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Interview with Sen. Ben Cardin (D-MD); Article of Impeachment Goes to House on Monday; Kevin Hassett Supports Biden Stimulus Package. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired January 22, 2021 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

SEN. BEN CARDIN (D-MD): Well, I think you're seeing the Republican leader trying to use his position to get as much advantage as possible. I expect within the next few days, we will have organizing resolutions passed in the United States Senate --

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: OK.

CARDIN: -- so I think we'll come together. I'm an optimist. And, look, I serve in the United States Senate, I guess I have to be an optimist. But I'm an optimist that we're going to be able to find a way forward.

Look, we're anxious to get down to work. We're in the middle of a pandemic, we have economic challenges. We've got to get our work done, and I think Democrats and Republicans want to get down to work.

HARLOW: There's talk among some of your Democratic colleagues, as you know, of gutting the filibuster. Your Democratic colleague, the moderate Joe Manchin has called that B.S. before, and his argument is essentially it takes any reason to compromise on anything to get 60 votes completely off the table. Is it a little too soon for you guys to make that move, in your opinion? Should you not at least wait to see what Republicans do, what McConnell does?

CARDIN: Poppy, there has been really meaningful discussions between Democrats and Republicans as to how we can get the debate on the floor of the United States Senate on important issues, with opportunities for amendments and votes. And there's support on both sides of the aisle to get that done.

So I think there is an understanding that the current use of the filibuster rule has been abused, not only by the party that may be in the minority, but by individual senators. And it's important that we reform it in a way that the floor is available for votes and amendments --

HARLOW: OK.

CARDIN: -- and debate, and we get things done.

HARLOW: But that's different than saying get rid of it, that's different than saying gut it, right? You're not -- it sounds like you're not there yet.

CARDIN: I think we have to reform the filibuster rules, and I think there's support on both sides of the aisle to do it --

HARLOW: OK.

CARDIN: -- and I hope we can come to a bipartisan agreement on how to get that done.

HARLOW: You sit -- before you go -- on the Foreign Relations Committee. Obviously the START Treaty, you know, very important nuclear arms agreement with Russia, expires in February, in early February. This morning, we learned the Biden administration is seeking a five-year extension of it. Russia's response to it was, we're open to it but it's all in the details of the proposal. What happens if this doesn't get signed in the next few weeks?

CARDIN: Well, New START is beneficial to the United States and Russia, so I am optimistic that we'll find a way to extend it. It would be tragic if we let this expire. The world looks to the United States for leadership in dealing with the nuclear proliferation, and clearly where there's a path forward to work with Russia to reduce the nuclear confrontations, we should take advantage of it.

So that should be the highest priority in (ph) our bilateral relationship with Russia right now, is to extend the New START Treaty.

HARLOW: OK. We're out of time. But I will note, you and Lisa Murkowski just put forward bipartisan legislation to have Congress finally vote and adopt on the Equal Rights Amendment. That'd be a big deal, if it happened in the 117th Congress. And now I'll let you go vote.

CARDIN: Poppy, thanks for mentioning that --

HARLOW: Sure.

CARDIN: -- this is an area where we can improve our Constitution. I think most Americans think it's already in there. Let's get it done, and I'm proud to work with Senator Murkowski on this.

HARLOW: Senator Cardin, we thank you.

And we'll take a quick break, we'll be right back.

[10:33:23]

CARDIN: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: All right, a lot of news just in the last few minutes here, including the news that the article of impeachment against former President Donald J. Trump will be transmitted from the House to the Senate on Monday, setting up the start of the trial next week. I want to bring in CNN political analyst and national political reporter for "The New York Times" Astead Herndon.

Good to have you here, Astead. Listen, there are some things that could happen between now and then; perhaps Republicans and Democrats reach agreement on rules going forward, but right now they're at loggerheads. So a trial begins next week, how long does it last, do we know?

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, we really don't right at this moment. We know that the kind of basis for these things takes weeks, and we know that this is an administration that wants the Senate to get started on confirming its appointments, and wants a Congress that is focused really on economic relief and relief from the pandemic. They're balancing both those concerns, the accountability that Democrats want to see given to former President Trump about what happened on January 6th, but they also want to turn the page and look forward.

And so that is going to be a question of leverage from Schumer, but also of McConnell who still, even with the changes in the makeup of the Senate, retains significant power and we know is not afraid to kind of bust up norms in the name of wresting power for Republicans. So that's going to be a real challenge for Schumer and for Joe Biden as he enters the first days of his presidency.

SCIUTTO: Given that you have, you know, an irresistible force here meeting an immovable object -- as far as we could tell and particularly on that issue of ruling out the filibuster, I mean, has this blown up, in effect, the Biden plan here, right? Which was to get through key cabinet picks -- granted, they have one, looks like they're going to get Lloyd Austin at Defense soon, but not others yet. And they wanted to get stimulus through before a trial. Has that been blown up?

HERNDON: I think the kind of rosiest plan has been blown up. I don't think the Biden team would have been surprised by any of this, but certainly the glide path to the kind of first month of their dreams is certainly looking more difficult than it used to.

But, hey, let's be clear, this is going to show us the difference partly between the Biden administration and the Trump administration. In some ways, Democrats in Congress will take their cues from a presidential administration that will instruct them on what they want, kind of fluid situation, and how to respond to Mitch McConnell's demands. We haven't seen that from a White House throughout the last four years from the Republican side --

[10:40:11]

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HERNDON: -- that was largely disengaged on the congressional front.

So we do not have real answers as to what it looks like going forward, but we do know that this will be kind of an early test of Joe Biden's vision that Republicans will come around --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HERNDON: -- that Republicans will work with him and that we'll see a different tone in Congress than we've seen the previous four, even 12 years if you want to include President Obama.

SCIUTTO: Yes, managing that relationship between the White House and the Hill, something that President Trump did not show himself capable of doing. But as you said, that was one of Biden's selling points.

Now, you've been out in the field, including in Charlottesville, Virginia, talking to people about their desire for accountability following the events of January 6th, what happened before, what happened afterwards. I mean, do you find that they want this trial to go forward, that that's top of their minds right now?

HERNDON: Yes, it's about -- and when you talk to folks, I went to Charlottesville because it's the place Joe Biden says inspired him to run, that the events that happened there were really the core to his call of restoring the soul of the nation and for unity.

And when you talk to the people there, the same people he called heroes who are counterprotesting against Nazis and white supremacists, they talk about accountability not only for President Trump, when we look at the impeachment trial, but also for a country that has to deal with kind of core democratic questions in a new way.

That they want Joe Biden and Democrats not to run from the hard questions of racial equality, of kind of power-sharing among Americans as a whole, but really confront those who have tried to test democracy over the last two or three months.

And that unity doesn't mean to reach out to the kind of extremists or to reach out to those who aren't supporting the core democratic tenets, but it means uniting the country in opposition to them. That was the message we really heard from folks there, it just is an open question about how committed Biden is to that rather (INAUDIBLE) kind of lowering the temperature in Washington civility (ph), things that he has been really known for throughout his political career.

SCIUTTO: It's all about a cost-and-benefit analysis in effect, how far does he want to go down that path when he has to calculate what cost it will be to the other priorities on his legislative agenda.

HERNDON: Exactly.

SCIUTTO: Question before we go, stimulus right now, I mean is that issue dead until after, now, a trial of the former president?

HERNDON: You know, even before we got the news that this was going to -- this was transmitted on Monday, you saw some skepticism from Republicans that would need to back this -- Susan Collins and others -- about the kind of stimulus package that Joe Biden --

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: Yes. HERNDON: -- for. So that was the initial barrier for Biden and for

congressional Democrats. This is another one, of course, but they're going to have to, you know, walk and chew gum at the same time here.

We know that Joe Biden has made significant promises on kind of delivering in the first month, and we know that Democrats feel like they're in a strong political position on being the party that will send checks directly to the American people, and want to put Republicans in the position of standing in the way of that.

We have to see if that kind of political calculus holds, even while an impeachment trial is going on. But I don't think we're going to see one versus the other, I think you're going to see a party that tries to do both no matter how difficult it is.

SCIUTTO: We'll be watching. And Senator Dick Durbin, number two on the Democratic leadership in the Senate, told me just last hour that he's leaving reconciliation as a possibility for stimulus, that would only require 50 votes plus the vice president. We'll see. Astead Herndon, thanks very much.

HERNDON: Thank you.

[10:43:37]

HARLOW: Jim just brought up stimulus, and there was a big debate over President Biden's stimulus plan. It's heating up, millions of Americans are caught in the middle of this including a laid off worker who can only afford expired food. We'll hear their story, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Welcome back. Well, this morning, as some Senate Republicans are pushing back on President Biden's huge $1.9 trillion stimulus plan, a former Trump top economist, Kevin Hassett, also a conservative is showing it some love. Our Matt Egan broke this story, it was quickly retweeted by the White House chief of staff, Ron Klain, touting bipartisan support.

SCIUTTO: Matt Egan joins us now. Matt, you spoke directly with Hassett. Trouble is, I suppose, he's out of government now and Republicans currently sitting in the Senate don't seem to want this. What more did he tell you and where does he go from here?

MATT EGAN, CNN BUSINESS LEAD WRITER: Well, Jim and Poppy, President Biden, during his address on Wednesday, he was calling for unity. And we're starting to hear a glimmer of that, at least among economists.

All week, I've been talking to Obama (ph) advisers who, not surprisingly, support Biden's $1.9 trillion rescue plan. But what is really surprising is now we're hearing from a former Trump economist who is really broadly backing this. Kevin Hassett told me that he is really alarmed by what he called the scary rate that the virus is spreading throughout the United States, and he's calling on Congress to act swiftly. Let me read to you a key quote. He said that "There are so many

businesses treading water, barely hanging on. Now they are getting hit by another shock. You could end up in a negative spiral for the economy."

He is, in essence, predicting a double-dip recession. Now, Joe Biden is not (INAUDIBLE) everything he wants, but the fact that you're hearing this support from Hassett and pro-business groups like the Chamber of Commerce is going to make it hard for Republicans to reject this out of hand. The question is, of course, where they compromise. And the answer is going to impact the livelihoods of millions.

[10:50:15]

HARLOW: it's a big deal to be hearing more and more conservative economists' support, at least, for this.

Matt, before you go, you have a piece online -- just went up -- about how everything the president is planning to do to try to rescue the economy, all really hinges on vaccine distribution and if they can fix that.

EGAN: Yes, that's right, Poppy. I mean, this is a race against time, not just to save lives but to keep the economy afloat. These government restrictions, the health restrictions and voluntary steps that Americans are taking, I mean, it is crushing parts of the economy, everything from domestic air travel to box office sales to hotel occupancy, it's all so far below pre-crisis levels.

I talked to someone from Virginia, a father of two, who summed it up best. He said that he went out on unpaid lead from his job at a car dealership because he didn't want to get his kids, his elderly parents sick. And he said, I could physically go to work, but is it worth dying or infecting someone in my house? He said we just need a vaccine (ph) (INAUDIBLE).

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: It's all about that. Matt, thank you for the reporting this morning.

Speaking of those people most affected that are waiting on Congress to act with their livelihood at stake, just last week, more than 900,000 new first-time unemployment claims.

SCIUTTO: Yes, the problem is not going away. CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich spoke with several laid off transportation workers to find out how they're making ends meet. Vanessa, what did you find? How are they managing?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there is no question that significant economic relief is needed right now, and especially for these industries that have simply not come back since the beginning of the pandemic -- that includes the transportation industry. And we spoke to several transportation workers who say that when

Americans stopped traveling, they lost their jobs. And especially for these low-wage transportation workers, they are in dire straits.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

YURKEVICH (voice-over): Joseph (ph) Palma (ph) lost hope in this pandemic. He says he often goes a day or two without food.

JOSEPH PALMA, UNEMPLOYED AIRLINE WORKER: It's not right, it's not great. I have to survive, I have to eat something.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): Palma, a contractor for American Airlines, was laid off in March. He survives off $275 a week in unemployment, and food stamps. He lost his apartment, and now lives in this one room. Trips to the grocery store take him to the expired food aisle.

PALMA: That's the only way I can eat because it's cheaper, it is almost half the price and sometimes more than that. I keep it for the longest I can keep it so I can wait for my next check for food stamps.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): He's one of more than 120,000 airline workers out of a job since February. When Americans stopped traveling, the transportation industry took a blow and has yet to recover. Between air, rail and ground transport, more than a quarter million jobs have been lost.

PALMA: This is all my medicines, (INAUDIBLE).

YURKEVICH (voice-over): Nearly $300 worth of prescriptions sit by his bedside. A heart condition left Palma with $12,000 in hospital bills. With student loans, he's $20,000 in debt. He says all of that makes it even harder to find food and work.

PALMA: I can't even go to the food banks because I have no car. Every time I go out looking for a job, I have to walk so many miles.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): For 21 years, Gerson Fernandes has driven a yellow cab.

YURKEVICH: What's it like driving a cab, being a cab-driver in the pandemic?

GERSON FERNANDES, NYC TAXI DRIVER: It's like you have to keep driving and hope for the best.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): Yellow cabs are an iconic part of New York City. At the height of the pandemic, ridership was down 90 percent for taxis, 85 percent for rideshare apps. Recovery has been slow.

FERNANDES: Everybody is hurting, but I'm talking for cabs. And for us, we are hurting a lot.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): Fernandes says he's lucky if he picks up four to five customers a day. He spends his eight-hour shift waiting for passengers at LaGuardia Airport. YURKEVICH: What does that mean? I mean, you have a beautiful home,

what does that mean when you lost that much?

FERNANDES: When you say beautiful home? Beautiful at that time. No longer now. Like we need to say, it was beautiful in those days, we could afford to buy a home and pay the mortgages or pay all the money. But now, it's so bad that, like, difficult to pay.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): His biggest expense? The lease on his taxi medallion. He cannot afford the $3,000 a month.

FERNANDES: I try my best. But, like, how much can you try? How far can you go? What can you do? Very limited resources.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): It's the kindness of strangers that have helped fill his pockets and lift his spirits.

[10:55:04]

FERNANDES: So many people are tipping. In fact, people tell me, like, they give me $5 and even $10, I say, it's too much. They say because this time, everybody's hurting and you are working.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

YURKEVICH: And just yesterday, we heard from President Biden's transportation secretary nominee, Pete Buttigieg, who, in his confirmation hearing, said that one of his key priorities was going to be to bring back transportation jobs and create new ones.

Jim and Poppy, this is all part of this huge economic stimulus package that the Biden transportation is proposing. It's ambitious, but it's needed -- Jim and Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: My God, Vanessa, that piece, and hearing from Gerson, the taxi driver? I mean, you could feel his pain through the screen. Thank you for bringing us his voice and others.

Thanks to all of you for joining us today. We'll see you back here on Monday, have a healthy and safe weekend, I'm Poppy Harlow.

SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto. NEWSROOM with Kate Bolduan starts after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00;00]