Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Army Reservist, Ex-FDNY among Latest Charged in Capitol Riot; Trump Ignores Traditional Transfer of Power Rituals; Two National Guard Members Removed from Inauguration Duty. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired January 19, 2021 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:30:06]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Right now, more than 90 people are facing federal charges in connection with the deadly insurrection on the U.S. Capitol. Among the latest charge are a former New York City firefighter and an Army reservist with secret level security clearance. That is just two.

CNN's Josh Campbell, he's been tracking all of this and he is joining me now. And, Josh, tell us more about these people just charged and the concerns around law enforcement taking part in the attack.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate. It is clear the FBI is continuing their full-court press in trying to identify those who took part of that January 6th Capitol siege. Two people that we're now learning about have been charged, include one person named Thomas Fee. This is a 22-year veteran of the New York City Fire Department. He is from Freeport, New York.

Now, his charges include violent entry and disorderly conduct. Now, in the criminal complaint, prosecutors alleged that he sent a video and text to someone saying that he was at the, quote, tip of the spear of this attack.

And one other person we're learning about is Timothy Hale-Cusanelli. This is a U.S. Army reservist holding a security clearance and a long record of posting extremist views online, according to prosecutors. And he was described to authorities by an informant as an avowed white supremacist, a Nazi sympathizer.

This is concerning because so many of these try to play dress-up in military gear, but this is someone who is actually a U.S. Army reservist, which obviously causes quite a concern for law enforcement about bringing that kind of experience to bear on an attack like we saw.

Finally, an update on the woman that we had told you about yesterday and the days prior, this Riley Williams who was seen on video allegedly directing people around the Capitol. She was also accused by an informant for the federal authorities of stealing a laptop and then possibly trying to transfer that to the Russians for money. No indication yet that that was actually -- there is evidence to back that up. But she has been taken into custody, so an update there.

And one thing is clear, Kate, as you look through these criminal charges, one thing that stands out for me looking at this through an investigative lens is just how many investigative tools authorities are using, we're talking about informants, we're talking about scouring digital media, and in one case, authorities were pulling surveillance video from a bridge near where one of these subjects lived to determine when he left and when he came back from the Capitol. So a host of resources, a host of techniques, they continue to find and charge these people with that insurrection that we saw on January 6th, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Josh, thanks so much for the reporting.

Joining me now for more on this is Brian Levin, he's a former police officer, now the director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism. Thanks for coming in.

It is striking how many people in positions of trust that are now being investigated and charged for taking part in the riot, an Army reservist, police officers current and former, a person with secret level security clearance. You've been tracking and studying this for quite some time. Does this surprise you?

BRIAN LEVIN, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF HATE AND EXTREMISM: No. And it doesn't surprise those of us who are in this field. Our friend, Eric Ward, who had a beautiful essay recently, Mike German at the Brennan Center, even the Brookings Institution, one of the things that we know with regard to law enforcement is leadership, operations and culture are all critical components.

But here is the problem. The fish rots from the head. And what we had during this administration, listen to this, listen to this, we have had now black people are 3.5 times more likely to be killed by police if they attack no one and had no weaponry. So just in the data alone -- that is from the Brookings Institution. Just from the data alone, we know there are issues.

[11:35:00]

But now on top of that, we've had something supercharged and our research has shown this, when you have during the last administration a near cratering of police supervisory interventions by the Justice Department. I think it went from around two dozen last administration to one during this one. When you populate the highest levels of levels government, for instance, like the DHS, someone like Chad Wolf, who refused to testify before Congress on the day that I did, they did not issue documents, they did not show up and they did not give data at a time when the administration was trying to underplay the threat from white supremacists.

What if we underplayed the threat from Daesh and we knew that there was some -- and, again, we're talking about a relatively small number of folks, but here is the issue. When we have polls showing millions of people who affiliate with QAnon and we have, for instance, the head of the Chicago police union making virulently anti-Muslim statements, when we had a normalization, a drop in hate crime prosecutions of 38.5 percent and no appointments of black federal appellate judges, you talk about systemic racism, it not only affects certainly law enforcements, which has its own history and issues.

And I'll tweet at Croft Levin after these studies and facts because we don't have time right now, but the bottom line is we have an administration that eviscerated from training to operations, to all of this stuff and sent a message out. And now we have police from coast to coast, here in California all the way out to the east coast and other public servants who have been involved in this because there has been an elastic reservoir of grievance that the president and other political operative along with certain television personalities and the internet created an ecosystem and that is where we draw the police from, from the society and they try to -- yes.

BOLDUAN: So one thing, calling it out and putting a spotlight on it is one part -- one step towards stopping it and fixing it. But if we're being honest, it's like an extremism hidden in plain sight is what you're describing. And this isn't going away at noon tomorrow when Joe Biden come news office. Where is it going to go?

LEVIN: We're going to see more of this, unfortunately, and here is why. And thank you so much for that question. We have an insurgency that is going on that now is part of the social political landscape. It is big. So when you have an increase in 10 percent of the number of Americans saying whites are under attack and we call many of these people who have either cultural or ideological leanings that are intertwined with those who purport to support police but are, in fact, insurrectionists, some of them racial, some are conspiratorial. What they end up doing is going on social media and they are recruiting police.

And this is an issue, and one thing that we saw, and I testified the before Congress about this, spoke to the big alphabet agencies, they said, even under Trump, we need a whole of government approach with regard to the most prominent though not exclusive threat facing the United States, that is white supremacy and far right militancy, which now is going to be more leaner and meaner and underground and we have to make sure that the police are not further targeted and take these measures with regard to leadership, operations and culture because going forward after this big transition event, we are now going to have a rather splintered set under an umbrella of ideology insurrectionist, some Second Amendment, some related to COVID, but they are going to try to ensconce themselves with support of police and law and order.

BOLDUAN: Brian Levin, thank you very much.

LEVIN: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, President Trump, he will leave the White House in much the same way that he entered, torching presidential norms and traditions. What about the letter that so many past presidents leave for their successors? Any chance Donald Trump will manage that?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:40:00]

BOLDUAN: President Trump has spent four years shunning presidential traditions, busting through presidential norms and throwing out presidential values. So it is sadly fitting that on his way out of the door, Trump is staying true to form from the big gesture down to the smallest traditions. He'll be the first president in 150 years to boycott his successor's inauguration.

He's also refused to welcome his successor to the White House. The first lady has refused to invite the incoming first lady to the White House, all symbols of something that quintessentially and proudly American symbols of the peaceful transfer of power from one leader to the next. Even down to one of my favorite traditions, the personal letter that outgoing presidents leave for the incoming.

Donald Trump reveled in the fact that Barack Obama left him a letter in the trapdoor of the resolute desk. He often liked to show it to visitors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: This is the letter given to me by President Obama. So well written, so thoughtful, so thoughtful. And in the drawer, put here in the drawer, which is a custom but I doubt too many of them were written in this manner.

It took time to do it and I appreciated it and I called him and thanked him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: In Obama's letter that he wrote to Donald Trump, he wrote this in part, regardless of the push and pull of daily politics, it is up to us to leave those instruments of our democracy at least as strong as we found them.

Does anyone think Donald Trump is leaving office doing that? Sparking a violent insurrection on the Capitol, 400,000 people will have died from coronavirus by the end of the day, deaths on his watch. So maybe it is no surprise then that Trump at least so far has not written a letter to leave behind for Joe Biden. His advisers have encouraged him to consider upholding the tradition but, quite frankly, what sage piece of advice would Donald Trump have to offer Joe Biden?

[11:45:04]

Joining me now is CNN's Kate Bennett and Jeffrey Engel, the director of SMU Center for Presidential History.

Jeffrey, if I could begin with you, what does it mean if Donald Trump, down to the small gesture that I'm talking about, doesn't leave a letter for Joe Biden?

JEFFREY ENGEL, CO-AUTHOR, IMPEACHMENT, AN AMERICAN HISTORY: I think it represents exactly what you were just saying, that this is a president who is not interested in the broader institution of democracy. He's not interested in the peaceful transfer of power, which is not just a phrase. It is a basic representation of what we believe as Americans, that the person who holds the office of the presidency doesn't own it. They just hold it for the next person. They keep it warm, if you will.

So the presidential letter is a good example of just another way in which President Trump, frankly, I think, isn't showing the maturity that he needs to as he leaves office, in which he hand it off properly to his successor.

BOLDUAN: Kate, and it is so much more than the letter. Can you lay out just how President Trump is breaking with every tradition and norm when it comes to the inauguration of his successor?

KATE BENNETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, first of all he is leaving town. I mean, he's splitting early tomorrow morning. And that -- of course, we're used to seeing the arrival of the incoming president and first lady up on the north portico steps and the outgoing president coming out and greets them and they ride together up to Capitol hill for the inauguration festivities. None of that is happening.

Even if the most contentious elections, you know, there was still that moment of transfer of power so that the country felt, even if it was sort of a photo op, the country at least felt that this was going to be part of the ongoing democracy that this country handles. The Trumps are leaving town, they have not invited the Bidens. The first lady has not invited Jill Biden over to the east wing and likewise obviously the president hasn't invited Joe Biden. So, certainly, tomorrow will look different in that sense from what Americans have really been used to.

BOLDUAN: And I remember thinking seeing Barack Obama and Michelle Obama standing at the White House and welcoming the Trumps there. It is really amazing even -- when you're talking about the most contentious of times, Jeffrey, with two people who pushed the Birther conspiracy, the Obamas were still going to welcome to the White House because that is what you do.

These traditions are about the peaceful transfer of power. For the first time in this country, we did not see a peaceful transfer of power and Joe Biden is taking over a country that is so divided. What does history tell you about how Joe Biden can go about overcoming this?

ENGEL: Well, actually, history on both points, points me to the 1933 inauguration both on the idea that there is a peaceful transfer of power between people who don't like each other and that the way crisis could conform to an opportunity. In 1933, Franklin Roosevelt took over from Herbert Hoover. The two men couldn't stand each other. They wouldn't talk to each other in the car ride over to the Capitol. Though it was so cold they shared a blanket.

So the idea that the image was what matters, that the American people need to see the two of them with the maturity to sit together, to transfer power peacefully even if they didn't like each other personally.

But Roosevelt took up office obviously during an extraordinary time of crisis, during the great depression, when people were questioning the viability of American democracy, I think, just as they are to you. I think Joe Biden has an opportunity because of the widespread nature of the discontent because of COVID, because of the economic collapse, because of the political division in our country, so really just be a fountain of stability, to talk about American values and the way presidents always have before Donald Trump is something that brings us together.

I think Americans want to hear that and more importantly I think it will touch a nerve with them because they heard it all of their lives. And now hearing it again, it will have a particular resonance and meaning.

BOLDUAN: Jeffrey, thank you. Kate, thanks, great to see you.

Coming up for us, CNN has just confirmed that two members of the National Guard have been removed from the mission to help secure the inauguration after officials find ties to extremist groups. Breaking details are coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:50:00]

BOLDUAN: We have some more breaking news. CNN has just confirmed two members of the National Guard have been removed from their mission to help secure the inauguration.

Let me bring in CNN's Barbara Starr. She has this new reporting. Barbara, what are you learning?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning to you, Kate. Disturbing news, in fact, a defense official confirming a short time ago to CNN that two Army National Guard troops have been removed from their duties at the inauguration as part of helping to secure Washington, D.C. and the inauguration ceremonies.

Now, details are very sketchy, and we want to, first of all, credit our friends at the Associated Press for first reporting this, but there is a lot we do not know. 2 out of 25,000 troops, that's miniscule, yes, but the concern is going to be what these people were up to. We don't know, for example, what caught officials' attention

They're vetting all 25,000. They're going through social media. They're looking for any indication of ties to domestic extremism. What did they find with these people? Was it something perhaps as simple as liking a tweet, signing onto something on social media, or was there something else going on here? We do not know that right now.

This is a real challenge for the U.S. military.

[11:55:00]

They want to vet everyone for any sign of ties to domestic extremism, but it's very hard to do unless they basically have an appearance on social media or talk to their friends or verbalize it, very tough to find these people.

So right now two have been removed, and we are still looking for details on exactly why that is. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Why that is. Barbara, thank you so much for bringing us that reporting and credit to the Associated Press for breaking that news. 25,000 National Guard troops though are in the Capitol right now as it is a fortress. Thank you, Barbara, so much.

Coming up, still a divided nation, expected pardons and the Capitol in lockdown, much more in the final 24 hours of Donald Trump's presidency.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:00]