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Republicans Offer Scaled-Down COVID Relief Bill; Trump Names New Impeachment Trial Lawyers; January Marks Deadliest Month Since The Start Of COVID Pandemic; Interview With Rep. Nancy Mace (R-SC) About Clashes Between Extremist And Mainstream Republicans; GOP Implodes As Extremist And Mainstream Republicans Clash; Thousands Arrested Nationwide As Demands For Putin Critic's Release Grow Louder. Aired 7- 8p ET

Aired January 31, 2021 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:25]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: And tonight, we are following two big breaking news stories. A new push for bipartisanship. A group of Senate Republicans have an idea for a COVID relief bill, but how far will it fly with Democrats? I'm getting some new information tonight about that from an administration official.

Plus former President Trump starts to build another impeachment legal team, and we're learning about the new lawyers joining the defense.

And Russian police detain more than 5,000 people across the country as they try to break up new protests supporting a jailed opposition leader. And CNN is caught right in the middle of it.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

BROWN: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And we begin with breaking news tonight. CNN has learned that President Biden is open to some negotiation on a new COVID relief counteroffer pitched by a group of Republicans including scaling down stimulus checks to households making more than $150,000. That's according to a senior administration official I spoke with this afternoon. But that official also tells me tonight that the $600 billion GOP proposal, quote, "is not going to scratch the itch."

Arlette Saenz joins me from the White House now.

Arlette, let's start with the Republicans' plan offered today. What's in it?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, the counter proposal from these Republican senators, it's much smaller than what President Biden has been pushing for up on Capitol Hill. This group of GOP senators are proposing a plan that will be around $600 billion compared to that $1.9 trillion stimulus proposal from the president. Now I want to run you through a few of the items that the Republicans

are seeking. It will include a new round of stimulus checks that they want to be more targeted to reach those American families who need it most. One Republican senator suggesting it could be $1,000, versus that $1400 check the Biden administration wants to get out to the American people.

This GOP plan is also calling for $160 billion for vaccines and testing, something that has been a priority for both sides in the negotiations. It's also calling for extending enhanced unemployment benefits and also allocating about $4 billion for behavioral health and substance abuse issues.

Now these are just a few of the items that Republicans are putting on the table as they're trying to bring the talks a little bit more to the middle as these negotiations play out.

BROWN: And the Republicans are pushing for a meeting with President Biden to discuss COVID relief. In what areas are they hoping to negotiate with Biden and the Democrats?

SAENZ: Well, there are a few areas where they want to get to the negotiating table. That includes those targeted stimulus checks as well as unemployment benefits, and also funding for schools as they're reopening amid the pandemic.

Take a listen to two of the Republican senators who have signed onto this plan and what they had to say earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ROB PORTMAN (R-OH): With regard to the direct payments we think they should be much more targeted, $50,000 cap to individuals as an example, $100,000 for a family.

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): One area that we decrease, he has $170 billion for schools. Now we've already given schools 110 percent of what they usually receive from the federal government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now one question is how long President Biden will want to give these Republicans to negotiate. He has said that he wants a bipartisan measure but also indicated he could get this measure passed without Republican support. One thing that he is adamant is that he wants action on this fast, and so far there are no indications from the White House that they will be setting up that meeting, that those Republican senators have requested.

BROWN: All right, Arlette Saenz, thank you for bringing us the latest there from the White House.

And we are also following more breaking news. One day after parting ways with his entire impeachment defense team, former President Trump has hired a new set of lawyers to defend him and his second impeachment trial. Trump announced David Schoen and Bruce Al Caster, Jr. They are going to be taking over defense duties with just over a week until the trial begins.

CNN contributor and Republican election lawyer Ben Ginsberg joins me now to discuss this.

All right, so, Ben, nice to see you. Let's tick through what we know about these two new attorneys. David Schoen is a trial attorney and once a law professor at Seton Hall.

[19:05:02]

Bruce Caster was the district attorney at Montgomery County, Pennsylvania, from 2000 and 2008 and served as the solicitor-general and acting attorney general for Pennsylvania.

Now as we know the former president's impeachment team will start one week from Tuesday. But given the dynamic at play, the reshuffling, what we saw yesterday with the attorneys abandoning the team and now these new attorneys on the team, what is your takeaway from this?

BEN GINSBERG, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: If you're going into an impeachment trial you don't want to have to be changing up your lawyers so close to when the trial begins, first of all. Secondly, President Trump has gotten two experienced litigators to represent him. But of course an impeachment trial is a trial like no other. And so there are rules of procedure and rules of evidence in normal trials that just are not part of the Senate proceeding. And of course the jury in the Senate impeachment trial is a jury like no other.

BROWN: Right. So even though it appears that there are not enough Republicans that would convict and remove Trump, they still have to build an impeachment defense. Is eight days enough time?

GINSBERG: Well, certainly the body of evidence for the charges of leading an insurrection is out there and known.

Pamela, I think the wild card in this is whether Donald Trump does insist on trying to make his case for election fraud, which if he does will make senators very, very nervous. And he basically has been told in the Senate vote that he's going to win if it's just the challenge to the constitutionality of putting a former president on trial. But his apparent desire to interject the wild card of trying to make his unmakeable election fraud case is a totally new dimension.

BROWN: That's important because senators don't want to give a platform to the big election lie that helped incite the riot on the Capitol building which is why there's an impeachment trial in the first place. If the lawyers -- and I'm told by sources Trump keeps bringing it up, he wants the election lie talked about, the fact that he believes it was stolen from him, his advisers are telling him, we need to get away from that.

But if the lawyers do his bidding what would the consequences be for them? Like do you think they're actually going to do that?

GINSBERG: I think that if they make representations to the Senate that aren't true, and since none of the representations that President Trump or Rudy Giuliani or Sidney Powell have made -- have turned out to be upheld by a court, that's a pretty steep bar for the lawyers to have to make. And of course you can get in some legal jeopardy if you make false statements to the Senate of the United States.

BROWN: Well, and it would be false if they made any argument that the election was stolen from Trump as we know.

Ben Ginsberg, thank you very much for coming on.

GINSBERG: Thanks, Pamela.

BROWN: And for more on both breaking news stories, David Axelrod joins me. He is a former senior adviser to President Obama, also a CNN senior political commentator and host of the "Axe Files" podcast.

David, two Sundays in a row, that's amazing. Thanks for coming on our show.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to be with you, Pam.

BROWN: So let's start with this breaking news on Trump's impeachment defense team. President Trump's original defense team left because he wanted them to argue that the election was stolen. So do you think these new attorneys will have to agree to that? I mean, what will that mean for senators if they're going to argue that giving a platform to this lie that led to the insurrection?

AXELROD: Look, I don't know what the discussions were between these lawyers that he's hired. Now they're reputable lawyers, we'll see what advice they give him and what advice he takes. But look, you know, here's the thing. Donald Trump feels like he's operating with a net in the Senate because we just saw a vote on the constitutionality question. Forty-five Republicans voted with him against the notion of proceedings saying that it was unconstitutional to proceed despite a body of thought that that is not the case.

And he has probably some confidence that his support will hold there. How firm it is if he pushes it, we don't know. But I think, you know, he is obsessed with this notion that the election was taken from him and he wants to use every platform he can to amplify that. And it wouldn't be beyond him to try and force the issue before the United States Senate even in an impeachment conviction trial.

BROWN: But politically that would put these particularly the Republican senators in a tough spot, right? If his lawyers are going to do his bidding in that way.

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AXELROD: It would, though they've become quite agile at explaining away contradictions and -- because they don't want to confront Trump. I think a bunch of them are going to hold onto this life raft of constitutionality.

And, you know, they may express regret that he raised some of these issues in the Senate if they are raised, but at the end of the day they're going to say, you know, it's inappropriate to convict a president who's out of office, although the fact is that by convicting him they also can exclude him from running for office again, which is a tangible punishment for inciting an insurrection on the U.S. Capitol.

BROWN: Maggie Haberman at "The Times" reports Steve Bannon is encouraging Trump to go to the Senate himself saying he's the only one who can sell it. What do you think?

AXELROD: Well, I mean, that would turn it into the kind of circus that would be unproductive but very Trumpian. The question is, if he goes to the Senate, does he expose himself to questions? How would he handle those?

I would imagine that that is the last thing that Republican senators want is him coming to the well of the Senate and turning the thing into a circus by amplifying all these disproven and debunked charges about the election. That would be a disaster for the Republican Party I would think.

BROWN: OK. Quickly before we let you go, I want to ask about the group of 10 Republicans offering the $600 billion package as a compromise on COVID relief. They want to negotiate. Do you see any scenario of the White House working on a bipartisan agreement for, say, $600 billion with Republican and then push the rest that they want through reconciliation?

AXELROD: Well, that has been a formulation that's been suggested. I rather doubt that. I don't think that -- I think -- I understand the Republican motivation because they'd like to vote for the stuff they want to vote for, which is, you know, the narrow package relative to the virus. They don't want to vote for the economic relief that Biden is suggesting.

My guess is Democratic leaders will be opposed to that because they're not going to want to give Republicans essentially an escape hatch to say, well, we voted for the stuff on the virus, we were very bipartisan on that. My guess is there will be some negotiation and it won't be necessarily between him and the Republicans, although they will have an impact on it, but between him and Senator Manchin, for example, a moderate in his own caucus.

Because he needs every Democrat to vote for budget reconciliation for it to pass and Manchin, as you know, Pam, has said he's uncomfortable with the targeting of that relief in the Biden package, thinks it should be more narrow as the Republicans suggested today. So my guess is he's going to have to make some concessions to members of his own caucus in order to pass reconciliation.

But I think there's a real appetite to move forward. There's a sense of urgency given the depth of the crisis.

BROWN: Right.

AXELROD: Both the virus and the economic crisis. My guess is we end up in budget reconciliation.

BROWN: All right. We'll have to see. David Axelrod, thank you so much for coming on.

AXELROD: OK. Good to see you.

BROWN: Well, CNN is uncovering new video. Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene is making repeated support -- statements of support for the execution of top Democrats. The big question, will she face consequences? Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace joins me live to discuss.

Plus the race to vaccinate intensifies as new variants of the virus spread across the country. Former member of Biden Transition COVID Advisory Board Dr. Celine Gounder joins me live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:17:53]

BROWN: In the battle against the coronavirus pandemic tonight two things. One is heartbreaking, the other slightly uplifting. Johns Hopkins University today is revealing that this month, January, was the deadliest month of this pandemic in the United States. That number more than 95,500. That is how many people died from COVID in the U.S. just in January.

Think of that huge number this way. That's more than the number of Americans killed in the Korean War and Vietnam War combined. In just one month in this country.

Joining me now is Dr. Celine Gounder, former member of the Biden Transition COVID Advisory Board and former New York City assistant commissioner of health.

Welcome to the show once again, Dr. Gounder. I want to talk about the numbers we're seeing on our screens right now. Although we're seeing cases and hospitalizations drop right now, there's so much we don't know yet about these variants and the fact is they may not all be coming from overseas. We don't know.

Listen to something Dr. Chris Pernell had to say.

OK, so I think we're having some trouble finding that sound, but basically she was saying because in the U.S. there isn't a good sequencing system, there could be all these other variants in the U.S. that we don't even know about. So how much of all this is a concern to you?

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, FORMER MEMBER, BIDEN TRANSITION COVID ADVISORY BOARD: Unfortunately, over the last decades, not just the last years but really over decades we have really underinvested in our public health systems, so that includes laboratory systems. that includes tech system, and that's what surveillance, this genomic surveillance relies on, is a combination of high tech laboratory capacity and tech capacity. And unfortunately, we have not invested in that. We have not been

doing routine genomic surveillance. Countries like Europe have been and that's part of the reason that they were able to keep a better eye on the situation, to be aware of when these variants emerged. It is certainly possible that we do have our own variants emerging here.

[19:20:04]

We have one we know that emerged in Ohio, another in California, and there may be others yet. But without doing testing at scale, it's very hard to know.

BROWN: And does all of this increase the urgency right now with getting vaccinated?

GOUNDER: So we have a couple of variants that are of particular concern. You have one from the U.K. which is certainly more transmissible, which means more transmission, more cases, more hospitalizations, more deaths. So that much we know about the U.K. variant for sure. It is possible it may also cause more severe disease and be deadly that way as well.

There are two others that are also of concern, one from South Africa, one from Brazil. And those are concerning in part because they may evade the immune response that you get from natural infection and possibly also vaccination. The vaccines we have right now work very well against all of the variants, but there is a trend in the wrong direction with the Brazil and South Africa strains, and so it is a red flag that we need to be developing new vaccines.

In the meantime, we absolutely need to be rolling out vaccines as quickly as possible and doubling down on the things that we know work, the masking and the social distancing.

BROWN: Right. We heard a very troubling comment this morning from vaccine expert Michael Osterholm. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, CENTER TO INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: The fact is that the surge that is likely to occur with this new variant from England is going to happen in the next six to 14 weeks. And if we see that happen, which my 45 years in the trenches tells us we will, we are going to see something like we have not seen yet in this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: He says we should be trying to get first shots into as many people as possible right now and not worry so much about second shots. Do you agree?

GOUNDER: So Michael and I both served on the Advisory Board together, and this is something we debated extensively as a group over the last couple of months. You know, do you give just a first dose, do you hold off on the second dose especially in light of the emergence of these variants? And as a group at least we had agreed based on the science that is currently available it is simply not possible to recommend a big delay in giving the second dose.

We don't know how robust and long-lived immunity from vaccination with the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines would be with only one dose. And especially with the emergence of these variants that are escaping immune responses, the last thing you would want to do is confer a weaker partial immune response that could produce more variants through immune pressure. So, you know, in the absence of data, it's very difficult to make that kind of recommendation.

BROWN: All right. Very important perspective there.

Dr. Celine Gounder, great to have you on. Thank you.

Well, amid calls for Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene's ouster from Congress, one Republican senator is demanding his party stand up to her controversial statements. But why aren't more Republicans following suit?

Congresswoman Nancy Mace joins me live up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:27:43]

BROWN: Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene has spent the weekend scrubbing her social media accounts after CNN's K-File uncovered a spate of old posts supporting fringe conspiracies and calling for violence.

Here's just a sample of her extremist social media rhetoric before taking office.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): We can't allow this just to be -- you know, just to let it go. You can't allow it to just transfer power peacefully like Joe Biden wants and allow him to become our president because he did not win this election. He's guilty of treason. It's a crime punishable by death is what treason is. Nancy Pelosi is guilty of treason.

So-called plane that crashed into the Pentagon. It's odd there's never any evidence shown for a plane in the Pentagon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Republicans are split on how to handle the backlash over Greene's remarks, but earlier today Senator Rob Portman offered up one of the strongest Republican condemnations of Greene yet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PORTMAN: I think Republican leaders ought to stand up and say it is totally unacceptable what she's said. I saw a couple of videos over the weekend and, you know, one had to do with violence as I see it. And there's no place for violence in our political dialogue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So for some perspective on this let me bring in a fellow freshman Republican in the House, Congresswoman Nancy Mace of South Carolina.

Congresswoman, thank you for coming on the show.

REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): Of course. And thank you for having me. What a weird and strange time we live in today, isn't it?

BROWN: I think we can all say we are all in that situation together even as divided as this country feels. It has been weird for all of us. And --

MACE: I would say a lot of us are heartbroken, too, seeing this go on in our country.

BROWN: I agree. I think heartbroken is a really good way to put it. I think we can all agree on that, too. You, given how you're viewing all this, you have been vocal about holding people in your party accountable for conspiracies and extremism.

MACE: Right.

BROWN: I want to play something you said about this earlier this month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MACE: I want to be a new voice for the Republican Party, and that's one of the reasons I've spoken out so strongly against the president, against these QAnon conspiracy theorists that led us in a constitutional crisis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: But then Congresswoman Greene was apparently rewarded for her --

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MACE: It's just wrong, and we've got to put a stop to it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: But then, Congresswoman Greene was apparently rewarded for her extremist conspiracy views with a great call with former President Trump. What do you think should be done to hold her accountable?

MACE: Well, I'm going to tell you right now, I'm not going to defend crazy. We've seen crazy on both sides of the aisle in our country, especially over the last four years. There are a number of tools.

Some of the things that you played tonight, they are first that I have actually heard of them and I'm sort of stunned. Like, I watched "SNL" last night, and it sounds like it's all a joke, and then when you hear the quotes, it's not.

But you know, in this country and in Congress, our leadership, we know that Leader McCarthy has said he's going to talk with colleague this week, and there are a number of tools, of things that could be used. We have a lot of issues facing our country right now. But crazy is not just limited to the Republican Party. We see it in the Democratic Party, too.

We've seen anti-Semitism in certain members of the squad. We saw a Bernie Sanders supporter shoot at G.O.P. members during their softball game. We've seen Maxine Waters talk about using assault or, you know, going after Republicans who are members of the President Trump's staff.

I mean, this has been going on for a number of years. And so, it's just really tough to watch it on both sides of the aisle and this is where we are today.

BROWN: But this is -- I mean, this is what -- let's focus on what we're seeing play out right here. I mean, we could have a long talk about, you know, your views across the aisle and so forth.

So let's focus on the fact that a sitting Member of Congress is espousing these views, talking about assassinating Democrats and conspiracy theories, like, you know, Joe Biden didn't actually win the election, which is completely false.

I mean, there that's a false equivalent. You can't say there's any equivalent to that.

MACE: Well, I mean, I'm old enough to remember when Cynthia McKinney assaulted a Capitol Hill police officer and wasn't expelled. I mean, that was a number of years ago, but that happened also.

I mean, I think the problem that we see, I think one of the reasons that I was so fed up with politics, and one of the reasons I ran for Congress is that they're just BS on both sides of the aisle, and we've got to have strong voices that will work hard for the people.

I'm looking around right now. Just two weeks ago, South Carolina was dead last in vaccination dosages. We've got people out of work. We've got people sick with COVID. We have people dying from COVID-19. We've got businesses shutting down.

And I literally feel like I am sitting in an episode of "Jerry Springer" as a Member of Congress right now. There's craziness all over the place and all over the capital, it's disturbing.

BROWN: Okay, so let's -- but right now -- right now, you have a sitting Member of Congress, who is in the Republican Party who is espousing these extremist conspiracy views, how should be -- how should she be held accountable?

MACE: Well, the Leader McCarthy said he would speak with her this week. I don't know when she said some of these crazy things. I don't know what timeframe before and after she was elected.

BROWN: They were before she was in Congress.

MACE: Right. And so, you know, one of the questions we have is, you know, do you look at taking away the voters that elected her to office? I mean, we just had a number of people try to overturn the results of the presidential election, and now here we are trying to overturn the results of a congressional election whether you like it or not.

BROWN: But are you disappointed that -- are you disappointed that McCarthy hasn't publicly condemned those comments yet? I mean, yes, he's supposed to talk to her. We don't know what that's going to entail. Would you have liked to see a more forceful condemnation from more Republicans?

MACE: Now, every day that goes on, like, this weekend, it's like watching the "Crazy Train," I had to turn off Twitter because it was just too much. And I don't know, every day we're learning something new about some of the comments that are made. And I don't -- I don't speak for the leadership.

I do hope and I'm looking at -- we're seeing it right now in live that the Republican Party is going to need to spend some time rebuilding our party and rebuilding our country, and I wanted to be a part of that. I mean, we have a lot of issues facing our nation today.

BROWN: I do want to ask you actually about that, because unlike most of your Republican colleagues, you did not object to the Electoral College results.

MACE: Right.

BROWN: Do you think there are two factions within the G.O.P. now? Those who are into Trump and conspiracy theories and those who don't, like you and Congressman Kinzinger, for example?

MACE: Right and there are those of us that supported President Trump's policies, but just we drew the line at the violence on January 6th. I mean, that's what was so devastating. But we do have two factions within the party right now. It feels like -- it feels very divided.

We've seen that in the Democratic Party, too, when you've had far left fringes do the same sort of thing over the last couple of years. The pendulum swings both ways, and that's where -- that's why my greatest disappointment right now, I am --

BROWN: Right, but this is pretty remarkable to see so many -- so many Republicans and yes, Democrats have objected to an election before, but to see so many Republicans object to that and sort of fanned the flames of a President, a sitting President in office saying the election was stolen from him, which is just isn't true.

MACE: Right. And there were many things that were said. I mean, the other thing was that Congress, one of the claims was that Congress could overthrow the results of the Electoral College and Article II, Section 1 Clause 2 of the Constitution doesn't say that.

This was a ceremonial that some people said that Vice President Mike Pence could overturn the results of the Electoral College; also not true, and that's one of the reasons I've been such a vocal, I think, voice throughout this entire thing is to make sure that I'm authentic to the people that I represent, that we tell the truth and that we're honest with the American people.

[19:35:15]

MACE: I mean, we have a lot of healing to go in the future. I mean, I am worried. I'm a mom of two kids in middle school and I hate the conversations that I have to have with my children. I hate hearing about people losing their jobs. I hate hearing about folks who are 70 and older and haven't been able to get the vaccination yet.

It's just -- it's heartbreaking time for us right now we've got to find a way to have these tough conversations. These are not easy. And these are very uncomfortable conversations I've had on national TV. I've done it quietly to with members of my own conference. Some of those conversations were leaked.

I've been very stern and very strong, even against members of my own party, because I just feel like we don't have the moral authority to point our fingers to the left if we don't take accountability and responsibility for ourselves.

BROWN: And you're talking about with Marjorie Taylor Greene, right, what of your interactions been with her?

MACE: I am talking about overall. I mean, I love Ronald Reagan's 11th Commandment, I'm not going to speak in those terms about another colleague, but those conversations have been leaked to the press. They've been out there.

I used some very colorful four letter words. I was really angry about learning some of the things and that was three weeks ago, and I'm going to be -- continue to be a strong voice of the Republican Party, and I'm not going to peddle on to the QAnon conspiracy theory.

BROWN: Congresswoman Nancy Mace, stay with us. Still a lot to talk about after this break. We're going to talk more about bipartisanship and how you plan to work with the Biden administration.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:40:40]

BROWN: Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace of South Carolina is back with me. Congresswoman, thanks for staying with us. I'm just wondering now that millions of people believe what the President, the lie that he spread, do you think that more of your Republican colleagues need to come out and say, this was a fair and free election. Joe Biden was legitimately elected? MACE: Well, right now, and many of us spoke out in December --

November-December after the election about all of that, too. But right now one of the best ways we can show that is finding ways to work with the Biden administration.

You know, our goals at the end of the day should be very similar for the American people, but how we get there is often going to be different. And I'm going to be reaching across the aisle working with members of the Democratic Party, and I hope that more people do and that we find ways to work with the Biden administration.

One of the things that I'm really excited about right now is one of the committee assignments I'm on is Transportation and Infrastructure. We've been talking about a Transportation Infrastructure Bill for a very long time for a number of years. It's desperately needed. And that's a place where we can work together. And I hope to be able to work with members on both sides of the aisle to accomplish just that.

BROWN: And those could be areas where we could see bipartisanship. That's the expectation. But basically, you're saying the best way to show that Biden was legitimately elected is to actually work with the Biden administration on these issues.

You were recently asked where Trump fits in your vision of the G.O.P., and you did not hold back and your response. You said, "He doesn't. The actions on Wednesday are totally indefensible. (Of course, that was January 6). We need to rebuild our country and our party from scratch. We have to start over." Why do you think so many in your party are so clinging to him, even though he's out of office? You saw McCarthy went to visit him, why do you think that is?

MACE: We know he has his own very successful brand, and that's attractive to a lot of people. For me, it's really about the policies. We had low taxes under his administration.

In my own congressional district, our unemployment rate was 1.86 percent. We had Operation Warp Speed, getting a vaccination cleared in 10 months versus 10 years. There are a lot of accomplishments that we can be very proud of.

But when January 6th happened, it really set -- it set us back. I mean, it wiped out all of those accomplishments, we lost a lot of credibility. And one of the things, one of the reasons I spoke up so strongly is that I just really feel that if I don't hold myself and my party accountable, then I can't then go after the left when they espouse violent rhetoric as well and we've got a hold for all of us, whether you're Republican or Democrat, we've got to hold all of ourselves accountable, because what we say, does have consequences.

I've had threats on my life, as have had Democratic Members of Congress. I mean, this is a very trying time for all of us. And I'm asking each of us on both sides of the aisle to look inward, to say, tomorrow is a new day, what can we do to make ourselves and our country better?

The American people truly deserve that right now. They are working hard, and we've got to work hard for them. That is the least that we could do.

BROWN: But right now, as we've talked about, your party is in a tough spot. I mean, some of your Republican colleagues are calling for Liz Cheney to be punished, essentially, because she voted in favor of impeachment. What are your thoughts about that?

MACE: Right. Well, I mean, one of the things that I think people are really frustrated with in politics is the inconsistency and it doesn't matter what side of the aisle that you're on. But it's one thing to be upset and frustrated or angry about the President being banned, you know, having dissenting voices banned on Twitter, but then to want to ban a dissenting voice in our Republican Party.

She's a strong leader, you don't have to agree with her. But part of the American experiment is that we have the ability to debate ideas and policy and positions without being attacked, without being silenced, without having our First Amendment rights taken away.

The ability to agree to disagree and not attack one another physically, or emotionally or otherwise. And so I think that's a lot of frustration that I know I personally have, and that's one of the reasons I got into politics in the first place.

We've got to be consistent about how we treat each other.

BROWN: Very quickly before I let you go, you voted not to impeach even though you've condemned the President that he was partly responsible for the riots. If that's not impeachable, then what is?

MACE: Well, the problem with impeachment in the way the House did it is we debated impeachment on the floor for two hours. We eliminated any right to due process. There was no hearing. There was no investigation open. It didn't go through the Judiciary Committee. It wasn't investigated in that manner, even a special committee.

And if we take away the right to due process to the President of the United States, then we take up -- I mean, what is to say government won't take away the right to due process for every American. And so we've got to look at for the same reasons I voted for to certify the Electoral College or the Constitution. That's what it said we had to do, impeachment should be treated the same way.

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MACE: And therefore we weaponized impeachment. We saw a member of the Republican Party then say they're going to file Articles of Impeachment against President Biden on the day he was sworn in. I mean, we've weaponized the impeachment process. We've got to put a stop to all of this.

BROWN: Congresswoman Nancy Mace, thank you for coming on. We hope that you will continue to come on the show to lend your perspective.

MACE: Thank you so much.

BROWN: Thank you. And up next, widespread unrest across Russia. We take you inside today's protest led by supporters of jailed opposition leader, Alexei Navalny.

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BROWN: All across Russia today widespread rage and thousands of arrests and cities throughout the country, protesters took their anger to the streets and public squares demanding the release of an opposition leader and very vocal critic of the Russian government. CNN's Frederik Pleitgen is in Moscow tonight.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Pamela, the protesters certainly defied a massive crackdown by the police here in Moscow today.

The authorities shut down large parts of the Russian capital's inner city including several subway stops. They also detained thousands of people in the entire country, and yet the protesters managed to get out not just in the Russian capital, but in many cities across Russia. Here's what we saw.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN (voice over): Russian security forces showing no mercy cracking down on protesters demanding the release of opposition leader, Alexei Navalny, but some telling us they want more fundamental changes in Russia.

"I came here today, not only because of Navalny," this man says, "I think it's more because of the lack of freedom and because of this demonstrative lawlessness that's going on."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want a free election. I want change in our government.

PLEITGEN (voice over): Independent monitoring group, OVD-Info says thousands were detained across Russia. Many protesters, but also some journalists, including briefly me.

PLEITGEN (on camera): Sorry, sorry, sir. All right. All right. It's okay. It's okay.

PLEITGEN (voice over): While I was released after a few minutes, many others were not so lucky. The U.S. Secretary of State condemned what he called harsh tactics against protesters and journalists.

Riot cops often wielding clubs and in some cases, even Tasers like in this troubling video from Moscow.

But as the protesters marched to the Russian Capitol, many motorists honked their horns in apparent support as they drove past.

Alexei Navalny, whose appeal for released from detention was denied this past week called for the nationwide protests. Vladimir Putin's government reacted swiftly in an unprecedented move, shutting down large parts of central Moscow including 10 subway stops in an effort to stop the protests, which authorities say are unsanctioned.

But people came out in masses across this vast country, often braving freezing temperatures like Yekaterinburg, and often faced with a harsh police response like in St. Petersburg, where OVD-Info says hundreds were detained.

"Release, Release," they chanted referring to Alexei Navalny.

Navalny remains in detention and faces another court hearing this week locked away, but not silenced, as many of his supporters have vowed to continue their action.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN (on camera): And you know, those problems continue for Alexei Navalny. His next court hearing is actually scheduled for this coming Tuesday where he could spend years in prison if he is convicted there. And again, his supporters have called for protests to take place in front of the courthouse -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right, thanks so much for, Fred. Right now, the coronavirus is hitting Brazil hard and at the same time a country struggles to get its citizens vaccinated. We're going to go inside the hardest hit areas to find out why.

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[19:56:49]

BROWN: Health experts this weekend are sounding a major alarm about the coronavirus pandemic and how it is suddenly surging in Brazil. It's happening at a time when the vaccine rollout there is hitting one snag after another. CNN's Matt Rivers has more.

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MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Some of Sao Paulo sickest come here, the COVID-19 Ward at Emilio Rivas Institute of Infectious Disease. Here, a man struggles for air that won't come. He is put under and intubated and no one knows if he'll survive.

Nurse Monica Aparencida Calazans tries to make sure he does. She says, "I've already lost eight of my colleagues to COVID. It is such a cruel disease." And yet in a way, she's lucky because in mid-January, Calazans became the first Brazilian to receive the vaccine, no small feat given that Brazil's vaccine rollout is a mess as hospitals across the country overflow with COVID-19 patients, only about one million doses have been administered, a stunningly low number given Brazil's decades long success in vaccinating its population.

RIVERS (on camera): You've got the infrastructure, the experience, but you don't have the product to get people vaccinated.

NATALIA PASTERNAK, MICROBIOLOGIST: It's really frustrating. We got everything. We just needed a better President and a better Minister of Health. RIVERS (voice over): President Jair Bolsonaro has been widely

criticized for not securing vaccine supplies earlier, spreading misinformation that could undermine confidence in taking the vaccine.

He said quote, "If you become an alligator, that's your problem. If you're a woman that grows a beard or a man's voice becomes high pitched, I have nothing to do with that." Though he argues no country would quote "do better than my government is doing," Brazil has the second highest coronavirus death toll worldwide and as we saw in the City of Manaus last week, health systems have collapsed across the country.

A deal with AstraZeneca to manufacture 100 million doses of that vaccine in Brazil by July has yet to produce a single dose. There's tentative agreements to buy hundreds of millions of other doses, but no one knows when or if they'll arrive. That's led some to take drastic action.

Sao Paulo's State Governor Joao Doria tells us he went around the Bolsonaro administration last year and negotiated with China directly for supplies of the Sinovac vaccine. He secured millions of doses only to be forced to turn over those supplies to the Federal government.

JOAO DORIA, SAO PAULO STATE GOVERNOR: It was a big mistake of the Bolsonaro government to choose just one vaccine, the AstraZeneca vaccine and not three, four or five vaccines.

RIVERS (voice over): Bolsonaro has said Brazil would buy more vaccines as they become quote "available" in the market. But who knows when that will be given the current worldwide demand.

RIVERS (on camera): In fact, many Brazilians livid with protests like this are becoming more common. They are seeing surging case numbers, a new potentially more transmissible COVID variant and a pandemic that has no end in sight, all because they say of an inept Federal government.

RIVERS (voice over): Back at the COVID board, it is easy to see why they are angry. We're told that this woman is now brain dead, kept alive by machines. Her family will have to decide when to give the go ahead to shut them off, another death that might have been prevented with a vaccine.

Matt Rivers, CNN, Sao Paulo, Brazil.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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