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Trump Pressured DOJ To File Case With Supreme Court; Impeachment Article To Be Delivered To Senate Tomorrow; Police Officer Drives Through Crowd, Injuring At Least One Person; New York State Surpasses 34,000 Coronavirus Deaths; U.S. Surpasses 25 Million Total Coronavirus Cases; New IHME Model Projects 569,000 COVID-19 Deaths By May. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired January 24, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:24]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Sunday.

I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

We begin this hour with the stage set for the second impeachment trial of Donald J. Trump. Tomorrow House Democrats will ceremoniously walk over the article of impeachment to the U.S. Senate. And the trial is set to start the week of February 8.

This as we learn a new stunning report about Trump's desperate efforts to invalidate President Joe Biden's election victory. "The Wall Street Journal" reporting today that Trump pressured the Justice Department to file a case with the U.S. Supreme Court to overturn the election that Trump lost.

Meanwhile, President Biden will be in his first full week in office facing unprecedented challenges as the U.S. surpasses the grim milestone of 25 million COVID cases.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

XAVIER BECERRA, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY DESIGNATE: I believe President Biden has made it very clear. The plane is in a nosedive and we have to pull it up. And you're not going to do that overnight, but we're going to pull it up. We have to pull it up. Failure is not an option here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So what is the plan to succeed? We'll have that in just a moment.

But first, the latest bombshell report showing just how far former President Trump was willing to go to overturn his election loss. This coming one day after we learned Trump tried to fire the acting attorney general Jeffrey Rosen if he didn't assist in overturning Biden's election win in Georgia.

Let's bring in CNN crime and justice correspondent Shimon Prokupecz. So Shimon, what more can you tell us about this reported effort by Trump to overturn the will of the voters?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And just continued examples of how the president -- the former president would try to use the Department of Justice for political gain. What "The Wall Street Journal" is reporting that in the final few weeks of his term as president, that Trump tried to get the Justice Department to file a lawsuit with the Supreme Court, and in essence, to try and overturn the election.

The attorney general at the time William Barr, the deputy attorney general who became the acting attorney general Jeffrey Rosen and then the solicitor general at the time, a man by the name Jeffrey Wall (ph) all refused to do that. They all refused to take the case to the Supreme Court, arguing that they had no legal standing. There was nothing for them to argue.

And also "The Wall Street Journal" notes that even the president's own lawyers, the White House counsel team, also didn't agree with this move by the president.

But again Fred, of course, this all highlights how the former president attempted to use the Justice Department for his political gain.

WHITFIELD: And then, Shimon, you know, there is more momentum in this investigation of the former president and the lengths that he was willing to go to undermine this free and fair election. What did the Senate Majority Leader Schumer say?

PROKUPECZ: Right. In light of the reports first reported by "The New York Times" of the former president trying to fire the acting attorney general Jeffrey Rosen, and then of course, this news from "The Wall Street Journal", Senator Schumer there, the Democratic leader, is calling for the Department of Justice inspector general to launch an investigation.

Here's what the Democratic leader said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: What happened was just despicable. For the president to try and get an attorney general who will just totally lie about the results of the election.

So I have asked for the inspector general to investigate what happened, and then we will follow up on that. The inspector general, I believe, he hasn't communicated to us, but I have good reason to believe he will go forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PROKUPECZ: Of course, Fred, this all comes -- as all this comes to light, what more is there that we don't know about that went on at the Department of Justice? That is a big question.

And the other thing, of course, that a lot of people are talking about is whether or not these efforts by the former president now somehow become part of the impeachment trial.

WHITFIELD: All right. We shall see. Thank you so much, Shimon Prokupecz. Appreciate that.

All right. So the U.S. Senate is set to hold their impeachment trial for the former president February 9th. And tomorrow the House will walk over the article of impeachment to the Senate, charging Donald Trump with incitement of insurrection for his role in that Capitol riot. And this will be the first time a former president will face an impeachment trial after leaving office.

And today one GOP senator made the case that the trial is constitutional.

[14:04:58]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): The preponderance of the legal opinion is that an impeachment trial after someone has left office is constitutional. I believe that's the case.

I'll, of course, hear what the lawyers have to say for each side, but I think it's pretty clear that the effort is constitutional.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. Let's bring in Joe Johns now on Capitol Hill. So Joe, any indication that Republican senators support this effort to convict the former president in this upcoming trial?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Fred, everything I've heard and seen suggest probably not, but that there is still a lot of time for some soul-searching.

This is really just the tip of the iceberg, what's going to happen tomorrow when those impeachment managers -- nine impeachment managers walk over from the House of Representatives to the United States Senate to deliver and present that one article of impeachment.

It's only four pages long, short and sweet. It does charge the president with incitement of insurrection. And also points to the provision in the 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution which disqualifies anyone who has engaged in an incitement or rebellion against the United States from holding office under the federal government.

And that is what Democrats say is the point. That's why they say they're going through this in the midst of the Biden first 100 days, his COVID plan, his nominees and all the things he has to deal with. They say they need accountability on this issue, and they need to disqualify Donald Trump from running for future office. But that is going to require 17 Republicans to vote in favor of the removal of the president. Not clear at all that they're going to move to convict, at least at this stage.

A lot of talk this morning on the Sunday morning shows. Here's a sampling of the pros and cons. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): We got to do everything. And this is not, you don't have the time to sit around weeks on impeachment and not get vaccines into the arms of people. You don't have time to worry about vaccines and not deal with the fact the children in America are going hungry.

We have to break through this old approach that the Senate takes years and years to do anything. We got a crisis right now. We can chew bubble gum and walk at the same time. The American people are hurting and they want us to act.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): First of all, I think the trial is stupid. I think it's counterproductive. We already have a flaming fire in this country and it's like taking a bunch of gasoline and pouring it on top the fire.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: So here's the schedule as we have it. That article goes on display or exhibit tomorrow in the United States Senate. After that a summons will be issued to the president the very next day, and the president's response is due in a week on February 2nd, along with the House managers' pre-trial brief. One week later the trial begins.

Back to you.

WHITFIELD: Ok, Joe. And again, you said with a conviction you need the 17 Republican senators, that along with all Democrats, a two-thirds majority in order to convict the president.

Thanks so much, Joe Johns.

All right. Now to the pandemic and yet another horrific milestone. The U.S. exceeded 25 million cases today. This as the Biden administration is getting ready to hold a call with a bipartisan group of senators on its $1.9 trillion COVID relief bill.

Arlette Saenz is at the White House for us. So Arlette, this call about to happen in about an hour or so. What is the White House hoping to accomplish at this meeting?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, this call is essentially the latest push from the Biden administration to try to get bipartisan sign-on into that $1.9 trillion COVID relief package.

Brian Dietz, who is the director of the National Economic Council, will be holding this phone call or Zoom call, potentially, with a group of about 16 senators. It includes Republicans and Democrats, Republicans like Senator Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski and Mitt Romney. And then on the Democratic side, you have independent Senator Angus King as well as Senator Joe Manchin participating.

And this comes as there has been some Republican skepticism out there over passing another COVID relief package so soon after they passed that $900 billion package at the end of last year.

But the president has made clear that he wants to ensure that there is bipartisan support for the bill that he is passing. That is his preference. And that is what White House officials are trying to work- through through calls like this and others that are happening behind the scenes.

But in addition to this COVID relief package up on Capitol Hill, the Biden administration is also tackling the vaccination process. And one thing that White House officials say will be different under this administration is more participation and involvement from the federal government.

[14:09:58]

SAENZ: And take a listen to Biden's nominee for HHS secretary, Xavier Becerra, who spoke with our colleague Dana Bash earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: When will anyone who wants a vaccine be able get one?

BECERRA: Well, that a matter of making sure we're coordinating with the states because it's not the federal government that's putting the vaccine in the arm. But we are trying to provide it, we're providing the resources and the help to make it happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: And Becerra would not offer a timeline for when the majority of vaccines would be available to the majority of Americans despite our colleague Dana Bash pressing him multiple times on that issue.

But that is a big question that people are wondering when they will be able to get this vaccine for now. The Biden administration is not giving that kind of timeline. They said they want 100 million shots in the first hundred days, but there are still elements of this plan that are coming together.

And what the Biden administration has tried to caution is some patience, as they're saying it will take time to implement their policies, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Our Arlette Saenz at the White House, thank you so much for that.

And more on the pandemic coming up, including shocking comments from Dr. Deborah Birx, who says someone fed President Trump unofficial coronavirus data. The evidence she discovered while working at the White House.

Plus a wild scene caught on camera. Why did a police officer drive straight into a crowd? Find out what happened before that incident.

And then later, a rock and roll legend trying to heal the nation.

(MUSIC)

WHITFIELD: Powerful song, John Fogerty joining me live to talk about this new tune.

[14:11:55]

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WHITFIELD: Investigators in Tacoma, Washington are trying to determine why a police officer drove his car through a crowd of people last night. The police department says officers were trying to clear the crowd from a downtown street when the incident happened. And I do want to warn you that the video is very disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get those people --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh. Oh, my God. Holy (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Oh my God.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Run.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: CNN's Camila Bernal is in Tacoma. So where does this investigation stand right now?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Fred, that video first is just heart-stopping. What we know is that this is now an independent investigation that the county is going to do. There is a special team of people that will be focused on all of this. And I do want to explain exactly what happened.

It was about 6:20 p.m. last night at this intersection here behind me, and you can see it on the social media videos. Cars were racing, they were doing donuts here at the intersection behind me. You can still see those skid marks where I am right now.

And so officers were called to this area, and that's when, according to police, that patrol car was surrounded by people. And police saying that they started hitting the vehicle and that that officer feared for his life. He tried to back up, but that did not work, so instead he accelerated, moving forward, and that's when you can see in that video, that's when it's difficult to watch because you see that vehicle essentially bouncing over something. And then you see the back tires of the patrol car running over at least one person.

There were witnesses here who watched and saw exactly what happened. They're concerned. And I do want you to listen to how they're describing it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was literally so crazy. Like, he had tire marks all over his body, belly out. His shoes were off. Honestly, it was like something out of a movie.

People started like going to the cop -- cop cars. They're like yelling at them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: Now, the interim police chief, Mike Ake (ph), did put out a statement and he said he's concerned that our department is experiencing another of use of deadly force incident. He says he sends his thoughts to anyone that was injured in the event. And he's committed to the full cooperation of the department in this investigation.

Of course, that is the investigation that the county will be in charge of. The local newspaper reporting that that officer has been put on leave.

But the community here has a lot of questions that need to be answered. They're planning a protest, and of course, they want to know exactly why that officer ran over at least one person, Fred.

WHITFIELD: And then Camilla, he heard the one young man describe the injuries of at least one person, but I mean how, how are people doing. Was someone sent to the hospital, more than one? I mean it's just -- it's hard to envision that and think that people just walked away.

BERNAL: It's so hard to envision that. And what police are saying is that that officer drove out of the intersection and called for medical help right away. But a lot of those witnesses did say that it took some time to get help.

We know that that person was taken to the hospital, but we don't know specifically in what condition that person is at the moment. The interim police chief describing it as a deadly force -- use of force, and so of course, we're waiting to hear exactly how that person is doing, and if there's anyone else that was injured.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Very disturbing to watch, indeed. Camila Bernal, thank you so much in Tacoma, Washington.

All right. Coming up, 25 million cases and counting as the United States hits a new coronavirus record. The U.K. variant is spreading across this country, but is it more deadly?

[14:20:00]

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WHITFIELD: Welcome back.

The United States has now recorded more than 25 million total coronavirus cases since the start of the pandemic.

President Biden now asking the public for patience as the nation scrambles to get the vaccination efforts up to speed. This as the University of Colorado Health System hosts a mass vaccination even aimed at administering the shots to a thousand people at Coors Field in Denver.

[14:24:54]

CNN's Paul Vercammen is in Los Angeles where the vaccine supply has dwindled.

Let's also begin with CNN's Evan McMorris-Santoro in New York which has just surpassed 34,000 rather deaths according to the state health department. Evan, what more are you learning?

EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Fred.

Officials announced that 109 more New Yorkers died due to complications of COVID-19 yesterday bringing that total death toll here in that state to just over 34,000. It's a very scary number and one that shows just how ongoing this pandemic is.

In a statement the governor said it shows that New Yorkers need to keep the pressure on trying to keep this pandemic from spreading.

And there's more to it than that. If you look at the map of where the cases are in the state, you see the hardest hit areas still remain in the city and some of those counties just outside the city where they've been hit this entire time with this pandemic.

So it's not just that that number puts pressure on New Yorkers to keep fighting to keep the pandemic in check. It also puts pressure on that vaccine program.

Which is why I'm here at Citifield where the Mets play. It is a place that city officials say can become a vaccine hub when they have enough vaccine to get out. Right now, they're looking for more supplies so they can start putting those vaccines in people's arms as quickly as possible and try to win that race against that death toll, Fred.

WHITFIELD: And then Paul there in Los Angeles, pretty horrifying stories, you know, coming out of southern California on so many fronts. Long lines to get vaccinated, few openings for the shots on top of the skyrocketing death toll.

So how are people managing? PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They are managing as best they can. But it is just absolutely stunning to crunch these numbers every day.

And the latest out of Los Angeles County -- 269 deaths and now that pushes the total number of deaths in the county over 15,000. But this is what's unfathomable. One-third of those deaths, 5,000, have been since December 30th. All of this is putting pressure on hospitals and funeral homes.

In Boyle Heights, a very, very hard hit neighborhood, the Bagues Mortuary. It's been around for 90 years. They're adding employees, they've gone to a 24-hour answering service. They're having viewings outside only. For one of the owners. This is a daily dose of stress.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER BAGUES, BAGUES MORTUARY: It's been really hard turning people away, especially when they're upset and you have to tell them that, you know, I can put you on a wait list and, you know, we'll get to you when your number comes up, which is -- I don't think -- that's unheard of in our industry.

I've been doing it 25 years, and I've never had this happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERCAMMEN: So to try to reduce the death toll, they're putting shots in arms at places such as the Forum. They're hoping to vaccinate 2,400 people a day. But one county official saying at this rate, they'll still be administering shots into 2022.

Things are just going so slowly with the vaccine rollout in southern California.

WHITFIELD: Wow, that is extraordinary images. It really is something.

All right. Paul Vercammen, Evan McMorris-Santoro -- thank you so much.

All right. Let's discuss now with Dr. Richina Bicette, an emergency medicine physician and the medical director at the Baylor College of Medicine.

Doctor, just looking at those images out of Los Angels. Number one, the long lines of cars, you know, for vaccination. And then to see the volume of people getting, you know, a shot in the arm and then to hear that you have to have a wait list, you know, at a mortuary.

I mean The Biden administration is promising things will get better. How hopeful are you that it will?

DR. RICHINA BICETTE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: I'm quite hopeful that things will get better, Fred. Honestly, I feel like right now the only way we can go is up from here.

I do commend President Biden for trying to really take the reins and take control of this pandemic, but he's putting a lot of pieces into places that I think we've been missing for the last year that should hopefully help us to combat this pandemic.

He's really, really trying to create a centralized federal response to the pandemic, which is what we've been missing for the last year.

WHITFIELD: Already, you know, the Health and Human Services secretary choice for Biden has said, you know, this is not America at its best, but you know, remain hopeful, particularly within the first 100 days, 100 million shots in the arms.

You know, we have now crossed 25 million total cases in the U.S. A new model from the University of Washington is projecting that 569,000 Americans will have died of coronavirus by May 1st. What do you think? How do you digest that number?

[14:30:01]

DR. BICETTE: I mean, when we have 4,000 people dying per day, it's easy to see where they got that staggering number from.

My hope though is that we continue to increase the rate of vaccinations, as we have been over the last couple of weeks and that we hopefully will start to see more people begin to wear masks and comply with the mask mandates that are being put into place. We now have a new mask mandate in all federal several facilities, and I'm expecting that there will be more mask mandates coming down from there, and hopefully we can stop things before that number from gets to be staggeringly high, almost 600,000.

WHITFIELD: And the CDC is now reviewing data coming from British scientists that suggests that coronavirus variant first identified in the U.K. could be more deadly after all.

Listen to what Dr. Anthony Fauci had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER ON CORONAVIRUS TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: So the most recent data is in accord with what the Brits are saying. We want to look at the data ourselves, but we have every reason to believe them. They're a very competent group. So we need to assume now that what has been circulating dominantly in the U.K. does have a certain degree of increase in what we call virulence, mainly the power of the virus to cause more damage, including death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So, I know scientists, everyone is learning new stuff all the time about the coronavirus. It's been that way, right, for the world in the past year. But then now to hear after first hearing, well, it doesn't appear that it's going to be deadlier and it will probably respond well to the current vaccine out there, it's just that it's more transmissible. Well, now, we're hearing that it actually could do more damage. What do we do with that information?

BICETTE: I still think there is more data that we need to look at. The thing about Britain is that they have been very, very on top of genetic sequencing of these coronavirus variants. They are top ten in the world in terms of countries that have actually done genetic sequencing of COVID compared to the United States, we're at number 43 on that list. So if they're looking at thousands and thousands of cases and then comparing that death rate to the death rate of the prior coronavirus variant, as Dr. Fauci said, we have no reason not to believe what they're saying.

The thing is, Fred, right now, we're in a race against time. Because as this virus continues to transmit from person to person, there is more risk that it will continue to mutate and other variants, other strains can continue to pop up. We need to get control of this pandemic and we need to get people vaccinated so that we can achieve herd immunity to help combat whatever new variants may be potentially coming in the future.

WHITFIELD: And even with those grim realities that you're underscoring, you still remain hopeful that at least this nation, and perhaps even globally, we all collectively can get a handle of this?

BICETTE: I know that we can get a handle of this, Fred. I do think that, you know, we mishandled things in the beginning and that was the kiss of death that essentially sealed our fate. We had the luxury of time on our side. From the time that coronavirus initially appeared in December, we didn't have our first case in the United States until mid-January.

We had time to get ready. We had time to shut our borders. We had time to ramp up testing and PPE, but we didn't do those things, and that's why the United States is number one on the list in terms of global cases, number one on the list in terms of global deaths.

You look at places like China, where the virus first started, they have had under 100,000 cases. Their neighboring countries, Singapore, Taiwan, low case numbers. Australia has essentially almost almost eradicated coronavirus. It is possible.

WHITFIELD: Dr. Richina Bicette, thank you so much, thanks for your optimism too.

BICETTE: Thanks for having, Fred, good to see you.

WHITFIELD: Absolutely.

All right, well, still ahead, new relations about the pressure former President Trump put on the U.S. Justice Department in his final days in office to overturn his loss.

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[14:35:00]

WHITFIELD: All right. Seemingly, every day, we learn new details about the lengths Donald Trump went to try and overturn his election loss and hold on to the presidency. A former administration official now telling The Wall Street Journal, quote, he wanted us, the United States, to sue one or more of the states directly in the Supreme Court. They went on to say, the pressure got really intense.

So let's bring in John Dean who served as White House counsel during the impeachment of President Nixon and is now a CNN Contributor. Good to see you, John.

So, how will this kind of reporting, in your view, factor into this impeachment trial?

JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it's hard to tell. We were all curious when William Barr, the attorney general, resigned mid-December and said in his obsequious resignation letter that the charges of fraud would be examined by the Department of Justice. We didn't know if the people who were replacing him at the top would or would not do that. Well, this reporting appears that Trump tried to roll over them, but they held steady.

I think this is part of his state of mind. It's going to show the Senate during a trial that he was hell-bent, but he failed. He failed in this instance and like he did in Georgia in the effort to bend Georgia officials to his will also. Those are state of mind.

WHITFIELD: And then this weekend, more reporting on how a Justice Department lawyer conspired with the former president to try to explain the acting attorney general and then use the department overturn the election results in Georgia.

[14:40:01]

That's separate from what you were describing with the secretary of state in Georgia. I mean, all these stories could be considerable impeachable on their own, but these articles of impeachment that's going to be marched to the Senate tomorrow is about inciting insurrection. Do you see how all of these elements will be folded into or embolden that article?

DEAN: We still don't know the rules for the trial in the Senate. They haven't been announced yet. They haven't even gotten the articles over. That's going to happen on Monday, we believe. So that will fold out as to what will and will what not go into the trial. But it's the kind of information, again, where Trump is showing his disposition.

And the fact that he would collude with a middle-level Department of Justice attorney, and that's who Mr. Clark was and is, is really stunning, and that they would try to roll over the acting attorney general who was in the Department of Justice. It didn't work again. But it certainly shows that Trump is willing to go at any lengths.

WHITFIELD: Yes. I mean, it demonstrates the abuse of power, right? And even if you're inciting insurrection, that too is an element -- abuse of power. So there is a unique dynamic at play here, particularly once it gets to the Senate.

The victims of Trump's incitement, members of Congress are also the ones who are trying to hold him accountable. I mean, listen to Congresswoman Madeleine Dean described what she experienced.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MADELEINE DEAN (D-PA): I was there when they said, sit down, prepare to kneel or lie on the floor, take out your gas masks, now put your gas masks on. I was there as the pounding on the doors began and the piercing of the doors on the floor of the House took place. This was a terrifying moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So, to be both victim and juror, that makes this, too, very unique.

DEAN: It does, indeed. The managers have firsthand. We don't know how much of the Senate was actually near the chamber when they started attacking the chamber. I think they got the Senate out faster than the House members, but they certainly have seen a lot of footage on it since, Fred, so they know exactly what went on. So they're unique in the trial.

One of the things on the trial that troubles me is some of the insurrectionists, if you will, those who encouraged Trump's big lie, are sitting on that jury. And I don't think they're going to want to dispose of Trump because they're part and party of what he's about.

WHITFIELD: Right. And more still has to be revealed about who some of those people are. I mean, there are allegations of at least a couple names we know of, but there might be more. John Dean, good to see you. Thanks so much.

DEAN: Yes.

WHITFIELD: Excellent.

DEAN: Thank you, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, decades after his music became a call for change in America, rock legend John Fogerty has a new story to tell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN FOGERTY, FORMER MEMBER, CREEDENCE CLEARWATER REVIVAL: Out on the street, on your neck with a knee, all the people are crying your last words, I can't breathe.

And a white judge say that there been no crime here today. Weeping in the Promised Land.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Boy, does it make you think, from the pandemic to the Black Lives Matter movement, a new song for a new moment in America. Singer/songwriter John Fogerty join me live, next. You do not want to miss it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:45:00]

WHITFIELD: A real giant of American storytelling, rock legend John Fogerty has spent a lifetime writing about issues of social justice.

Proud Mary, you've heard a lot of versions from so many different artists, but nothing like his. So, from his early days racking up hits with Creedence Clearwater Revival, he has just released a powerful new song that deals with racial injustice, the devastating effects pandemic and healing a broken nation. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FOGERTY: Water in new well been poisoned with lie weeping in the Promised Land.

Satan's dark angels are falling from the sky weeping in the Promised Land.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Really nice and soothing, right? These days, the rock and roll hall of famer performs many of his classic songs with his own children as well. We're going to talk about that as well. John Fogerty joining me right now, there he is.

Hey, how are you doing? How are you feeling today? That backdrop is glorious.

FOGERTY: Hi, Fred. Doing fine, how are you?

WHITFIELD: I'm doing great. I can't wait to talk to you about this and where it came from.

[14:50:00]

I mean, I love your music and I love the video that you've attached to it and how it opens up with the National Cathedral and the chimes. I mean, that's close to my heart in Washington, D.C. And then you sweep across the country, the visual in the video so powerful, the words are piercing. So was there a moment or a sight that inspired to write this song?

FOGERTY: I would say, really, all of the events of last summer, certainly the murder of George Floyd and they way everybody took to the streets immediately. That was certainly the inspiration for that portion of the song, but the song also deals with the pandemic and especially our first responders, particularly the nurses.

WHITFIELD: And that's touching. You show video, and your words correspond, with the hands on the glass, you know, the exasperation of first responders. I want people to hear a little more at the top of your song, you're summing up a really hard year with a leader that acts kinglike. Do I interpret that correctly?

All right, we're going to listen to -- yes, yes, go ahead.

FOGERTY: All right, you go ahead.

WHITFIELD: You make mention of the pharaoh, so I'm just seeing the parallels of the kinglike nature, and you're talking about the former president without using his name.

So we're hearing it there a bit, and in your song, so that people can understand, you say weeping in the Promised Land, a fork-tongued pharaoh, behold comes to speak, weeping in the Promised Land, hissing and spewing its power that he seeks. What do you want people to understand about how you threaded these words or these pictures and the imagery?

FOGERTY: This is certainly partly certainly one of the hardest songs for me to ever get completed. It really made me fight for it. All of us songwriters do try to say what we're saying in the best way possible, and for me, this one was very elusive for a long time. But I would go out every morning and I seemed to want to be out in nature to try and understand the words I was trying to say.

I think the hard part was dealing in biblical terms here. I wrote the title down many years ago in my songwriting book, but -- and I had even written a couple of, let's say, prior versions of songs that were not nearly like this song. And they were always unsatisfactory. So this past summer, the title really seemed to be describing what was going on.

And there was a moment I realized if I accepted the mission, it was going to be really difficult, and it was. You just try to use your words in the most economical way and the simplest way, and yet the most powerful and direct way.

Our former president did act pretty much like a pharaoh at times, and, obviously, he seemed to be very interested in holding onto power. And so that's an element in the song, of course.

WHITFIELD: Well, powerful and direct, you are, but then, you know, the gospel that you hear in there really evokes a feeling of hopefulness. What are you hoping the mission of this song will be, how it might be utilized?

FOGERTY: Well, I think the first important thing you notice, I've written some other controversial protest songs like Fortunate Son, and in that one, I'm really yelling and screaming at the powers that be. This was many years ago during the Vietnam era and the draft and those sort of things, all of which I was a part of. Anyway, now, in this time, this song is very much about trying to lower the temperature, I think, to get people to heal, to get us all to talk to each other and reflect on, you know, we're all Americans.

And I really want that to come through. I think if we calm down and listen to each other, we'll -- we have a lot better chance of hearing and deciding what it is we have in common and the way the country should go for the best of all of us.

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WHITFIELD: It's very hopeful, and thank you for that and congratulations.

So, talk to me, too, about how your jam sessions and people, you know, covet your jam sessions that you have, whether it's from, you know, someone with ZZ Top and beyond. But you are having jam sessions now with your kids. Let's take a listen and tell me what that's been like.

FOGERTY: Well, really, last summer, I think when the lockdown first started, my wife suggested that I sing one of my songs, Have You Ever Seen the Rain. I didn't quite get it. She did and I didn't. There's probably 40 or 50 versions of that song on the internet. But I went ahead and did it because she's usually right. This is my beautiful wife, Julie. And it seemed to resonate.

And so her next suggestion was, well, why don't you do one of your songs with the kids? And that really seemed to strike a chord with people. So, all throughout the summer, really, usually on Friday, we started posting a version of mostly one of my songs but sometimes other people's songs too with the family band. And it was so much fun. It is so much fun.

And we've kind of discovered an act we had, you know, a musical act that was sitting right under our noses, we didn't realize it. We had so much fun doing it. So, you know, we may be taking this show on the road. That would be so much fun.

WHITFIELD: That is fun. It's fun to see, because I know a lot of artists really miss not being able to get on the road, you probably among them. But then, now, you know, you've got the satisfaction of having your band right there in your backyard with your family members. That's pretty awesome.

FOGERTY: Exactly right, and whenever we want to make music, it's there, ready to go.

WHITFIELD: We're happy that you are making the music. John Fogerty, thank you so much. A great pleasure to talk to you and listen to your great talent.

FOGERTY: Thank you, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Thank you.

And we leave you with more of "Weeping in the Promised Land." We're back in a moment.

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