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Democrat Rep. Accuses GOP's Boebert Of Giving Tours Before Riot; NYT: Trump Allies Collecting Fees To Push For Possible Last- Minute Pardons; Trump Leaning Away From Pardoning Himself, Family Members, Close Associates; Update On Security Situation Around The Country Amid Threats Ahead Of Inauguration; Interview With Martin Luther King III. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired January 18, 2021 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Some Democrats alleged that a GOP colleague gave a, quote, "reconnaissance tour" of the capitol the day before the mob swarmed the building, but Cohen says he's not sure if any in that group took part in Lauren Boebert's group took part in the riot, to be clear on that.

I want to bring in Manu Raju on Capitol Hill.

What is Boebert saying about this, Manu?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: She has actually been accused of this over the last several days. And some Democratic members suggested she had a role here.

She has pushed back. She sent a letter last week to one Democratic congressman saying that she had not given a tour due to the insurrectionists. She said she did go walk around the capitol with her family.

She said it was her mom, according to this letter, that I'm looking at now, that she sent. She said it was her mom, her children, her husband, her uncle.

And her mother was the only one of those family members in Washington, D.C., on the 6th. And she said, "During the riots, my mother was locked in a secure location in the U.S. capitol with my staff and never left their sight."

So she is denying she had any role in providing inside information to the insurrectionists.

She's gotten a fair amount of attention as one of the members who tried to challenge the results of the elections.

And she also saw controversy over the last several days, or had a staff shake-up over the last several days, when her communications director quit because of her role trying to challenge election results. She got into controversy, too, because she bragged about carrying

firearms around Capitol Hill. She got into a standoff with capitol police after they put on metal detectors to get into the House chambers.

Nevertheless, on this issue, she denies having any role. But there's an ongoing investigation to see if any members had any role. We'll see if any evidence emerges.

She's saying there's no evidence pointing to her role in any of this -- Brianna?

KEILAR: Manu, thank you so much. Manu Raju, live from Capitol Hill.

With less than 46 hours left in Donald Trump's presidency, CNN has learned President Trump is preparing to issue roughly 100 pardons and commutations on his final day in office, his final full day.

CNN has now been told he does not intend to take the unprecedented step of pardoning himself or any of his family members.

The "New York Times" reports some of the president's allies are collecting fees from wealthy felons or their associates to lean on Trump for possible last-minute pardons.

Neil Eggleston is a former White House Counsel under President Obama and he oversaw the clemency program under President Obama.

Neil, you have special expertise to this and so glad you could be on to talk with us about it.

I think we can agree it doesn't seem ethical to sell a presidential pardon or get paid a ton of money for access. Is this legal?

NEIL EGGLESTON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, it certainly is questionable.

Now, I assume the lawyers and the people who are peddling their access or claiming it's with their personal time and there's nothing improper going on.

But I think the spectacle, which is fairly consistent with what's happened in the Trump administration of monetizing, indeed, another portion of our government, which is the president's pardon power, is hardly surprising and really should be condemned.

KEILAR: When it comes to pardons, so far, President Trump has given clemency to far fewer than President Obama and some other recent presidents.

Take us through the final 48 hours of the pardoning process and what typically goes on behind the scenes at the White House, in the Oval Office, at the Justice Department.

EGGLESTON: Sure. We had a very different process than what you're seeing or we're hearing about here. You know, President Obama decided and made it clear to me that he was

going to use his constitutional power, pardon power, for social justice and social good.

That is the clemency that he decided to grant to a lot of people who were serving life sentencing and significantly long sentences for their involvement in non-violent and many of them relatively trivial drug crimes mostly from the 1990s.

That's really what we were working on. And as I say, he really wanted to focus his power on giving new lives to people who were incarcerated, and that's what we were about.

This frantically running around and trying to figure out which of his supporters can bring him a new -- a person to benefit, that's just not the way we went about it.

And President Obama made it very clear that, in a short time and scarce-resource world, that's not where he wanted to focus his attention.

So that's not at all what happened at the end of the Obama administration.

KEILAR: Right now, it appears the president is now leaning away from something that he had asked about, which was pardoning himself. That he is now leaning away from pardoning his family members or some close associates.

[14:35:00]

If that changes, though, do you see -- do you see that changing? And if it does, will that hold up to legal challenges?

EGGLESTON: Well, I -- I mean, it's my view -- there's been debate, legal debate about this -- although I think it's actually fairly clear that a president cannot pardon himself.

I think if you think about it, that's the ultimate free pass that places the president of the United States above the law.

And I think it's pretty clear our framers, who just came out of a monarchy, had no sense the right way to go is to let the president of the United States place himself above the law.

That's not at all what they were thinking. And I think most Originalists would agree with me on that.

So I think that would not be recognized and not lawful if he attempted it.

KEILAR: There's, obviously, a number of Trump supporters who, Neil, are facing charges, we know that, from the siege on the capitol.

What would the implications be of the president deciding to pardon some of those folks who stormed the capitol? EGGLESTON: This would really be sort of the crowning blow, if you

will. I mean, the president was involved, I believe, in calling on his supporters to attack another branch of government.

Article III under our Constitution, and the --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Neil, Neil, I'm so sorry. I have to pause this conversation.

We're going to go to the vice president-elect speaking in Washington.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am very much looking forward to being sworn in as the next vice president of the United States. And I will walk there to that moment proudly with my head up and shoulders back.

Thank you!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, guys.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: All right. A very quick comment there, as we are watching Kamala Harris there in Washington, D.C. And you can see a very different scene there on the streets of the capitol.

Next -- and a thank you as well to Neil Eggleston for what was our slightly cut-off there interview.

Next, law enforcement in all 50 states are on high alert ahead of the inauguration. Our CNN reporters are fanned out across the country, and we are going to show you what the security situation looks like.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:41:15]

KEILAR: The nation's capital turned into a fortress ahead of President-Elect Joe Biden's inauguration on Wednesday.

It's not just Washington, D.C., gearing up for violence. The FBI has warned of threats at the capitals of all 50 states. Authorities are taking this seriously. They are beefing up security accordingly.

Let's get more from our CNN reporters across the country.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I'm Josh Campbell in Lancing, Michigan, outside of the state capital where the scene today is much different than yesterday.

You see behind me, not much of a security posture. That's different from yesterday when this street was filled with National Guard and state police vehicles after that FBI warning about potential armed protests across the country.

We didn't see any violence yesterday. There were about 25 people that showed up and left.

Officials saying it could have been the security posture that deterred armed people from coming out. They say they're continuing to assess the situation and will respond accordingly.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Omar Jimenez, in St. Paul, Minnesota. State officials say they're continuing to assess potential threats to the state capitol.

It's part of why shows of force like this have become increasingly familiar in places like St. Paul as we've seen in other parts of the country as well.

However, the Department of Public Safety in this state continues to stress there's no credible, immediate, local threat at the moment. However, they are ready to enhance their response and change tactics as needed.

BILL WEIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Bill Weir in Madison, Wisconsin, where Sunday brought out a grand total of two armed protesters all day.

So the most visible presence of National Guard, armored Humvees are gone today. About 500 National Guardsmen from Wisconsin are in Washington, D.C., this week to help fortify the nation's capital.

Meanwhile, here, they're hoping for the best. No specified threats, according to law enforcement, but five different agencies are on alert just in case.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Dianne Gallagher in Nashville. The gates remain up outside of the Tennessee state capitol. And there's a visible law enforcement presence, although it has been reduced, especially after yesterday. The Tennessee Freedom Event protest never actually materialized.

Now, officials in the state of Tennessee say they're going to keep up this law enforcement presence at least through the inauguration, that they're prepared for any sort of pop-up protests, especially after the FBI warned in that bulletin of potential armed demonstrations at all 50 state capitals.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Thank you to all of my colleagues for those reports.

Next, the disturbing new video from inside the capitol during the riots, including a prayer in the Senate chamber where the insurrectionists claim to be acting in Jesus' name.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:48:20] KEILAR: On this Martin Luther King Jr Day, more than 50 years since his assassination, there are areas in which America has both failed and advanced King's vision for the nation.

The country is as divided as ever. The capitol is on lockdown after a deadly insurrection where symbols of racism and anti-Semitism were prominently displayed.

Americans of all races are marching over the treatment of black men and women in police hands.

But there's also this. The nation will soon see its first black vice president, it's first female vice president. MLK's home state elected its first black Senator, helped by a black woman who made sure Georgians of all backgrounds had access to voting.

Let's talk now with the son of Martin Luther King Jr, the global human rights leader, Martin Luther King III.

Thank you very much for being with us.

I wonder if you would think about what your dad would make of the country today. What do you think?

MARTIN LUTHER KING III, GLOBAL HUMAN RIGHTS LEADER & SON OF MARTIN LUTHER KING JR: You know, my father always believed in the -- the people of our nation. Certainly, he would be greatly disappointed in how we have chosen to conduct ourselves at this particular moment.

But most particularly probably disappointed in the commander-in-chief. Because the commander-in-chief is supposed to bring people together and not to bring people together to actually intercept your government. And so I think he'd be greatly disappointed in that.

But he would always know that it takes a few good women and men to bring about change. And he tried to help to create the climate for us to move positively to get together.

[14:50:04]

He understood we are a United States of America, not a divided state of America. And he would be telling us we must turn to each other, not turn on each other.

KEILAR: You know, when I knew I was going to be able to interview you on this historic day, I thought about a moment that we've seen in some new video of the capitol, and I wanted to get your perspective on it.

This is a moment where rioters are praying in the Senate chamber.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for filling this chamber with patriots that love you and that love Christ. Thank you, God, for blessing each and every one of us. Thanks the divine spirit of God. (INAUDIBLE) Thank you for allowing the United States of America to be reborn. Thank you for allowing us to get rid of the Communists, the globalists and the traitors within our government.

We love and we thank you. In Christ's holy name, we pray!

CROWD: Amen!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: You know, I wonder what you think about this appropriation of Christianity, of invoking God and invoking Jesus in the middle of an insurrection.

KING: Well, some perhaps would say it's perplexing because that is not historically how we would be using religion in that particular way.

But, you know, when you have confusion and misdirection and poor leadership, it is -- this is what is bred.

So, again, I blame all of this on the current commander-in-chief, who, thank God, will be gone in just two or three days.

And we're going to have a new leader -- a new kind of leadership, a leadership that shows what a commander-in-chief -- how he or she, but how he, in this context, should lead our nation to talk about bringing people together, to address the pandemic, to address the economy by creating a jobs program, to address police brutality and misconduct when necessary, to address climate change.

And so we're going to see a new era brought in.

Ultimately, it's going to take us time to get past this particular moment. That is very difficult moment, a monumental moment for our nation.

But we, as a nation -- my father knew, my mother knew in their lives that we can and we must do better. We will do better.

We are much better than the behavior that we've seen exhibited over the last few days.

KEILAR: You know, I wonder how you make sense of, in the middle of this riot, we see a noose being set up often capitol grounds and some of the imagery that was paraded around as well.

And then, on the other hand, you have the first incoming black female vice president who had made, you know, an anti-lynching effort sort of part -- a clear part of what she was doing in Congress.

And I -- I wonder how you look at these two things, these two very different things that have happened here recently in our country.

KING: Well, it shows just really how far we still have to go, because there should not have been any hesitancy to -- to vote on the legislation that at the time Senator Harris was bringing up. And I know she and Rand Paul had been working together. It's -- it's

very disappointing that that mentality exists.

And the fact that just, as you say, a few days ago, people had a noose on the capitol floor. You know, you wonder what people were thinking about.

How hateful can you be? How sick can you be in our society that that would be a symbol that you chose to use that represents so much repression, suppression, and actually death of people.

That just should not be in the United States of America, not in 2021, not ever. Not in 1921 should it have been, but it was.

We've got a lot of work to do, a lot of work to do.

But I think there's a wonderful backdrop because, as you say, we're having the inauguration with the first black woman and Southeast Asian woman elected to be the vice president of the United States, and that's huge.

And, again, in our own state of Georgia, we're very proud because we elected the first black Senator and the first Jewish Senator from the state of Georgia.

And it was a coalition of blacks and whites and Jews and Latinos and old and young and Asians and young people, which made the difference here in the state of Georgia.

[14:55:04]

KEILAR: Yes. Very, very good point.

Martin Luther King III, thank you for joining us today.

KING: Thank you.

KEILAR: We have some breaking news in the investigation into the capitol attack. Two members of an Ohio military group have been charged with breaking into the capital. They're accused of using military-style tactics to break into the building. And we'll have details of that just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: You are watching CNN on this Monday afternoon. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being here.

[14:59:59]

Today is meant to honor the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King and everything he achieved to unite this nation.