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Interview with Axios Reporter Jonathan Swan; Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) Describes Capitol Riot Experience; Five Law Enforcement Officers Shot During Florida Arrest. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired February 02, 2021 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:32:48]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, a new, truly disturbing account of tumultuous days -- final days -- leading up to the insurrection inside the White House.

"Axios" reporter Jonathan Swan is now detailing what was a conspiracy theory-laden, profanity-laced shouting match, but a real question: Perhaps an attempt at a military coup? Jonathan Swan calling it the craziest moment of the Trump presidency, Jonathan joins us now. You know, and I encourage our viewers to read the whole thing because there are details in there that I think you have to digest.

But you have Sidney Powell, a lawyer; you have Michael Flynn, former National Security adviser; you have Patrick Byrne, the former head of Overstock.com. But they gain access to the president, they present him with lies that have already been debunked and try to push him, in effect, to use the military to overturn the results of the election. I mean, it's truly disturbing.

JONATHAN SWAN, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, AXIOS: Yes, it's one of the darkest -- I've been covering President Trump for five years, and I don't know of a darker, more demented meeting that he's held. And you know, there's a pretty low bar for that, given (ph) the final days.

But this was a four-hour meeting that started in the Oval Office the evening of December the 18th, and it rolled into Trump's private residence up to his living room. And it was basically four White House lawyers, three in the room, one on speakerphone -- the National Security adviser came in on speakerphone -- and then the cast of characters that you just described.

And they were pushing the president to use the U.S. military to go around the country seizing Dominion voting machines. They were pushing to invoke the National Emergencies Act and use a 2018 executive order to try and overturn a free and fair election.

And the meeting got so heated, it almost actually ended up in a physical fight. General Michael Flynn -- remember, this is not -- we're not talking about someone who's an (ph) outsider (ph), this is someone who was the president's National Security adviser, was on his feet, yelling at the White House lawyers.

It literally got to the point where one of them said, if you want to come over here, come over here. Otherwise -- I'm not going to swear on-air, but you know, just tirades of profanity, just truly bizarre and dark time for this country.

[10:35:10]

SCIUTTO: You do see, as you recount here, White House lawyers pushing back aggressively against this whole idea. But the president himself says, more than once I believe, "At least she" -- Powell here -- "is out there fighting." Do we know how close the president came to taking up this idea?

SWAN: Well, he wanted it to be done. So what happened after this meeting, actually might have been even the day before this meeting, I need to get my -- no, it was the night before.

So the evening before, Trump tried to operationalize some of this. His personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, telephoned Ken Cuccinelli, second in command at the Department of Homeland Security, and asked him if they could use the Department of Homeland Security to seize voting machines. He was very quickly told no, that's not within their legal limit (ph).

So Trump tried to operationalize it, and I think -- look, I don't have reporting that connects the two events, but I don't think it's a huge stretch to wonder why 10 former secretaries of defense, including secretaries who served under President Trump, felt the need to publish that extraordinary letter in early January, saying that the president of the United States should not use the U.S. military to overturn elections. Ask yourself why they felt the need to do that, and I think you start to color in some of the backstory here.

SCIUTTO: Now, you have some characters, including White House aide Eric Herschmann, that stood in the way here, right? And tried to -- well, stood up to the Flynns in the room and so on, counseled the president away.

But I wonder, because some of these characters were around for weeks as the president was pushing baseless lies around the election, and stayed silent, and many did afterwards, even after January 6th. I mean, do you sense an effort of reputation-laundering here by some of them?

SWAN: There are no -- well, maybe there are -- maybe there are people who want to launder their reputations. I mean, my only job is to find out what exactly happened in the room, and every single detail in that story is bulletproof, is completely verified. So you read the story and you know, you can make up your own mind.

But the fact is there are no heroes in this narrative, and I certainly don't present anyone as a hero. The fact is that Sidney Powell's deranged conspiracies were too much even for a team of people who were trying to help the president initially fight, you know, these baseless claims of fraud. So the fact that she had jumped the shark for that team, I think, tells you something.

SCIUTTO: Yes. It's a remarkable -- boy, just how far it went and how much the president took it all up, right? Swallowed it. So close. Listen, I would encourage you folks, if you haven't read it, just Google it, we'll put up -- I already tweeted it out. You've got the read the details, it's an alarming story.

Jonathan Swan, thanks very much.

SWAN: Thanks for having me.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio- Cortez describing in painful detail on Instagram Live, her experience during the Capitol insurrection on January the 6th. She says that she feared for her life as she hid in a bathroom. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): Like, I'm here, and the bathroom door starts going like this, like the bathroom door is behind me or rather in front of me. And I'm like this, and the door hinge is right here. And I just hear, "Where is she? Where is she?" I mean, I thought I was going to die.

These folks who tell us to move on, that it's not a big deal, that we should forget what's happened or even telling us to apologize? These are the same tactics of abusers. And I'm a survivor of sexual assault, and I haven't told many people that in my life, but when we go through trauma, trauma compounds on each other.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Well, in a pair of tweets following that, the congresswoman wrote this, quote, "My story isn't the only story, it's just one story of many of those whose lives were endangered at the Capitol by the lies, the threats and the violence fanned by the cowardice of people who chose personal gain above democracy."

[10:39:36]

We're going to take a quick break, we'll be right back.

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HARLOW: Welcome back. Well, a teacher strike has been temporarily averted in Chicago, the nation's third largest public school district. This is -- negotiations continue over the way forward to educate kids, and if they can get them back physically in the classrooms there.

SCIUTTO: Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot wants schools to reopen for in- person learning this week. The teacher's union says it will not put educators and their families at risk. CNN's Omar Jimenez is live in Chicago this morning.

I mean, what's the middle ground here? I mean, so many school districts across the country opening up, there have been a lot of allowances made for safety. Is there a compromise?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim and Poppy, we've seen this debate happen in places across the country in slightly different forms. Right now, here in Chicago, we're in what's being called a 48- hour cooling-down period. That's essentially negotiations continue but the school district isn't threatening any disciplinary action, which would be the move that could potentially trigger a strike.

Now, these negotiations aren't happening in a vacuum. Yesterday was the day that tens of thousands of Kindergarten through eighth grade students were supposed to return. And part of the push to get at least the option of in-person learning on the table is because the school district says too many kids are falling behind, especially in black and brown communities.

[10:45:13]

But teachers say it's just not safe for them yet, at least they don't feel it's safe for them yet. Here's part of what the union has been asking for throughout the course of these negotiations.

Specifically, they want a reopening metric based on CDC guidance, access to vaccinations for educators, enforceable safety standards in schools, teleworking accommodations for staff with high-risk members in their household, and weekly testing for staff and students.

Now, some of those, they've actually agreed on already including health and safety committees, but also contact tracing, ventilation and other health and safety protocols as well.

And we should also note, they have struck a tentative agreement with the thousands of school support staff, and that union there. But still, nothing with the teachers as these negotiations continue. All the while parents and students are caught in the middle -- Jim, Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Omar Jimenez, thanks so much.

And we'll be right back after a short break.

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[10:50:43]

SCIUTTO: Breaking news now out of Florida, five law enforcement officers believed shot. Rosa Flores is on the scene. Tell us the latest, Rosa.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We are just hearing from the FBI. This is the latest that we know. According to the FBI, two FBI agents have been deceased, three have been wounded, two of those are in stable condition. We understand that a subject is also deceased.

Here is what we learned from Sunrise police. We understand from a PIO on-scene that says that at 6:04 a.m., the FBI and other law enforcement agencies were exercising a warrant at the apartment complex that you see behind me, on a street that's parallel to the street that you see behind me.

According to this PIO, she says that there was a subject that they were looking for. That subject barricaded himself, shots were fired, paramedics were called. And now, we're learning from the FBI that two FBI agents have ben deceased, three are wounded. The suspect has -- is also deceased.

Now, we're learning from the FBI as well that this is a case that involves crimes against children, that's what the warrant that they were exercising this morning was for. That individual barricaded himself, shots were fired, and now we know that there are multiple FBI agents deceased.

Now, Jim, all of this is under investigation. The FBI is also saying that they are not releasing the names of the FBI agents at this time. I'm sure in part, they're trying to contact next of kin.

But again, the breaking news here out of Sunrise, Florida -- and this is in Broward County, just north of Miami, is that two FBI agents are deceased, three of them wounded. The subject that they were looking for, also deceased -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Goodness, heartbreaking news there. We know you will stay on top of it, Rosa Flores in Florida. Thanks very much.

And we'll be right back.

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[10:57:39]

SCIUTTO: Well, it's Groundhog Day, and the Super Bowl seems like Groundhog Day. Tom Brady -- you may have heard of him -- is back in the game once again, making his record 10th -- I mean, 10th appearance in the big game? It's beyond belief.

HARLOW: He said yesterday, now he doesn't know when he's going to stop playing. Andy Scholes has more on this morning's "Bleacher Report." Good morning.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Jim and Poppy. You know, when Brady steps on the field on Sunday, he's going to be the oldest player to ever play in the Super Bowl. He's 43 years old now, showing no signs of slowing down.

You know, Brady has always said he wanted to play until he's 45 years old, but yesterday he said he'll definitely consider playing even past that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM BRADY, QUARTERBACK, TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS: I think I'll know when it's time, so I don't know when that time will come, but I think I'll know.

You put a lot into it, I don't think I can ever go at this game half- assed. You know, I've got to put everything into it. So when I put it all out there, I feel like I can't do that anymore, I don't feel like I can commit to the team in the way that the team needs me, then I think that's probably the time to walk away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: Now, yesterday's Opening Night festivities were all done virtually, in the afternoon, many of the players not a fan of the atmosphere. They couldn't even see the person asking them a question, and they were, many of them ,complaining throughout the day.

And Brady, tweeting a picture of himself doing interviews, saying this year's a little different than the others.

All right, in the NBA last night, Lakers and the Hawks, four fans ejected after a verbal altercation with LeBron. One of those fans' name was Juliana Carlos. She had her mask pulled down at one point, was pointing and yelling at LeBron. She posted her own video of the incident on her Instagram and said she was just defending her husband.

The Lakers were going to win the game, and LeBron said afterwards he misses mixing it up with the fans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEBRON JAMES, FORWARD, LOS ANGELES LAKERS: I miss that interaction, I need that interaction. We as players need that interaction. I don't feel like there was warranted to be kicked out. They might have had a couple drinks maybe, and they could have probably kept it going in the game, it wouldn't have been about the game no more. So the referees did what they had to do.

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SCHOLES: And LeBron later tweeting, "Courtside Karen was MAD MAD!!"

You know, guys, the Hawks allowing 1,300 fans right now, one of the few teams in the league that actually allows fans down there on the court. I'm sure the NBA wasn't very happy to see one of those fans with their mask off, yelling at the players so closely.

[11:00:00]

HARLOW: Yes, yes. No question about it. OK, Andy Scholes, good to have you, thanks so much.

SCHOLES: All right.

HARLOW: And thanks to all of you for joining us today, we will see you here tomorrow morning. I'm Poppy Harlow.

[11:00:00]