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Impeachment Trials Complicates Biden Agenda; Joe Biden Issues Economy-Focused Executive Actions; Moody's: Biden Stimulus Would Get U.S. Back to Full Employment By 2022; Pelosi Will Deliver Impeachment Article To Senate Monday; GOP Divided Over Post-Presidency Trump Impeachment. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired January 22, 2021 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Hello everybody, I'm John King in Washington. Thank you so much for sharing a very important news day with us major breaking news today official word, the House of Representatives plans to deliver its Trump impeachment paperwork to the Senate on Monday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): I've spoken to speaker Pelosi who informed me that the articles will be delivered to the Senate on Monday. It will be a full trial. It will be a fair trial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, forget that matter of fact tone right there from the Senate Majority Leader. If that delivery schedule holds, the first full week of the new Biden Presidency will feature an impeachment trial. A trial that will stir up all the passions of Trump and passions of the insurrection just as the new president asked the country to give unity a chance.

Senate Republicans already saying a trial means everything else goes on hold, meaning, they say, no more confirmation votes on the Biden cabinet and no time, Republicans say to consider urgent White House agenda items like a new COVID relief package. Now there may well be negotiations to slow things down, but this new impeachment wrinkle does underscore why team Biden is using executive reactions to create momentum out of the gate.

And we get some fresh examples of that a bit later this hour. Several steps designed to get more help to struggling Americans and to get it to them quicker. New executive orders pushed the treasury to speed checks to eligible Americans still waiting to receive them. They ordered federal agencies to work towards the $15 minimum wage.

And those actions demand urgent steps now to address a growing hunger crisis, including increasing the value of food stamps. We'll take you live to the White House later this hour when those details are unveiled. Also, this hour, more of the Biden team is now in place the Senate

this morning confirming the Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin. The retired general will now be the first African American to lead the pentagon, and we're told he's going to show up for work any moment now.

The new House in the Senate impeachment delivery timeline, House to the Senate impeachment delivery timeline now becomes part of an already tense fight between Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell. The two Senate leaders cannot agree on how to organize the 50-50 Senate or on the filibuster and whether that will survive.

Let's get straight on this dramatic day on Capitol Hill to CNN's Manu Raju. Manu, that impeachment timeline if it holds complicates something that was already pretty complicated.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's the confirming of Joe Biden's nominees getting his government form trying to move forward on legislation all that up in the air for a variety of reasons, one of which is once the impeachment trial begins, it will dominate Senate action. There is virtually no stopping that train from moving. There is a process that takes place.

And in order to move on other business, they would actually need the consent of all 100 Senators to schedule votes on everything from the president's cabinet nominees to moving on legislation and the like. And as we know, getting 100 Senators to agree on virtually anything can be almost impossible. So, expect once this trial to begin for it to completely dominate action in the United States Senate.

So, on Monday, that's when they formally kick off that process. Nancy Pelosi will transmit that article of impeachment from the House over to the Senate, and then we'll start to see things play out. Come Tuesday is when the impeachment managers will be in the Senate as well, as well as presiding officers and the members - the Senators will be sworn in as jurors.

The question will be who will preside, and that's going to be Chief Justice John Roberts, perhaps the president - Senator Patrick Leahy. And also, when - we could expect the arguments to begin; now how long that will take is still an open question. It could be a few days, or some Democrats have suggested that, but it could be much longer.

The Senators have an opportunity to ask questions as well. There have been three impeachment trials of presidents in history. The shortest one was in 2020, and that lasted 21 days. And if this lasts 21 days, that is going to dominate the first month of the Biden presidency. But there are still questions about how Democrats will pursue this. Will they bring in witnesses?

There is some suggesting that they will not because a lot of people saw what happened here on January 6th. They all experienced that they all saw what Donald Trump did in the lead up to the riot on Capitol Hill that led to the deaths of several people here.

And there is an expectation that perhaps they need to bring anybody else in. But John, the complicating factor too is that Democrats do go too quickly than the chances of winning more Republic support is probably even slimmer, because some Republicans want to have a longer time frame, including Mitch McConnell, the Senate Minority Leader who have suggested that Donald Trump has committed impeachable offenses, but has not ruled out the possibility of conviction. So, John, a lot of things that Democrats are balancing here is deciding to move ahead.

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RAJU: But I can tell you, John and just speaking to a number of Republican Senators, the expectations are that Donald Trump will be acquitted in this impeachment trial despite what they all saw, despite what the president did because of concerns about whether it's constitutional or not or some deciding that they're still siding with the former Republican President, John.

KING: If that timeline holds, we'll know the answer to those questions a bit earlier that I thought we think we anticipated. But we'll see if it holds and we'll see all the other moving parts as well. Manu Raju, grateful for the reporting and insights live on Capitol Hill. And that Senate organizational mass, the prospect of an impeachment trial only adds to questions about the fate of President Biden's $1.9 trillion new COVID relief package.

So, the president is taking several executive actions today hoping to get some needed aid to struggling Americans ASAP, while giving the state a playing congress as Manu just detailed there, a little time to sort itself out. Here now to share his expertise and his insights, the Chief Economist at Moody's Mark Zandi.

Mark, grateful for your time today. So, two lines of questioning and let's start with the immediate. New executive actions coming out today. The new president says, hey, treasury department, do a better job. If there is an American out there eligible to get a check under previously past programs that still waiting, speed it up, get it to the more quickly.

Addressing in very candid terms, sobering terms, the hunger crisis asking - let's expand food stamps and access to other programs to help people deal with hunger. What must the president do in your view through executive action, things he doesn't need congress to come in on? What are the most urgent needs?

MARK ZANDI, CHIEF ECONOMIST, MOODY'S ANALYTICS: Well, I think he's done many of those. For example, extending the moratorium on evicting renters. This is a big deal for about 10 million Americans, obviously very low income; they're having trouble making their back-rent payments. They can't.

And without an extension of that moratorium on evictions, they would face eviction obviously in the middle of the winter, in the middle of a raging pandemic. And that would be devastating for them, but for everyone else to watch. Help for a food stamp, so anything he can do today's executive order around food stamps, getting more money out to very hard-pressed families that are having trouble putting food on their family table. Again, devastating for the families if they can't get that, and for

everyone else watching that. The student loan payments, a lot of the federal government has extended out the moratorium on payment for student loan borrowers. Obviously, those are generally younger people, very hard pressed just trying to do the right thing, go to school and this gives them a bit of relief.

So those are the things that he can do with executive order. He's already moving very quickly on those things and with good reason. The economy is struggling, and those Households are obviously still being devastated by the financial impact of the pandemic.

KING: All right, struggling I think, is even an understatement if you look at the recent first-time unemployment claim filings and other things happening in the economy. I read the analysis you wrote this morning about the $1.9 trillion stimulus plan from Biden, and you make the case that it is necessary for the economy right now.

As you know many Republicans are saying, hey, we just passed one at the end of last year, let's give it some time, and let's see how it works. Some of them are saying 1.9 trillion is too much money. Some of them as they said when this was on the - House Democrats proposed that last year say we're not sure state and local governments deserve the assistance that the new president wants to put in there.

I want to show a graphic you have and your analysis up on the screen right now. The red line is if nothing is done, no additional support is given to the economy. The blue line is if the Biden plan passed, in your view, essentially showing that the unemployment rate would drop much more quickly with the Biden plan. Address the Republican concerns who say, hey, let's give the one we just passed a little more time, or the price tag is just too big.

ZANDI: Yes, well, the $9 billion package that was passed just a few weeks ago, and lawmakers did that just in the nick of time, because if they hadn't passed, I think the economy would have suffered a recession early in 2021, so they do deserve a lot of credit for that. But if you just do the - on that, that all runs out sometime in mid- March.

And given what's going on with this pandemic, I mean, you just watching the numbers and infections, hospitalizations, deaths, concerns about the new virus that's more contagious. You know, logic dictates that they should be working now, preparing for the real possibility. And I'd say the strong likelihood that the economy is not going to - we're not going to be on the other side of this pandemic by mid-March.

It's probably going to be mid-year, maybe later this year. And that means Americans - these hard-pressed Americans that are unemployed, mentioned the people that are - have back rents, student loan payments, need food assistance, they're going to need more help.

And so, it's just a matter of how much more help. 1.9 trillion, I think that is a large, good-sized package. And as you can see by the calculations and the arithmetic, it gets us back to full employment a lot faster, but if it's not 1.9 trillion, it's got to be very sizeable at least another trillion dollar package to get us to the outside of the pandemic.

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ZANDI: And then by the way John, if it's only 900 billion or another trillion, that's not enough to get us back to full employment. And I do think we will have to come back the Biden administration congress and think about another package of support.

And this time what kinds of things can we get the economy back to full employment, infrastructure spending, more spending on social programs, other things to get us back to full employment lot more quickly. Because even under the best scenarios, the scenario I show in that chart, it's going to take us a couple years to get back.

KING: Couple of years to get back in the best-case scenario. Mark Zandi, appreciate your insights today. And obviously as you just noted, they were going to continue this conversation now a few days and weeks, but in the months ahead. And we will mark grateful for your time today. And of course, the best medicine for the economy right now would be getting the Coronavirus that are controlled.

Speeding up vaccines is now a big piece of the new Biden plan. And 100 million doses in 100 days is the administration's promise. Now many public health experts wish that goal was more ambitious.

And some now departed Trump Coronavirus advisors say they believe the new Biden team is setting a low bar so that meeting it is virtually guaranteed. Dr. Anthony Fauci now appoint man for the new president says, he wants to focus on the delivery challenge more than get cut up in a numbers debate.

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DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: You go for a 100 million over 100 days, if we do better than that, which I personally think we likely will, then great. I just don't want to get fixated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Here to share his expertise and insights with us Dr. Ashish Jha who is the Dean of the Brown University School of Public Health. Dr. Jha is it great to see you. It is part of - there is a watch in political argument as the Biden team set the bar low, so that they can jump it.

What is your best estimate knowing the supplies we have and knowing what the new team is doing to try to streamline and make better, coordinated that process? Where should we be in the 100 days, 100 million, 125, 150?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Yes John, so first of all thanks for having me on. It's really going to depend on supply. I think that they have an excellent plan on distribution and on fixing the distribution backlog. It would certainly a million a day over the next three months would certainly be an improvement about where we've been over the last month and a half.

But I think what Dr. Fauci is saying, what all of us are saying is that, it's not enough in the sense that we really do ideally want more. If supply can hold up, I'd like us to get to 150 million or even 200 million over the next few months, but that's really going to be driven by how much vaccine we have. We could get lucky, there are other vaccines that could come online by then and that could add to the supply as well.

KING: And we see only hope Dr. Fauci has said he thinks even by next week we'll see some of the data on Johnson & Johnson, for example, and other one in the pipeline and one that is easier in terms of storage and distribution. Because they don't need that big freeze and the - we will see. Listen to how Dr. Fauci and then I want you to explain this to people watching how this would work.

Dr. Fauci says if things go well, especially to the point you just made, you get additional vaccines, you improve both the production and then the distribution process, he thinks by this fall we could be having a different conversation. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. FAUCI: We don't know the exact number. That is probably somewhere between 70 and 85 percent of the people. And I think when you get to that level, which I hope we will with our vaccination program, that, in fact we will achieve herd immunity within a reasonable period of time. And I had said hopefully that will be as we enter into the fall and in the summer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Walk through how that works if it works well.

DR. JHA: Yes, I think that's a really good timeline. The way to think about this is herd immunity is not some magic number that the day we hit it. Everything gets all better. Even as we start approaching herd immunity, John, things will start to feel meaningfully better. So, I'm hopeful that by late spring into early summer, life will begin to feel really meaningfully different and better.

Over the summer we'll keep vaccinating people, and as we get into September, 80, 90 percent of the American people will have gotten vaccinated, children will have gotten vaccinated. Again, all of it depending on data and availability and a lot of issues here between now and then. But if all of that goes well, we could be looking at a very different fall of 2021 than we did fall of 2020.

KING: All of that of course depending on how they do over the next several days and weeks. Dr. Jha, we'll continue the conversation with you as we do that. Thank you for your insights today. And up next for us and brand-new reporting on how and why some Republicans, yes, Republicans are now making the case former President Trump should be convicted at his Senate impeachment trial.

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KING: You see these images right here, the man in the middle, the new defense secretary. That's general Lloyd Austin retired, walking into the pentagon just a few moments ago. He's the first African American. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LLOYD AUSTIN, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I look forward to working with you. See you around campus.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are your priorities - to start?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Secretary Austin is the first African-American, as I was starting to say before he stopped briefly to talk to the pentagon press corps, the first African-American to lead the pentagon, confirmed earlier today by the Senate, getting right to work. The second cabinet member confirmed by the United States Senate on team Biden. We wish General Austin, now Secretary Austin well in his new job.

And more now on the news that the Trump Senate impeachment trial could begin as early as next week. The Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer says the House Speaker has told him she plans to deliver the articles of impeachment Monday. And Senate rules then require a move to the trial phase once that happens. So now we're watching to see maybe there will be negotiations to slow things down.

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KING: And as we wait to see the scheduling details, we have some brand-new CNN reporting today. And the campaign by some Republicans to persuade GOP Senators that Former President Trump deserves to be convicted. Now, let's be clear. The odds are against this effort, but it does highlight the fascinating debate among Republicans about the party's future.

And this effort we are told includes party donors and Former Trump White House officials who believe punishing the former president is critical to that future. The lobbying effort also includes a set of talking points, making the case for conviction. Let's bring in our CNN Special Correspondent Jamie Gangel who leads this reporting and insights with the details. Jamie?

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: As you said, John, the odds are against it, but let's face it. Republicans are still scared of Trump, but we have discovered that there is a campaign to convict him and take the party back.

What we've learned is there's been what I would call an underground lobbying campaign of members of congress. Some of them, as you said, are former Trump White House officials, GOP donors, former members of congress and both current and former hill staffers.

It is not coordinated, but these are dozens of influential Republicans who are really reaching out to members to encourage them first in the House to impeach, now to convict Trump. Their goal is to take the party back. Some of this has happened in public. We've seen staffers resign in protest and we've seen people like former Chief of Staff John Kelly who told our colleague Jake Tapper he would vote to remove.

But we're also hearing about dozens of others who are working behind the scenes, including a very senior former White House official who has spoken to members on both the House and Senate side because the official was so alarmed about what the president did on January 6th at the rally and in the aftermath. John?

KING: And, Jamie, your reporting includes that as part of their case, they put their key points down in writing, essentially talking points saying, hey, read this. Here's the case to convict the president.

GANGEL: Correct. We don't know how widespread this is, but we've obtained a 9-point memo that's been circulating that lays out reasons for impeachment and conviction. And we'll show you part of it here, just a couple of points. One says it's difficult to find a more anti- conservative outburst by U.S. president than Donald Trump the last two months.

It goes on to say that he urged supporters from across the nation to come to Washington, DC. to disrupt the proceedings of the January 6th joint meeting of congress, that he addressed the crowd, which was widely understood to include people who were planning to fight physically and who were prepared to die in response to his false claims of a, "stolen election" by demanding they, "fight like hell." And it goes on and on.

Also, look, John, the sources we spoke to say that a lot of this depends on Mitch McConnell. What is he willing to do? He has left the door open, but there is no question that he's getting a lot of pushback. I will tell you, I spoke to one member who spoke to Mitch McConnell who told me this.

Mitch said to me, he wants Trump gone. It is in his political interest to have him gone; it is in the GOP interest to have him gone. The question is do we get there? And as you well know, John, it will take 17 Republicans in addition to the 50 Democrats to convict. That is a heavy lift. But I will say this. I wonder - last time there was only one Republican, Mitt Romney. I wonder whether we will see more this time. John?

KING: Right, it's going to be fascinating, both the math and the speeches when it is said. And the Senate trial could begin as early as next week. Jamie Gangel, very important reporting. Grateful for your sharing with us here. And the impeachment trial is just one of the big questions facing rattled Republicans right now. Here are two others from some new reporting in time. How much influence will Trump and his family to continue to have in

the party going forward? And how can Republicans win elections if they are trapped between a fanatical base of delusional conspiracists and a broader electorate that despises Trump? TIME National Political Correspondent Molly Ball is with us now.

As always Molly, very well done, very well written framing those questions. And so, what is the answer or what are the early dividing lines as Republicans try to find the answers? What about the president and his family? What about these conspiracy theories?

[12:25:00]

MOLLY BALL, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, TIME: Well, there are a lot of Republicans, as Jamie was just reporting, sort of on both sides of this question, realizing that on the one hand, it is in the Republican Party's collective interest to move on from Trump in some way and try to regrind the party in principles and in truth. But on the other hand, it is not necessarily any individual republican

officeholders'; republican senators' interest to do that, given where the base is given the affection for Trump that still exists in the Republican rank and file.

And because we are so far out from an election, and because so much of this is so recent and so raw, they really don't even have a winch to stick their finger in, so to speak. It's not clear how any of this is going to play out, and it's complicated by the fact that they do still have these strong minorities in congress and across the country.

So it's really an open question, and I think it is the question that is going to determine the future of American politics from now on.

KING: I think you're exactly right. And just listen to a little bit of the flavor here. We're learning this is day 3 of the Biden presidency. So, we are early in every debate, how will the new president do, can he reach his goal of bipartisanship?

How do Republicans answer the many questions? You so smartly lay out in your piece. If you listen here, Senator Marco Rubio is first in this collection of Republicans. He goes back to a more traditional republican argument. Then two of his colleagues focus more on the impeachment fight. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): We now have a president who talks like a centrist but is governing from the far left.

SEN. STEVE DAINES (R-MT): President Biden should step up and deliver on his commitment on unity and healing. He needs to call Nancy Pelosi and say, speaker Pelosi, I'm asking you to stop.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I've never felt better about the Republican Senate conference being united behind the idea that what the House did was wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: So, let me frame it this way as we go through, look, Republicans are from different parts of the country, Republicans have different calculations based on their state electorates. But Lindsey Graham and Steve Daines just won reelection. They have six-year terms. Marko Rubio was up in that next election you just talked about.

So, part of this republican calculation has to be, when do I have to answer to the voters yet and how big of a factor is Trump and Trumpism going to be when I do?

BALL: That's right, and that's sort of up to Trump, right? He doesn't have his twitter platform anymore. But he still has a lot of influence, if he chooses to wield it, in some fashion, but nobody knows. Of course, he's a famously unpredictable figure, and he hasn't sent a lot of signals for what sort of political operation he plans to keep and how he plans to wield it, both in what medium and, you know, what sort of lines he wants to enforce.

And so, while there is a lot of tough talk in public, of course, I was really struck when I was reporting this piece by how pessimistic Republicans were in private. And these are not necessarily your never Trumpers for the most part. But there is a lot of pessimism in the party, because if Trump is still in the temps that feeling is, where does it all end, how long are we still going to be subjected to his whims of his that are so unpredictable.

And the other thing I was struck by was the strong feeling that, as much as they are saying, let's moves on, that's the way to achieve unity. There is a strong sense that American voters have a keen sense of justice, of fairness, of feeling that bad behavior needs to be punished.

And so as much as they are saying, you know that voters want to move on, I think Republicans especially are acutely aware of that desire on the part of the public.

KING: Molly Ball grateful for your time, reporting and insights today. And I urge everybody read the article. It is very well written and very smartly articulated about as you know Molly, challenges for the Republicans and that cloud, that cloud they're not sure how to get out from under it. I very much appreciate your time.

And - top of the hour waiting now for a very important briefing at the Biden White House. The Press Secretary Jen Psaki, and one of the economic, top economic aids of the president will detail some of these new executive actions, the new president is trying to take today to give a boost to the economy that Coronavirus impacted the economy.

Some executive actions in part because the president wants to act quickly, in part because he understands there is a very uncertain climate in the congress right now for many of his initiatives. And word today that the impeachment trial could begin as early as next week only adds to that.

Let's continue our conversation. Our Chief Political Correspondent Dana Bash is with us, and also Rachael Bade a Congressional Correspondent for Politico. Rachael let me start with you. When Chuck Schumer came to the floor this morning and said I spoke to speaker Pelosi, she is sending it over on Monday.

That would mean if that delivery holds, if the Senate goes either on completely into trial mode or mostly into trial mode next week, is that certain, or is it part of this Schumer McConnell negotiation of organizing the Senate? And it's a play by Democrats to say, Mitch McConnell, we better work this out or yes, we're going to have an impeachment trial next week.

RACHAEL BADE, REPORTER POLITICO: It looks like the latter John. Basically, that said like sort of a ticking time clock, right. They have until Monday, basically to come up with a deal about how they want sort of conduct this trial.