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U.S. Jobless Claims Remain Near Historic Highs; Congressman Found Carrying Gun When Trying to Go on House Floor; DOJ to Confront Whether Its Lawyers Can Keep Defending Trump. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired January 22, 2021 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And today that up to 80 percent of the staff at some long-term care facilities where they have been tasked with administering vaccine, 80 percent of the staff are declining to get the shot because they don't trust that it's safe.

[11:30:12]

What are you going to do about that?

ANDY SLAVITT, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE ADVISER FOR COVID RESPONDENT: So we're seeing these reports as well, that there are people who are -- look, there are people who will crawl over broken glass to get vaccines and we need to get everybody who wants them, the vaccine, as quickly possible.

There is another category of people that are interested in taking a vaccine but they have questions, legitimate questions. And I don't think it is right for us to be -- to sort of categorize everybody who is not sure or has a question as necessarily just being anti-vaccine or vaccine hesitant. There are legitimate questions that people have. There has to be a great communication strategy that both listens to what these concerns are, gives them direct answers.

The CDC is in the process of doing that, getting good, clear communication out and we believe that there are a number of people who are watching -- who will watch for the first time people to get vaccinated and then get vaccinated subsequently.

But we have to do a good job of being very clear and transparent about the vaccines, about their safety, about their efficacy, about how important they are and what they'll allow people to do. That effort really hasn't been done at any kind of national level and that's part of our strategic plan.

BOLDUAN: It definitely should be part of the plan because you talk to the CDC. CDC has new guidelines on the time between shots that can be allowed, now saying that it can be longer in between shots but they're also saying in the new guidelines, we could potentially even mix the Pfizer and the Moderna vaccines between shot one and shot two.

Moderna just came out though, Andy, and said it has no clinical data about mixing the vaccines. In a moment when trust is needed, clarity is required and safety is the concern of so many Americans, this doesn't seem to offer that from the CDC.

SLAVITT: So I'm not going to speak for the CDC. One of the changes you're going to see now is we're going to let the scientists speak for themselves. And if they say something that people have questions about or confusing, we will allow them to speak for themselves.

I think people don't trust getting clinical and scientific information from the White House, so we will be doing -- we will be conducting briefs with the CDC, with the NIH and we will allow them to speak for themselves on a regular basis, give them the form that allows them to clarify those questions. Because this is going to be an ever evolving picture, as you know, Kate. This are the questions for today, tomorrow, there will be another set of questions, and we want to get into a rhythm where people can look to the CDC and the CDC could give the best guidance they know at the time and understand that the guidance may evolve as the science evolves, as we know it evolves. But our job is to tell the CDC scientists that they have unfettered access to do their jobs and communicate with the public.

BOLDUAN: Andy, please come on more often. A lot of these questions, let's continue to get some answers. Thank you.

SLAVITT: You got it.

BOLDUAN: We have some breaking news coming into CNN just now. Baseball legend Hank Aaron has died at the age of 86. Known as the Homerun King, Aaron leaves behind an incredible legacy obviously both on and off the baseball field.

Here is CNN's look at the life of this iconic hall of famer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His nickname was the hammer and how appropriate. With a bat in his hand, Hank Aaron was considered by many to be the best who ever played the game. But the time his Major League Baseball career ended in 1976, Aaron had set 13 records, including most games, at-bats, total bases and RBI. But it is his 715th home run on April 8th, 1974, for which he would be remembered most.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did it. Hank Aaron is the all time homerun leader now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is the home run which broke the record previously held by Yankee's legend, Babe Ruth. But what should have been the crowning achievement in his major league career was then filled with hate and anger. On the way to one of the most sacred of baseball's records, Aaron received death threats, thousands of pieces of racist hate mail and was taunted daily at ballpark. He said it took a long time to get over the bitterness he felt at the way he was treated.

HANK AARON, MLB LEGEND: People resented that very much so. The time was not ready. The country was not ready. So I had to accept that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was born Henry Lewis Aaron in Mobile, Alabama, during the height of the depression and his passion was baseball. So after quitting high school, Aaron signed with the Indianapolis Clowns of the Negro American League. In 1952, he was signed by the Boston Braves and two years later became a regular in the outfield at the age of 20.

[11:35:00]

It was beginning of a career that would span 23 years.

When Aaron became eligible for the hall of fame in 1982, his name was on over 97 percent of the ballots. Upon his retirement, Aaron moved into the Braves front office as the director of player development and later became senior vice president.

Aaron's legacy continues to thrive both on and off the field. His Chasing the Dream Foundation gives grants to help children study the performing arts as well as sports. In 1999 Major League Baseball unveiled the first Hank Aaron award given to the best hitters in each league.

AARON: God gave people certain talent to do certain things but he also expected you to go beyond your talent sometimes. And if you go out and try to work hard to prevail, that is what life is all about.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOLDUAN: Hank Aaron, passing away at the age of 86. We'll be right back.

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[11:40:]

BOLDUAN: We are standing by right now for a new briefing at the White House. The White House press secretary along with the president's top economic adviser will be briefing reporters on their plan to try to rescue the economy from the grips of the pandemic.

We will also hearing from President Biden on this very topic today as he's expected to continue his executive order blitz signing at least two aimed at providing more immediate relief to struggling Americans.

It comes as jobless claims remain near record highs, the latest sign of that out just yesterday. Another 900,000 Americans filed for first- time unemployment benefits last week.

Joining mow now on this is Austan Goolsbee, Economic Professor at the University of Chicago and also the former chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under President Obama. It is good to see you again, Austan.

So 900,000 --

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO BUSINESS SCHOOL: Yes, thanks for having me, Kate. BOLDUAN: I appreciate it. 900,000 filing for first-time unemployment benefits, how does this crisis, if you will, like as the Biden walks in, how does this crisis compare to the crisis you all faced on day one with the global financial crisis?

GOOLSBEE: If anything, it is worse. I mean, it is awful. The conditions are as bad as they've ever been. It is a little different, of course, because it is not a normal business cycle. It is not like the bubble popped and there was a financial crisis. This is coming just because of the virus. So I think that is why you've seen such a prime focus from the new president about if we can get control of this virus, then we can bring the economy back. I do think there is something to that.

BOLDUAN: It's interesting. And part of it that he's pushing in the COVID relief package is a push to $15 minimum wage. Big business and CEOs, like the head of Walmart, he has come out to say, look, $7.25, where it stands now is too low. But they only want to move to $15 if it is on a bipartisan basis. Do you think when it comes to something like this, and the COVID relief package, that a move in a bipartisan way is important?

GOOLSBEE: Only a little. I mean, the economy needs help right now. And if Republicans or anybody who has watched the American politics in the last 12 years, if you're saying let's not do anything until we could get Republicans to agree with what the Democrats want to do or Democrats who agree with what Republicans want to do, we're going to do nothing. I mean, they have been fighting for 12 years plus.

So the economy certainly needs relief right now. And we certainly need to get control of the spread of the virus right now. I hope we could do that in a bipartisan way. But it certainly wasn't bipartisan when they cut taxes for the big corporations by $2 trillion. So I think it is a little weird for the leaders of those same corporations to be saying, really, we should only do economic policy if both parties can agree.

BOLDUAN: So Biden wants the package, the broad COVID package, right? He wants bipartisan, something that he has asked for. So if the choice is between lowering ambitions down from 1.9 to get Republican support or passing it through the way that they will do it, which we won't get into with just Democrats, which would you advise?

GOOLSBEE: I mean, I'm not a political expert, I'm the policy guy. But I know the economy needs relief now as much as we could get. So I would be inclined -- if I was the political decider, I would be inclined to get as much as you can get with whatever it takes to get it through Congress. If that means 50 votes, then it is 50 votes. If that means 60 votes, they could get 60.

But I think, to me, the most important thing is not just some number, it is what are we spending the money on. Are we actually directing the resources to control this virus and to get relief to the people who are threatened by permanent damage? That is what we have to do.

BOLDUAN: Look, there is a lot of factors that go into my next question so just don't punt on it, please. When do you think realistically that the country will be out of this and in recovery?

[11:45:00]

GOOLSBEE: Well, I mean, everything hinges on the how rapidly can we get the vaccine spread out. Hopefully, we cannot -- we don't have to follow the normal business cycle rules. If this was a normal cycle, we would look at one to two years before we could get the unemployment rate back down to something like what it was before this began.

But we saw a brief snippet after the summer. We had a collapse and we had a rebound faster than any recovery, the problem was it was only about a third to half of the whole that we dug.

So I think if we could get the vaccine out such that we've got control of the spread of the virus, we've seen other countries, other advanced countries that got control of the virus, their economies rebounded quite rapidly. It is -- what happened here is people have the money, and the economy wants to go back. It is not like a normal recession. It is just we got to lay the conditions that people feel safe so that they can go back out and do it.

BOLDUAN: And be legitimately safe to go back out and do it. It is good to see you, Austan, thank you.

GOOLSBEE: Yes, legitimately safe.

BOLDUAN: Yes, exactly. Thank you so much. It is good to see you.

GOOLSBEE: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, lawmakers voicing fear and frustrations over security and now a congressman is stopped for entering the House floor for carrying a gun. Now, the Capitol police, they have opened an investigation. Details on that, ahead.

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[11:50:00]

BOLDUAN: Concerns over safety in the Capitol have not gone away. Some members of Congress are saying they still fear for their safety around fellow members of Congress at the moment. Now, police are investigating after one representative was found carrying a concealed weapon on him as he was on his way to the House floor.

CNN's Jessica Schneider, she's here with me now with more on this. Jessica, what happened?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, this is the first time since metal detectors were set up outside the chamber last week that a member of Congress has tried to enter with a firearm. So a Capitol official was telling us it was Congressman Andy Harris of Maryland who set off that metal detector and that he was carrying a concealed gun on his side. And we're told that after it was discovered, Congressman Harris actually asked another Republican member to hold

his gun, but that that congressman, John Katko, refused.

So Congressman Harris then left the area, returned a little while later without his gun and was able to go on the House floor eventually. But the fact that he tried to enter with that concealed weapon initially, it has definitely rattled some members.

And now some are saying that this is exactly why they indicated some distress of their Republican colleagues. Here is the congresswoman, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): It is irresponsible, it is reckless, but beyond that, it is a violation of rules.

It doesn't matter what your intention is. If you are irresponsible, if you are trying to break rules, you are trying to sneak a firearm onto the floor of the House, I don't care if you accidentally set it off, I don't care if you intentionally set it off, I don't care if you set it off at all, you are endangering the lives of members of Congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Yes, a lot of outrage percolating on this issue. So Capitol police are investigating, but, Kate, really, the rules are clear, members of Congress, they can carry firearms in the halls of Congress as long as they have licenses and carry ammunition separately, but they are never allowed to bring guns onto the House floor.

So this incident is raising questions. Congressman Harris' office didn't return our calls for comment, but there is a lot of question, and, of course, there is this pushback from Republicans about even having to go through these metal detectors. So, a lot of rancor within Congress right now about this whole issue. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Yes, thank you so much.

So, President Biden's Justice Department at the very same time is facing a critical question, whether it will continue defending President Trump who relied on DOJ attorneys to fight some of his personal battles. Today may be a first critical test of that question.

CNN's Kara Scannell is joining me right now with more on this one. Kara, what are you hearing about this?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: Well, Kate, I think we're going get a real first indication of how Biden's Justice Department is going to come out on these issues. This afternoon, there is a hearing in the case. The House Democrats have sued former President Donald Trump when trying to get his tax returns after Trump's treasury department had denied them.

So, Trump's personal lawyers had asked for a hearing today saying that they were concerned that the Biden administration would change its decision and would quietly turn over the former president's tax returns to the House Democrats. They want a chance to be able to object to that.

But that's not the only case. There is also a big separation of powers case. That's the question where House democrats sued to subpoena Don McGahn. They want to talk to him about the Russia investigation. That will be a big question for the Biden Justice Department.

And then some of these personal cases, the president was -- he was sued by E. Jean Carroll. She sued him for defamation, accusing him of having raped her in the 1990s. The former president tried to get his Justice Department involved to block that lawsuit. A federal judge rejected. But the Justice Department under Trump has appealed. So that case is one that they'll have to weigh into.

And, lastly, there was the lawsuit that DOJ had sued the former first lady, Melania Trump's friend, Stephanie Winston Wolkoff, for writing a tell-all book about the first lady. That was an unusual lawsuit. Her lawyers have asked the judge to throw it out. We'll see whether Biden's Justice Department will listen on that, Kate.

[11:55:0]

BOLDUAN: Real quick, there is an inspector general -- the DOJ inspector general is now looking into this resignation of the U.S. attorney in Atlanta. He was earlier this month, I believe. What's going on here?

SCANNELL: Yes. So The Washington Post is reporting that the DOJ's inspector general is now looking into the abrupt resignation of the U.S. attorney in Atlanta, Byung Pak. He resigned just two days after Donald Trump had that call with Georgia secretary of state in which he told him to find the votes.

Also on that call, former President Trump had referred unanimously, but most people think it was referencing Pak, as saying that he was a Never Trumper. So Pak's abrupt resignation is now something that the Department of Justice's inspector general is looking at, and why he did it then.

Also unusual in that moment, the president had nominated or said that a neighboring U.S. attorney would take over that office. That's a very unusual move that breaks DOJ protocol, so that is also part of that investigation, Kate.

BOLDUAN: A lot going on. Thanks you so much, I appreciate it. And we'll be right back.

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