Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Rioter Charged With Threatening To Assassinate Ocasio-Cortez; Trump Plotted To Fire Acting A.G. In Last-Ditch Effort To Overturn Election Loss; Remembering Larry King; The Pain Of Working On The Pandemic's Frontlines; Biden Phones World Leaders To Discuss Policy Changes; Privacy Concerns Over Contact Tracing In Singapore; Chinese Foreign Ministry: Trump Officials Were "Anti-China"; Remembering Hank Aaron. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired January 24, 2021 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[00:00:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello, everyone, and welcome to Studio 7 here at CNN Center in Atlanta. I am Michael Holmes. Appreciate your company.
Coming up here on CNN NEWSROOM, we are learning new details about how Donald Trump tried to use the Justice Department to overturn the election.
Also, as the effort to ramp up vaccinations begins in the U.S., we'll speak to a doctor on the front lines in Los Angeles.
And remembering the one and only Larry King, a legend here at CNN but also for the world of broadcasting.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
HOLMES: Now the question about Richard Nixon, of course, was, what did he know and when did he know it?
The question about Donald Trump could be, what else did he do and when will we know it?
New bombshells emerging about the lengths Trump allegedly went to, hoping to keep his grip on power. "The Wall Street Journal" reports that he pushed the Justice Department to ask the Supreme Court to invalidate Joe Biden's election victory.
And sources telling CNN that Trump planned to fire his acting attorney general and replace him with someone willing to go along with the false claims about election fraud in Georgia.
Trump's relentless attacks on the election led, of course, to the deadly Capitol riot and his second impeachment. Now we've also learned disturbing new details about that insurrection.
A Texas man accused of taking part is now charged with threatening to kill Democratic congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and a Capitol Police officer.
So one question is this, how will this latest example of Donald Trump's alleged post-election scheming affect his forthcoming impeachment trial?
We already know the top Senate Democrat Chuck Schumer is calling for a whole new investigation. CNN's Ryan Nobles with the latest from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The impeachment trial of former president Donald Trump is now beginning to take shape here on Capitol Hill. On Monday, the House will send over the articles of impeachment, starting the clock on the trial itself. On Monday the senators will be sworn in. On Tuesday they'll pick a presiding judge.
But the trial itself won't begin until February 8th. That gives the former president roughly two weeks to get his legal house in order in time for the trial to begin.
Now Republicans pushed for that. They believe that that was part of the due process that the former president should be afforded. But it also comes with an issue for president Trump because, in that time frame, more information could come out that could be damaging to his legal case.
Like for instance, this "New York Times" bombshell that came out over the weekend, that suggests the president was putting pressure on members of the Justice Department to look for examples of voter fraud that would help him overturn the election.
Now that's not directly connected to the Capitol insurrection but, remember, impeachment is not a legal argument. It is a political argument. And if there are more examples of issues that Republicans could potentially find with president Trump, that could mean that Democrats could convince the 17 necessary to cross party lines and vote to convict president Trump.
At this point it doesn't appear that there are enough of them to make that happen but we're still waiting to see how the Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell will rule on this case.
He said he wants to hear all of the arguments before making a decision. If McConnell were to break from former president Trump, there are a number of other Republicans that could follow suit -- Ryan Nobles, CNN, on Capitol Hill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Now in the leadup to that trial, authorities have been making more arrests stemming from the Capitol insurrection. And some of the people charged say they acted in support of the former president.
We've learned about one man, for example, charged after allegedly threatening to kill a House Democrat. CNN Justice correspondent Jessica Schneider with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Another major arrest connected to that January 6th Capitol attack, this time against a Texas man, accused of posting online death threats not only against Democratic congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez but also against a Capitol Police officer.
Now prosecutors say Garrett Miller of Texas tweeted, quote, "Assassinate AOC" and also said the police officer who fatally shot a female Trump supporter inside the Capito, quote, "deserves to die" and also said, won't survive long because, quote, "it's hunting season."
[00:05:00]
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Now officials say Miller participated in the Capitol attack and then posted extensively on social media before and after the attack, saying a civil war could start and that also, "next time we bring guns."
Now congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez has been very vocal in the days after the attack. She's talked about how she and other members weren't sure they'd make it out alive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ALEXANDRA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): I had a very close encounter where I thought I was going to die. It is not an exaggeration to say that many, many members of the House were nearly assassinated.
It's just not an exaggeration to say that at all. We were very lucky that things happened within certain minutes that allowed members to escape the House floor unharmed. But many of us nearly and narrowly escaped death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: This man who posted those threats against AOC is facing five federal criminal charges, including for his participation in the attack as well as the death threats.
Garrett Miller's attorney is telling CNN, his client regrets the threats and also says this, quote, "He did it in support of former president Donald Trump but he regrets his actions. He has the support of his family and a lot of the comments are viewed in context as really sort of misguided political hyperbole."
Given the political divide these days, there is a lot of hyperbole. And, of course, this is yet another suspect who said they were inspired by the president to attack the Capitol. At this point more than 120 people have been charged. Hundreds more could still be charged, as prosecutors now zero in on that next round of charges, that will likely be even more serious against those people who evaded law enforcement so far. And the charges could even include sedition and conspiracy. Those
include hefty sentences of up to 20 years in prison -- Jessica Schneider, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein is here to weigh in on all of this. He's also a senior editor at "The Atlantic."
Good to see you, Ron. We have this "New York Times" reporting, also "The Wall Street Journal" reporting, this plan to replace the acting attorney general, undo Georgia's result.
It's like the evidence of misdeeds just keeps stacking up. And, of course, talk that Mitch McConnell wants Trump gone.
What do you make of the impeachment dynamic among Republicans?
Could some of this information swing some votes?
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, certainly. But it's going to be, as Ryan said, no matter how many -- how much information there is, it's going to be hard to get the 17 votes to convict him.
So the question will be, what is the statement that is made?
And I think even more important than whether they convict him is, what do we learn through the trial?
I mean, it's pretty clear that both, in terms of the entire campaign since the election, to try to subvert the result, and also the more immediate and kind of visceral attack on the Capitol, that was the culmination of that, there is a lot still to come out.
There's a lot to learn about what Donald Trump did, about what members of his administration did and also what other Republicans in Congress may have done in terms of in some ways colluding with the attackers.
Joe Biden's instinct, he's made it pretty clear, is to look forward, not back. Understandable; he's dealing with the worst public health crisis in a century, the worst economic crisis in 90 years.
But I think most Democrats believe it will be a mistake not to fully examine the totality of what happened since the election. And there's a risk in trying to sweep it under the rug.
HOLMES: So much talk about politics, healing, unity. But there's also accountability. And that's going to be uppermost in this.
How does the desire among some Republicans to be done with Trump, along with the impact of what we've been talking about, play into, you know, Joe Biden's position?
He wants bipartisanship. Could some of that dissatisfaction with Trump help Biden?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, I think it's a very fluid situation. It's clear in the polling, at the end of the Trump presidency, that there was a bigger share of Republicans, depending on the question, between one- fifth and one-quarter of the Republicans who are deeply unhappy with everything that has happened since the election and, of course, the attack on the Capitol itself.
You might say, that's a startlingly small percentage and, in one way, of course, it is; three-quarters of Republican voters say they believe Trump's disproven claims of fraud.
But the fact is, the party could not survive a defection of that magnitude. So I think that exerts a certain amount of pressure on Republican elected officials to try to create some separation with Donald Trump.
On the other hand, you'd have to say that the initial soundings from Republicans in Congress, whether it's on the stimulus or the immigration package, really the two big legislative ideas that Biden has put forward already, have been hardly encouraging.
[00:10:00]
BROWNSTEIN: In fact, they've gone out of their way, whether it's Mitt Romney and Susan Collins on the stimulus or people like Marco Rubio and Kevin McCarthy on the immigration plan, to kind of signal that they intend to fight him tooth and nail, pretty much the way they did Obama from the beginning.
HOLMES: You mentioned this interesting point -- and I read it in your article in "The Atlantic," too, about Republican voters, this sort of alarming percentage still believe that Biden lost. But you make the point that Republicans who do accept the results are pretty uneasy about their party's tactics.
Does this present an opportunity for Democrats?
Does it give any electoral leverage or advantage in terms of picking up disaffected GOP voters?
BROWNSTEIN: Absolutely. It is an enormous political opportunity for Biden. As I said in the column, big enough to drive an Amtrak train through.
Look, if you're talking to experts in extremism, they would say justifiably the fact that three-quarters of Republican voters say they believe these discredited claims from the president is a very ominous number because it gives a pool from -- a large pool of people who believe the big lie, as our colleague Jake Tapper calls it, and are thus able to be potentially radicalized.
If you look at it from the other end, if you look at it from the point of view of a political operative and you say, somewhere between 20 percent and 25 percent, sometimes 30 percent of Republicans, depending on the question, say they do not want the party to continue down a Trumpian direction, they believe that both he and the members of Congress who objected to the results bear significant responsibility for the riot that followed.
That does provide a clear opportunity for Biden to deepen and consolidate the kinds of gains that allowed Democrats to win two Senate seats in Georgia, a state where they had not elected a senator since 2000.
What we saw in Georgia, what we saw in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, all of the key states, was Democratic gains inside the metros, particularly in those white collar inner suburbs, where a lot of those people had been voting Republican.
And those are the voters who are likely the most disenchanted with what's happening. So if Biden can convince them that he's giving them reasonable government that is not kind of veering off to the Left, there is a real opportunity for him there, no question.
HOLMES: Great analysis as always. Ron Brownstein, thank you.
BROWNSTEIN: Thanks, Michael.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: The legendary talk show host Larry King has passed away at the age of 87. Now he, of course, hosted "LARRY KING LIVE" on CNN for more than 25 years, interviewing everyone who was anyone as well as everyday people.
He retired back in 2010 after more than 6,000 episodes, though he did keep working for many more years. King's son, Chance, confirmed his dad's death Saturday morning; did not give a cause of death, however. Tributes have been pouring in nonstop, including this tweet from Bette Midler.
"He always made me feel as though I were the only person in the room."
And this from former U.S. president Bill Clinton, interviewed more than 20 times by Larry King, "He had a great sense of humor and a genuine interest in people. Farewell, my friend."
I also want to share a statement with you from CNN's founder, Ted Turner.
He says this, "Waking up to news of the passing of Larry King felt like a punch to the gut. Larry was one of my closest and dearest friends and, in my opinion, the world's greatest broadcast journalist of all time.
"If anyone asked me what are my greatest career achievements in life, one is the creation of CNN and the other is hiring Larry King. Like so many who worked with and knew Larry, he was a consummate professional, an amazing mentor to many and a good friend to all. The world has lost a true legend." Larry King interviewed heads of state, movie stars, world-class athletes but one of his most memorable was that famous conversation with Marlon Brando. CNN's Sunlen Serfaty with more on the life of this radio and television icon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Larry King spent more than a half a century as a broadcaster.
LARRY KING, FORMER CNN HOST: It's been a hell of a 50 years. I don't know how much longer I can go. But as long as I feel it, I'm going to keep going.
SERFATY (voice-over): King was born in Brooklyn, New York, in 1933 as Larry Zeigler (sic). He moved to Miami in his 20s to pursue a job in radio. He also wrote a column for a local newspaper. In 1978 he started "The Larry King Show," a late-night radio program that was eventually syndicated in hundreds of cities.
KING: Good evening. My name is Larry King and this is the premiere edition of "LARRY KING LIVE."
SERFATY (voice-over): King joined a still young all-news cable channel called CNN in 1985 and soon became the face of the struggling network. Over more than 25 years, he interviewed celebrities, politicians and newsmakers. He was known for his conversational style and for rarely becoming confrontational with guests.
[00:15:00]
SERFATY (voice-over): He was able to book the biggest names in Hollywood, from Elizabeth Taylor and Frank Sinatra to Al Pacino and Brad Pitt. He famously kissed Marlon Brando.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARLON BRANDO, ACTOR: Goodbye.
KING: Goodbye.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: I kiss my brother on the cheek and I've had friends hug me. But he's the only man ever to kiss me on the lips and I can't stop thinking about him.
SERFATY (voice-over): The NAFTA debate he moderated between Ross Perot and Al Gore was one of the highest-rated cable shows ever.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: How do you stop that without NAFTA?
(END VIDEO CLIP) SERFATY (voice-over): King brought together Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin and PLO chairman Yasser Arafat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YASSER ARAFAT, FORMER PALESTINE LIBERATION ORGANIZATION CHAIRMAN: We don't want to divide the city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SERFATY (voice-over): And he sat down with past and present American presidents, from Richard Nixon --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Let's set this straight.
Did you hate the people who criticized you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SERFATY (voice-over): -- to Barack Obama.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Do you still like this job?
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Oh, this is the best on Earth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SERFATY (voice-over): He covered live news events, from wars to elections.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Do you think you're going to cost Al Gore the election tonight, honestly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SERFATY (voice-over): Then shortly after the September 11th terrorist attacks, he brought his show to New York.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: When it comes to describing what I saw earlier this week at ground zero, I really cannot find the right words.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SERFATY (voice-over): King was married eight times, the last to Shawn Southwick. After more than 25 years at CNN, he decided to end his nightly show and only appear in specials for the network. He signed off his final regular broadcast on December 16th, 2010.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: I don't know what to say except to you, my audience, thank you. And instead of goodbye, how about so long?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:20:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
HOLMES: The United States is nearing 25 million known cases of coronavirus, this only one year since the first infection was reported here. Around 20 million vaccines have been given out in the U.S.
But many states are struggling to get the doses they need. Still, President Joe Biden pushing his goal to get 100 million vaccines administered in his first 100 days in office. California reported nearly 23,000 new cases on Saturday.
The number of people in hospitals is falling a little, as you can see there, but it's not taking the pressure off health care workers, struggling to just keep up. Now one California doctor was featured in a Vice news documentary, showing how excruciating it is to work on the front lines of this raging pandemic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JENNIFER ELLICE, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN: When people die, I usually get to tell the family to their face. And most of the time, if they're very sick, the family's there at the bedside.
I've held up notes. I've whispered in their ear. I've told them, "Your daughter loves you," "Your wife says you were the best husband, the best friend."
Just having to be a conduit for the family's love, when they can't be here, that's -- it's a lot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: And Dr. Jennifer Ellice joins me now from Los Angeles, emergency room physician.
Doctor, it was compelling, listening to you speak. COVID-19 has changed so much of the way we all live. It's impacted the way we die as well. And it's clearly hard on the families, as you've said.
It must be hard, though, on you and the other medical professionals. You said, during the Vice report, it was like a mass casualty event every day. ELLICE: Yes. Yes. Well, first of all, Michael, thank you for having
me. As hard as it is for us, it's infinitely harder obviously for my patients and their families who are going through this.
And I think that one of the tragedies of this entire pandemic has been the fact that people do come to the hospital alone and they do have to suffer and, in some cases, die alone.
As a result, you know, we do everything we can to try to help people connect with their loved ones. But that is one of the most difficult things about being a health care worker right now.
HOLMES: As we know, you're around COVID, you're surrounded by it all day every day. I'm just trying to imagine, though, the mental stretch of that. It's not like a bad day; it's been a bad year, the incessant nature of it, how it impacts your own emotional well-being.
How do you and your colleagues deal with this?
ELLICE: You know, one thing that we've tried to do is talk to each other. After this piece came out, a few nurses and clerks and staff came up to me and told me they had actually wept when they watched it, even though it's an experience they know they've lived every day for the past nine months.
But they wept, they said, because they felt that they had not been able to communicate to people in their family what they've been going through. And I do think that that's really important for us, to be able to talk to each other to get through this, because you know, this is unlike anything that we've ever experienced in our careers and in our lifetimes.
HOLMES: I know you also care deeply about the impact on patients but also their families, not just from the stress of the illness itself but also the economic, social and family impacts.
Do you think enough attention's paid to that?
ELLICE: I think it's very difficult unless you have personally suffered losing a family member to this disease or unless you personally have had to go to work and knowingly been exposed, without the benefit of masks and social distancing.
I think it's very difficult for people to understand what kind of risks that even our grocery clerks are taking.
You know, one of the things that's been most heartbreaking for me to bear witness to is that, in many cases, my patients will have already lost a family member and they're coming in terrified, because now they're ill and they're suffering some of the same symptoms they saw their father or mother go through before they died.
[00:25:00]
ELLICE: And as I said in the piece, many of my patients do not have a choice but to go out and work and be exposed. So I do think that more attention should be paid to that. But I understand that we can't stop, we can't come to a halt completely.
So you know, until we can, I would just hope that people could take every precaution possible to protect each other. HOLMES: I -- yes. I think that's obviously absolutely correct. One
thing that I see in my own life is it's not getting through to a lot of people -- and you say other family members, people in the same family suffering, dying from this.
What is your message to people, who perhaps feel, vaccines are here, I can relax a little?
ELLICE: Well, first of all, we cannot relax. One of the things about vaccines and their effectiveness, it depends very much on what portion of the population has received the vaccine.
So they work best when we have enough people who've been vaccinated that we can create a herd immunity. And the way I put it to people is, even the most effective vaccines that we have right now, 95 percent efficacy, that means 5 percent of people who are vaccinated may not mount an immune response. That's 1 out of 20.
So there are 40 doctors in my group. That means two of us might not have an immune response. These are odds you don't want to play with, on the one hand.
On the second hand we don't know for sure you that cannot transmit, even if you are immune. So we still need to take precautions. We can't relax until enough people have been vaccinated.
HOLMES: Yes. Absolutely. It's far from over. Dr. Jennifer Ellice, I really appreciate it. And thank you for what you do. I mean, people like you are what keep the rest of us alive. So thank you.
ELLICE: Thanks for having me, Michael.
HOLMES: We'll take a quick break. When we come back, President Joe Biden has begun his foreign outreach in earnest. Relationships with allies are one thing.
But how will the Biden administration deal with foes?
That's coming up.
And also, some of Larry King's greatest interviews with that unforgettable style of his as we honor his career and his legacy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, FORMER CNN HOST: Mr. President, finally, is it hard to come back to this city?
Is it hard to drive by the Watergate?
RICHARD NIXON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, I've never been in the Watergate.
KING: Never been in, even in the restaurant?
NIXON: No, no. Other people were in there, unfortunately.
KING: Was it hard for you?
NIXON: No, I don't live in the past. As a matter of fact, one of the problems older people have is when you get together and they always want to reminisce about the past. I don't do that. I like to think about the future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:30:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
HOLMES: And welcome back to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. I'm Michael Holmes. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM. And thanks for doing so.
Well, this will take some getting used to, a U.S. president who is not tweeting all weekend. Joe Biden has been spending some of his time calling other world leaders. CNN's John Harwood with the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: President Joe Biden is spending his first weekend in the White House doing some of the typical things that new presidents do, reaching out to key allies. In this case, it's all the more important, given that some of those alliances were strained under the Trump administration.
He spoke by phone with British prime minister Boris Johnson. They talked about the importance of NATO as well as climate change. Johnson has cheered the president's return to the Paris climate agreement.
He talked to the president of Mexico, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, about immigration policy. That had been a source of friction with the Trump administration as well.
Talked to Canadian prime minister Justin Trudeau about the Keystone XL pipeline. That is a point of contention with Joe Biden because Biden has revoked the permit for that pipeline. Canada favors it.
And with all three leaders, they talked about the importance of the COVID-19 pandemic.
And the broader agenda for Joe Biden, which he's trying to get early momentum, is that COVID-19 pandemic and the related economic recovery. He met with advisers at the White House today. Vice President Kamala Harris was there. They're trying to gear up momentum for that COVID relief package, $1.9
trillion, to try to get through Congress. His economic adviser, Brian Deese, is going to be talking over the weekend with 16 senators of both parties, see if they can get a bipartisan package.
If not, Democrats will try to do it through a special budget procedure with Democratic votes only. But critically important for Joe Biden to get action quickly on COVID-19 and the economic recovery -- John Harwood, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: New Zealand hadn't reported a single community transmitted case of COVID-19 in two months until now. The ministry of health says a 56-year-old woman is now in isolation after coming back from Europe.
And, of course, Europe dealing with multiple coronavirus variants, one of which was first identified in the U.K. And British prime minister Boris Johnson says it could be deadlier than previous versions. But his own National Institutes of Health director says it's still too soon to tell.
So who do we believe?
He did agree with the prime minister, though, that the variant does seem more contagious.
Meanwhile, Japan reporting its COVID-19 death toll now exceeds 5,000 people. That is counting 84 people, who lost their lives to the virus on Saturday.
Now one country that has managed COVID very, very well is Singapore. A large part of that success is due to mobile contact tracing. But privacy concerns have been raised after Singapore's government admitted that data collected can be used by police for criminal investigations. Kristie Lu Stout with the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): No lockdown in the Lion City. In Singapore, local infection rates have been close to zero for months, a factor behind its success.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Trace Together. Savor together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STOUT (voice-over): Contact tracing technology, the government's Trace Together program includes a smartphone app and a token that uses Bluetooth to gauge proximity between users, to alert them if they've been in contact with someone who tested positive for COVID-19. More than 4.2 million people or 78 percent of Singapore's population
voluntarily use the technology. In June, authorities insisted it is not a tracking device and the data is encrypted and would not be used for other purposes.
[00:35:00]
VIVIAN BALAKRISHNAN, SMART NATION MINISTER-IN-CHARGE: The only time the data leaves the phone or the device is in the unlikely event that you're diagnosed with COVID-19.
STOUT (voice-over): But that may not necessarily be the case. This month in parliament, a government minister said police can obtain Trace Together data for criminal investigations.
DESMOND TAN, SINGAPORE MINISTER OF STATE FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Singapore police force is empowered under the criminal procedure court to obtain any data and that includes the Trace Together data for criminal investigations.
STOUT (voice-over): Analysts say the backtracking on privacy undermines citizens' trust.
EUGENE TAN, SINGAPORE MANAGEMENT UNIVERSITY: I think you know that has a perhaps left an unpleasant taste in the mouths of Singaporeans. And it raises questions about whether future assurances, given by the government with regard to data collection, data use, you know, whether people will have the high level of trust and confidence.
STOUT (voice-over): Privacy concerns about the technology have been raised around the world; in South Korea, where health authorities and sometimes businesses share the whereabouts of coronavirus patients ...
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I know the exact locations this individual went to. I know the door that they used in order to get inside my local supermarket.
STOUT (voice-over): -- and in China, where photos and personal information from a Beijing COVID-19 health app were reportedly leaked and sold online.
STOUT: When the technology required to control the virus ends up undermining privacy, what should governments do?
JASON LAU, CHIEF INFORMATION SECURITY OFFICER: You need to follow the six data privacy principles. It's a collection of purpose means to make sure the information is accurate, make sure we don't retain it for a longer period of time than we need to, make sure that we use it for the purpose we're actually collecting it for, make sure we have the right type of security safeguards, ,the openness to make sure we share what we're actually doing with the actual data and also allow the people to correct the data if the data is actually not accurate.
STOUT (voice-over): Singapore has acknowledged its error in not stating that data from Trace Together is not exempt from the Criminal Procedure Code and will introduce new legislation to limit police use of such data.
It remains to be seen whether that will placate any concerns or whether, in certain countries, privacy is considered a price of tackling the pandemic -- Kristie Lu Stout, CNN, Hong Kong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Now ahead on the program we'll have much more on the life of television legend Larry King. There he is with Janet Jackson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
KING: This?
JANET JACKSON, SINGER-DANCER: This, hit your chest and push your arm out.
KING: Same arm.
JACKSON: Yes. And let that go out at the same time.
There you go.
Bring this leg in and put that hand down.
Hit your chest. And push it out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:40:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
HOLMES: After President Biden was sworn into office, the Chinese foreign ministry released a statement, calling Trump administration officials, quote, "anti-China politicians," who had undermined the relationship between the U.S. and China.
So will Mr. Biden's Asia policy improve relations with nations in the region?
With me now to discuss from Hong Kong is CNN's Will Ripley.
Good to see you, Will. I suppose something of a test, with China flying warplanes near Taiwan, what do you think, a message, part of some muscle flexing for both Taiwan and the Biden administration?
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Michael. It's the kind of muscle flexing that we have seen time and time again from China, especially when it comes to Taiwan.
On Saturday, eight bombers, four fighters, a patrol aircraft, all in Taiwanese airspace, that led the U.S. State Department to warn China not to threaten peace, stability in this region, particularly the Taiwan Strait.
Of course, China has repeatedly accused the U.S. of meddling in its affairs, saying Taiwan is essentially a renegade province that can be taken back at any time. But this is just the latest action on the part of Beijing.
Remember, they sanctioned 28 former Trump administration officials, including the most high-profile on that list, the former secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, saying good riddance to the madness of the Trump administration.
They are not using that sharp of language when they're talking about the Biden administration. They are saying that, if both countries put in effort, they perhaps can work together to try to bring relations somewhat back after hitting, arguably, the lowest level in decades.
HOLMES: Absolutely.
I mean, what's your sense of what can be expected with the broader relationship between the U.S. and China?
You know, Donald Trump ruffled feathers. There are signs, though, that the Biden administration, you know, isn't going back away from a firm line; in some ways, they're going to continue it.
RIPLEY: Especially on key issues; you have the State Department this weekend calling out China over Taiwan. You have the Biden administration saying they'll continue to pressure Beijing over suppression of the pro-democracy movement here in Hong Kong and what has been accused of genocide of the Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang.
But on other issues of shared mutual interest, Michael, like climate change, certainly trade, I mean, U.S. and China, top trading partners; China also a top trading partner for almost every other nation in this part of the world.
So they're going to try to work together. But Biden saying he's not going to go soft on those important issues, particularly human rights.
HOLMES: I also wanted to ask you, too, Donald Trump backed away, famously, from all kinds of alliances and pacts.
What about allies in the region?
What do they hope from this new administration?
RIPLEY: Well, it's no secret that you know, during the last four years, the United States has been losing ground. And even before that, here in Asia, to China. And there are countries here in the region, like Japan, like Australia, like South Korea, that would like to help the United States restore that balance; India as well.
And you've actually had very glowing, welcoming messages from, you know, the leaders of many of those countries. But then you have other countries that kind of feel like they could really get caught in the middle of two superpowers.
Look at Thailand, which relies heavily on tourism from China pre- COVID. And then the Philippines, which had its own kind of rocky relationship with the United States even before president Trump.
But in terms of the traditional allies, they're welcoming the Biden administration and hopeful for a return to stability. China, of course, going pretty hawkish as usual. And still no official welcome from North Korea, Michael, although they have been parading their latest missiles around. So maybe the president will get another kind of welcome down the road.
HOLMES: Exactly. And you'll be there to cover it. Will Ripley in Hong Kong. Good to see you, my friend. Thanks.
After a quick break, remembering a legend. Talk show host Larry King passing away at the age of 87. His legacy, though, will live on.
[00:45:00]
HOLMES: A soft voice, brilliant conversations and those catchy suspenders. Here's a look back at his first show on CNN, June 1985.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Good evening. My name is Larry King and this is the premiere edition of "LARRY KING LIVE." Every night at this time we'll be here for one hour. We're going to meet fascinating people from all walks of life. I'll ask them questions, we'll take some calls. I hope you enjoy this alternative to prime time programming rather than murder, mayhem, sex, violence. We'll bring you all of those but disguised.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: But slowly and steadily, Hank Aaron built a remarkable career, 23 years. And he broke Babe Ruth's record. And he's an executive with the Atlanta Braves and has been for a long time. And he has a new autobiography out, called "I Had a Hammer."
I remember once you telling me that you did your talking about your bat and this was at the time you were still playing and had just retired.
Why didn't you talk about this more then?
HANK AARON, ATLANTA BRAVES HALL OF FAMER: I did, Larry, I did. I think -- I don't think that it was talked about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[00:50:00]
HOLMES: That was Larry King there, interviewing the baseball great, Hank Aaron, back in 1991. Both of those all-time greats, of course, passed away, just hours apart.
Now Larry hosted his talk show here on CNN for more than 25 years, always bringing out the best in his guests, whether they were celebrities or ordinary people calling in.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Tom Johnson is the former president of CNN. He actually hired me. He joins me from Atlanta.
Good to see you, Tom.
Christiane Amanpour said that, when it comes to Larry King, his name is synonymous with CNN. He was vital to the network. She said everyone wanted to be on "LARRY KING LIVE."
Why do you think that was?
You were involved with Larry and the team every day.
TOM JOHNSON, FORMER CNN PRESIDENT: It was the only show in the network that reported to me daily. So I would have contact with his executive producer, particularly in the later years, with Wendy Walker. That could be Monday through weekends.
But Larry always -- he cared about the guest. It was not about Larry, it was about the guest. And Larry -- it was a comfort level with Larry; although he could ask spontaneously very serious questions and get answers.
I mean, the best example was Ross Perot, when he had him on the air. And he just continued to persist when he got to Ross.
And finally Ross said, well, yes, I will run for President of the United States if I can get the American public to show that they would support me.
But it was just an example of Larry. But also there was a curiosity in Larry's approach to his work. I mean, there was just a real kindness, generosity. And we had many people who would call.
And I would get the calls to me, asking if they could appear. Of course, there were agents, trying to get their talent on the air; there were managers, trying to get celebrities on the air. That was really the job of the team led by Wendy and others.
But in the 11.5 years the show reported to me, I never had a single fight or single major disagreement with Wendy or with Larry. And I must tell you, having several other shows that I had to deal with at times, I loved it. HOLMES: I've got to say, following on from what you said, the thing I
always found, he had such a genuineness with the guests.
He relaxed them into candor, if you can put it that way, lulled them into being candid without them really knowing, didn't he?
JOHNSON: Yes, and also he could shift right into breaking news. For example, the night the world was searching for O.J. Simpson after the episode when his wife and another had been found slain, I mean, we broke into "LARRY KING LIVE" after our helicopters and others saw the white Bronco with O.J. in it.
And Larry shifted right out of his other mode into this breaking news mode and carried the show right on through.
And I loved just sort of the flexibility. You knew that Larry cared and cared deeply. He was a people person in virtually every way. And I should tell you, when Larry retired, I just didn't know quite what would happen to CNN.
Well, luckily, CNN has continued to flourish. But Larry is a friend of so many of us. Well beyond just the professional side was the friendship that we developed.
HOLMES: And you know, Ted Turner who started CNN, he actually said one of the two greatest things he did was start CNN and the other one was hire Larry King. I mean, that speaks to his impact.
And I wanted to ask you too, because, tragically, Larry's death follows the death the day before of someone else I know that you respected greatly, Atlanta icon Hank Aaron, who Ted also hired.
JOHNSON: We lost two giants in a 24-hour period of time, Larry King and Henry Aaron. Henry Aaron, among all the athletes of the 20th century, he always will rank number one in my own record book.
He was a superstar with an unblemished record as far as his character and his integrity. He accomplished that feat of breaking Babe Ruth's home run record without the use of performance-enhancing drugs. He did it while racists threatened his life and the life of his family.
I mean, he and his magnificent wife, Billye, they created a foundation to help young people chase their own dreams, as Henry had.
[00:55:00]
JOHNSON: It's called Chasing the Dream Foundation. But if there was a finer human being on this planet than Larry and Henry Aaron, I don't know who they were. Two people who cared and cared deeply about this planet and about their friends.
HOLMES: Just to get back to Larry, just to finish off, when you think about Larry King, he was a radio guy. He used to lean forward. You know, he didn't look like a TV guy. But that's why it worked, in many ways.
Do you think a Larry King show would work today or does it need Larry King?
JOHNSON: I think it would need Larry King. But a show like that could work today, I just think it would take a personality that would bring many of the qualities. Of course, it would be different. But of course, I think it could work today.
There are others who disagree with me on that. But many people didn't think Larry King would work and it did. I mean, there are many people didn't think CNN itself would work and it did or how CNN International flourished all over the world.
So yes, I think it could work. And with the right executive producer, we could very well have another Larry King.
HOLMES: Tom Johnson, you're a big part of it as well, a big part of a lot of our lives here at CNN. A pleasure to see you. I'm sorry that it's not for better news.
JOHNSON: Michael, thank you. You're one of my very best hires and I thank you for the opportunity to be on tonight.
HOLMES: You're very kind, thank you, Tom.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Larry King, indeed a treasure. We're so grateful he was part of the CNN family for those 25 years.
Thanks for watching CNN NEWSROOM and spending part of your day with me. For our international viewers, "QUEST'S WORLD OF WONDER" is next. For those in the U.S., you're lucky. I'll be back with more news in a moment.
