his own private paramilitary training group, and the FBI says photos show him carrying a baseball bat as he climbed through a shattered window into the Capitol.

TEXT: Robert Gieswein: Faces five charges; Alleged to be member of far-right armed group, runs private paramilitary training group; Prosecutors: wore military-style vest, helmet, googles and camo

KEILAR: But the Three Percenters were far from the only militant group at the Capitol. Jon Schaffer was seen wearing an Oath Keepers hat during the riot, he's also the front man for a heavy metal band called "Iced Earth." The FBI says Schaffer had bear spray that he used against Capitol Police.

TEXT: Jon Ryan Schaffer: Faces six charges related to the storming of the U.S. Capitol; Wore hat referring to far-right anti-government group; Captured on video and in photos with bear spray

KEILAR: CNN's senior justice correspondent Evan Perez is here now with more for us.

I mean, Evan, there are some new charges that just came down as well for two members of an Ohio militia. What can you tell us about those?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brianna. At this point now, we're getting into some of the anti-government groups like the Oath Keepers, these self-styled militias that have now been arrested. And they're, frankly, a higher priority for the law enforcement, because some of these people had paramilitary training, some of them appear -- you could see them in the videos, there was a coordinated effort to try to enter the Capitol, in some cases violently.

And the two names that we have that just got arrested, Donovan Crowl and Jessica Watkins, they call themselves -- they said they were members of this group called the Ohio State Regular Militia. And again, this is a group that is tied to the Oath Keepers, which is sort of a loose group, they're all over the country, they're generally anti-government.

And you know, according to the complaint, they entered the Capitol there, you can see them in some of these pictures. They are on video, on pictures wearing paramilitary gear. And according to the FBI affidavit of their arrests, they say that they went into the Capitol, they said they went there peacefully.

But that is not the impression of law enforcement, they said that they went into the Capitol by force, and so that's the reason why they're facing these charges.

Now, this is only the beginning, we expect that we're going to see dozens more of charges like this because, again, there were a number of groups that are self-styled militia groups that went into the Capitol, and law enforcement believes and prosecutors believe that they were responsible for some of the coordination, some of the command-and-control tactics that we have seen in some of these videos -- Brianna.

[14:05:20]

KEILAR: Evan, thank you for that update, live for us here in Washington.

And we also want to highlight one final suspect from the riots, and that is Timothy Hale-Cusanelli. The FBI says he's an Army reservist who also had a Secret-level security clearance. Prosecutors say he was encouraging other rioters during the siege and giving directions to people inside the Capitol.

TEXT: Timothy Hale-Cusanelli: Army reservist with secret-level security clearance, according to federal investigators; Described by informant as "an avowed white supremacist and Nazi sympathizer"; Court docs: gave directions to mob "via both voice and hand signals"

KEILAR: One informant told the FBI that Hale-Cusanelli is an avowed white supremacist and Nazi sympathizer. It is unclear if he has been arrested at this point.

And that brings us to the work that the FBI is doing today: They're screening the thousands of National Guard members in D.C. for potential extremists. Here's what the head of the D.C. National Guard said about this today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM WALKER, COMMANDING GENERAL, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA NATIONAL GUARD: They're screened, and then they're repeatedly screened until they are actually put on the street. A regular background check is enhanced with more screening, more details, and it's layered. So the FBI is part of it, the Secret Service is part of it. And once they are certain that there's no insider threat, then that soldier, guardsman or airman is given a credential.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: White nationalism inside the military is not a new problem, as my next guest told Congress when he urged them this summer to remove the, quote, "cancer from the ranks." Retired Air Force Lieutenant General Jack Weinstein is joining us now to talk about this. He is currently a professor at Boston University in International Security.

General, thank you so much for being with us on this important topic. Tell us how big of a problem this is in the military.

JACK WEINSTEIN, RETIRED LIEUTENANT GENERAL, U.S. AIR FORCE: Well, Brianna, it's a pleasure to be with you this afternoon, but I wish it was under different circumstances. I believe it's a problem in the military, and it's a cancer that does need to be eradicated. I don't believe it's something that has infused all the different branches, but I do believe there are pockets.

We have seen people in Charlottesville that were members of the military. Obviously you reported on what was going on on January 6th, so this is something that the military needs to do now.

The screening that is being done for the inauguration will be done extremely thoroughly. What really needs to happen, though, is this screening needs to happen across the entire military, and we should be removing people that are members even if they are not active members, because it's really against their oath of office.

KEILAR: And you explain this, as you have urged Congress to take this on, that being in an extremist or white nationalist group doesn't disqualify a person from serving in the military. There's a distinction made between some who's active, as you put it, doing something like fundraising. Can you explain this to us? Why are they not disqualified?

WEINSTEIN: So, Brianna, let me explain how this came about. We were doing a course, and I had a student that did a tremendous study on white nationalism. And what she found out in her research is that just being a member alone -- not being active -- was something that would not remove people from military service. When she discussed that with me, we realized that we had a bigger problem in the military, that people need to be removed that are members of these groups.

If you're trying to create a military that represents all the people of this country, represents the diversity of this great nation, then you simply can't have somebody who is a white nationalist and stay in the military. It is -- violates, as I said, the oath of office, and these people need to be removed. KEILAR: And I think we should be clear, there are a lot of people who

do not go into the military, obviously, with these intentions -- I am a proud member myself of a military family, so I want to be clear about that. They go in to serve their country, they go in for the opportunities that it affords.

But extremist groups actually encourage -- as you point out -- their members to join the military, and they like to recruit from the military. Tell us about this.

WEINSTEIN: Well, the reason they like to recruit the military, is the military provides discipline. The military also provides -- and I'll use a scary topic for this discussion -- they provide weapons training. And these people get weapons training, whether it has to do with explosive devices or just simply how to use a machine gun.

So they do actively promote trying to get ex-military people or people that are serving in the military to be in these groups, which is in antithesis to the entire -- the reason why people should be joining the military.

[14:10:02]

KEILAR: And journalists --

(CROSSTALK)

WEINSTEIN: And I want to just --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Yes, go on.

WEINSTEIN: -- Brianna, I just want to -- yes, sorry. I do want to bring up one additional point though. For all of us, including you and everybody else in your audience that has served in the military, all of us, a large percentage of us have done it for patriotism and support of this country.

It really is an insult that these people are tarnishing the good names of all those people that came before us and all those people today, whether they're active duty, Reserves or Guard, that are serving in the military. They're tarnishing the good image of the United States military.

And more importantly, from a national security perspective, as our adversaries look at the U.S. military, we really need to start defining national security differently. National security and the strength of the United States isn't simply the amount of weapons we have or the amount of ships we have or airplanes we have, it's the individual sailor, soldier, airman, Marine, and space individual that are serving the nation.

And having these people that are disparaging and that are white nationalists, going against the Constitution, becomes a national security concern as our allies look at the United States and what we represent.

KEILAR: Yes, such a good point. Sir, thank you so much. General, we really appreciate you being with us.

WEINSTEIN: Thank you very much, Brianna.

KEILAR: And a reminder, CNN will have special live coverage of the inauguration of Joe Biden. That will take place all day Wednesday, so don't forget to join us for a history-making event.

We do have some new video today of moving trucks at the president's Mar-a-Lago resort as he is preparing to leave the White House, and there's word that he's planning an elaborate send-off on his way out of Washington.

Plus, some lawmakers are now calling for the president to be cut off from future intelligence briefings.

And later, I will be joined by Martin Luther King Jr.'s eldest son: what he thinks his father would make of the state of the country right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:16:22]

KEILAR: On Joe Biden's Inauguration Day, President Trump is still hoping to be treated like a president. CNN has learned that President Trump asked for a splashy sendoff at Joint Base Andrews, as the outgoing president and first lady take a final presidential flight aboard Air Force One on their way to Mar-a-Lago. Let's bring in Kaitlan Collins at the White House.

Kaitlan, what more are you learning about this unprecedented exit?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's going to be a weird one. Because this is the first time, you know, in so many decades that we have not seen a president actually attend his successor's inauguration.

And you know, on top of that, the president hasn't even called the president-elect yet, so that's still also unusual, just to see no communication between the president, the president-elect or the first lady and the incoming first lady, which is what we are seeing.

And so instead of the president being seated in the front row on Wednesday, at Biden's inauguration, he is planning to leave Washington earlier that morning. But first, he wants the sendoff ceremony at Joint Base Andrews, where basically he is expecting the military to be there, the red carpet to be rolled out. But he also wants something that, of course, he so often craves, which is that adoring crowd, bidding him goodbye.

And so the White House has started sending invitations to former administration officials, friends of the president, some of his political allies here in Washington, inviting them, telling them they can bring up to five guests per invitation to come to Joint Base Andrews. Of course, that's going to be around 8:00 in the morning, we're expecting right now, based on when the president is going to arrive in Florida.

And so I think a question that still remains to be seen is how many people are actually going to show up for that sendoff ceremony, given how locked down Washington is, there aren't a lot of people coming into town for that. But also the president has been incredibly politically toxic in his final days in office, given his response to that attack on the Capitol.

And so that is what we're expecting for right now, we're waiting to see if more details come from that and whether or not the president's going to speak at the airport before he actually gets on Air Force One for that last time as president.

But we should note that they are already preparing for his arrival in Palm Beach, because we saw moving trucks from a D.C.-based company at his Mar-a-Lago club today, and so they are putting the final touches on the president's arrival there, where of course he is expected to spend his post-presidency live -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes. And it is fascinating to see this already under way even though there won't be the normal kind of dignified transfer of power.

So the outgoing president heading to Florida on Inauguration Day. What about things like the nuclear codes, the so-called nuclear football briefcase that would have to be handed off to Biden? How does that go down, considering they'll be, you know, a thousand miles apart when Biden's inaugurated?

COLLINS: Yes, this is going to be unusual as well because you always see a military aide carrying that nuclear football with the president. You know, if he gets on Marine One, you see them right behind him; they're always just a few steps away from him in case that is something that he would need.

And given the president is going to be in Florida, there are going to be two nuclear footballs on Wednesday, one that travels with President Trump in Florida, given he is president until noon and of course, they have to plan for a worst-case scenario. But then there's going to be a second one here in Washington, waiting for Joe Biden to be sworn in.

So what's interesting is at noon, once that transfer of power does happen, the codes on President Trump's nuclear football will no longer work, they are going to be inactive. And so that is how that transfer happens, you see how they plan it just down to the minute for that transfer of power to happen.

Because of course, given typically the presidents are here, waiting for their successor to be inaugurated, you're seeing how they are having to prepare for the president's plan to go to Florida early as well.

KEILAR: Kaitlan, thank you so much, live for us covering the White House, we appreciate it. [14:20:02]

And consider this, that President Trump hasn't been seen publicly in six days, and his schedule has been mostly empty since Election Day. If you take a look, from Tuesday, November 3rd until today, more than half of the time -- 46 days -- no public events at all have been listed on the president's schedule. But Trump has spent 16 days golfing on one of his own courses.

CNN contributor Garrett Graff is joining us now, he's the author of several books including "The Threat Matrix: Inside Mueller's FBI," among them.

So, Garrett, if, you know, little to nothing is on his schedule, what the heck has he been doing since the election?

GARRETT GRAFF, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, what we know so far is that he has been spent a lot of time grousing, you know, talking to aides, friends, his dwindling pool of allies, complaining about this election, complaining and trying to pressure election officials to try to overcome it.

And now, we understand, you know, in the 10 days or so since the insurrection at the Capitol, when he has even gotten more toxic -- as Kaitlan Collins was just saying -- he has turned his focus to trying to squeeze out a few final actions as president.

We are expecting, in the next 48 hours, at some point, to see as many as 100 pardons come down from the president. And this is something that typically all presidents do in their final hours, but no one has ever abused the pardon power as much as President Trump has. So everyone's waiting with bated breath to see who ends up on that list in these next few hours.

KEILAR: Yes, he loves the pardon, that sort of unilateral aspect of just being able to decide whatever it is that he wants.

When he is out of office, there's -- we're now hearing from Congressman Adam Schiff and Senator Angus King that Trump should not get classified intel briefings once he's gone. This is what King said on "STATE OF THE UNION."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ANGUS KING (I-ME): There's a grave danger of him inadvertently or willfully revealing classified information that would compromise sources and methods, and there's no upside, there's no reason that he needs to have this information. It's a courtesy that's been passed on from president to president, but there's no legal requirement. And I think, given his past history of being fast and loose with intelligence data, it ought -- that ought to be an easy decision for the incoming president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: So ultimately, Garrett, it is going to be up to Joe Biden. But has a new president ever withheld these briefings from a former president before?

GRAFF: Well, you have to understand what the tradition of sharing classified intelligence usually relates to. It's so that the current president can turn to former presidents, to predecessors for advice. It's because presidents often turn to their predecessors to help represent the U.S. and carry out sensitive diplomatic conversations around the world.

This is something, you know, John F. Kennedy, in the wake of the Bay of Pigs, went and saw Dwight Eisenhower to ask for advice. We've seen, you know, Jimmy Carter, we've seen President Clinton both enlisted to try to go around the world and rescue American hostages or people kidnapped overseas.

Those scenarios are near-impossible to imagine with Donald Trump. I mean, just, you know, what is the topic that Joe Biden might want to ask Donald Trump's advice on? What is the sensitive mission that Joe Biden might want to enlist Donald Trump on? There's just absolutely no reason that Donald Trump is ever going to need to know classified intelligence ever again.

KEILAR: Yes, it's hard to imagine him being enlisted as an emissary, as other past presidents have. And it's a very good point. Garrett, it's great to see you. Garrett Graff, thank you.

GRAFF: Always a pleasure.

KEILAR: Next, a newly elected Republican lawmaker from Colorado is accused by one of her fellow lawmakers of giving tours at the Capitol in the days leading up to the riots. Hear how she is responding to this.

[14:24:22]

Plus, we're expecting about 100 pardons from President Trump in his final 48 hours, and there are new reports that some of his allies are trying to get rich from it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Did a freshman congresswoman give a large group a tour of the Capitol in the days leading up to the insurrection? That is what one top House Democrat, Congressman Steve Cohen of Tennessee, told CNN earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. STEVE COHEN (D-TN): We saw Congressman Boebert taking a group of people for a tour sometime after the 3rd and before the 6th, I don't remember the date. We (ph) walked in a tunnel, we saw her, confident (ph) who she was, and she had a large group with her.

Now, whether (INAUDIBLE) all (INAUDIBLE) might (ph) have had a large number of people coming to be with her on this historic occasion, and just wanting to give them the opportunity to have a tour. But it was pretty clear that her team is the team -- she's not on the home team, she was with the visitors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:29:52]

KEILAR: Now, Capitol tours have actually ceased because of coronavirus. Some Democrats have alleged that a GOP colleague gave a, quote, "reconnaissance tour" of the Capitol the day before the mob swarmed the building.