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Biden Set to Roll Back Controversial Trump Administration Policies; Trump Set to Issue 100 Pardons; FBI Vets National Guard Ahead of Inauguration. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired January 18, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Today is meant to honor the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King and everything he achieved to unite this nation.

But, today, instead, we see a country divided and a massive security presence all around the U.S. Capitol. With just two days to go until president-elect Joe Biden is sworn into office, the ceremony at the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday will look very different from years past.

Look with me at the images here of this drone video all up and down this beautiful place in our nation, all along the National Mall, empty, typically, a viewing area for any American who would like to attend an inauguration, usually filled with people in the days leading up to the inauguration, but it is closed to the public this week.

Now, the security concerns are actually so great that 25,000 National Guard troops have been deployed to Washington, D.C., and we are now learning that every single one of those service members has been carefully vetted. Why? Because there are fears of a possible insider attack.

President Trump hasn't been seen in public in six entire days. But CNN is learning that he is preparing to issue roughly 100 pardons and commutations tomorrow, his final full day in office. That list reportedly includes white-collar criminals and high-profile rappers.

Meanwhile, president-elect Biden plans to issue several executive orders on day one. Today, here on MLK Day, here he is, along with his wife, Dr. Biden. They're volunteering in Philadelphia at a food bank.

I want to begin with those security fears, though, on Inauguration Day.

And let's go straight to Washington to CNN's Shimon Prokupecz.

And, Shimon, can you just tell me more about the National Guard members who are out and about all throughout the District, the fact that they're being vetted. What are law enforcement looking for?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, we're facing a very different kind of threat across the country than we have ever faced. And bringing in so many National Guard troops from all over the country, all different states, some 25,000 of them, has presented a different kind of security concern for officials. We're also facing a different kind of radicalization across the country, with people consuming so much of this extremism that in many ways led to what happened here on the Capitol, that that has officials concerned who else perhaps, people perhaps in the military, law enforcement that could be radicalized by consuming some of this false information.

And so what the military and law enforcement has been doing is going through social media, other various ways to try and figure out, to make sure that some of the people who they're bringing in to this area are not some of those people that have been radicalized.

So, that's the concern, the military saying that they have no intelligence of an insider threat. But, as you can see behind me, there are layers and layers of security.

BALDWIN: Right.

PROKUPECZ: There is this fence. There's razor wiring, and then you see the military, the National Guard troops all across the Capitol here, Brooke.

This is just one of the layers. Of course, as you go inside, there will be other layers of security. And then there's an entire outside perimeter with other military and law enforcement.

One of the things that we have been seeing -- and you can actually -- let me show you here to the right...

BALDWIN: Yes.

PROKUPECZ: ... that you can see there are dogs. There are dogs. That's actually a bus that's transporting National Guard troops. So, even they are being vetted in that way by bomb-sniffing dogs as they come in.

Those bomb-sniffing dogs will smell, make sure they're clear. And then they will allow those buses through that secure area. But that's some of what we're seeing out here, really unprecedented security in this country.

And we have never had an area, an event in this country that would require such security, from Super Bowl events, to other inaugurations, to conventions. This is the tightest and most serious security concern certainly that this country has faced perhaps ever -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: No, you just think about prior to these last few years, one never would have imagined Washington, D.C., our, the people's capital, looking like this. But you can never be too careful right now.

Shimon, thank you so much, with just the lay of the land and the security there in D.C.

More federal charges have been filed in this month's interaction at the U.S. Capitol, among them, an Army Reservist with secret level security level clearance.

CNN's Evan Perez is following the string of charges and arrests.

And, Evan, just first, who is this Army Reservist?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, his name is Timothy Hale-Cusanelli. He's, as you said, an Army Reservist.

And he did have a security clearance. According to the court papers that the prosecutors have filed, he, according to an informant, had -- essentially, he was an avowed white supremacist and Nazi sympathizer.

And the court documents lay out how, allegedly, he was one of the people who was giving instructions, helping the crowd move through some of these barricades into the Capitol.

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One of the concerns that we have heard, from law enforcement from the prosecutors is that there were a number of people who clearly had some kind of military training, paramilitary training, and that they served a key role to try to help lead this assault into the U.S. Capitol.

And people like this man are the ones that they're thinking about. We have seen a couple -- a couple of other arrests in the last couple of days -- in the last 24 hours as well in Ohio, similar situation. These are anti-government groups that have some kind of military training. Some of them are recruiting former members of the military, particularly because they have this training.

And, on January 6, this training was key to help assault the Capitol. And, again, we're going to see a lot more of these arrests. And we're going to hear a lot more about the command-and-control aspect that prosecutors believe was working -- was at work here.

BALDWIN: We heard -- you and I were listening to the FBI/DOJ news conference last week. They were saying there will be charges, presumably in the hundreds, in the wake of what happened two weeks ago.

The who is part of it. The what they took is another part of it right, Evan? Because the FBI is also investigating this laptop that was apparently taken by this woman by this, by one of the rioters from, of all people, Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office. What's the story there? Have they found the laptop?

PEREZ: They don't know whether she actually took a laptop.

Now, this is some information that came from somebody, an associate of this person. The name is Riley Williams. And according to this informant to the FBI, that she was saying that she had photographs of this laptop and came up with this plan that she was going to try to sell or transfer this laptop to the Russians.

She had somebody, a contact there that she said she could give it to her. Again, none of this story has so far been verified by the FBI. But it is something that they're investigating. We know that there's a deep concern about sensitive documents and electronics that were taken during the assault on the Capitol.

And so we're seeing -- we're waiting to see what more they find out from this person.

BALDWIN: And we know that Speaker Pelosi's office confirmed a laptop is missing.

PEREZ: Right, from a conference room, right, exactly.

BALDWIN: Exactly.

Evan, thank you, Evan Perez in Washington.

With me now, Daryl Johnson, former senior domestic terrorism analyst at the Department of Homeland Security. And Daryl also published a book in 2019 called "Hateland: A Long, Hard Look at America's Extremist Heart."

So, Daryl, welcome. You are the perfect person to be talking to about all of this. You have been warning about these white supremacist, Nazi sympathizers for years. We have been reporting that they are now emboldened by the -- quote -- "success" of that insurrection at the Capitol.

Why do you see this as the beginning of a new phase of violence and hostility in this country?

DARYL JOHNSON, FORMER LEAD ANALYST, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, there's a couple of reasons.

Number one, as you have said, this threat has been growing year after year, attack after attack, plot after plot.

So, we have already had a rich history over the past 10 years of this threat growing and the government response being inadequate and outright not even taking action for several of these years.

Couple that with a newly elected Democratic administration coming into power. That's usually when these far right groups thrive and become even more agitated and active. Typically, during the Republican-led administrations, they decrease their activities.

But with the Trump administration, they basically poured fuel on this raging fire and made it even worse. So, now we're going into a period where these groups are going to be fearful of the type of Democratic policies related to gun restrictions or gun bans or possible expanding rights to minorities, immigration issues.

So, that's why I fear this is a new phase that we're going to be entering.

BALDWIN: Which is frightening to hear.

And I think before we talk about what the Biden administration needs to do looking ahead, I want to look back a little bit more, because we all know white supremacy has been deeply rooted in this in this nation for years and years and years.

But how did this group, Daryl, move -- how did the movement, whatever we call it, really start to bubble? I know you wrote this report about the combination of, at the time, 2007, a black man running for president, and then cut to the next year, the housing crisis in 2008. How did that create this storm?

JOHNSON: So, this was like the worst nightmare come true for white supremacists was having a black in the White House, as they say.

So, couple that with an economic downturn, when people are unemployed, looking for new jobs and areas to blame for their unemployment, and then you couple that with a pandemic. These anti-government groups do not like the government, even their own governors, clamping down with mask mandates and limiting the number of people gathering and shutting down businesses and things like this.

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So, they look at all of this as an infringement on their rights. And so the Trump administration putting out all this disinformation about a rigged election and how there was rampant voter fraud really kind of stokes the fears and paranoia of these groups that our government is running amok, and that it's corrupt and out of control.

BALDWIN: So, what can Joe Biden's do about it? What does his administration need to do to stop this?

JOHNSON: Well, I have been advocating a multifaceted approach.

Certainly, our federal agencies need to get on the same page and work together as a team to develop strategies and tools to combat these extremists. I'm talking about long-term undercover investigations. I'm talking about more analytical resources being brought to bear, more money, laws delineating roles and responsibilities among the federal agencies.

But there also needs to be a grassroots effort in our communities, and among each other that we need to form watch groups to build relationships of trust with the police and the media to talk about these types of extremists in our communities.

And if we have family members, friends, neighbors, or co-workers that are members of these extremist movements or embrace these conspiracy theories, we need to be reaching out to them, in an act of compassion, and in a loving way bring them back and reacclimate them into our mainstream society and make them productive people, and hopefully pull them away from these poisonous ideologies that are causing people to get angry.

BALDWIN: I hope everyone is listening so, so carefully and closely to you.

Daryl Johnson, thank you for your work in this space, your expertise and your perspective. Daryl, thank you.

JOHNSON: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: The moving trucks, they have rolled up to Mar-a-Lago, and the pardon plans are in high gear.

How this president is spending his final hours in office, that's ahead.

Also, president-elect Joe Biden will not waste any time reversing a number of the president's most controversial policies . We will tell you about the executive orders that are coming on day one.

And COVID cases finally trending down, but the vaccine rollout still a mess.

You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. We will be right back.

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BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being here.

We have not seen President Trump in public for nearly a week. He has been MIA for six days, consumed, of course, with his election loss. But he has another big hand to play before he leaves office Wednesday. I'm talking about his pardon power.

The president is expected to unleash as many as 100 pardons and commutations tomorrow, his final full day in office. And the big question is, will he pardon himself or even perhaps members of his own family?

Let's first go to our chief White House correspondent, Jim Acosta.

And, Jim, what are you hearing about these pardons?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

Well, what we're hearing is that there should be about 100 or so pardons or other acts of clemency before the president leaves office. He's been meeting behind closed doors with advisers and lawyers, on the phone with other lawyers and advisers for several days now.

We don't expect at this point, talking to our sources, that the president will pardon himself or his adult children. But, as one source was telling me earlier today, Brooke, he could write this out on a cocktail napkin before he leaves the Oval Office.

And so they understand that the president is unpredictable and even more unpredictable these days. And so we're going to have to wait and see what that final list looks like.

But I was told by a source with knowledge of these talks just a short while ago that it may not be as controversial and exciting as everybody first thought.

BALDWIN: Huh.

ACOSTA: But, again, past being prologue, we know how this president is. There may be some more surprises in store before that is ultimately decided.

BALDWIN: Yes, yes.

I also want to ask you. On the actual Inauguration Day, we know that the Trumps are snubbing the Bidens. They're just up and leaving town.

ACOSTA: Yes.

BALDWIN: Tell me about this send-off he's creating for himself, complete with a red carpet?

ACOSTA: Yes, I mean, it is a disgraceful end to a disgraceful presidency in many ways, Brooke.

I mean, for the president to not show up at his successor's inauguration, I mean, that is just going to go down in history as another slap in the face of the democratic process that we have all grown accustomed to in this country.

But, as we're seeing these Biden/Harris signs being posted on Pennsylvania Avenue, just outside the White House, the president can see all of this. They're planning for a grand departure ceremony for outgoing President Trump on Wednesday morning at Joint Base Andrews.

And I can show you something on screen right now. This is what the invitation looks like that's going out to people who have been invited to the event. We have blocked out, obviously, some of the RSVP e-mail information.

But if you look closely at this invitation, Brooke, it says you may RSVP up to five guests.

BALDWIN: Huh.

ACOSTA: Typically, Brooke, when you and I are invited to things, we can't bring five guests.

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BALDWIN: It's pretty tight security.

ACOSTA: Yes. Well, we will see.

But I'm told by a White House adviser that the president wants a big crowd. You know how he is with crowd sizes.

And so this seems to apply to this departure ceremony as well. They're trying to get as many people over there as possible, because he knows, they know it's going to be overshadowed by this inauguration that's taking place on Wednesday -- Brooke. BALDWIN: Yes, I don't think we have ever seen an invitation from any

White House ever that says, and bring five of your closest friends, never, ever, ever, ever.

ACOSTA: No. Speaks volumes. That's right.

BALDWIN: Jim Acosta, thank you.

ACOSTA: You bet.

BALDWIN: I want to talk about these pardons again.

"The New York Times" is reporting that some of Trump's allies have been -- they have been lobbying, right, and have been raking in thousands of dollars from felons and their associates to secure a pardon from the president.

CNN legal analyst former federal and state prosecutor Elie Honig is with me now.

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And, Elie, good to see you.

We have talked about this for months. We are now basically at pardon eve. We know former presidents have issued far more pardons than President Trump. But you say the issue here is the quality, and not the quantity. How do you mean?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Brooke.

So, if you look at President Trump, he has only issued 94 pardons and commutations during his term. Even if he doubles that tomorrow, that will be far less than his predecessors.

However, if you look at the people who he has pardoned, the way he's used those pardons, he's essentially given them all to his own personal allies, his political allies, a lineup of crooks and cronies and celebrities.

Compare that to Barack Obama. Now, Obama issued way, way more pardons. But those predominantly went to people who were nonviolent low-level drug offenders serving outrageous sentences, decades, life behind bars. And if you even go back one president further, George W. Bush decided that he was only going to consider last-minute pardons if they had come through the proper DOJ vetting channels to sort of make sure that his pardons were distributed equally and fairly.

And so I think both of those really form a sharp contrast with the way Donald Trump has used his pardon power.

BALDWIN: Well, let's name some potential names, right?

Some folks being thrown around, Steve Bannon, Rudy Giuliani, the president's own family members. Who will you be watching out for tomorrow? HONIG: Yes, so look, the worst-case scenario is if the president

pardons anybody to do with the Capitol riots. I think, if he does that, it will virtually ensure that he gets convicted by the Senate at his impeachment trial, and then probably disqualified. That will be the end of his political career. I think that's somewhat unlikely.

The other one I would put in the worst-case scenario category is, as you said, Rudy Giuliani, who, by the way, I include in the Capitol rioters category for his role in inciting that. But, look, Rudy Giuliani has all sorts of criminal liability. Reportedly, he's been under investigation for financial fraud, campaign finance fraud.

I think he has criminal exposure for Ukraine, for his role in the Capitol riot. And if President Trump pardons Rudy Giuliani, he's also doing himself a favor, because, if Rudy Giuliani were ever to get charged criminally, he could decide to cooperate. That could hurt Donald Trump. So, a part of Rudy Giuliani really would help Donald Trump himself.

BALDWIN: But the fact that -- I want to go back to what I said off the top about how some of his associates are making money off this.

Like, "The New York Times" today is reporting that some of Trump's allies have been making in the thousands of dollars from felons or felons' lawyers to lobby Trump for clemency. And when you read the piece in "The New York Times" today, they point out that Bill Clinton issued something like 170 pardons and commutations, some of which went to people who paid these six-figure sums.

So, Trump's friends making money off of this, after all the outrage with Bill Clinton, how is this even still allowed?

HONIG: Yes, Brooke.

So, look, I think Bill Clinton is the best historical example. On his last day in office in 2001, as you said, Bill Clinton issued over 100 pardons, many of them to political allies, donors, even his own half- brother.

Now, what happened there, that sparked a criminal investigation by my old office, the Southern District of New York. It did not result in any convictions or charges. However, I think, if the president goes down this road, based on "The New York Times"' reporting, prosecutors absolutely have to take a look. This can't be influence peddling.

We can't have a system where people can just -- wealthy people can use their access, use their checkbooks, and essentially buy a pardon. So, I urge prosecutors, when this is all over, depending how this plays out, don't be afraid. Prosecutors need to dig in and take a hard look here and make sure our pardon process is not being abused and bought and sold.

BALDWIN: Appreciate you saying that.

Elie Honig, good to see you. Thank you so much.

HONIG: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: President-elect Joe Biden is revealing his plans to roll back some of the -- President Trump's more controversial policies. And he will do it on day one. We will tell you what those are.

And Trump's historic second impeachment -- what the Senate trial could look like.

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BALDWIN: President-elect Joe Biden and first-lady-to-be Jill Biden marked this National Day of Service in honor of Dr. King by volunteering at a Philadelphia food bank, president-elect Biden, just two days away from becoming the nation's 46th commander in chief and inheriting a nation in turmoil on multiple levels.

Besides combating the pandemic, Biden has plans to immediately sign several executive orders rolling back some of Donald Trump's more controversial policies.

Arlette Saenz is our senior political correspondent there in Wilmington.

And you have the details on the Biden plans come 12:01:00 p.m. Wednesday afternoon. What will those first few executive orders, Arlette, entail?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Brooke, president-elect Biden wants to show that he will be ready to hit the ground running on January 20.

And his team is readying about a dozen executive actions for him to sign that very first day in office. Now, a lot of these executive orders will build on promises he made during the presidential campaign, and some of them will aim to undo some of the policies of the Trump administration.

That includes rescinding that ban on travelers from predominantly Muslim countries, as well as rejoining the Paris climate agreement. That was something that was negotiated during the Obama/Biden administration.

There are also some executive actions tied to the pandemic that he plans to continue. That includes that moratorium on foreclosures and evictions, as well as a pause on federal student loan payments.

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