Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Dominion Voting Systems Sues Giuliani for $1.38 Billion Over Lies; Tonight House to Send Impeachment Article to Senate; President Biden Announces Plan to Strengthen Manufacturing in The U.S. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired January 25, 2021 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDI GIULIANI, DONALD TRUMP'S PERSONAL LAWYER: Dominion sends everything to Smartmatic.

Can you believe it? Our votes are sent overseas. They're sent to someplace else, some other country.

One of the experts that has examined these crooked Dominion machines has absolutely what he believes is conclusive proof that in the last 10 percent, 15 percent of the vote counted the votes were deliberately changed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Dominion lawyers say all of that is simply not true and a lot of fact checkers said that's not true either. What's important though legally here. Brooke, when you talk about this claim for $1.3 billion is, they are saying Rudy Giuliani knew it wasn't true.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Has --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM CLARE, DOMINION LEGAL COUNSEL: He knew from the outset. The complaint alleges that there was no evidence that the election was rigged, and that's why even Mr. Giuliani didn't make those claims in court, but he made them on television and online where they would do maximum damage to Dominion but face minimal scrutiny.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOREMAN (on camera): So that's the problem, Brooke. They're saying he knew it, others close to the president knew it but because it was popular with the base, because it fired up the base, they kept saying it even when Dominion had put out a warning and said this isn't true. You need to stop. BALDWIN: So they are going after Rudi Giuliani. But the question I

wanted to ask is just, has Dominion said if they even plan to go a step further against the former president or even members of his own family.

That was my first question today, Brooke, and they said no one is off the table and they included Fox News, OAN, Epoch Times, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Maria Bartiromo, a bunch of people out there. They're saying no one's off the table yet because many of these people they believe had every reason to believe this was false information and they kept spreading it.

Now Giuliani you mentioned his response to all of this. He has said that what he wants to say --

The amount being asked for, this $1.3 billion is quite obviously intended to frighten people of faint heart. It is another act of intimidation by the hate-filled left-wing to wipe out and censor the exercise of free speech.

To which they are going to say no, no, no. You had lots and lots of free speech. Now it's time to pay the piper.

BALDWIN: We get some legal analysis on all of this, Tom, thank you for the reporting in the set up here.

Elliott Williams is with me, CNN legal analyst and former deputy assistant under the Obama administration. Elliott, you know, the filing is full of examples of Giuliani and we just heard Tom playing Giuliani's words himself, right, for everyone to hear about his thoughts on Dominion. Hearing it all, what stands out to you?

ELLIOTT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, so look, you might hear the $1.3 billion figure and balk, right. It's a lot of money.

However, the suit -- it's a lot of money -- but the suit isn't frivolous, and look, we're about to get a semester of law school in about 30 seconds here so stay with me. But to win a defamation -- here you go, that's why you watch CNN. But to win a defamation suit what they would have to establish is three or four things.

Number one, that there was a false statement made, that the speaker knew or had or at least should have known was as false statement. And number three, that they suffered some sort of harm.

Now, all of those things are met in this case where Rudy Giuliani has every reason to believe that these are false statements and the most interesting thing in the pleadings is that they note that he says this about 50 times between tweets and on Fox News and all the other places, but he never says it in a court filing.

Which is striking because by putting it in a court filing, he would have been jeopardizing his law license if he knew he was lying. So it's one thing to say it in a tweet, it's another thing to say it in court and they point to that as evidence that they think that Rudy Giuliani is lying. But -- oh, and finally on the damages point. Look, they are a company that exists to make voting machines. Saying that the voting machines are themselves instruments of fraud and don't work, strikes at the very hard of their business, and they've had to put in hundreds of thousands of security measures and they have gotten threats and so on.

BALDWIN: But how do you get to $1.3 billion? That's a lot of money.

WILLIAMS: Again, Brooke, it is. However, they exist to make voting machines. Their entire business is voting machines. The entire brand value is voting machines.

So for instance, if someone were -- if Rudy Giuliani were to go out there and say Levi Strauss jeans immediately fall apart the minute you put them on. Or all Starbucks coffee has razor blades in it or something like that.

All of those claims -- I don't believe either of those things by the way, they're wonderful products. But all of those claims go to the very integrity of the product. They can't be profitable if the public believes that their products just simply don't work. And so perhaps, even if their -- I don't know what their total value is as a company. But that's not out of the question.

[15:35:00]

Now, they can use that figure to go into court and negotiate with Rudy Giuliani in a settlement. And look, they're not going to collect $1.3 billion from him. It's not likely to go to trial but if they win, they will definitely get something even if it's just their reputation back.

BALDWIN: If you are Rudy Giuliani and his lawyers right now, what are you doing?

WILLIAMS: Lying which is what they have done all along. They are claiming that they are going to countersue and they are claiming that they are going to use this lawsuit to get evidence about all the fraud and all the Venezuela ties.

It's just nonsense and it's simply not -- they should be careful because, again, as I said a little bit earlier if lawyers knowingly make filings on courts that they know to be untrue or frivolous, they can face sanctions. Rudy Giuliani is himself a lawyer. His lawyers are themselves lawyers, and they ought to be very, very careful here.

BALDWIN: Elliott Williams, thanks for my JD today. Appreciate it.

WILLIAMS: You got it. You get an "A," Brooke.

BALDWIN: Thank you, thank you. Super, super just interesting and helpful as we watch to see this unfold with this mega voting systems machine. Thank you, the company.

We have breaking news this afternoon on an investigation into whether anyone at the Department of Justice was plotting with President Trump to thwart the will of the American people and overturn election. Those new details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:40:00]

BALDWIN: In a matter of hours, the nine House impeachment managers will formally walk over to the Senate, a single article of impeachment against former President Donald Trump charging him with incitement an insurrection.

They then will have two weeks to prepare the case before the trial is set to begin on February 9th. But several Republicans are telling CNN that the chances of Trump being convicted of inciting that Capitol Hill riot that left five dead including a Capitol Hill police Brian Sicknick are nil.

With me now, Democratic Congresswoman of Texas Sheila Jackson Lee joining us from a mass vaccination site back home there in her district.

So Congresswoman, welcome. Nice to have you back on. And we'll talk about why you're there is just second. But let's jump to impeachment. I was -- you know, Republican Senator Marco Rubio has said a few things about this upcoming impeachment trial. He's called it arrogant. He's called it stupid and he said, quote, we already have a flaming fire in this country in that this trial would be a bunch of gasoline. Your response to that.

REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D-TX): Well, Brooke, I don't think the family of the deceased police officers or those others, unfortunately, that were part of the insurrection who are now dead might think of any accountability as being stupid. Clearly the president of the United States --

BALDWIN: Forgive me, Congresswoman. We've got to listen to President Biden.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- and take you questions. If that's OK with you all.

Last week we immediately got to work to contain the pandemic and deliver economic relief to millions of Americans who need it the most, and today we're getting to work to rebuild the backbone of America, manufacturing, unions, the middle class.

It's based on a simple premise, that we'll reward work, not wealth in this country, and the key plank of ensuring the future will be made in America.

I've long said that I don't accept the defeatist view that the forces of automation and globalization can't -- can keep union jobs from growing here in America. We can create more of them, not fewer of them.

I don't buy for one second the -- that the vitality of the American manufacturing is a thing of the past. American manufacturing was the arsenal of democracy in World War II and it must be part of the engine of American prosperity now. That means we are going to use taxpayer's money to rebuild America. We'll buy American products and support American jobs, union jobs.

For example, the federal government every year spends approximately $600 billion in government procurement to keep the country going, safe and secure, and there's a law that's been on the books for almost a century now to make sure that that money when spent, taxpayers' dollars for procurement, is spent to support American jobs and American businesses.

But the previous administration didn't take it seriously enough. Federal agencies waived the buy America requirement without much pushback at all. Big corporations and special interests have long fought for loopholes to redirect American taxpayers' dollars to foreign companies for the products being made.

The result, tens of billions of American taxpayer's dollar supporting foreign jobs and foreign industries. In 1918 -- excuse me, in 2018 alone the department spent $3 billion, the Defense Department, on foreign construction contracts leaving American steel and iron out in the cold. It spent nearly 300 million in foreign engines and on vehicles instead of buying American vehicles and engines from American companies, putting Americans to work.

Under the previous administration the federal government contract awarded directly to foreign companies went up 30 percent. That is going to change on our watch.

[15:45:00]

Today I'm taking the first steps in my larger build back better recovery plan that invests in American workers, unions and businesses up and down the supply chain.

And I know the previous president entered office by promising to buy American and instituting buy America policy, but here's why this is different and not the same.

I'll be signing an executive order in just a moment tightening the existing buy American policies and go further. We're setting clear directives and clear explanations. We're going to get to the core issue with a centralized coordinated effort.

Look, today I'm creating a Director of Made in America at the White House Office of Management and Budget who will oversee our all of government made in America initiative.

That starts with stopping federal agencies from waiving buy American requirements with impunity as has been going on. If an agency wants to issue a waiver to say we're not going to buy an American product as part of this project, we're going to buy a foreign product. They have to come to the White House and explain it to us.

We're going to require that waivers be publicly posted, that is someone seeking a waiver to build this particular vehicle or facility and it's going to buy the following foreign parts. That waiver, the request for it is going to be posted. Then we'll work with small American manufacturers and businesses to give them a shot to raise their hand and say, yes, I can do that here in my shop, in my town.

It's about-- as you heard me before used to have a friend who was a great athlete say you've got to know how to know. These small businesses don't even know that they can compete for making the product that is attempted to be waived and being able to be bought abroad.

And I'm directing the Office of Management and Budget to review waivers to make sure they are only used in very limited circumstances. For example, when there's an overwhelming national security, humanitarian or emergency need here in America. This hasn't happened before. It will happen now.

Here's what else we're going to be doing. Under the build back better recovery plan we'll invest hundreds of billions of dollars in buying American products and materials to modernize our infrastructure and our competitive strength will increase in a competitive world.

That means millions of good-paying jobs using American-made steel and technology to rebuild our roads, our bridges, our ports and to make them more climate resilient as well as make them able to move faster and cheaper and cleaner to transport American made goods across the country and around the world, making us more competitive.

It also means replenishing our stockpiles to enhance our national security. As this pandemic has made clear, we can never again be in a position where we have to rely on a foreign country that doesn't share our interests in order to protect our people during a national emergency.

We need to make our own protective equipment, essential products and supplies, and we'll work with our allies to make sure that they have a resilient supply chains as well.

We'll also make historic investments in research and development, hundreds of billions of dollars to sharpen America's innovative edge in markets where global leadership is up for grabs, markets like battery technology, artificial intelligence, biotechnology, clean energy.

The federal government also owns an enormous fleet of vehicles which we're going to replace with clean electric vehicles made right here in America by American workers creating millions of jobs -- a million autoworkers jobs -- in clean energy, in vehicles that are net zero emissions.

And together this will be the largest mobilization of public investment and procurement infrastructure and R & D since World War II. And with the executive order I'll be signing today we'll increase buy American requirements for these kinds of projects and improve the way we measure domestic content requirements.

For example, right now if you manufacture a vehicle for the federal government you need to show at least 50 percent of the components of that vehicle were made in America, but because of loopholes that have been expanded over time you can count the least valuable possible parts as part of that 50 percent to say made in America while the most valuable parts, the engines, the steel, the glass, the manufacturing -- are manufactured abroad.

So basically, we're batting 0 for 2.

[15:50:00]

The content threshold of 50 percent isn't high enough and the way we measure the content doesn't account for U.S. jobs and economic activity. We're going to change that as well.

The executive action I'm signing today will not only require that companies make more of their components in America but that the value of those components is contributing to our economy measured by things like the number of American jobs created and or supported

At the same time, we'll be committed to working with our trading partners to modernize international trade rules, including those relating to government procurement, to make sure we can use -- we can all use our taxpayer dollars to spur investment that promotes growth and resilient supply chains.

And here's what else the action does. When we buy America, we'll buy from all of America. That includes communities that have historically been left out of government procurement, black, brown, Native American, small businesses and entrepreneurs in every region of the country.

We will use a national network of manufacturers called the Manufacturing Extension Partnership that's in all 50 states and Puerto Rico, to help government agency connect with new domestic suppliers across the country.

This is a critical piece of building our economy back better, and including everyone in the deal this time, especially small businesses that are badly hurting in this economy.

The executive action I'm taking also reiterates my strong support for the Jones Act, and American vessels. You know, our ports, especially those important for America's clean energy future and the development of offshore renewable energy.

I'll close with this, the reason we need to do this, the reason we need to do this, is America can't sit on the sidelines in the race to the future. Our competitors aren't waiting. To ensure the future is made in America we need to win not just the jobs of today but the jobs and industries of tomorrow. And we know that the middle class built this country. And we also know unions built the middle class. So let's invest in them once again.

I know we're ready, despite all we're facing. I've never been more optimistic about the future of America that I am today. Given even just half a chance, the American people, the American worker has never, ever let the country down. Imagine if we give them a full chance.

That's what we're going to do. I'll stop here and sign the executive order, and then come back and take some of your questions.

This executive order is entitled "Ensuring the Future Is Made in America, By Americans, All American Workers."

There we go, now I'll be happy to take your questions.

JONATHAN LEMIRE, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Thank you, Mr. President. Jonathan Lemire with the Associated Press. Two topics if I may.

The first, you have made reopening schools a central part of your first 100 days agenda. And you've long portrayed yourself as an ally to the teachers and unions. Right now the Chicago Teachers Union has refused, they defied an order to return to in-person classrooms because of a lack of vaccinations.

Do you believe, sir, that teachers should return to schools now?

BIDEN: I believe we should make school classrooms safe and secure for the students, for the teachers and for the help that's in the schools maintaining the facilities.

We need new ventilation systems in those schools. We need testing for people coming in and out of the classes. We need testing for teachers as well as students and we need the capacity, the capacity to know that in fact, the circumstance in the school is safe and secure for everyone.

For example, there's no reason why the clear guidance will be that every school should be thoroughly sanitized from the laboratories to the hallways.

And so this is about making -- and none of the school districts I'm aware of, there may be some public school districts -- have insisted that all those pieces be in place.

[15:55:00]

And I might add it's the same kind of thing I hope we can do with small businesses and businesses. Making sure they have the capacity to test their workers when they come in, to make sure they have plastic dividers between their booths and in their restaurants, et cetera.

To make sure they can sanitize. So it's not so much about the idea teachers aren't going to work. The teachers I know, they want to work. They just want to work in a safe environment and safe as you can rationally make, and we can do that.

We should be able to open up every school, kindergarten through eighth grade if, in fact, we administer these tests. And we'll have the added advantage, I might add, of putting millions of people back to work.

All those mothers and fathers that are home, taking care of their children, rather than go to work even when they can work. They're not able to do it unless they have the luxury of working distance wise, like many of us do. They're not able to do it.

And so this is about generating economic growth overall as well.

ALEX ALPER, REUTERS: Thank you, Mr. President. I'm Alex Alper from Reuters. I wanted to ask a question about Navalny. If you are you considering imposing sanctions on any of the individuals involved in his attempted poisoning and/or his arrest when he returned to from Germany? And if not, is that related to your concerns about it potentially derailing a New START extension? Thank you.

BIDEN: I find that we can both operate in mutual self-interest of our countries as a New START agreement and making clear to Russia that we are very concerned about their behavior, whether it's Navalny, whether it's the SolarWinds or whether it's reports of bounties on the heads of Americans in Afghanistan.

I have asked the agencies in question to do a thorough read for me on every one of those issues, to update me precisely where they are, and I will not hesitate to raise those issues with the Russians.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A question about your COVID relief deal. On Friday you said the nation is in a national emergency, we should act like it. Given that, given the scale and the severity of the need, how long are you willing to get sufficient Republican support before you would green light Democrat attempts to use reconciliation, for instance, to pass that bill?

BIDEN: Well look, the decision on reconciliation will be one made by the leaders of the House and the Senate. But here is the deal. I have been doing legislative negotiations for a large part of my life. I know how the system works.

And what I'm not -- I can't guarantee anything at all, but I can say that what I'm going to be doing, and we've already begun, is making it clear to the leadership and the House and the Senate, as well as the group of 16, bipartisan group as well as Republican individuals who have an interest in the issues that are in my package.

And saying here's what I'm doing. Here is why I want to do it, here's where I think we need to do it, and what kind of support can you or can't you give to that? And then we go on to the way in which we deal with legislation all the time.

You know, we didn't have any votes for the recovery package when Barack and I came into office. We were short three votes. We didn't know we had the votes until the day of the -- the day of the bringing it up.

But here is the deal, you know. It's interesting, and I know you ask a lot of these questions. You know the answers but you have to educate the public as well. I'm not suggesting you don't know what I'm about to say.

No one wants to give up on their position until there's no other alternative. They have to make a decision that they don't do what they -- they don't support what is being proposed or they insist on what they have, or they let it all go away, fall down.

I think we're far from that point right now. The decision to use reconciliation will depend upon how these negotiations go.

And let me make clear about negotiations. I've always believed part of negotiation, on the part of a president and/or a chairman of a committee, trying to get a major piece of legislation passed is about consultation. It's not enough for me just to come up to you and say, I like this. I expect you to support it.

I want to explain to you why I think it's so important in this package that we have to provide for money for additional vaccines. Why I think it's so important why we provide for money to extend unemployment benefits, why I think it's so important we provide money to provide for the ability of people not to be thrown out of their apartments during this pandemic.