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Sen. Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) is Interviewed about Stimulus and Impeachment; Chicago In-Person Learning Delayed; Safety of In-Person Learning and Vaccine Updates. Aired 9:30-10a

Aired February 01, 2021 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:30:38]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Happening today, President Biden will meet with ten Republican senators to see if he can get some Republican buy- in to COVID relief. Republicans want a much slimmer plan, about a third of Biden's proposal. Can the two sides find common ground or will Democrats press forward without Republicans? We'll be watching.

With me now is Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland. He's on the Budget Committee.

Senator, thanks so much for taking the time this morning.

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Jim, it's good to be with you.

SCIUTTO: So these two offers are pretty far apart, $1.9 trillion from the president and Democrats, less than a third of that from these ten Republicans.

Should the president and Democrats negotiate to find a middle ground?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, they are far apart. And I know that President Biden is eager to listen to what the Republican senators have to say. But his overriding objective will be to pass something that meets the moment. And if you listen to economists across the political spectrum, they say that given the big hit to the economy we saw in the last quarter, it's important to go big here. And so I look forward to getting a report from those conversations.

In the Congress, we will be double tracking this progress, meaning, we will also move forward so we have the option to pass something through budget reconciliation because we don't want talks to drag on and on and on without a good result.

SCIUTTO: OK.

What specifically would you support that the president and Democrats negotiating on? It's CNN's reporting, for instance, that the president is willing to scale back the scope of those stimulus checks to limit them to families making less than $50,000 a year. On that issue, do you believe the president should negotiate?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, I think that's an area where we should have a conversation. We can further target it, but it is really important that families that are really hurting get the full amount. And, of course, the president campaigned in Georgia for the two Senate seats, the Democratic senators who won there, on this issue.

So, look, we can have a conversation, but, at the end of the day, you -- looking at the whole package is what's important. If you look at what they've proposed, it's less than a third in terms of total support for the American people.

SCIUTTO: Minimum wage. Another one where there's a deep Republican opposition to it. And even some moderate Democrats.

Would you consider holding a $15 minimum wage to another day, in effect, get through stimulus relief now, save that for another legislative proposal?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, Jim, this proposal already has a phase-in over a period of time. It doesn't go to $15 an hour right away. So I see no reason why we shouldn't get started right away on this issue. It's important that people be paid a minimum wage. And if you look at the current minimum wage at the federal level, people work full time, they're below the federal poverty line. So that's unacceptable. I don't see any reason to delay on that.

And, by the way, to the extent that people are being paid a minimum wage, it ends up costing the taxpayer less with it comes to other safety net programs.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

OK, impeachment, because, of course, in a week a second impeachment trial begins of this president. One question, you do have some of your Democratic colleagues, Tim Kaine among them, who say, listen, conviction ain't going to happen here. Let's find a separate path. Let's censure the president instead.

What's your response to that option?

VAN HOLLEN: My review is we need to go forward with a trial. It is our constitutional obligation at this point. And especially as we hear Republican senators, some of them retreating from the obvious, which is, you know, some of them had been willing to, you know, confront the facts that the president lost fair and square but now it looks like, you know, Donald Trump is talking about putting on a defense based on the big lie. And, to me, that just says it's really important that as a country we come face to face with the facts and the truth. And I think a trial will help do that.

SCIUTTO: Some Republicans have said they still have an open mind.

[09:35:00] Rob Portman said so, he'll listen to the evidence. Mitch McConnell has said he will listen to the evidence.

Do you believe your Republican colleagues when you say that their mind is open as this trial begins or that their minds have already been made up?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, I think some of them who are saying that, I think it's genuine. I think they're waiting to hear all the facts. But we were clearly disappointed by the vote the other day where a lot of them voted to say, we don't want to hear the facts, right? We don't want to hear the facts. We don't want to see the facts. We want to just dismiss that.

So given that vote, I take it with a little bit of a grain of salt. But that said, I hope that they will live up to that commitment that they've made.

SCIUTTO: Just quickly on that vote, because there are, Portman among them, senators who have said, listen, by voting to debate the constitutionality of trying a former president, I didn't preclude still voting to convict, that that was just about opening debate.

I mean do you buy that argument?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, that's fair. Look, you -- with respect to what Senator Portman is saying, right, other senators like the person who offered the amendment, Senator Rand Paul, has said, well, look, the result shows that it was unconstitutional. So you have different Republican senators providing very different interpretations for why they voted that way.

So, look, the main thing is to get these facts, these very raw, vivid facts that clearly show that the president incited violence at the Capitol. We have the testimony of the people who were involved in violent actions at the Capitol. And the fact that the president, by all accounts, is still trying to put together a legal team focused on the big lie just underscores the need for this country to confront this issue as part of accountability, as part of moving forward.

SCIUTTO: Senator Van Hollen, we appreciate you joining the show this morning.

VAN HOLLEN: Good to be with you, Jim. Thanks.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Chicago Public Schools are delaying the return to in-person learning as the district and the teachers are battling over whether it's safe or not for the teachers to go back. A big question is, will vaccinating all of the teachers do enough? Will it help to reopen safely? We'll talk about this next.

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[09:41:36]

SCIUTTO: Well, students in Chicago can return to their classrooms tomorrow for in-person learning. That was pushed back a day because the school district and union have yet to reach an agreement on how to reopen public schools.

HARLOW: That's right. Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot told teachers yesterday there will be consequences if they take part in a, quote, sickout that had been planned for today to protest the reopening.

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MAYOR LORI LIGHTFOOT (D), CHICAGO: Those who do not -- who do not report to work, and I hate to even go there, but we're going to have to take action.

We have to have a sense of urgency and passion because our children's lives are hanging in the balance.

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HARLOW: Let's go to our colleague, Omar Jimenez. He joins us in Chicago.

So it's 8:42 in the morning there, Omar. I suppose we'd know by now if a number of the teachers are participating in that sickout. Are they?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. At this moment they are choosing to continue with remote learning. And while there has been some progress made in negotiations, it's clearly not enough because the kids, the little over 60,000 kindergarten through 8th grade students, a portion of the total school population here in the nation's third largest school district, was now pushed to tomorrow.

So, instead, what we are seeing today is a school district that says any teacher who doesn't show up to in-person learning, as they should have today, will be marked as absent without leave. And they say then tomorrow any teachers who are absent without leave will be locked out of their remote teaching capabilities. And that part is significant because, in the past, the Chicago Teachers Union had told its member to be prepared to strike specifically if the school district retaliated in that manner.

It would be the most drastic step in what has been a contentious negotiating process leading up to this point. Just ask Chicago Teachers Union President Jesse Sharkey.

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JESSE SHARKEY, PRESIDENT, CHICAGO TEACHERS UNION: We were disappointed about the way this has gone. And the board clearly began this process telling us explicitly in various legal briefs that they had no obligation to partner over whether or when schools reopened. You're not seeing the compromise at the table that we would need in order to get agreements on what we think are just a handful of important issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP) JIMENEZ: Now, that said, both the teacher's union and the Chicago Public School Districts have reached tentative agreements on four key areas. One, health and safety protocols. Two, ventilation. Contact tracing and then health and safety committees to help ensure safety and mitigation measures are implemented consistently. But they've still got work to do specifically when it comes to vaccines. Something that teachers are eligible for in this 1B phase but can't quite get as supply continues to try and keep up with demand.

Poppy. Jim.

HARLOW: Omar, thank you so much. It is so -- so important what's happening in Chicago right now.

Let's bring from Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, epidemiologist and former Detroit health commissioner.

It's good to have you.

I'd like to get your reaction after listening to what I'm about to play from the head of the CDC, Dr. Rochelle Walensky. Listen to what she said about the data that they just found. It just came out last week on schools and COVID.

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DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: Accumulating data suggests school settings do not result in rapid spread of COVID-19 when mitigation measures are followed.

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HARLOW: So given that new data from the CDC on schools and being able to open safely, they know so much more now than they did even in August or September, should more schools in America be open for in- person learning?

[09:45:09]

DR. ABDUL EL-SAYED, EPIDEMIOLOGIST AND FORMER DETROIT HEALTH COMMISSIONER: Yes, I want to step back. We all know that we want our kids in school and we all know that we have to do that safely. Well, the important thing is that Dr. Walensky shared there was that when the proper mitigation efforts are followed.

And the discussion that's being had right now between the teachers union and the teachers, as well as the city of Chicago, really is about those safety protocols. And, of course, we know that vaccines are a critical step to getting there and we know a lot of this has been flummoxed by a federal response led by the Trump administration that has not gotten vaccines where they need to be.

And so we can appreciate, all of us, how important it is to have our kids in school and to have our kids learning. And also the need to do that safely. And the fear that -- that teachers have that they could be potentially in places where they would be unsafe and putting kids and themselves in harm's way.

HARLOW: One hundred percent. They deserve -- not only do we want them to be safe, they deserve to be safe. But I -- I guess I'm just asking, from a medical perspective, from an expert, given what the CDC found in their extensive studying of this, do you believe more schools in America should be opened in person, especially elementary schools?

EL-SAYED: Yes, I do think that there is a time now to be opening those schools now that we have the evidence to suggests how to do this.

But what's critical right now is to make sure that everybody can meet that caveat that Dr. Walensky put forward, which is when we can do that safely.

And, unfortunately, the resources haven't been there to empower every school district in America, particularly the (INAUDIBLE) ones, to do that safely.

HARLOW: Yes. Yes. No, that --

EL-SAYED: And so if we can get those resources in place, I think we can get there.

HARLOW: That's a really good point. And you see the divide even more. I'm sure you see it in Michigan, in Detroit between the private schools that have all this extra money to do that with and the public schools that have been waiting and waiting and waiting for it, which is just fundamentally unfair for America's kids.

On the vaccine news, the Johnson & Johnson news that we got out last -- on Friday, yes, the efficacy number was lower than Moderna and Pfizer, but I just -- I just want to remind people that it found that the J&J vaccine, along with Moderna and Pfizer, 100 percent of hospitalizations and 100 percent of COVID deaths, right?

So if people are hesitant to get J&J, I wonder what your message is to them.

EL-SAYED: Look, this is a safe and effective vaccine. And it's now one of many safe and effective vaccines. And it also has the advantage of being a one-shot vaccine. And it does not have to be stored at the same extremely low temperatures as at least the Pfizer vaccine does. This is an important step in our fight against COVID-19.

And I also want to remind folks, right, that it's not just about the vaccine that we take, it's about closing off our bodies as a potential space where a virus could mutate and become one of those new variants. And, of course, this is the broader race right now, how fast can we vaccinate people versus how fast is the virus going to mutate and take on the capacity to potentially evade our vaccines. And so we've got to get people vaccinated as fast as possible. The new J&J vaccine is an important tool in that armamentarium and I would encourage everybody to take the first vaccine that is available to them.

HARLOW: Right. And your point about it doesn't have to be stored in such cold temperatures, means less will probably go to waste, and just one shot, both -- both big advantages.

Dr. El-Sayed, thank you. And, I should note, congratulations. You have a brand-new book. It just came out. Here it is. "Medicare for All: A Citizen's Guide." We appreciate it. Good to have you.

EL-SAYED: Thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: Sure.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Troops in Myanmar have seized control of that country in a military coup. This after claiming that Myanmar's elections in November were fraudulent. Where does that sound familiar? We're going to have a live report, next.

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[09:53:10]

HARLOW: Well, breaking overnight, Myanmar's military has staged a coup, arresting and detaining leaders of the ruling party, imposing a state of emergency there for one year.

SCIUTTO: This is notable. Myanmar's army justified the coup by claiming widespread election fraud and irregularities in last November's election when civilian defacto leader Aung San Suu Kyi, a former winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, won -- her party won -- it wasn't even close, 90 to 95 percent of the seats.

CNN's Ivan Watson is live in Hong Kong.

Ivan, it's a notable connection, is it not? You have a U.S. president claiming fraud and here you have a military coup making the same excuse.

Tell us what's happening there now and how it came about.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the parallels with the timing of the U.S. and Myanmar, electoral cycles, the arguments for overthrowing the elections, there are some striking similarities here, Jim and Poppy.

This has been a classic military coup. Hours before the newly elected parliament was supposed to be seated, the military went out under cover of darkness and began detaining the leaders of the civilian government, including Aung San Sue Kyi, who kind of hold this kind of prime minister position, taking some of these elected parliament members away under cover of darkness.

The country's TV channels were all turned off with the exception of military owned television. And that's where an anchor announced that the country was going into a year-long state of emergency and that the new ruler of the country would be the commander of the armed forces, a general named Min Aung Hlaing. Now, how did the country get to this place? Well, there had been this awkward power sharing agreement where the military had kind of pulled back and allowed Aung San Suu Kyi's party, after they won elections in 2015, to control some of the government for the past five years.

[09:55:06]

And in the November 8 national election in Myanmar, Aung San Suu Kyi's party won big. They clobbered the military's political party, all but decimated it at the polls. The election was commended by organizations like the Carter Center, election observers and by the country's own election commission, which just announced last week that there weren't enough problems to overturn the results.

The military, after it lost, called fraud, it called foul and now it has simply staged a coup to overturn the results that it didn't like, potentially plunging Myanmar back into dark periods of uncertainty in military dictatorship.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Only about ten years after they turn -- made a turn to democracy there.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Ivan Watson, we know you'll continue following the story. Thanks very much.

HARLOW: Yes, Ivan, thank you for that critically important reporting.

Well, next, a test of President Biden's bipartisan promise. He is set to meet with a group of Republicans to review their counter offer on COVID stimulus relief. Will he work across the aisle or push this through on party lines? Our live coverage is ahead.

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