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Republican Party Members Still Believe Conspiracies; Europe COVID-19 Crisis Deepens; Interview with Elizabeth Esty and Charles Boustany of the Association of Former Members of Congress. Aired 10:30-11a ET
Aired January 27, 2021 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[10:31:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, a new CNN KFILE investigation shows that newly elected Republican congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia repeatedly indicated support on her Facebook page for -- wait for it -- executing Democratic politicians in 2018 and 2019.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: This really happened. Unfortunately, her disturbing and dangerous views aren't just a one-off. Right now, there is a battle growing within the Republican Party between embracing those conspiracy propagators and those who pushed Stop the Steal, et cetera, and those who want to move on and expand the party's base. Our Kyung Lah takes a closer look at the growing divide among Republicans across the nation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the storming of a capitol you may not have seen: Rioters breached the Oregon State Capitol and assaulted police less than a month before this, the insurrection in Washington, D.C.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: USA!
LAH (voice-over): As former President Donald Trump faces a second impeachment trial, charged for his role inciting the deadly D.C. riot --
BILL CURRIER, OREGON REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIRMAN: It was a sham impeachment just like the first one.
LAH (voice-over): -- the Oregon Republican Party defiantly defends Trump.
CURRIER: Patriots are not going away, the president's not going away.
LAH (voice-over): The state party passed a resolution condemning 10 House Republicans who voted to impeach Trump, calling it a betrayal. Then dived into this conspiratorial lie about the insurrection, that there is growing evidence that the violence at the Capitol was a false flag operation designed to discredit President Trump.
CURRIER: This is a time for choosing, but it's a time for choosing what you really believe and want to stand for, and not for just giving lip service to being a Republican.
LAH (voice-over): That's not helping to win over more Republicans, says Oregon State Representative David Brock Smith.
DAVID BROCK SMITH (R), OREGON STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Extremism on either side only benefits a small minority and it's not the majority of the constituents that we represent.
LAH (voice-over): Choosing to side with the far-right fringe or not, that's the battle at the state party level.
In Texas, the GOP continues to use the slogan, "We Are the Storm," the same slogan used by followers of the QAnon conspiracy. The Texas Republicans deny that connection.
In Hawaii, a top GOP official resigned from his post after he tweeted sympathy for QAnon followers from the state party account. He later called it an error in judgment.
BARBARA WYLLIE, ARIZONA GOP PARTY MEMBER: It'll be the Trump Republican Party.
LAH (voice-over): In Arizona, it's open warfare among Republicans. These women believe the baseless claims peddled by Trump.
CORKY HAYNES, ARIZONA GOP PARTY MEMBER: This election was stolen. Trump won, I think, by a landslide.
WYLLIE: I will be with him wherever he goes, however he goes.
LAH (voice-over): The state party shows no sign of moving away from Trump. Members re-elected a fervent Trump follower as their chairwoman despite Democrats flipping the state blue in 2020. Arizona Republican Party members don't seem to care.
EUGENE PEPLOWSKI, ARIZONA GOP PARTY MEMBER: Unification at what cost, OK? Selling out America? I can't do that.
LAH (voice-over): There will be a price, warn establishment Republicans.
JEFF FLAKE (R), FORMER U.S. SENATOR FROM ARIZONA: It really is driving normal, regular, rational people from the Republican Party, and we can't afford to lose many more.
LAH: It's more than just a fear that the senator is talking about, there are real numbers behind this. The Arizona secretary of state's office says 9,944 registered Republicans -- that's almost 10,000 of them -- have officially switched their party registration since the U.S. Capitol riot. Establishment Republicans here in Arizona say that is not just a warning, it is a blaring siren. Kyung Lah, CNN, Scottsdale, Arizona. (END VIDEOTAPE)
[10:35:05]
HARLOW: Wow, what a piece, Kyung, thank you very, very much.
Ahead for us, at the start of the pandemic, the U.K. government said it was hopeful the country could cap its COVID deaths at 20,000. Now, 10 months later, the country has lost 100,000 lives to COVID. We'll take you to London, ahead.
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HARLOW: Well, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is striking a somber tone as the U.K. becomes the first European nation to record 100,000 coronavirus deaths.
[10:40:06]
SCIUTTO: CNN's Salma Abdelaziz joins us now from London.
Salma, so how is the prime minister responding to criticism over his -- I mean, let's be frank, many flip-flops over how to respond to the epidemic?
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: Poppy and Jim, it really does feel like a day of reckoning because that toll, those 100,000 deaths, that is not proportionate. You are much more likely to be one of those victims if you are poor, if you are elderly, if you are a person of color. So there is a sense of anger and grief here because this country's most vulnerable, those who needed the most protection, were failed by the authorities.
Prime Minister Boris Johnson was just in Parliament a short time ago, and he had some tough questions to answer. Take a listen to how he responded.
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BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: There will indeed be a time when we must learn the lessons of what has happened, reflect on them and prepare (INAUDIBLE). I don't think that moment is now, when we are in the throes of fighting this wave of the new variant.
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ABDELAZIZ: Now is not the time. But I can tell you, Poppy and Jim, there's plenty of people who say now is exactly the time to ask these questions because this country is still trying to fight off a variant of COVID-19. We need to find out what went wrong, and how to do it right.
So questions are being asked. Did the government act quickly enough, was scientific advice listened to closely enough, was public messaging clear enough? I think critics will answer no to all of those questions. And what's most concerning is we are still, again, in the throes of a surge of coronavirus cases. That death toll, it's only going to climb -- Poppy and Jim.
SCIUTTO: Will there be any political consequences, a long way from an election there in the U.K. Salma Abdelaziz, thanks very much.
Well, the European health commissioner is pushing back as the CEO of the drug maker AstraZeneca defends the decision to supply vaccine to the U.K. ahead of the European Union, leaving the E.U. with considerably fewer doses in the coming weeks than it expected.
HARLOW: Let's go to our colleague Cyril Vanier, he joins us from Paris. Good morning, Cyril, what is actually happening here?
CYRIL VANIER, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Well, what's actually happening is that there are two separate contracts signed by AstraZeneca, one with the U.K. and one with the European Union because, remember, they're two separate entities now.
And the E.U. preordered 300 million doses of this vaccine. That money, helping to fund the vaccine research and the preproduction of the vaccine. So they thought that it would guarantee them delivery at pace and at scale of many AstraZeneca vaccine doses as soon as the vaccine would be authorized in the E.U., which is expected to happen this week.
AstraZeneca says, well, look, we have a production problem in Europe that we don't have in the U.K., so we get to honor our U.K. contract but we're having difficulties honoring our E.U. contract.
That answer? Simply not acceptable for the E.U. Commission. Listen to this.
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STELLA KYRIAKIDES, EUROPEAN HEALTH COMMISSIONER: Not being able to ensure manufacturing capacity is against the letter and the spirit of our agreement. We reject the logic of first come, first served. That may work at the neighborhood butcher's but not in contracts, and not in our advance purchase agreements.
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VANIER: And frankly, the E.U.'s anger is commensurate with how desperately they need this vaccine. It is the easier one to roll out of the three that are currently available: Pfizer, Moderna, and AstraZeneca, which, as I said, will be approved more than likely later this week.
This one, much easier to roll out than the Pfizer one currently available. The E.U., currently staring down the barrel of a third wave of coronavirus. They want this vaccine in the arms of Europeans as soon as they can get it.
HARLOW: OK, Cyril, thank you very, very much for your reporting from Paris this morning.
Soon, also -- and this is significant, a team of 13 investigators from the World Health Organization will leave quarantine in China, they will begin research into the origins of the coronavirus pandemic. The investigation will begin in Wuhan, the original epicenter of the virus.
SCIUTTO: Lots of questions. One member of that team says that they will have to focus on the evidence and abandon all preconceived notions about how the virus evolved and spread.
[10:44:20]
The second impeachment trial of former President Donald Trump is giving the best snapshot of how divided Capitol Hill remains, even after a deadly insurrection -- you've seen the video. Now, a bipartisan group of former lawmakers is calling on leadership in both chambers to unify. We'll speak with two of those lawmakers, a Republican and a Democrat, next.
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SCIUTTO: It is time for political unity. That may seem like a familiar message, but it's one coming now from 128 members of the Association of Former Members of Congress of both parties. They are calling on party leadership to put country over party, particularly in the wake of the deadly insurrection on Capitol Hill.
In this letter they write, quote, "We urge you, as division not seen since the Vietnam War defines our union, to abandon the politics of tribalism. We challenge you, as our representative democracy is under severe stress, to shun those who peddle hyper-partisanship for personal gain."
Joining me now are two former lawmakers who signed that letter, Dr. Charles Boustany, he's the former Republican congressman from Louisiana; and Elizbeth Esty, she's former Democratic congresswoman from Connecticut.
Thanks to both of you for joining us this morning.
CHARLES BOUSTANY (R-LA), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Thank you, Jim.
[10:50:00]
ELIZABETH ESTY (D-CT), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Great to be with you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: If I could begin -- fantastic. If I could begin with you, Elizabeth, you know, I've spoken, as I'm sure you have, to sitting members of Congress who will privately say, yes, Trump is doing great damage to this country, this division is doing great damage to the country. But if I say that publicly, I lose my seat.
I wonder, is there any political incentive to compromise, right? Beyond criticizing, say, Trump for inciting an insurrection, even to vote along with other party on stimulus aid, you know, the country's so gerrymandered that the politics prevent this. And I wonder what your response is to that. ESTY: Well, I think what happened earlier this month, frankly, was so
shocking that it does open a door to saying we have to find a way forward. And that -- and the COVID does, frankly. Those continue every single day.
And I think the utter urgency of addressing this worldwide pandemic, that is hitting the United States worse, offers the opportunity and frankly the demand that people put aside the immediate political benefit they're getting right now -- and believe me, you get a lot more likes when you're extreme on your social media, but it's not about being liked, this is about being leaders.
SCIUTTO: Charles, I wonder -- so let's put -- let's look at the good side of things, right? You know, progress in this country rarely happens in one fell swoop, right? It happens over time. And I wonder if you see hope in these two statistics, right?
It wasn't a big number, but 10 Republican members of Congress voted to impeach a Republican president, a very popular one within the Republican Party. And yes, it was only five senators, but five Republican senators pushed back against this Rand Paul resolution yesterday, in effect saying no reason for a trial.
I mean, do you look at those and say, well, actually, that is movement in the right direction, and don't discount it?
BOUSTANY: Well, that is a start in the right direction, and it took incredible courage on the part of those 10 House Republicans who voted to impeach, and the five senators who voted against this resolution to shut things down.
But the fact of the matter is, the country is facing an incredible set of crises with the pandemic, the economic consequences, the social unrest, the violence in the Capitol was just despicable. And it ought to be a wake-up call to everyone serving in office, especially members of Congress.
So what we believe is that the leadership has to set the tone, the leadership in both House and Senate, Republican and Democrat. While recognizing that, yes, we're going to have fundamental differences on some issues, they have an obligation and a deep responsibility to govern and to legislate, and the best thing that could happen would be for them to do that, show some competence, show that the Article I branch of government, our Congress, can legislate and solve problems.
SCIUTTO: Elizabeth, I wonder if that is possible in today's information environment? Because what you just said, what you're both saying here makes perfect sense, but in the information bubble occupied by the vast majority of right-wing voters or Republican voters -- perhaps similar to the -- you know, the countervailing information bubble -- it's a whole different reality, right?
I mean, Trump wasn't responsible, maybe this was a false flag operation, you know, the Democrats want to turn us into Communist China, right? You know, how do you penetrate that with a very reasonable argument like the one you're making? ESTY: Well, I think maybe we don't look to penetrate those at the
edges, but what we look to do is to help the vast majority of Americans, who may have doubts or questions, but they're not in those camps and the truth is this is about leadership. People are literally dying.
And you're never going to find a president -- we haven't had a president since LBJ who respects Congress as much as Joe Biden does. He really believes in the importance of a strong congressional branch, and I think that does provide an opening.
And I would say what we're seeing with the confirmation and the votes on the confirmation in the Cabinet, is another sign of hope, of people saying, you know what, let's pull back from the brink. Honestly, folks, we have to find areas of common ground. Maybe it's not going to be impeachment, but you know what, national defense is a priority, dealing with China is a priority. And for darn sure, COVID is something we have to deal with and our citizens need us to do that.
And so I think there's plenty of ground where we need -- not only need, but where there's incentive, frankly, to reach common ground.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
Charles, just quickly before we go -- we don't have a lot of time, but -- words, give me the words you would give to a member of Congress who says, listen, I know this is all bad but I'd lose my seat. What do you say to them?
BOUSTANY: Well, you have -- fundamentally, you have an obligation to solve problems and do what you were elected to do. Secondly, our representative form of government will be worthless unless we can restore some semblance of trust. Trust is essential, it's the coin of the realm in this situation.
[10:55:16]
The bottom line is, if members of Congress don't work hard to restore trust in our system of government, things are going to get much, much worse. So I would say don't fear your district, go home and lead. Dispel falsehoods, speak truth, be honest and restore trust.
SCIUTTO: Those are good words, let's hope folks are listening. Elizabeth Esty, Charles Boustany, thanks so much to both of you.
ESTY: Thank you.
BOUSTANY: Thank you.
HARLOW: Great conversation. We're so glad you were with us today, we'll see you back here tomorrow morning. I'm Poppy Harlow.
SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto. NEWSROOM with Kate Bolduan starts right after a short break.
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