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Biden to Announce COVID-19 Response Plan Today; Medical Studies Find COVID-19 Mutation May Alter Vaccine Efficacy; Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) Issues Contradicting Statements Following Riots. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired January 21, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:58]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: It is the top of the hour, I am Brianna Keilar.

And any moment now, Joe Biden will speak about his coronavirus response plan, which he released today, his first full day as the 46th president.

And he's speaking as he and his COVID team get hit with a major reality check when it comes to vaccinations. Sources tell CNN President Biden is inheriting a, quote, "non-existent" vaccination distribution plan from the Trump administration, and that the Biden team will need to start from square one.

In fact, the White House COVID Coordinator Jeff Zients adds this. He said, quote, "What we're inheriting from the Trump administration... what we're inheriting is so much worse than we could have imagined."

A member of the Biden Coronavirus Advisory Board explains that the team only knew the details available to the public, which included Operation Warp Speed briefings and details on distribution.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ATUL GAWANDE, MEMBER, BIDEN'S COVID ADVISORY BOARD: What we knew in the transition advisory board was that we were not getting any information that was not public information already, and so it was a complete mystery: Was there going to be a binder describing the national strategy and what the status is of production, of distribution and where things were?

And the team, on arrival, the president and his team, found that there was not those pieces there, and no coordinated national effort. It's been all breakthrough and no follow-through.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: I want to bring in CNN White House correspondent M.J. Lee and CNN chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins with us. M.J., is saying that the Trump administration essentially didn't have

a plan a way for the Biden team to manage expectations here? Because that would be not unusual, when we're talking about the politics of this for sure.

M.J. LEE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No, you're absolutely right. So much of this is about setting expectations, and the Biden White House, sort of in the earliest days, trying to lay down some early markers on where they think they are starting in this process.

What sources told us is that they essentially felt like there was no comprehensive federal vaccine distribution plan under former President Trump, and that they would have to start from square one once they got into the White House.

I mean, take a look at what Jeff Zients, the White House COVID coordinator, told reporters yesterday. He said, "For almost a year now, Americans could not look to the federal government for any strategy, let alone a comprehensive approach to respond to COVID. And we've seen the tragic costs of that failure."

I mean, that language is pretty reflective of what we actually heard from Biden himself during the transition. He said that the vaccine rollout process had been absolutely dismal, he said that the Trump administration had been way too slow in getting these vaccine shots administered. And it is true that the Trump administration did not meet their goal that they had set for themselves.

But, Brianna, this is what is important. The Biden White House is now in the White House, they are the government now and they say that they have a federal plan. They're rolling out this national strategy today.

So what we are on the lookout for in the coming days and weeks is, how exactly are they going to execute their plan, what is their plan and does it actually look different from whatever it was that the Trump administration was trying to do. And importantly, are they going to be able to meet their goal of 100 million vaccine shots administered in the first 100 days that he is in office.

KEILAR: Yes. I mean, they're setting their baseline, and they're setting it low, for whatever the reason is.

Kaitlan, I wonder, when the president speaks here, what are you expecting that he is going to say and what -- I mean, really, this -- what is talking about today may be the most important thing that he does in his entire presidency.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Certainly, and it's going to be one of the things that consumes basically at least his entire first year while he's in office.

And we should make sure to stop and note that it's just -- it is notable that he's even addressing coronavirus, because for so long in the Trump administration, especially at the end of his two months, his last two months in office, after he'd already lost that election, we did not really hear from the president on what the vaccine distribution plan was that much. He made a few remarks here and there, but it wasn't this kind of daily onslaught from the administration, talking about what was going on.

[14:05:05]

So that is notable in and of itself, that Biden is going to come out, he's going to lay out this plan, this national strategy, they say. I do expect it's going to be much more federal government-focused than state-controlled, which is what we saw with the vaccine distribution plan from the last administration.

So that will be really the question going forward, and also how he does things like wield the Defense Production Act, where you can use the federal government, the powers of the federal government, to compel production for needed supplies that we're hearing from all over the country are desperately needed to ramp that up.

And so I do think that's the question, of what they're going to do to change that framework, how they're going to build from that and what it's really going to look like in these next, you know, right off the bat, since they were starting today.

They knew this problem was coming, given we've seen how the vaccine distribution has gone for that last month or so in that it did not meet the expectations that Trump officials had laid out. So the question is, now, what do the Biden officials do and how quickly are they going to move.

KEILAR: Yes, big challenge and it is now theirs. Kaitlan Collins, M.J. Lee, thank you so much to both of you.

Just in to CNN, the results of two new medical studies suggest existing COVID vaccines may not be as effective against the South African variant of the disease, which was discovered in October. Let's talk about this now with CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen.

Elizabeth, this is the fear that I have heard just from so many people, when they are awaiting the vaccine, especially when it's going to be a while before they get it. What if the variants change such that the vaccine isn't actually -- doesn't protect them the way it should?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, Brianna, that's the concern. And I want to say, before I explain these studies, these are studies done in labs, these are early studies. They don't answer the important question that you're posing, Brianna, they don't tell us whether the vaccine will work.

What it tells us is that boy, we need to do more studies because there are some red flags here. That's the term I heard over and over again, from researchers around the world: "red flags."

What these two studies did, in a nutshell, is they took this variant that was found in South Africa, and they looked at antibodies of people who had recovered -- not from that variant, but who had recovered months and months ago from COVID. You would think you would fight off the variant. But basically, it had a lot of challenges. Those antibodies did not do a great job of fighting off the variant.

And so there are concerns, well, jeez, the antibodies that are made -- the vaccine would make your body make, they might be kind of similar. Is the vaccine going to have the same experience? We don't know. Vaccines may make even better antibodies and it won't be a problem. There's also a third study that was much more optimistic, but it was done in a way that makes some people wonder about the results.

I know this is all very scientific and very confusing, but the bottom line here is now two studies in two days from scientists in South African, drawing some red flags, concern that this variant from South Africa might be able to outwit antibodies produced by prior infection or by the vaccine. We have to see if that's true. It may decrease the efficacy of the vaccine a bit, but hopefully not by too much.

Let's take a look at where this South African variant is. It has not been spotted in the U.S., but it has been spotted in 18 countries. The list, as you can see here, is long and so I won't read them all. But you can see there that this variant has been spotted in parts of Europe and Asia and Africa.

TEXT: Countries with COVID Variant First Discovered in S. Africa: Australia; United Kingdom; Belgium; France; Denmark; Japan; Germany; Ireland; New Zealand; Finland; Norway; South Korea; Spain; Sweden; Botswana; Netherlands; South Africa; Switzerland

COHEN: As I said, hasn't been spotted in the U.S., but that may be because the surveillance system in the U.S. is not very good -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes. That's what you're -- you know, as you mentioned there, the U.S. hasn't been leading the world when it comes to seeking out and identifying these mutations. How bad is the U.S. doing at that?

COHEN: You know, let's take a look at this because this data is very -- it's all well documented, and so we can actually take a look.

When we look at the number of sequences that are being done -- genomic sequences, these are genetic sequences that tell us where there are mutations and where there aren't. You want to do a lot of these sequences.

And what we're finding is that the U.S. has not done so great with that. What we see is that Iceland is number one at this, Australia is number two; the U.S. is in 33rd place. We are behind places like Senegal, Sierra Leone, Benin, places that have far fewer resources than the U.S. does are doing a better job.

KEILAR: All right, Elizabeth, great to see you, thank you so much. Elizabeth Cohen.

let's talk now with Dr. Richina Bicette, the medical director at Baylor College of Medicine. And I want to ask you about these studies. But first, I want to ask you, I mean, why is this country, which has such good medicine and you know, so many scientists who are so gifted in their fields, why are they not tracking these viruses? Why are we doing so poorly?

RICHINA BICETTE, MEDICAL DIRECTOR AND ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: That's a very complicated answer, Brianna. And I think it has to do with what you alluded to just a few minutes ago, and the fact that there really has been no coordinated federal response in terms of handling this pandemic.

[14:10:03]

Not only is making that announcement a form of potential damage control or managing expectations by President Biden and his administration, but it's also the truth. And the fact lies in the numbers. We need to do a better job -- the federal government needs to do a better job of coordinating their efforts to manage this pandemic nationally instead of letting the states handle it locally.

KEILAR: So it sounds like the U.S. does have this ability, it just -- it's a leadership issue.

So back to these studies looking at new variants and the possibility that vaccines may not be as effective against them. Should we be concerned about the efficacy of the vaccines now?

BICETTE: I'm not sure that we should be concerned just yet. There absolutely is nothing that we can do about this virus mutating and new variants popping up. That's the nature of viruses: The more it spreads, the more opportunities that it has to replicate and to mutate. So we're not going to prevent that.

What we do know and what has been looked at in these very, very small studies thus far is that the neutralizing antibodies that are produced may be less effective.

The thing is, though, that vaccines produce lots more antibodies other than just the neutralizing antibodies, so we're hopeful that all of the different parts of the immune response can come together and, combined, can still prevent severe illness.

KEILAR: And we heard today, Doctor, that -- we heard from Dr. Fauci that Johnson and Johnson is now within a week or two from submitting their vaccine for approval, which is like -- I think that's music to all of our ears. And this one's expected to be a one-dose vaccine. How could that impact our supply chain here in the U.S. that we are struggling with so mightily?

BICETTE: Well, I definitely think it will help the supply chain. Johnson and Johnson themselves have come out and said that once they are granted approval, they're optimistic that they can deliver one billion doses of vaccine before the end of the year.

Now, the significance with Johnson and Johnson being a one-shot vaccine is that the number of doses that are delivered are the number of people that can become vaccinated, versus Pfizer and Moderna, you have to divide their doses by two because it requires two shots.

That being said, though, Brianna, I'm not sure if the supply chain is the big issue for us here in the United States. We've had 36 million doses of vaccine delivered across the U.S., but only 16 million of those have actually been given to people. So what we need more help with, aside from getting more doses of vaccine, is we need help actually administering the doses that we do have.

KEILAR: Yes. Yes, we do. Dr. Bicette, always great to see you. Thanks for being with us.

BICETTE: Thank you for having me, Brianna, good to see you.

KEILAR: As we are waiting now to hear from President Biden about his COVID response, we're going to take you to Capitol Hill, where House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy just completely contradicted himself on whether President Trump provoked the Capitol riots.

[14:13:07]

Plus, new evidence from court documents shows just how brutal the attacks on police were on January 6th.

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KEILAR: House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy is trying to have it both ways today, and really kind of at the same time. First, he claimed that President Trump doesn't bear any responsibility for the Capitol riots, something wholly different from what he said just eight days ago. So let's listen to Kevin McCarthy, and then let's listen to Kevin McCarthy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): The president bears responsibility for Wednesday's attack on Congress by mob rioters.

I don't believe he provoked, if you listen to what he said at the rally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And also this. After weeks of supporting conservative lawmakers' efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election, McCarthy is now trying to avoid taking any blame for that too. Here is his exchange earlier today with my colleague Manu Raju.

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MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, after the rioters came into the Capitol on January 6th, you voted to overturn the results in Pennsylvania and Arizona. You also signed onto that Texas lawsuit to invalidate the election. You waited until a couple weeks ago to declare that Joe Biden won the election.

Given the violence that we saw, do you regret the role you played in any way, sowing doubt about the election?

MCCARTHY: Look, I denounce any violence. Denounce it that day, denounce it now, I denounce it in the summer, I denounce it -- what happened last night in Portland and Seattle as well. I'm very consistent.

What I voted on wasn't to overturn an election, because it would not overturn it. What I signed to, amicus (ph) was the exact same question that you did, a constitutional question about did a legislature have the right -- or did a legislature actually move through to make any changes.

This is the same thing that has happened in the last three presidential elections, it's the same thing that Nancy Pelosi said on the floor when she said this is democracy, we should debate it. It's different than when Jim Clyburn voted to overturn Ohio, which (ph) you (ph) would say, because that would change the outcome of the presidential election.

So let's be very clear on what we did. If mine was based upon policy and principle, yes, I would stay the course. I've always denounced whatever individuals did here, what they did in the summer, what they did last night. That's un-American, that's undemocratic, and anybody involved with that should be prosecuted. I've been very, very, clear about that from day one.

So thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju is with us now.

I mean, Manu, he says one thing and then he turns around and he contradicts himself. But then he turns around and he contradicts himself contradicting himself, which is enough to make one's head spin like it's "The Exorcist." So you explain to us what we are witnessing here, translate this for us.

[14:20:07]

RAJU: Well, it's really hard to explain because he's in a spot in the aftermath of this deadly riot that occurred on Capitol Hill. He does not want to take any responsibility himself, and he also wants to stand by where most of his Republican conference is right now, in supporting Donald Trump and still backing the decision that a majority of them made after the deadly riot, they voted to overturn the results in both Arizona and Pennsylvania, along with Kevin McCarthy, along with the number two, Steve Scalise.

So McCarthy is in a spot because he does not want to break from his conference, and he also doesn't want to take any responsibility for his actions.

he also tried to claim that this was similar to what happened in the past three elections. That is simply not the case. In those elections, the Democratic losing candidates in 2016, 2004, after the 2000 elections, they all conceded. There was not an effort by the losing presidential candidate to sow doubt, to contend that the election was stolen, that it was rigged, it was filled with lies.

I asked McCarthy for weeks whether or not he would push back on the president, whether or not he considered Joe Biden the victor. Even after the December 14th Electoral College vote to make Joe Biden's win official, even then, McCarthy would not push back at that time. In fact, privately, gave a green light to those conservatives who tried to object on the House floor and tried to overturn the electoral results.

So he is, at this moment, trying to move on but his role there is pretty clear when you look at the past, his efforts to at least allow his conference to move forward, try to overturn the elections and give those Trump supporters some hope that that could actually occur, and we saw what happened here January 6th, the result.

KEILAR: Yes. I mean, he's worked himself into a rhetorical pretzel. And I will say, Manu, that is very obvious, based on the questions and answers that you have had in exchange with him, so thank you so much for doing that.

I want to ask you, though, about Nancy Pelosi because she was talking about holding people accountable, even if that means her own colleagues. So let's listen.

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REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): There is no question that there were members in this body who gave aid and comfort to those with the idea that they were embracing a lie, a lie perpetrated by the president of the United States, that the election did not have legitimacy.

In that regard, I'm very pleased that we will have an after-action review, that we'll review many aspects of what happened. If people did aid and abet, there will be more than just comments from their colleagues here, there will be prosecution, if they aided and abetted an insurrection in which people died.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Manu, where do these investigations stand?

RAJU: Well, they're happening right now. And what Pelosi made clear is that she doesn't have evidence yet that there was inside information to give to these insurrectionists that later knew where some of the key offices were on Capitol Hill that day. She said she didn't know for sure.

Same (ph) with Kevin McCarthy, also said that anyone who did help these insurrectionists should be prosecuted, but he also said there was no evidence of that yet.

So there are probes ongoing about the exact role of any members of Congress, but also, Brianna, what she's also saying that there are some members who aided and gave comfort to these rioters.

What she's likely referring to there are those members who went to that rally, spoke at that rally, people like Mo Brooks who urged these rioters, these rally-goers at the time that later became rioters to essentially -- in his words -- "kick some ass" on Capitol Hill.

What will happen to those members? Will they be censured, will they be stripped from their committee assignments -- that's a Republican conference decision -- those are key questions, going forward. But the investigation still continues -- Brianna.

KEILAR: I know when there's answers you will get them to that, Manu, thank you so much.

Manu Raju, live on Capitol Hill.

Let's bring in our chief political correspondent Dana Bash.

I wonder first, Dana, you've covered Leader McCarthy extensively. I just want to get your reaction to him trying to turn the tables on Democrats, and pointing to Democrats when he was such a big part of perpetuating the big lie for weeks and weeks.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: What you're seeing is a leader who is trying to figure out where his caucus is, where the party is. And you know, during the Trump years, it was quite easy, it was with Donald Trump. And what we saw with his press conference today is it still is with Donald Trump, from his perspective.

And when I say that, I'm saying it based on watching him versus Mitch McConnel. And the reaction and the criticism that Mitch McConnell has been getting from fellow Republicans, and some things that I've been hearing just in texting, you know, top Republicans about the dynamics going on.

[14:25:13]

Mitch McConnell, as you mentioned earlier, calling out in no uncertain terms the mob that was incited by President Trump. You know, that is something that he clearly believes, that he believes correct and that it is the thing that you need to say for history -- never mind how he will or won't vote on impeachment.

But Kevin McCarthy is clearly seeing the reaction to that, and is deciding, despite the fact that on the day that they voted and he spoke out, he spoke out and said, you know, I'm against violence. That he's trying to feel out his caucus, and it is still very, very much the Trump caucus.

KEILAR: Biden, Dana, had invited leaders from both parties to the White House tomorrow. I wonder -- you know, I had the distinct honor of covering Congress with you in the early years of the Obama administration.

And at that time, we saw these overtures, which -- I mean, it was admirable to see, especially in the Senate, that Republicans and Democrats might work together. But in the end, nothing came of this and the president's big agenda item, you know, was really his party that pushed it through.

So I wonder, as we hear these overtures about unity and bipartisanship, what is that really going to look like in the Biden administration?

BASH: We don't know yet, because it does take two to tango. and, you know, when we were covering the early days of the Obama administration, they had the luxury of having really big Democratic majorities in the House and especially the Senate, where the filibuster was an issue.

They were more concerned, at that time, with making sure that moderate Democrats were in the fold as opposed to, you know, reaching across the aisle. Even though sometimes, some moderate Republicans did join them in some issues.

But now, it's totally different. There is a very slim majority in the House, the Senate could not be any tighter -- it is 50-50, and the vice president, Kamala Harris, is going to probably be spending a lot of time in her not-so-old stomping grounds, in the Senate, having to deal with that as a tie-breaking vote and maybe with negotiations. So by necessity, it has to be more than rhetorical or else Joe Biden will get nothing done.

And we don't know because of the conversation we were just having, about whose party is it and the positioning and the trying to figure out how to play this that is going on as we speak within the Republican Party, particularly the leadership of the Republican Party. We don't know how that's going to shake out.

And so one of the things that I'm interested in, after they do what is really necessary for this country, which is stimulus for COVID and the economy, on other big things, whether or not they, the Biden administration, maybe even Republican leaders choose some easy things.

I know that I've talked to members of Congress on the Republican side in particular who, they're urging the Biden administration to do that, to show we can do some things, the low-hanging fruit, as they like to say in Congress. We'll see if that happens.

KEILAR: All right, we will. And Dana Bash, you look surprisingly awake. I'm do not know how you -- you've been on my TV forever, so --

BASH: We have a very good make-up team, as you know, Brianna.

KEILAR: I know, it's all in the undereye concealer. But it's great to see you for such a long couple of days, Dana --

BASH: Thanks, Bri.

KEILAR: -- thank you so much.

[14:28:48] Next, what happens the day after your conspiracy theory falls apart? We're going to dig into how QAnon supporters reacted to what they did not think what happen, President Biden being sworn in.

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