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Trump Expected to Issue Pardons Today; Biden Aims to Unify the Nation Tomorrow; Pentagon Preps for Inauguration Handoff; Demand for Vaccine Outpacing Supply. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired January 19, 2021 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:31:27]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: We are all watching the White House. Today it is the president's final full day in office. We're also hearing that he may issue just around 100 pardons and commutations during this last full day there.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

HARLOW: The list, the reporting is, will likely include white collar criminals, some celebrities and others.

SCIUTTO: Right now, as far as we know, it does not appear the president will put himself on that list in the unprecedented step of a self-pardon.

Joining us now to discuss is Elliot Williams, he's a former federal prosecutor and CNN legal analyst.

I just wonder, you know, let's set aside the question of whether he pardons himself or his family. We don't know. Current reporting is not. But we do believe on this list there are going to be people in there who are part of investigations that involve the president. For instance, the head -- someone who advises businesses in New York considering what the New York prosecutors are looking into.

I just wonder, when you look at that, that's obviously in his interest to pardon those people so they don't testify against him.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Sure.

SCIUTTO: I mean is the pardon power broken? Does it need reformed? And how would you do reform?

WILLIAMS: Yes, look, the biggest sin, the biggest problem in all of this is that process -- the president has never followed process with respect to the pardons he's issued. And what we've left -- what we're left with now are people able to reach the president, either through money or simply by picking up the phone and calling him. There was reporting all weekend that, you know, people who can't reach the president on the phone are now calling Jared Kushner and Mark Meadows, the chief of staff, to make the case for their own personal pardons.

What this is leading to is sort of a rotten process that's allowing itself to be gamed. But we could have avoided this if -- well, there are two ways we could have avoided it. One, if Congress had done its job and removed the president of the United States on the two different occasions they had to do so, both in 2020 and last year. But failing that, if the president simply followed the process that has existed in the Justice Department for something like a century where they provide recommendations to him as to who is legally sound for a pardon, who is politically wise for a pardon, but also where justice is served by issuing a grant of clemency. That's been blown up by this president and now all these friends are getting pardons.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Does the public have to know about all of them, Elliot?

SCIUTTO: Good question.

HARLOW: Can essentially secret pardons happen?

WILLIAMS: Well, yes. Yes and no. Here's the thing, we don't know yet because it's never been done.

HARLOW: Right.

WILLIAMS: Now pardons need to be documented. So the president does have to write it down, or at least put it down somewhere, but there's nowhere in the law that says that the president needs to have made it public.

Now, it's a great disservice to law enforcement in this country if they don't know who they can charge with crimes because they don't know who's been pardoned. So public policy is best served by having pardons be open and transparent and in the public. But, once again, it's just something that we've seen flouted by this president.

It gets back -- you know, I hate to sound like a broken record or a broken pundit for you but, you know, we talked about this on this program before, too. The solution was to remove the president so that we're not here 27 hours prior to the end of his term debating all of the ways he's going to stretch the law and bend the law in a manner that serves him personally and not the United States and certainly not the White House.

SCIUTTO: Bend the law and convention. He has still not said he lost the race fair and square. And apparently won't do it.

Elliot Williams, thanks very much.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, despite all that, Joe Biden will be sworn in as the 46th president tomorrow in the exact same place a deadly uprising occurred just two weeks ago.

[09:35:04]

Now, at this moment, 25,000 National Guards men and women are on the ground in Washington. That is five times as many as U.S. troops deployed today to Afghanistan and Iraq combined. That's the security necessary to secure the Capitol and the inauguration today. Just remarkable.

With me now is one of the people in charge of tomorrow's program, Stephanie Cutter. She's executive producer of the presidential inauguration.

Stephanie, thanks so much for taking time this morning.

STEPHANIE CUTTER, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, BIDEN PRESIDENTIAL INAUGURAL COMMITTEE: Good morning.

SCIUTTO: First, I do want to begin with security here because I know that this is not the image that you or your team wanted to deal with, a city, and you've seen it, right, 25,000 folks in uniform, many of them armed, the police presence, the genuine threat.

Are you confident, as you plan this, that this will be a safe event?

CUTTER: Well, look, I -- you know, security forces are working very closely together. Secret Service has a very good plan in place. It's a pretty seamless plan.

You know, I think we're confident that we'll be able to pull this inauguration off. It already has a very small footprint, which was the case because we are trying to control anybody from, you know, jeopardizing public health because of the pandemic.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CUTTER: So with that, we have a small footprint that is very secure. Certainly nobody wants the capital of the United States of America to be surrounded by the National Guard to protect its public officials, but that's where we are right now. And I think what you'll hear tomorrow from a newly sworn in President Biden is that it's time to turn the page and to start turning a new path for this country, one that is not divisive, you know?

What we saw at the Capitol two weeks ago was certainly nothing we ever want to witness again in this country.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CUTTER: It's time to turn the page and start charting a better future for this country.

SCIUTTO: Just quickly so we understand if any changes were made, how is the plan different today than it -- where it stood on January 5th before the riot?

CUTTER: You know, there has been some slight alterations. Certainly, as you've reported, the president-elect is not taking the train to Washington.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CUTTER: But, other than that, there have been security provisions put in place that maybe weren't as tight on January 5th. But as you know, Jim, you've covered inaugurals before, inaugurals are always high security events.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CUTTER: So the changes that have been put in place are, you know, technical things that the Secret Service thought were important, but from a viewer standpoint, you'll see, you know, the strength of the democracy, the shift -- the demonstration of people coming together to celebrate the strength of this democracy.

SCIUTTO: You served in the Obama administration. You were there as the Obamas welcomed the Trumps after a divisive election, but they welcomed them. They acknowledged the loss.

I want to play a clip of what President Trump said at his own inauguration four years ago and just get your reaction to something in particular he said on that day.

Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Every four years we gather on these steps to carry out the orderly and peaceful transfer of power. And we are grateful to President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama for their gracious aid throughout this transition. They have been magnificent. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Of course, president -- neither Trump nor Melania, the first lady, returned that favor. Your reaction?

CUTTER: You know, we're not spending too much time thinking about it, to be honest. When I said that a newly inaugurated President Biden will talk about turning the page, it's precisely that. You know, it's really sad for the country that a sitting president and first lady wouldn't welcome a -- the next president to come in line, as is tradition.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CUTTER: This hasn't happened in 150-plus years. It's a sad state for the country, really, and that's precisely what we need to turn the page on.

SCIUTTO: You managed the Democratic Convention this summer, in the midst of other difficult circumstances. Of course, the pandemic. You couldn't gather everyone in the same room, so you had this kind of remarkable trip around the country which really touched a lot of people in many ways. I don't want you to reveal secrets about tomorrow because I know some of this is about the element of surprise, but can you give folks just an example, perhaps, of what they can look forward to tomorrow that's going to send that message and make them feel positive about this moment as opposed to nervous?

CUTTER: Well, I -- after the president's sworn in, he visits Arlington National Cemetery, marches in the military procession, the military escort to the White House.

[09:40:02]

We'll kick off what we're calling the Parade for America, which is an inaugural parade but done virtually all over America. And you'll see, you know, people who are proud of their heritage, people who are proud of their communities, lifting up local heroes who have gone above and beyond in this pandemic.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CUTTER: And, you know, lots of surprises in store, but watch the Parade for America and you'll feel good about this country.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CUTTER: You'll feel good and proud about the strength of our democracy, the strength of our spirit and the perseverance and strength of the American people.

SCIUTTO: Well, there's enormous appetite for that. We'll be looking forward to watching.

CUTTER: Yes, there is.

SCIUTTO: Stephanie Cutter, we know you've got a lot on your plate.

CUTTER: And it will be a fun watch.

SCIUTTO: All right. Well, we wish you the best of luck tomorrow.

CUTTER: Thank you so much, Jim.

BERMAN: Be sure to join CNN's coverage of the inauguration of President Joe Biden, special all-day live coverage starts tomorrow on CNN. Can't miss it.

We'll be right back.

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[09:45:45]

SCIUTTO: Well, President Trump will leave Washington for Palm Beach, Florida, hours before President-elect Biden takes the oath of office tomorrow. The first president since Andrew Johnson not to attend his successor's inauguration.

HARLOW: Wow. And that is making the critically important handoff of the so-called nuclear football more complicated.

Our Barbara Starr at the Pentagon has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The most important briefcase in the world carried by the military and never far from the president of the United States. It's often called the nuclear football.

The case holds the highly classified equipment and authorities needed for a president to order the military to launch a nuclear weapon.

On this Inauguration Day, with President Trump planning to depart Washington early and not attend the swearing in of Joe Biden, there will be two nuclear footballs and the challenge of ensuring it goes smoothly. One for Joe Biden in Washington, D.C., the minute he becomes president. One that will accompany President Trump to Florida, until he no longer has power and his nuclear authorities are deactivated.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi questioned whether Trump should still have the authority to launch a war.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Well, I have sought information from those who are in a position to know that there are protections against this dangerous president initiating any military hostilities or something worse than that.

STARR: Pelosi recently said she spoke to General Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, about the safeguards in place for ordering a nuclear strike. Senior military officials say, while the president has sole authority to launch nuclear weapons, he cannot do it alone.

If an adversary were to launch a missile at the U.S., the president would immediately be on a classified communication network, receiving minute by minute intelligence and recommendations on how to proceed.

There are safeguards against illegal attack orders, whether it's nuclear or conventional. To be legal, orders must have a legitimate target, a clear military objective and use proportional force. The general who recently commanded strategic weapons and is now number two at the Pentagon is adamant the military will not follow illegal orders from any president.

GEN. JOHN HYTEN, COMMANDER, U.S. STRATEGIC COMMAND: If it's illegal, guess what's going to happen --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You say no.

HYTEN: I'm going to say, Mr. President, that's illegal. And guess what he's going to do? He's going to say, what would be legal? And we'll come up with options of a mix of capabilities to respond to whatever the situation is. And that's the way it works. It's not that complicated.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: But, in the event some president some day was to persist with illegal orders, then the military, of course, would have no option but to resign. U.S. military commanders, for them, it is, of course, illegal to follow illegal orders.

Jim and Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Remarkable even to be discussing that possibility, but it's necessary.

Barbara Starr, thanks very much.

President Trump, in one of his final acts, is attempting to lift key coronavirus-related travel restrictions, even as the pandemic gets worse. Why the incoming Biden administration says that will not happen.

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[09:53:37]

HARLOW: Welcome back.

There is new evidence this morning that shows that that new, more contagious COVID variant was already circulating around the United States before it was even discovered in the U.K.

SCIUTTO: Yes, that research coming from the University of Arizona as state officials warn that the demand for COVID-19 vaccine is far outpacing the number of doses available.

Let's speak to CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen.

Elizabeth, first on this variant, to be clear here, more transmissible but not more deadly?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. That's what we know so far, Jim. More transmissible, we don't know. It does not seem to be more deadly. It does not seem, from what we know so far, to evade the vaccine. So one bad point and two potentially good points.

So at the University of Arizona researcher Mike Warbi (ph), he started looking back to see what cases there were of this variant first spotted in the U.K. He wanted to see what it was like in the U.S. So let's take a look at what he found.

So this variant was identified in the U.K. in mid-December. It was then detected in the U.S. after that in December 29th. But what Dr. Warbi thinks is that it may have been in the U.S. five to six weeks before it was actually spotted in the U.K.

So then the question is, well, why did they find it first in the U.K. if indeed it -- if it might have been in the U.S. first? The answer is, we're just not very good at looking for variants in this country.

[09:55:03]

Think about it as if you were worried that a mouse had entering your house. In the U.K. they look for that mouse in the living room, in the dining room, in the kitchen, in the bathroom, in the cupboards, under the table. In the U.S. we look for it, well, just in the living room. And so it's not surprising that it was found first in the U.K. The U.K. scientists then said, wow, we found a mouse, here's what it looks like, here's how we found it and it then, in the U.S. now, 120 cases in 20 states. That's what's been found so far. In fact, it may be, it probably is, much more widespread.

Jim. Poppy.

HARLOW: Oh, that's frustrating.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: But clearly we hopefully learned a lesson from that.

Elizabeth, on the vaccine administration and the distribution, why is there a lag in the number of people getting them?

COHEN: Right. This continues. This is still unfortunately the same story. Some states are better at this than other states. So there's two things going on. Some states are saying, look, we're just running out of doses. For other states there are doses sitting there but they just haven't coordinated the clinics in order to make this happen.

So if other countries, for example, the U.K. actually is an example, they have a centralized national health system so it's much easier to get this vaccine out. In the U.S. it's a much more chaotic, decentralized system. It makes this vaccine administration much tougher.

HARLOW: OK. Elizabeth, thank you for the reporting and explaining all of that.

COHEN: Thanks.

HARLOW: In just minutes, really critical confirmation hearings begin for three of President-elect Joe Biden's cabinet nominees. You'll see them here.

Stay with us.

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