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House Impeachment Managers Outline Case Against Trump In New Brief; Soon: Deadline For Trump's Response To Impeachment Article; Democrats Plan To Move Ahead Without GOP On COVID Relief. Aired 11- 11:30a ET

Aired February 02, 2021 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:15]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. Thank you so much for joining us this hour.

With Donald Trump's second impeachment trial one week out, we're getting a window into the case that will be made against him for the first time. In a brief just filed, House impeachment managers, the prosecutors in this trial, accused Donald Trump of intentionally inciting rioters with a month's long campaign saying that he whipped up his supporter into a quote, "frenzy" and aimed them like a loaded cannon down Pennsylvania Avenue.

There is a lot more in this brief as well. But we're also standing by for the response from Trump's legal team. They're facing a noon deadline today to submit their pretrial brief so a lot more to come on that front.

But also, on Capitol Hill, Democrats are appearing to move ahead - ready to move ahead with their $1.9 trillion COVID relief package with or without Republicans. President Biden sat down with a group of Republican senators last night for two hours to really break the ice, it appears, on a potential bipartisan agreement. You see video from the photo opportunity in the Oval Office right there. But both sides left the room saying there wasn't a deal and no clear path really to what happens next.

At the very same time, President Biden is pushing ahead today with more executive orders focusing this afternoon on reversing some Trump era immigration policies. We're going to have more on that in a moment.

But let us start with the impeachment trial and Donald Trump and the breaking news coming from Capitol Hill. CNN's Manu Raju, he has been combing through this brief, coming from the House impeachment managers. He is joining us right now.

Manu, what is the case that they're laying out against Donald Trump?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it has essentially broken out into four key areas. What Donald Trump did before the election. How he's alleged without any evidence that there was going to be mass fraud, suggesting he wouldn't accept the election results. What he did after the election on November 3rd, saying stop the steal, encouraging his supporters to come to the Capitol on January 6th and come to this rally that occurred before the deadly riot.

And then the third part, what he said to those rally-goers as he told them to go to the Capitol, later leading to the deadly riot. And then the argument about the constitutionality, it is well within the bounds of the Constitution for the Senate to try a former president, trying to rebut the Republican argument that is isn't.

Now, this is what they say here. They say the president's responsibility is unmistakable. They say the president's effort to extend his grip on power by fomenting violence against Congress was a profound violation of the oath he swore. If provoking an insurrectionary act against a joint session of Congress after losing an election is not an impeachable offense, it is hard to imagine what would be. The framers themselves would not have hesitated to convict on these facts.

Now, they of course are trying to appeal to Republicans here because Democrats are expected to be overwhelmingly united if not completely united, all 50 Democrats very likely going to ultimately convict Donald Trump but where will the Republicans go. Will they be convinced by the arguments here? They are trying to lay out an extensive case that it was all intentional action by the president that lead to what happened here on January 6th.

That all these members experienced when they stormed the Capitol here and arguing there is completely legitimate for the Senate to move forward. But that is the argument that the Trump team is going to make, that it is not constitutional and Republicans ultimately leaning in that direction. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Manu, thank you so much for that.

Joining me right now to dive into this a little bit more, CNN's John Harwood, he is live at the White House for us. And CNN legal analyst Ross Garber. He has represented four governors facing impeachment and now teaches impeachment law at Tulane. So, completely unqualified to be in this discussion, Ross, as usual. It's good to see you. Thank you.

So, Ross, I was looking through some of the excerpts. This is not a routine corruption charge, the Democrats write. Trump has committed an impeachable offense of historic proportions. What do you think of this pretrial brief, what sticks out to you?

ROSS GARBER, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. So, we're still going through it. But you know to me, it actually seems like a very, very strong you know detailed effort by the House managers to lay out their case and to anticipate the Trump defense. And you know on the constitutionality and on the facts. And we'll have to see what the Trump folks say about it, but this was a strong opening shot.

BOLDUAN: John, all of the details are important, of course. But I don't know if the politics though, are any different no matter what is laid out. Do you see this moving the needle with Republicans or is it more about maybe what the president's team does or doesn't present in response?

[11:05:05]

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think it could move the needle with a few Republicans. But it doesn't move the needle overall. We've gotten a forecast of how this trial is going to come out from those 45 Senate votes. That the trial itself was unconstitutional.

We saw from David Schoen, the new lawyer on Trump's case. That is a principal argument that he is going to make. That it is simply not constitutionally appropriate to hold this trial once he is out of office.

That is the path that leads resistance to the result that Republicans want, which is to acquit Trump and move on. It is not entirely what Trump wants because Trump wants to advance the lie that he actually won the election and it was stolen from him. But it is difficult for a self-respecting lawyer to stand up and make that case when everybody knows it is not true.

You will get some substantive pushback from the Trump lawyers saying, well Trump didn't mean for the violence to take place. If you look at his words literally, he didn't intend that. That is one way in which they will try to push back on what Democrats are alleging.

BOLDUAN: Do you think that is a convincing argument if that's the main route that they go, Ross?

GARBER: I think there is going to be a couple of key arguments. One is on constitutionality. And the second I think you know is you know potentially a compelling argument particularly for Republicans which is that what Trump was saying was kind of normal, if not normal, protected, legitimate First Amendment speech.

What he wasn't telling you know the crowd that was gathered in Washington was to go storm the Capitol, to do violence. But what he was saying was you know, again, essentially political speech and it wasn't reasonable for him to foresee the violence. And I think that points at a very interesting question which is will there be witnesses -

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: That is exactly what I was going to ask you.

GARBER: -- during this trial.

BOLDUAN: What is the calculation do you think in that question?

GARBER: Well, here is the issue. If they're going to have any chance at all of convincing Republicans, they're going to need witnesses and they're going to need new facts. The problem is, it is unlikely that Senate Democrats who control this process are going to want a long drawn out trial where regardless, the outcome seems to kind of be predictable. And so, I think that is the thing to look at, is you know will the House managers seek to call witnesses. It is a big question.

BOLDUAN: John, the Senate trial is already having an impact on Biden's agenda in some part. I mean, just one example that we're learning about now is Lindsey Graham, who is still the chair of the Judiciary Committee right now, because they are still working out how they're going to run the 50/50 split Senate which is a whole other conversation of why is this taking so long, regardless, Graham is now saying he's not going to be able to hold confirmation hearings for Biden's attorney general because the trial is starting and getting in the way. Is the White House saying anything about this? What are you hearing?

HARWOOD: Well, the White House is saying that they could move these nominations -- Dick Durbin, the senior member of the Democratic Senate caucus is making the point. You can move this if you want to and obviously, they could.

But Republicans are trying to, first of all, make the case that the trial is counterproductive because it's going to hurt the Democratic president, not that they mind hurting the Democratic president but that's part of how they're making the argument to shield Trump. And you know there is not much Democrats can do about it if they simply want to throw sand in the gears and that is what Lindsey Graham seems to want to do.

I do think overall, it is not likely to have a dramatic effect on the president's agenda because Merrick Garland is going to get approved in the end any way. It appears that nearly all the cabinet members are going to be approved.

And they're moving ahead on a pretty fast track through reconciliation while talking to Republican senators on this COVID relief package and Joe Biden seems to have the votes. We'll see how the negotiations go and whether Republicans can tempt people like Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema to flake off and go with a smaller compromise. But it looks like they can hold the votes for something pretty close to what Joe Biden wants.

BOLDUAN: And, Ross, real quick. Why do the Democrats need to bring witnesses forward when -- and why do they need new facts? I wonder because you have in court testimony, you have actually already people who stormed the Capitol, rioted and saying they did it because of Donald Trump. They did it because Trump told them to. There are people on tape saying that.

GARBER: So, it's going to be a couple of things. One is, remember during the first Trump impeachment trial, there was a lot of criticism about the process because it looked nothing like a trial. You didn't have witnesses.

And so, I think commonsense you know and kind of public perception suggest that if you're going to have a trial, you're going to charge the president -- former president of the United States with insurrection, it should look something like a trial. You should have witnesses.

[11:10:09]

Second, on key points, what we don't have is testimony or insight. For example, we don't have any connections so far, at least between the president and his team and the rioters, number one.

And number two is the brief talks about what the president was doing during the riot. But there is no actual testimony, there is no actual accounts of that. All of the accounts are kind of these hearsay accounts from what press was reporting on anonymous sources said.

And so, I think that is the other you know key thing. If you're going to move Republicans, you're going to have to present something more compelling tying the president to the misconduct.

BOLDUAN: Let's see what the president's team presents as they're up against a new deadline today. That's the next step in this process. Thank you both. Appreciate it.

Coming up for us, despite a two-hour meeting in the Oval Office, huge gaps remain between the president's pandemic relief plan and the Senate Republicans proposal. So, what happens now?

Plus, a new warning coming from Dr. Fauci about one of the new coronavirus variants and the danger it could pose to everyone, including those who have already been infected.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:15:45]

BOLDUAN: Despite a bipartisan meeting and photo op in the Oval Office, the chances of a bipartisan COVID relief bill don't look any brighter today. President Biden spent hours yesterday with 10 Republican senators at the White House talking about their counter proposal that they wanted to offer to help millions of Americans suffering in the pandemic. Both sides emerged from this meeting yesterday afternoon upbeat, but I don't know if you could say any more optimistic about a deal. Here is Republican Susan Collins.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): It was a very good exchange of views. I wouldn't say that we came together on a package tonight, no one expected that in a two-hour meeting. But what we did agree to do is to follow up and talk further.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: A statement from the White House after the fact called the meeting substantive and productive but also made clear that President Biden won't settle for something that doesn't, quote, "meet the stakes of this moment."

CNN's Lauren Fox is on Capitol Hill. She is following all of the turns here. Lauren, where -- is it clear to you where things go from here? LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it is crystal clear today that Democrats are going to be charging ahead with their partisan effort essentially to try to pass as much of Biden's $1.9 trillion plan as they possibly can. And they're going to take that very first step today in the U.S. Senate. They're going to have a procedural vote essentially to move forward with the budget resolution. That is the first step in this two-step process that allows Democrats to try to advance this proposal with just Democratic votes.

But look, there are major differences. Yes, Republicans can continue talking to the White House. They can continue talking to some of their moderate Democratic colleagues about how to shape this proposal. But there are huge differences.

Republicans are suggesting $618 billion for a top line number. Of course, we know Biden's plan is $1.9 trillion. And we heard yesterday from the White House that they're willing to make some changes around the edges here, but they are not willing to come down to $600 billion.

We also, of course, know that this Democratic plan provides $1,400 checks to families and to individuals who are affected by this crisis and who hit a certain income threshold. That number, of course, much smaller in the Republican plan.

We also know that Democrats want to provide direct state and local aid. That is not something that the Republican plan provides for. So, some significant differences here. And yes, these conversations between Republicans are going to continue with Biden. But it is unclear how much they're actually going to shape the final proposal. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Lauren, thanks for running through it. We really appreciate it.

Let's turn now to the public health side of this pandemic. There is a new warning today coming from Dr. Anthony Fauci about at least one of the coronavirus variants. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT: The experience of our colleagues in South Africa indicate that even if you've been infected with the original virus, that there is a very high rate of reinfection to the point where previous infection does not seem to protect you against reinfection at least with the South African variant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Add to that, the CDC director saying just yesterday that all of the variants so far identified remain a, quote, "great concern."

Joining me right now is Dr. Julie Morita. She's a former member of the Biden Transition COVID Advisory Board and is executive vice president of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. Thank you so much for coming on.

What Dr. Fauci is laying out there is clearly concerning and deserves attention. What is this new information mean to you and in the fight to control the pandemic here?

DR. JULIE MORITA, FORMER MEMBER, BIDEN-HARRIS TRANSITION COVID ADVISORY BOARD: Hi, Kate, thanks for having me.

I think it is concerning as you pointed out and as Dr. Fauci pointed out, that we're detecting these variants. It is important to continue to monitor the variants and look at what it actually means in terms of resistance to the vaccine, in terms of whether you could get reinfected, in terms of how severe you are when you get this virus and these variants. And we don't know that information yet, but more information will be coming.

I think what it does make me think though is in the context of these discussions about additional funding being necessary, is that with these variants circulating, it really does increase urgency in which we should be vaccinating.

[11:20:09]

We need to get the vaccines out and into people's arms a quickly as we can. And so, more resources are really necessary to do that. We know that state and local health department really need more resources so they can ramp up, scale up, make sure the vaccines are getting out and also getting into the right arm.

BOLDUAN: And from what we know so far about the vaccine effort, and there is clearly a lot - there's a lot lacking in the data. According to new CDC data, white women over the age of 50 account for most of the people that are getting shots so far. And the administration says that they don't have race or ethnicity data for almost half of the vaccine records so far. They point to that as a real problem. And you actually just wrote an opinion piece with Dr. Richard Besser getting at why this is such a problem here. Why is this so concerning and is it clear to you what needs to be done to fix this quickly?

MORITA: So, I think from a public health perspective, data are really fundamental. In order for us to know who is getting sick, who is getting the most sick and ending up in the hospital and dying, or who is getting vaccinated and who is not getting vaccinated. You really have to have the data.

So, having data based on race, ethnicity, gender, geography, as well as occupation is critical. And so, as we're rolling out and ramping up this vaccine program, we really need to have timely data that tells us who is getting vaccinated and not so the programs could be adjusted.

As I pointed out earlier, the state and locals really didn't have sufficient resources to ramp up a scale for a response. But it is not too late. I've heard many jurisdictions who are looking at ways to help people get registered for the vaccines, who are not able to ramp up the vaccine supplies and get them into arms more quickly. So, the resources really need to keep coming, so these programs can really be scaled up. And also, to see the vaccines are getting into the right people's arms.

BOLDUAN: Yes, absolutely. And for those who have been lucky enough to get the vaccine so far, there are a lot of questions now about kind of what they can and can't do now that they have the vaccine. Do they have to -- do they still need to wear a mask, who could they visit? Can they travel? I mean, this is kind of the new wave of what is the guidance, what is the best advice. What do you say?

MORITA: I think the vaccine is great. It is -- the two best things are that it has high effectiveness against the strains that they were tested against. But in the meantime, we also need -- don't know for sure if the vaccines protect against transmission. So, kind of person who has been vaccinated actually transfer the virus to another person.

And so, wearing masks, keeping social distancing, washing hands are still really critically important while people are getting vaccinated as well. So, we know that many people aren't getting vaccinated yet. And so, those who are vaccinated need to feel more comfortable themselves that their protected and also know that there is a potential they could spread to others (INAUDIBLE).

BOLDUAN: Doctor, thank you so much for coming on. Really appreciate it.

MORITA: Thank you.

Still ahead for us, the top Republican in the Senate Mitch McConnell finally weighing in on the civil war breaking out in the Republican Party. What he is calling a cancer on the Republican Party right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:28:10]

BOLDUAN: A cancer for the Republican Party and the country. That is the blunt and frankly, pretty startling way that Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell is describing the conspiracy theories embraced by fellow Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene.

He put out a statement last night that deserves quoting it directly because McConnell does not mince words and really, he never speaks without calculation.

"Loony lies and conspiracy theories," he writes "are cancer for the Republican Party and our country. Somebody who's suggested that perhaps no airplane hit the Pentagon on 9/11, that horrifying school shootings were pre-staged, and that the Clintons crashed JFK Jr.'s airplane is not living in reality."

It's the first time McConnell has really weighed in on Marjorie Taylor Greene, though not naming her directly. The message is very clear. Greene is a freshman from congresswoman from Georgia, a state that was a major focus of the big lie that Donald Trump tried to push of widespread election fraud.

Let's go there. Joining me right now is Gabriel Sterling. He is one of Georgia's top election official, chief operating officer and chief financial officer for the secretary of state office. Gabe, thank you for coming in. What did you think of Mitch McConnell speaking out against Congresswoman Greene here?

GABRIEL STERLING, CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER, GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE OFFICE: Well, like you said, he's not exactly one to just throw words around so it was very thoughtful in the language that he chose and I think he's speaking for a lot of elected officials around the country and Republicans.

But we have to be aware that Marjorie Taylor Greene has a very wide following in this country. I mean, she's raised millions of dollars based on things that she said and sometimes you know being attacked by the quote/unquote "elites" only drives her up in terms of the esteem she's viewed by many, many people.

BOLDUAN: You've described her as weighing on the Republican Party. You know and I was thinking about this. Some of the details of the extent to which Greene has kind of gone down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories, where may be not well-known, Gabe, but it is not like it was a secret. Do you wish McConnell or any other party leaders had spoken up sooner?

STERLING: Well frankly, they did.