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Pelosi Says House will Wait Until Senate is Prepared Before Sending Over Impeachment Article; McConnell Proposes Delaying Trump Impeachment Trial Until February; Congressman Found Carrying Gun When About to Go on House Floor. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 22, 2021 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Friday morning to you. Quite a week. Quite a year. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Glad you're with us. I'm Poppy Harlow.

First, the health crisis, now a very severe economic crisis.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: President Biden is using his second full day in office to take on the challenges facing millions of Americans in economic need.

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He is set to sign two more executive orders today to provide more assistance to those struggling in this pandemic. Ad today here is where we stand, the death toll, 410,000 people in this country have died from COVID, but Dr. Anthony Fauci tells CNN this morning that number could have been lower if the Trump administration had been more honest about the virus.

SCIUTTO: He said straight out, lives could have been saved. Fauci untethered now from fears of repercussions for simply telling the truth. He laid out the facts on vaccines today. We have the latest on all those headlines, what it means for you.

And we're following the latest on Capitol Hill. House Democrats reportedly in discussions to hand over the Article of Impeachment against the former President Trump to the Senate. Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell, however, is pushing to move the timeline on a trial back at least a couple of weeks. He says the Senate should give former President Trump's legal team those weeks to prepare.

We're following all the angles. Let's begin at the White House. CNN's Jeremy Diamond is on the North Lawn this morning.

And, Jeremy, tell us about these executive actions, how far they extend, and what the intention is here. I mean, for instance, on the minimum wage, is that just meant to apply to the federal government or is it a first step toward something broader?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, President Biden came into office facing these twin crises brought on by the coronavirus pandemic. First of all, the health crisis and then the economic crisis. Yesterday on his first full day in office we saw him focus on that health crisis with 10 executive orders aimed at stemming the coronavirus pandemic and ramping up distribution and supply of vaccines and other critical materials.

Today we are seeing him focus executive actions on the economic crisis. The first of which is going to be on food assistance. Increasing food assistance to hungry Americans. More than 40 million Americans currently considered food insecure and so you're going to see him increase the SNAP benefits, that's the food stamps, by 15 percent to 20 percent, and then increase money to families whose children would normally get free school meals as well. That could be $100 monthly increase for a family with three children.

Then the second executive order, which is what you were talking about there, Jim, is laying the groundwork for a $15 minimum wage. This is not something that's going to happen immediately, but it is directing the government to begin the process of preparing for that. Within the first 100 days, Biden intends to actually sign an executive order that would increase the minimum wage for federal workers and federal contractors to $15 an hour.

He will also be today revoking executive orders signed by President Trump which stripped key civil service protections for federal workers. That made it easier to fire them. Biden will be rescinding those measures imposed by President Trump.

But one thing to be clear here today, and I think this is a point that President Biden will likely emphasize this afternoon as he signs these executive orders is that ultimately executive action is one thing. But what this administration is really looking for is that $1.9 trillion stimulus package. And for that, of course, he will need the help of Congress and more specifically, the help of some Republicans.

HARLOW: A number of whom have said $1.9 trillion is not going to happen. Jeremy, thanks.

So let's bring in our chief business correspondent Christine Romans on that point.

Your reaction to the executive orders and also, you know, I don't know if you have a warning for people listening but remember what happened when Congress bungled, you know, the last rescue during the Great Recession at first? It was not good.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. No, we have recent memory of not doing enough quickly, and it really held back the recovery. So that's the warning really here for Congress. Don't wait until the spring on this here. In the meantime, you have the new administration doing what it can do to move the levers of government to try to make things easier for people. And in the White House documents here this morning, Poppy and Jim, the

word equity or equality is a dozen times in there. They're trying to make sure the people who have been hurt the hardest get the help they need. That is those food benefits, really important there. Also there's some VA relief, veterans relief that's super important. And also it tells the Department of Labor, look, if somebody doesn't feel safe, if somebody is unemployed and they don't feel safe accepting a job somewhere that looks like they could get coronavirus, they should be able to get unemployment benefits.

That's been a big issue in some states. So that is paving the way to help families, especially frontline families, stay safe here. So trying to use the levers of government that they can to get some more relief there while we wait for Congress to act on a bigger package.

SCIUTTO: OK. Talking about a bigger package, certainly disagreements over that, particularly on direct payment checks. President Biden wants $1400 payments. In effect adding the $600 to the previous to get to the $2,000 figure that even some Republicans have expressed support for. What impact could that have?

ROMANS: Well, right now you're starting to hear people talk about targeted relief. You know, they don't want to necessarily be spending borrowed money to someone who doesn't need it, right? So people who are working, for example.

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Find a way to target that relief. And that's something you've heard from Senator Manchin and you've heard from moderates who said they want to target the relief better. There are some who are worried about the size. $1.9 trillion. You know, look, we need more relief. And we have the recent memory of going too slow and going too small and it held back the recovery from the financial crisis. So that is really what the worry here is, is that you're going to repeat some of those mistakes that we've had before.

But the White House this morning very clear here with some accurate numbers. Ten million jobs lost, 14 million renters are behind, 29 million adults are food insecure, and eight million children. This is a real problem for the right now. We can see when vaccines take hold, we can see a recovery in the future. But the right now there needs to be a bridge, and it's pretty critical here.

SCIUTTO: We know you're going to be on top of it. Christine, thanks very much.

Well, President Biden could meet with congressional leaders as early as today to discuss his legislative agenda, including discussions on stimulus. Standing in the way of that, however, and the start of the impeachment trial, power-sharing talks between Senate majority leader Chuck Schumer and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. They're 50-50. They still got a lot of stuff to work out.

HARLOW: They do. But the standoff could leave everything hanging in the balance. Let's go to our Capitol Hill reporter Lauren Fox. Lauren, good morning to you. It's an interesting power play attempt by

McConnell here. The question is, what are Democrats going to do? Are they really going to fight over this filibuster stuff and then not have a power-sharing agreement soon?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, there's obviously a lot going on this morning in the U.S. Senate. And this is really a test, a first test of the new relationship between Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and the now Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. The roles have been reversed, and they have a lot to work out. The first thing, of course, is whether or not and how to share this new 50-50 Senate.

Now the Senate always has an organizing resolution. It essentially sets up who is going to lead each committee, how much the budgets are, et cetera. Usually it's not controversial. But what we have here, essentially, is the minority leader, Mitch McConnell, trying to insist that he gets in writing a promise that Democrats aren't going to blow up the filibuster.

Now, look, Democrats don't have the votes to blow up the filibuster right now. There are plenty of moderate Democrats who have made it clear that they don't think that that is the right move for legislation. However, you don't have a majority leader who wants to put that in writing right now given the fact that he doesn't know what Republicans are going to do to object to new President Biden's agenda.

So that's what's on the agenda when it comes to the power-sharing agreement. The broader discussion of course is when is the Senate impeachment trial going to begin, like you noted. The minority leader, Mitch McConnell, sent an offer yesterday essentially arguing that maybe this should be delayed by a couple of weeks. Democrats aren't completely saying no to that in part because they see an opportunity potentially to get more of Biden's nominees through the Senate in the upcoming days.

You can expect that they are not going to just agree to postpone the trial and give former President Trump more time to get his arguments together unless they get a substantial agreement, some give and take, from Republicans on the nominee side of things. So a lot to work out this morning. A lot that we don't know, but we will keep you posted, of course, as things continue to unfold.

SCIUTTO: Lauren, Nancy Pelosi has said that the stimulus package could be ready by February 1st. I wonder, is there a realistic chance that Democrats and Republicans could work to get a stimulus package passed before the start of a Senate trial? I mean, given, as we've discussed, there's still disagreements about how big that is.

FOX: Well, I think that that's still an outstanding question. You know, we heard yesterday from Senator Susan Collins. She's a moderate Republican from the state of Maine. And she said, look, we just passed more than $900 billion stimulus package. I'm not sure we need a $1.9 trillion package right this second. So that gives you a sense of what an uphill climb it is to get some Republicans on board. Now I have new reporting this morning talking to some Democratic

Senate and House aides that essentially Democrats are laying the ground work that if they can't get Republicans to sign on in a quick manner, they could be prepared to move forward with an arcane legislative procedure that we call up here reconciliation. Essentially what it does is it gives Democrats some limited ability to pass some legislation that affects the budget with just a simple majority.

So they are eyeing that process. It's complicated. It's tough. But it's an option for them if they can't win over Republicans fast enough.

SCIUTTO: Just to be clear on that, Lauren. If they were do that, you're saying they could conceivably pass a big stimulus package with just 50 votes plus the VP under reconciliation?

FOX: Essentially that's exactly right, Jim.

SCIUTTO: All right.

FOX: What exactly fits in that is unclear. It's a tough process.

SCIUTTO: Understood.

HARLOW: That's really important point. Lauren, thank you so much for that.

Well, President Biden is ramping up his administration's response to the COVID pandemic. And Dr. Anthony Fauci this morning really opening up about his time in the Trump White House. Listen.

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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR, NEW DAY: Did the lack of candor, did the lack of facts in some cases over the last year, cost lives?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, BIDEN'S CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER ON CORONAVIRUS: You know, it very likely did. You know, I don't want that, John, to be a sound bite, but I think if you just look at that, you can see that when you're starting to go down paths that are not based on any science at all, and we've been there before. I don't want to rehash it. That is not helpful at all.

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SCIUTTO: Might have cost lives. We're now learning that the CDC did not move quickly enough to catch potentially dangerous coronavirus mutations. We've seen a lot of them.

CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now with more.

OK. So this is yet one more problem for the new administration to try to get a handle on. What's the plan? ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, President

Biden has been very clear, he said, even before he was inaugurated, we need to improve this surveillance system for catching mutations of the coronavirus. The U.K. does a great job at it. The U.S. needs to catch up.

Let's take a look at what the goal was. The CDC set a goal for itself to increase genetic sequencing -- that's how you look for these mutations -- by an additional 3500 sequences per week. And instead what was actually achieved was an additional 2250 to 2650 depending upon how you count it. And so obviously, that is not 3500. They did not achieve that goal but they are moving, they say, full speed ahead. They've got private labs involved now in the effort.

But let's take a look at where it stands now. The U.S. is 33rd in the world in terms of genetic sequencing per cases per week. 33rd. So places like Sierra Leone, Senegal, Benin, those places are ahead of us, even though we, of course, have far more resources -- Jim, Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Wow.

HARLOW: Elizabeth, before you go, the CDC is changing their guidance. And this blew me away. But they're actually saying you can mix match vaccines? So does that mean you can get one Pfizer dose and then the second dose can be Moderna, for example?

COHEN: You know, if you really have to. That's I think the impression that Tony Fauci really left when he talked about this. If you have to, he and everyone else wants us to do it the way that the FDA authorized it, which is you get either Moderna or Pfizer and you wait the prescribed amount of time. So three to four weeks depending upon which one you get. But he also knows that this is a very unusual situation and this may be the one time that authorities say, you know what, you don't have to go by what the FDA says because this is just such a difficult time.

Let's take a listen to what Dr. Fauci had to say on this.

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FAUCI: Sometimes the situation is stressed where it's very difficult to be exactly on time. So we're saying you could probably do it six weeks later, namely, two additional weeks. Quite frankly, immunologically, I don't think that's going to make a big difference.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: So again, try to do it the way that the FDA says, but if you can't, he's offering these options. If you have to -- Jim, Poppy.

SCIUTTO: OK. Yet one more challenge to vaccinations, right, is vaccine hesitancy. And we've heard this, these are people who are reluctant to or just flat-out refuse to take the vaccine when offered. Walgreens said that up to 80 percent of staff at long-term -- some long-term care facilities outright declined COVID-19 vaccines. And I wonder how broadly we're seeing this problem right now. COHEN: Yes, I was speaking with a Walgreens executive, and she told me

that. She said for some 20 percent decline, for some 80 percent decline. But those are even 20 percent is a huge number.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

COHEN: These are people who are taking care of the frailest elderly. And that's very, very disappointing to hear. Walgreens said that their pharmacists did their best, explained why the vaccine is so effective and is safe, and sometimes they succeeded, but sometimes they didn't. So moving forward, there really has to be a plan.

I think these folks are a little bit of a snapshot of at least one segment of American society. There needs to be a plan for how to better educate them.

SCIUTTO: No question. Elizabeth Cohen, let's hope that the facts break through that. Thanks so much.

Still to come this hour, Senator Mitch McConnell making a play to exert as much power as possible in his new, and I imagine, uncomfortable role as minority leader. Will it work? We're going to speak to the incoming number two in the Democratic Senate leadership, next.

HARLOW: Plus, shocking pictures. National Guard troops sleeping in a parking garage. Look at that. After they were told they could no longer use space in the U.S. Capitol Complex. One guardsman says they feel betrayed.

And Capitol Police are investigating after a lawmaker was discovered carrying a gun while attempting to go on the House floor.

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SCIUTTO: This morning, the timing of former President Trump's impeachment trial further in doubt. Speaker Nancy Pelosi said yesterday that the house is ready to begin the trial, but will wait for the Senate to signal it is ready before sending over the article of impeachment. That's when this officially kicks off. If it comes, as Senate Democrats aren't ruling out Senate Minority leader Mitch McConnell's most recent proposal, that is to delay the trial until mid-February or so, to give Trump's legal team a couple of weeks to prepare.

Joining me now to discuss this and many other questions before the Senate, Democratic Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois. He is the incoming judiciary chairman, big role, and the Majority Whip. Senator, thanks for taking the time this morning.

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): Thanks, Jim.

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SCIUTTO: So, on that proposed delay of two weeks for the Senate trial, are you open to that idea? Do you support it?

DURBIN: Well, I can tell you the priority, of course, is to make sure that the Biden administration has their team in place. We feel a sense of urgency with the pandemic that's hit America. We can't get this economy back on its feet, our kids back in school until we really take control of the situation, distribute the vaccine. Make sure people are being part of the solution --

SCIUTTO: Right --

DURBIN: To the problem, not just the traditional means, but using the vaccine as a way to protect America.

SCIUTTO: So if you can -- I mean, get, for instance, cabinet picks approved through the Senate, would you then say OK, let's let the trial slide for a couple of weeks?

DURBIN: I think that is the first priority is the Biden team --

SCIUTTO: OK --

DURBIN: Secondly is the COVID relief package by the --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

DURBIN: President. You know, that really is important. There's money in there for logistics for this vaccine. We can have the best vaccine in the world, but if it doesn't get in the arms of Americans, it's not going to do its job.

SCIUTTO: Realistically, could you if there were a two-week delay, not just get some cabinet picks approved, but get a stimulus package through? Nancy Pelosi says that she could have it all ready by February 1st.

DURBIN: Well, I can tell you that it's a high priority. Whether we can achieve it that quickly in the Senate with a 50-50 split remains to be seen. We still need an organizing resolution which means Senator McConnell and Senator Schumer have to agree on the basics. How many members will be on each one of the committees, and what's the split between the two parties and the procedure this is going to be followed. That needs to be done. There's a sense of importance and urgency on that too. I want to get down to business in the Senate Judiciary Committee. We want a hearing on domestic terrorist groups, the kind that invaded the --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

DURBIN: Capitol here on January 6th. And a lot of other issues that are very timely.

SCIUTTO: If you cannot come -- one of the sticking points in those negotiations is the question of the filibuster. I want to get to that in a moment, but if you can't come to agreement with Mitch McConnell and the Republicans, would you and the Majority leader Schumer be willing to go to reconciliation to get stimulus passed? DURBIN: I'm not ruling that out. But, in fact, that may be the avenue

we follow. A more important approach would be to see if there is bipartisan support for passing the measure initially. It's a 50-50 Senate. We can't pass anything. The Republicans can't pass anything without bipartisanship. If we can establish that early on, I think it will make a difference. I'm in a group of 16 senators, eight Democrats and eight Republicans that moved the $908 billion COVID relief package that passed a few weeks ago. There's a sense there that we want to be more productive and work together and have --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

DURBIN: An actual floor debate that means something to the American people.

SCIUTTO: On the issue of the filibuster, you, Majority leader Schumer, believe that Democrats should not make a written commitment to take that off the table. As you know, there's division within your own caucus here. Democratic Senators such Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema have spoken out against it. I'm curious. Are you concerned that Mitch McConnell will hold your legislative agenda hostage in effect if you don't grant ground on this?

DURBIN: Listen, this is a question of whether or not there's a good faith effort to pass legislation. It isn't just about the filibuster. It's about whether or not members of the Senate are willing to come together, Democrats and Republicans, and say, we'll produce 60 votes. We'll get something done here. If we find ourselves at loggerheads and impossible to move forward because of the filibuster, there's a real frustration.

SCIUTTO: Yes --

DURBIN: The American people have the sense of urgency. President Biden has that sense of urgency. I hope the members of the Senate have the same.

SCIUTTO: On another question, there is a -- there is a push now among seven Democratic senators to push an ethics complaint against Senators Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley for their role in inciting the riot on Capitol Hill. They're both -- both those senators targeted are on the Judiciary Committee with you. You were not among the seven who signed this letter. Do you support this ethics complaint?

DURBIN: I think this is the right venue. The Ethics Committee is a committee evenly divided between Democrats and Republicans in the United States Senate that really considers very fundamental issues about the conduct of members of the Senate. I think that referring this to the Ethics Committee was the right thing to do.

SCIUTTO: Final question. I'm sure you were as alarmed as all of us were by seeing those images of U.S. National Guards men and women kicked out of federal buildings, the Capitol, and having to sleep in parking lots. Are you investigating why this happened and what's going to be done to fix it? DURBIN: Well, I don't want to go out on a limb, but let me just say

this. Whatever blockhead in the United States Senate decided that the National Guard has to sleep in the parking garage should be sleeping in the parking garage himself tonight.

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SCIUTTO: Good line. And I think a lot of Americans of both parties probably agree with you on that. Senator Dick Durbin, pleasure having you on the show, hope we can keep up the conversation.

DURBIN: Thanks a lot, Jim.

POPPY HARLOW, CO-ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: Well, Capitol police this morning are investigating after a lawmaker was found to carry a gun while attempting to get on the house floor. You are not allowed to do that. Details, next.

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SCIUTTO: National Guard troops forced to rest in a parking garage have now been allowed back, thankfully, inside the U.S. Capitol complex. The change comes after several lawmakers voiced outrage at the move. Dick Durbin told me a few minutes ago, who is the blockhead who made that decision?

HARLOW: Yes, well, that's a good question. With some answers, our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. Good morning Barbara. Horrible optics.

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