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Fauci: Assume U.K. Variant Can Cause More Damage, Including Death; Birx Denies Being "Trump Apologist" In Reputation Rehab Tour; Riot Suspect's Brother Was Michelle Obama's Secret Service Chief. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired January 25, 2021 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Not because we're Republicans, but because the nation needs to know how these people died, what the administration actually knew, and were they misled by the administration eight weeks before an election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: He said, if it's too much to Congress for ask for accountability, god help us all.
Well, this all has nothing to do with accountability and it is weak to pretend it does.
Next, new details about one of the rioters accuses of attacking police in the capitol riots. His own brother is a Secret Service agent who used to protect Michelle Obama.
Plus, Dr. Deborah Birx, a former member of the White House Coronavirus Task Force, becomes the latest Trump official trying to change the narrative about her role in the disastrous pandemic response. See how her story has changed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:35:18]
KEILAR: New evidence suggests the U.K. variant of coronavirus may have a higher death rate than other variants, and it's also easier to spread. That has U.S. health officials on alert.
In an interview this morning, the president's chief medical adviser, Dr. Anthony Fauci, talked about the data.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: When they looked at it, it did not look like, on a case-by-case basis, that is was actually more virulent, is the word used, namely more likely to make you seriously ill or kill you. When they went and became more granular and looked at the data, they
became convinced that it is, in fact, a bit more virulent, namely making it more difficult when you get to the point of serious disease and even death.
So I believe their data -- I haven't seen all of it but, from what I've heard, I believe the data.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Dr. Roshini Raj is an associate professor of medicine at NYU Langone Health. And she's also a contributing medical editor of "Health" magazine.
Doctor Raj, great to see you.
We see Moderna today announced their COVID-19 vaccine is expected to protect people against the new variants. I know that is very much top of mind for so many people.
How hopeful are you that these new variants can be kept under control?
DR. ROSHINI RAJ, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, NYU, LANGONE & CONTRIBUTING MEDICAL EDITOR, "HEALTH" MAGAZINE: Well, I mean, it's certainly somewhat distressing news, what we just heard this morning, that actually, in fact, the British variant may be more deadly or cause more serious disease. A few weeks ago, we were not hearing that.
Now more hopes are resting on the vaccines in ability to prevent the prior variants but these new ones as well.
What Moderna said a good news/bad news story. The good news is it seemed to offer protection against the South African variant. However, it did not offer as much protection against that variant as it does for the other variant. There's a difference there.
And they're talking about actually developing a booster vaccine or a different vaccine to actually deal more effectively with the South African variant.
This is adding another layer of complication to this whole vaccine story. And as much as I usually love to be optimistic, as you know, Brianna, I think this is something we have to look carefully at and deal with kind of on a case-by-case basis.
We're talking about two variants right now. There are some others and more may develop in the future.
The good news is the vaccine companies, the pharma companies, seem well-equipped to react in real time in terms of developing new types of vaccines or new variants of the vaccine to deal with potentially more deadly variants.
KEILAR: What is a booster, then? Let's say, if you get a vaccine, and it doesn't have as much protection against the South African variant or some other variant that could still be yet to come, how, then, do you supplement your protection that you have in the vaccine?
RAJ: Great question. So if you think about it this way, talking about the regular, old COVID-19, they developed a vaccine for that. A normal variant. You have a lot of protection against it. Right?
Say, 95 percent protection. Those antibodies should last quite a long time. Still don't know what.
But say it's a year and a half, and it looks like the South African variant is not going to development as much protection right off the bat.
Starting at a lower level, running out more quickly. Might need a booster more quickly. Six months to a year as opposed to other booster variants.
Meaning, get your vaccine specifically addressing that variant you didn't get protection for much before, so that you are at the higher level, so that you can be protected and not get sick.
KEILAR: Thank you so much. I mean, look, we're all just getting used to this information. I know we have concerns.
So we appreciate you alleviating some of them and explaining to us, Dr. Raj.
RAJ: Thank you.
KEILAR: Apology tours and reputation rejuvenation are quite in vogue now in the wake of President Trump's exit from the White House. That includes the curious case of Dr. Deborah Birx, who appeared on CBS News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARGARET BRENNAN, CBS NEWS MODERATOR, "FACE THE NATION": Did you ever consider quitting?
DR. DEBORAH BIRX, FORMER COORDINATOR, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE: Always.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Last March, Birx began the pandemic buttering up President Trump, even as he denied science.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIRX: He's been so attentive to the scientific literature and the details and the data.
And I think his, his ability to analyze and integrate data that comes out of his long history in business has really been a real benefit during these discussions about medical issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: Turns out, she was being very generous in her description there of Trump, as Dr. Birx made clear Sunday when she told "Face the Nation's" Margaret Brennen, this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[14:40:05]
BIRX: I wrote a daily report, over 310 of them, that went to senior leaders. We created --
BRENNAN: Did President Trump read them?
BIRX: I don't know. I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: So while Birx actually had a very large platform, she said early on Trump was, quote, "attentive to the literature and data."
But now she says --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIRX: I saw the president presenting graphs that I never made. So I know that someone or someone out there or someone inside was creating a parallel set of data and graphics that were shown to the president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: It's unclear how far along in the pandemic it was but, at some point, she knew Trump was looking at the B.S. data and she's telling us now.
When people were actually listening to what Dr. Birx said, which she was speaking from the White House briefing room, from the podium, she initially claimed Trump was, quote, "so attentive to the scientific literature and had the ability to analyze and integrate data."
That's how she described him while he was describing coronavirus like this --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You can call it a germ, you can call it a flu, you can call it is virus. You can call it many different names. I'm not sure anybody even knows what it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Back in March, she also aided Trump promoting a Google site for testing nationwide, which was a Google site we later learned did not exist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Google has 1,700 engineers working on this right now. Making tremendous progress.
BIRX: We want to also announce this new approach to testing, which will start in the screening Web site, up here, facilitated by Google.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: That was bunk. And 1,700 Google engineers? No.
Google quickly knocked it down. They said they weren't running the project. A separate company was.
It was a company that had 1,000 employees total, with a brand-new project that was only in the stages of coming up with a pilot Web site to roll out any single city.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIRX: Please, for the reassurance of people around the world, to wake up this morning and look at people creating DNR situations, do not resuscitate situations for patients, there's no situation in the United States right now that warrants that kind of discussion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Except there was. That discussion was happening in at least one hospital system.
In Michigan, for example, on that very day, Henry Ford Health System confirmed a letter detailing life-and-death guidelines during the pandemic as a worst-case scenario. And, unfortunately, it has only expanded as the months have gone on.
In Los Angeles, ambulance drivers are being told, only bring patients to hospitals who have a chance to live.
One of the most infamous moments involving Birx is when the president decided to brain-storm ways to treat coronavirus patients with unproven methods that would actually kill them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Supposing we hit the body with a tremendous - whether it's ultraviolet or very powerful light.
And I think you said you've going to test it. I said suppose you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you're going to test that, too. Sounds interesting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
TRUMP: Right. And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or -- or -- almost a cleaning?
Heat and the light relative to certain viruses, yes. But relative to this virus?
BIRX: That is a treatment. Certainly, fever --
TRUMP: Yes?
BIRX: It's a good thing when you have a fever. It helps your body respond. But not as -- I've not seen heat or --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: I think it's a good thing to look at.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: On Birx's reputation rehab tour, this is how she describes that moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIRX: Was I prepared for that? No, I wasn't prepared for that. I didn't even know what to do in that moment.
BRENNAN: Sometimes people say, Tony Fauci, when that happened to him, he would sort of gently come back up to the podium and set the record straight.
BIRX: Well, he was given the opportunity to do that.
BRENNAN: You don't feel you were given the opportunity to respond?
BIRX: Not until he turned to me and said, could this be a treatment, and I said, not a treatment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Yes. That was it. That was the opportunity to respond, to tell people not to ingest or inject bleach.
It was as glaring as a blinking neon sign and she missed it.
And after that moment, she defended Trump's musings on FOX.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[14:45:02]
BIRX: When he gets new information, he likes to talk that through out loud and really have that dialogue. So that's what dialogue he was having.
I think he just saw the information at the time, immediately before the press conference, and he was still digesting that information.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: When asked by CNN's Jake Tapper about that moment, she blamed the media for focusing on it, essentially calling it old news.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: As a doctor, doesn't that bother you, you have to even spend any time discussing this?
BIRX: Well, I think -- it bothers me this is still in the news cycle.
I worry that we don't get the information to the American people that they need when we continue to bring up something that was from Thursday night.
I think the president made it clear that physicians have to study this. I think I've made it clear that this was a musing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Study what? Study ingesting disinfectant into the human body? Her milk-toast answers gave life to really bad advice from Trump.
And keep in mind, the CDC had to put out a warning on ingesting disinfectants after a spike in calls to poison centers.
Later, in June, Trump bucked all his administration's medical advice and he decided to hold a rally in Tulsa risking lives to see a big crowd chanting his name. And he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: So I said to my people, slow the testing down, please!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: But when asked if he had actually asked the administration to slow testing, Birx backed the president up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIRX: No, he did not tell me that. And he's never told us that. I think he's very proud of what he's been able to bring to bear for testing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Proud? Of what? Testing was a nightmare then. And Trump didn't have to tell them not to test. He said it. He said it publicly.
And he was also false blaming the rise of coronavirus on what? On testing. On the number of tests being done. And he did it over and over and over again.
Doctors believe that if we test more, it will help us open the economy back up sooner.
Eventually, like most relationships with Trump, on the other end, Birx' relationship turned sour. Trump shunned her advice as he started listening, instead, to Dr.
Scott Atlas, a neuroradiologist that he had cherry picked from FOX. A doctor with no infectious disease credentials, who once had a tweet removed from Twitter when he questioned mask wearing as cases and the death toll rose and rose.
Around this time, as Trump tweeted Birx was pathetic, after saying publicly the virus was spreading, she started taking the truth on the road, warning states the pandemic was out of control.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENNAN: Why would you be sneaking around? You're the head of the COVID task force and tens of thousands of Americans are dying. Why is that a covert operation?
BIRX: Because this isn't working. And you're not going to get that to work. You have to find another solution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Except for many Americans and their families, that solution came way too late. It came months too late.
Instead of saying it out loud, Birx went on a tour telling officials privately what they weren't hearing from the president.
And as reporters like Maggie Haberman note, she wasn't really interested in speaking with reporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIRX: I always feel like I could have done more, been more outspoken, maybe been more outspoken publicly. I didn't know all the consequences of all of these issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: So why didn't she?
There's a pattern of miscalculation that many in Trump's orbit have made, trying to stay in his good graces in public, rationalizing that they could change things from the inside, acting like a guardrail.
Perhaps with Dr. Birx, it was that the promise of working alongside the president in private and affecting policy in the inside that kept her quiet?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENNAN: -- President Trump.
BIRX: -- exposure.
I had very little exposure to President Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: All right, never mind that theory. Whatever reason Dr. Birx had for going along with misinformation, failing to forcefully discredit medical advice that could kill people, only she really knows.
Her explanations are weak. They're woefully insufficient. They're an insult after more than 400,000 Americans died.
To scientists, Birx is a cautionary tale about letting politics and power warp science until it is no longer science.
That a doctor can spend 40 years building a reputation that garners respect, being a champion of science and serving others, but if they don't stand up for science when it counts, when lives are on the line, their reputation can be wiped away.
All it takes is a little bleach. And in her case, a small ray of sunlight.
[14:49:58]
Next, a Secret Service agent, who once protected Michelle Obama, now learned his own brother was part of the mob that attacked the capitol.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: CNN has learned that one of the accused capitol rioters is the brother of a Secret Service agent who once led the detail for former first lady, Michelle Obama.
Preston Fairlamb is the Secret Service agent. And his brother is Scott Fairlamb, a man who facing five charges connected to his alleged role in the insurrection that his lawyer says his brother was unaware of, his alleged actions during the capitol riots.
CNN's Whitney Wild is following all of this for us.
Whitney, what more can you tell us about the charges against Scott Fairlamb and what his brother is saying about it?
WHITNEY WILD, CNN NEWSOURCE NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a very weird change of events. And it has a very strange layer to it already. A really strange story. We know that more than 100 people have been charged, federally.
Scott Fairlamb, one of them, he's facing charges for assaulting a police officer. We now know that police officer is one of at least 65 people within the Metropolitan Police Department who was injured.
And, again, what makes his case so much stranger is that his brother, as you said, is a member of the Secret Service.
We haven't heard from his brother directly, although Scott Fairlamb's attorney says that his brother had no knowledge of his alleged actions that day. But we're piecing this a little bit together through the former first lady's own memoirs. She writes about Preston Fairlamb really very glowingly in her memoir, saying, "All of us grew close to our agents over time. Preston Fairlamb led my detail then."
She also goes on to say, "None of us ever stepped outside of the bubble. The bubble moved with each of us individually."
Again, this is just one of a long list of people who are being charged with assaulting police officers.
It's so much stranger because you might think someone who has a family member in law enforcement might have taken another route that day, would be on another side of this.
But it just goes to show one of the main themes that we've seen throughout reporting on these prosecutions, is you just don't know who is in the crowd that day -- Brianna?
[14:55:05]
KEILAR: Yes. That's a very good point.
Whitney Wild, thank you so much for that report.
And we're following breaking news that the Justice Department watchdog is now investigating whether anyone at the department tried to help overturn the election.
Plus, resistance is forming among some Republicans to President Biden's COVID relief package. Details on what's behind that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Hi, there. You're watching CNN on this Monday. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me.
[15:00:00]
This hour, President Biden will sign another executive order. If you are keeping track, he has signed more than 30, thus far, in his first five days in office.
