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National Guard Allowed back into Capitol; Congressman Tries to Enter House Floor with Gun; Biden Pushes for Stimulus Plan; Vaccinations Ramping Up. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired January 22, 2021 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Blockhead who made that decision.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Well, that's a good question.

With some answers, our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr.

Good morning, Barbara.

Horrible optics.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Horrible that they even had to do it. I just wonder, why did it even happen in the first place?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: You know, you have to ask where the lack of common sense was in all of this. Even the Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer understanding the political optics, visiting the National Guardsmen -- I think we have video of that -- a short time ago. The political optics absolutely terrible for Congress.

What happened was hundreds of National Guardsmen who had been taking their rest breaks inside the Capitol grounds, in buildings at the Capitol grounds, like the Visitors Center, were suddenly moved, banished, and sent to a nearby parking garage. And that's when the pictures emerged of them sleeping on the floor of a parking garage during their rest break.

So, look, you know, all three of us can only imagine. It's cold. The fumes from automobiles having parked in there. The oil slicks on the floor. The lack of bathroom facilities. You know, you could go on and on.

This quickly became, you know, within minutes, a political scandal for Congress. Many from both parties weighing in, saying that this was just a terrible thing and that these guardsmen needed to be respected and they were, in fact, moved back into the Capitol complex for their rest breaks. So where do we stand now? There were 25,000 National Guard in the

nation's capital for inauguration security. Many of them are headed home now. Some will stay in the vicinity of the Capitol while security arrangements continue to be solidified.

But, you know, right now a heavy dose of common sense about not putting people on the floor of parking garages when it's absolutely not necessary. The National Guard is a rugged bunch. They know if they are going to disaster relief, Hurricane Katrina floods, fires, wildfires, they do their work and they can sleep anywhere. But, in this case, it seemed like a real lack of common sense to send them into a parking garage when Congress was across the street.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes, one thing during a hurricane when you need to, but when you've got -- when you've got other options, just makes no sense.

HARLOW: Amen to the call for common sense. Barbara Starr on that, thanks, as always, from the Pentagon.

STARR: Sure.

HARLOW: Sources tell CNN that U.S. Capitol Police this morning are investigating whether Republican Congressman Andy Harris tried to bring a concealed gun onto the House floor yesterday.

SCIUTTO: Lawmakers are allowed to carry firearms in the halls of Congress and on Capitol grounds, but not on the floor. New metal detectors were put in place outside the House chamber after the deadly Capitol Hill riots. For good reason.

CNN's Jessica Schneider joins us now with more.

Jessica, I mean, first question I suppose is why, but then what happened here?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: The why question, Jim, remains to be answered.

But, you know, this was the first time since metal detectors were set up outside the chamber last week that a member of Congress has tried to enter with a firearm. And, of course, there are now cries from some members of Congress that this is exactly why they are somewhat distrustful of their Republican colleagues.

So a Capitol official is telling us it was Congressman Andy Harris of Maryland who set off the metal detector. An officer actually discovered that he was carrying a concealed gun on his side after he set off the metal detector. So the officer sent the congressman away.

But, in a weird twist, Congressman Harris asked another Republican member who was right next to him to hold his gun, but that congressman, John Katko, did refuse. So Congressman Harris left the area. He returned a little while later without his gun. But Capitol Police are investigating this because the rules are very clear here, members of Congress, they can carry firearms in the hallways of Congress as long as they have licenses in Washington, they carry ammunition separately, but they are never allowed to bring guns onto the House floor.

So we reached out to Congressman Harris' office. They did not return our calls for comment.

But, guys, Republicans, they've been in an uproar ever since these metal detectors were installed last week. But it's because these other members say they're just distrustful of their colleagues after the January 6th insurrection. They're concerned about potentially firearms on the floor, which appears to be exactly what might have happened yesterday if those metal detectors hadn't stopped the congressman.

So a lot of questions this morning and we still haven't heard from the congressman himself about this.

Guys.

SCIUTTO: I mean, imagine during the riot, I mean the rioters could have disarmed a congressman, right?

SCHNEIDER: Yes.

SCIUTTO: I mean you have a whole host of questions that arise from that.

Jessica Schneider, thanks very much.

Well, President Biden is setting his sights today on helping the millions of Americans struggling financially because of the pandemic. How could his new executive actions and stimulus plan help you? We'll have more details.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:38:55]

HARLOW: Welcome back.

Right now President Biden is confronting dueling pandemic crises, a health one and an economic one. Millions are still struggling every single day to make ends meet. And now the president is pushing a huge $1.9 trillion stimulus proposal. It's three times more than what we saw during the Great Recession in terms of just the TARP money. Is it the right plan for the moment, though?

Let's dissect it. Larry Summers is here, former director of the National Economic Council under President Obama. Of course he also served as Treasury secretary in the Clinton administration.

It's really good to have you. Good morning.

LARRY SUMMERS, FORMER DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA: Poppy, I'm really glad to be with you. I'm really glad that we're in a new era with President Biden. And I'm really glad that we've got a government that is focused on helping people who are suffering and left behind. And I think, overall, the right message is the one President Biden is

sending, that we're at much more risk of doing too little to restart the economy, to help those who have been left behind and, above all, to invest in our future.

[09:40:08]

The risks of doing too little are much bigger than the risks of doing too much.

HARLOW: I -- I --

SUMMERS: That said, I would like to see --

HARLOW: Yes -- yes --

SUMMERS: I would like to see us pivoting more quickly to where I know the president is going to go, which is to building back better.

If you look at the proposal as it's been put forward, if it was literally enacted into law, household incomes in total would be well more than a trillion dollars greater than they would have been if COVID had never happened. And the proposal is way disproportionately tilted, as it should be, to those in the lower part of the income distribution. And, for them, it's quite likely that their incomes will be as much as a third grader than they would have been on pre-COVID trends.

So I'm all for the redistribution. I'm all for targeted support. But when I look at the ways in which public schools are inadequate in this country, when I look at decaying infrastructure, when I look at the way we're lagging China in important areas in science, I'd like to make absolutely certain that we are building back better.

HARLOW: So it sounds to --

SUMMERS: As the president-elect emphasized in his campaign.

HARLOW: It sounds to me like you're saying, because a month ago, not even, that you said the idea of $2,000 stimulus checks that are not targeted, which they're not right now, it's just under a certain income threshold, that those are bad economics and would be a serious mistake. That sounds like a pretty significant message from someone who worked in two Democratic administrations to this new Democratic administration saying they need to rethink this, change who they go to, make them more targeted?

SUMMERS: I'd like to see the $2,000 checks more targeted. Even more, I'd like to see the focus be on programs like unemployment insurance, programs like the food stamps that the president-elect is going to be talking about today, on support for the people who are the lower slash in the k-shaped recovery. And I'd like to see them hurry towards the build back better agenda that the vice president spoke about -- vice president then, president today -- spoke about during his campaign.

Look, our overwhelming problem is that people are left -- being left behind. But we can't solve what's fundamentally like from an economic point of view like a year-long snowstorm or a year-long hurricane.

HARLOW: But isn't it maybe --

SUMMERS: Just by giving -- just by giving people money.

HARLOW: Yes.

SUMMERS: So, first --

HARLOW: I --

SUMMERS: Overwhelming priority is getting the disease behind us. That's why I'm so excited about the things the president-elect talked about yesterday.

HARLOW: I agree with you that the check doesn't solve it all. I'm sorry to step on you. There's this, you know, delay in audio. I apologize for that, Secretary Summers, but -- but my question, though, is what you bring up, and that is this issue of scarring of the -- of the -- of the job market. This long-term and permanent job loss that even Fed Chairman Powell said is going to come from this. Like some of these jobs will just never come back.

So to address that, what do you make of a universal basic income proposal? We're even seeing Andrew Yang, who ran for president, now he's running for mayor of New York City, think that that is a big part of a solution. Is it time for a universal basic income in America?

SUMMERS: I don't think so. I think it's much more time for universal job availability. Look, we've got seniors not being taken care of right in our homes, in our nursing homes. That's part of why the mortality rate has been so high. We have millions of kids who aren't able to have the opportunities that my kids or most of the people in the media industry's kids are getting who can be helped in all sorts of ways, whether it's tutoring or playing youth sports or musical instruments.

[09:45:00]

We've got, in Massachusetts, where I live, they estimate that we're paying the equivalent of a 75 percent -- 75-cent a gallon tax in extra repairs to our cars because we haven't kept the roads free of potholes in the right kind of way.

So there's a huge amount of work to do. And, of course, the president has put central emphasis on climate change and all the work that needs to be done to create a new, more renewable and green economy. Those, I think, are the better roots to job creation.

HARLOW: OK. Yes. Well --

SUMMERS: The evidence is the people who are getting money, but not working, it's often not as satisfying a life, doesn't often have as good outcomes for their kids. So I'd rather see us focus on good and decent jobs for all. HARLOW: Well, look, he's got a portrait of FDR across from the

Resolute Desk. So maybe there will be more talk about some sort of new deal.

It's good to have you. I'm sorry we're out of time. Larry Summers, thank you.

SUMMER: Good to be with you.

HARLOW: All right, we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:50:39]

HARLOW: More than a million COVID vaccines were administered across the country yesterday. The CDC says its second time -- it's the second time as many doses were given in a day. The truth is we've got to get way up from there, though. By spring we're likely to have a third vaccine to mix in. Johnson & Johnson, a board member of the company, said they will have 100 million doses available by April.

SCIUTTO: Yes, we hope that's a hopeful sign, an uptick in the rate of vaccination.

Dr. Paul Offit joins us now to discuss. He's director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children's Hospital in Philadelphia. He's also a member of the FDA's Vaccine Advisory Committee. Another way of saying he knows what he's talking about on vaccines.

Dr. Offit, you know, Dr. Fauci and others, even as this has been a slow rollout, with a whole host of hiccups around the country and at the federal level, Fauci's been consistent for a couple of weeks now saying, listen, it's going to turn, it's going to get better. And I wonder if you're seeing that now and how we should expect this to proceed in the next several weeks.

DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: I think he's right. I think there's a lot to be optimic about. First of all, you have two vaccines, this mRNA vaccines, that are remarkably effective, 95 percent effective. You have two more vaccines, the Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca vaccines that are likely to come online in the next month or two. It's going to get warmer out. As it gets warmer, that makes it less likely that this virus can be transmitted as efficiently. You have an administration in place that cares about the science and that, I think, knows what it's doing.

And the other thing I think that never gets really talked about much is that when you list, for example, that 25 million people have been infected in the United States, that's really just people who have been tested and found to be infected. Most -- many people haven't been tested who have mild or asymptomatic disease. If you do antibody surveillance studies where you see whose really been infected and who -- and who hasn't, that number's probably off by a factor of three. It's probably closer to 70 million or 75 million people who have already been infected who therefore, frankly, were immune. You can consider them having been immunized. That's almost 20 percent of the population.

So to get up to 70 percent immunization rates, which I think is possible, and I think will then allow us to say we've gotten control of this virus, I think that could happen as long as we give, frankly, more than a million doses a day. I think it's going to have to be closer to 3 million doses a day to get on top of this by the summer.

HARLOW: Fareed Zakaria, our college here, had a really, really interesting op-ed about -- in "The Washington Post" about that, saying, like, we have to set our sights way higher in terms of the number of doses.

The problem is, I couldn't believe, Dr. Offit, this Kaiser Family Foundation study that came out this morning saying six in ten Americans don't know where to get a COVID vaccine.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: And, by the way, that includes 21 percent of health care workers. I mean they just don't even know where to go to get what they're -- where they're allowed to get.

OFFIT: I know. you know, we don't have a public health system that is geared towards mass immunization. I think we are slowly doing that. I'm watching that happen in Philadelphia to some extent. I think different states are learning at different rates. But, you're right, we are just learning as we go and it's been painful.

SCIUTTO: Other issue, challenge, and, again, I don't want to focus entirely on the challenges, but these are things that have to be overcome to get to where you need to be, is vaccine hesitancy, right? People who just are -- don't want to take it. I mean the Walgreens CEO, speaking to Christine Romans, our colleague, today, saying that up to 80 percent of staff at long-term care facilities, of course a key, vulnerable spot in all this, refused to take it. And I wonder how broadly we're seeing that problem and can that be overcome?

OFFIT: You know, I think -- I think at some level it's explainable. First of all, I think you should be skeptical of anything you put in your body, including vaccines. The language that surrounded this vaccine has been a little scary, right, Warp Speed, race for vaccine, who's going to be the first to cross the finish line. It's a novel technology, messenger RNA. We don't have another commercial vaccine which has used that technology. So I get all that.

But, I mean, you do have abundant evidence of efficacy, abundant evidence for safety. I mean this vaccine has now been in more than 10 million people and we don't have even evidence for a rare side effect. So I think people who are skeptical, and reasonably skeptical, I think if they can be convinced by data and logic and reason, then we should be able to convince them. If they're simply conspiracy theorists who believe that, you know, that pharmaceutical companies are lying, then you're not going to be able to convince them. But if people are convinced by data, then I think we'll be able to convince them. HARLOW: Let's hope so. Dr. Paul Offit, really good to have you this

morning. Thank you very much.

[09:55:01]

SCIUTTO: Yes.

OFFIT: Thank you.

HARLOW: When is the impeachment trial of former President Trump actually going to start? It hinges on a standoff right now between Senators Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell. We'll take you live to The Hill, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Top of the hour. Friday morning. Glad you're with us. I'm Poppy Harlow.

SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

President Biden pushing forward with his agenda as lawmakers ready the second impeachment trial of the former president, Donald Trump. A source tells CNN the House could send the article of impeachment to the Senate as soon as today.

[10:00:04]