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Biden Tells Democrats, We Need to Act Fast, on COVID Relief Bill; Congressional Aides Call for Trump's Conviction; House Democrats Move to Stop Rep. Greene from Entering Committees; Interview with Rep. Jason Crow (D-CO) Why Trump Should Be Impeached; State Department Says U.S. a Long Way from Directly Negotiating with Iran; Former QAnon Follower Explains Why She Left Movement. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired February 03, 2021 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He said we need to stick together because we fall, or we rise if we're on the same page.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We hold a small majority in the House and the barest majorities in the Senate. And we're going to succeed or fail together. And you know there have been three Democratic presidents in 28 years. Each one faced a tough midterm loss that cost a lot. It happened in '94 and it happened 2010. We don't want to let that happen here. So let's stick together.

(END AUDIO)

RAJU: So in another important signal on that conference call. He indicated that he'd be open to making the $1,400 relief checks that are in his proposal, making that more targeted and not focused on the -- as big of a scope of individuals and families as it is right now, that has been a big criticism among both Republicans and some Democrats like Joe Manchin of West Virginia who is going to be a key vote in the Senate if they are trying to pass this along party lines.

In this 50-50 Senate Manchin has been critical. But Biden today said that he believes it could be more targeted. So he's open to changing some provisions perhaps to get Manchin and others like him on board but indicating also they're going to go big, not small which was exactly what House Democrats and Senate Democrats want here.

Though the question ultimately, Brooke, will be, can they all stay on the same page -- Brooke.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Manu, thank you very much.

More than 300 Congressional staffers have drafted a letter telling Senators that if they had a vote to convict former President Trump that they would. The staffers are pleading with Senators to consider the trauma they endured during the deadly insurrection on the U.S. Capitol, and I'll read you part of what they have written here.

As congressional employees we don't have a vote on whether to convict Donald J. Trump for his role inciting the violent attack at the Capitol, but our Senators do. And for our sake, and the sake of the country, we ask that they vote to convict the former president and bar him from ever holding office again.

And the staff are familiar with the drafting of the letter also says this, quote --

No one should have to experience something like this in their place of work ... And I think it is important to tell this part of the story because it is not just members of Congress who come to work at the Capitol every single day. And it is not just staffers who work at the Capitol who were traumatized by what happened and I think that there is a piece of it. That is a piece of it -- that's a piece of it. The trauma is there, the trauma is very real. This person says, and anytime that new pieces of information, come out now, you know, you're kind of re-traumatized.

With me now Democratic Congressman Jason Crow of Colorado, Congressman Crow, thank you so much for being with me.

REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): Hi, good afternoon.

BALDWIN: I know that you were singled out as one of the heroes that day as a former Army Ranger. You have also been so outspoken, Congressman, just as a veteran about how the events, you know, back on January 6 have really triggered trauma and PTSD for so many.

And as were hearing these accounts from members and staffers. How might that impact the Senate trial next week?

CROW: Well, I think we have to recognize that this is an extraordinary circumstance. We have never encountered anything like this as a nation, let alone as a Congress. And you know, this is a crime that actually occurred, and not just to members of Congress and to staff members and members of the Senate, but to the American people as a whole.

And next week there's going to be a trial that is going to start, and the jurors of that trial, the Senators, are actually going to be holding that trial at the crime scene and they themselves have been victims of that crime. So it is a very extraordinary circumstance, and that this letter by the staff members is just another reflection of that.

BALDWIN: Holding the trial at the crime scene. It is extraordinary. I want to pivot, Congressman Crow, and talk about Republican Congresswoman and QAnon conspiracy theorist Marjorie Taylor Greene.

I know Democrats ready to hold a vote tomorrow and stripping her of her education committee assignments. That is if Kevin McCarthy doesn't, you know, take action today. Do you think stripping her of her committee assignments is enough? CROW: Well I think it's a start. And you know what's really unfortunate about this that is, you know, Kevin McCarthy and the folks on the other side of the aisle have had an opportunity to lead. They've had an opportunity to stand up and be the leader that our nation and their party actually needs right now.

They have not stepped up to the plate to fulfill that responsibility and to be a leader. So once again we are called as a caucus to stand in their place and to lead for them to show what's appropriate, what's acceptable discourse in an American society and what's not. And we're going to take that action.

BALDWIN: Well listen, it sounds like you are not alone, and how you and Democrats feel about this woman. I know the Republicans in that House Rules Committee that is happening right now.

[15:35:00]

There they are arguing that, yes, she is repugnant -- that was one word that was used. But they're saying -- Democrats they're saying, you know, members in your party are just moving too fast. That they need to go to through House Ethics Committee if they want to raise these issues. Ala, stripping her of committee assignments. What do you say to that?

CROW: Well, that's because they don't want to actually talk about what is going on. Every time people talk about process or these technicalities, they're saying slow down or need to move on. Really, that is code for let's not talk about. Let's not address what's actually happening. Let's not address the crime. Let's not address these terrible egregious things that people are saying or doing. They want to say, look someplace else. Don't look here --

BALDWIN: But is that what you're hearing, congressman, is that what you're hearing from some of your Republican friends and colleagues on the other side of the aisle? Because, you know, we're hearing that they are -- some of them are frustrated by Kevin McCarthy's inaction. They are worried that this will embolden the fringe, you know, wing of the party. Are you hearing that?

CROW: I am hearing that actually. But here is the problem. At this moment in our nation's history discussions behind closed doors aren't going to cut it. You know my private discussions with my friends on the other side of the aisle, that's not going to cut it.

The American public needs to hear this. The world needs to hear this. People need to hear their leaders, their elected officials stand up and say enough is enough. We're going to do things a different way. We have to be better. And until they do, until they hear that this is just not going to work.

BALDWIN: I hope you are telling them that and that they're speaking up to the Kevin McCarthy's of the world, we wait to see if he takes action today. Congressman Jason Crow, thank you, sir.

CROW: Thank you. BALDWIN: The world is watching protests in Russia after Kremlin critic

Alexey Navalny is sent to prison, we'll talk about why the Biden administration is quote, unquote, deeply concerned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:40:00]

BALDWIN: New today, the U.S. is extending a key nuclear arms control treaty with Russia for five years. A State Department spokesperson defending the move last hour saying quote, when a relationship as adversarial, a deal like this becomes even more important.

But this announcement was made just hours after a Russian court ordered a top Kremlin critic to prison for more than two years. The court finding opposition leader Alexey Navalny violated his probation while he was recuperating in Germany from nerve agent poisoning.

With me now, James Clapper, former Director of National Intelligence under President Obama. He is now a CNN national security analyst, so Director Clapper always a pleasure, sir, welcome.

JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Thanks, thanks Brooke.

BALDWIN: The State Department spokesperson said even though, you know, as they work with Russia, they will also hold them to account. If you, sir, are advising President Biden, what do you do here? What do you tell him, what are his options?

CLAPPER: Well, first, I think it was entirely appropriate to extend the START treaty, this governs something that transcends everything else in terms of threat to both countries.

We represent an existential threat to each other so, I think that was a good move perhaps it can be renegotiated during that five year period, I don't know.

That said, I think it's remarkable what has happening with the evolution with Navalny. First you have to salute him for his courage in returning to Russia for what he knew was almost certain incarceration. And the Russians, you know, drummed up a phony conviction, 2014, that just slap him back in jail for two and a half years.

And the reason for that of course is Putin is afraid of him, and he's afraid of the support that Navalny represents and that he can garner across Russia. There were demonstrations in some 100 communities across the entirety of Russian, and people were turning out in subzero freezing temperatures to demonstrate.

And the Russians in turn, according to the "Washington Post" arrested some 12,000 people. And you wonder how many other Navalny's are being spawned by people who were arrested by Putin?

So what are the options? Well, sanctions. And I hope, first, it's refreshing to have the U.S. government dime out Putin and his government and his abuses of human rights. So that is good news. And I think the obvious option are sanctions and I hope that if there are any of Putin's financial assets that are outside Russia that we or other countries can get at to freeze those or the oligarchs who share in the kleptocracy that is the system of governance in Russia.

BALDWIN: Just makes you wonder if you know Putin does truly fear him and how many other Navalny's are out there, and all these protests. What is Putin going to do?

While I have the time, I want to ask you, sir, about Iran. We know Secretary of State Tony Blinken just said that Iran is weeks away, weeks from having enough enriched uranium to build a nuclear weapon. What can the United States do to stop that from happening?

CLAPPER: Well this is interesting situation -- interesting box that I think Iran has put itself in. it's kind of painted itself into a corner to use a double metaphor here.

On the one hand, the Iranians and President Rouhani just did this recently, have said, denied that they want a nuclear weapon.

[15:45:00]

Yet, they are trying to leverage the U.S. to return the original form of the JCPOA first, before they backtrack on their violations of the agreement. So I think the position the U.S. government's taken, Tony Blinken as the Secretary of State, is exactly right. You know, put the hammer on the Iranians to return to abiding by the original agreement.

But in the meantime, they're running out of space. And Secretary Blinken's right, you know, technically, theoretically, there are, as they continue to enrich uranium to produce fissile material. Every day goes by that they do that, they get closer in theory to the capability to build a nuclear weapon.

BALDWIN: Exactly, to your point, they're back in a corner though. We're going to leave it, Director James Clapper, thank you.

CLAPPER: Thanks, Brooke, for having me, thank you.

BALDWIN: You got it. You got it.

A former QAnon follower, supporter is opening up to us here at CNN about her time as a believer. The conspiracy theory and the South Carolina mom says was just finally too much to take.

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[15:50:00]

BALDWIN: Just a reminder, we are still waiting to find out what House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy decides to do about Congresswoman and QAnon believer, Marjorie Taylor Greene. But it is clear that a lot of Americans are still drinking the conspiracy Kool-Aid.

CNN's Donie O'Sullivan met a South Carolina mom who was in deep with QAnon until it all fell apart.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ASHELY VANDERBILT, FORMER QANON BELIEVER: When President Biden was sworn in, I was just crying. I mean I couldn't stop like that ugly cry that you do. It just kept going and I was like, oh my gosh, like I'm seeing the funeral of our country. And instantly I went to panic mode. I had to call my mom and I just told her, it's like we're all going to die, we're going to owned by China.

And I was like I might have to pull my daughter out of school because they're going to take her. I was scared to death.

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Ashley Vanderbilt, a South Carolina mom who says she lost her job early in the pandemic fell deep down the QAnon conspiracy theory rabbit hole before November's election.

O'SULLIVAN: How did you get into this world and go down this rabbit hole.

VANDERBILT: Well, I started seeing TikToks and I didn't know that it was conspiracy things. I just thought it was they were telling me something that nobody else knew. So then I would reach out to different friends of mine that were bigger Trump supporters.

I would say, you know, I saw this on TikTok what you think? And they started sending me YouTube videos. They would start sending me different Facebook live videos. And one thing led to another, I just went down this rabbit hole learning all this stuff. But I mean what have we heard the last four or five years, don't watch the news, fake news fake news.

I don't watch the news. I don't read newspapers like I do not do anything. I have always been someone that you just tell me what to do and I do it.

I grew up being told we were Republicans, so I have always been that straight red ticket.

O'SULLIVAN: How do you think that videos like this started showing up in your feed.

VANDERBILT: Well originally, I was just following like entertainment stuff. But some time when maybe people started like campaigning, I started liking a lot of Trump posts. And things that were anti-Biden and then the algorithm must have just brought that kind of stuff to me.

O'SULLIVAN: Right before the inauguration. You didn't believe Biden was really going to get sworn in.

VANDERBILT: No, I expected a blackout. I expected the TV to go black and nothing to work and so we would not see anything.

The assumption of what would happen would be that most of the Democratic leaders there, quite a few of the Republican leaders, all the Hollywood elite that had attended they would all be arrested.

The military is going to haul them off. They said that Trump opened back up Guantanamo Bay, and then the military would run the country put us in martial law because the left come too unhinged and they'd be a danger to us.

And then Trump would come back when the government was rebuilt. I know it sounds crazy.

O'SULLIVAN: But you believed it.

VANDERBILT: I did.

O'SULLIVAN: And then Biden got sworn in.

VANDERBILT: Uh hmm.

O'SULLIVAN: How did you feel?

VANDERBILT: I was devastated.

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): The belief among QAnon supporters that Biden would not be inaugurated was wrong. Ashely Vanderbilt realized she has bought into a conspiracy theory

VANDERBILT: Well, I was wrong.

O'SULLIVAN: How do you feel now knowing that you believed all this stuff?

VANDERBILT: It's weird. I think is spent a lot of time this year, isolated from everybody. You know, I've just been home a lot. I've lost my job last April in 2020 and I was super depressed. And I think in a way I probably lost touch with a little bit of reality and that almost like common sense.

And so I am not so much embarrassed for what I believe but I mean, I feel foolish. Well stressed out all the time so my home life like with my four-year-old, I feel like I definitely had a lot less patience with her.

There would just be times where's I'd just snap, I would just get so upset with her. So I've had to apologize to her a lot for being like I'm sorry for just even getting hateful towards you. Like it is not you, it is me I got my own stuff going on.

O'SULLIVAN: I mean you must be happy that for your daughter's sake that you've been able to get out of this.

VANDERBILT: Yes, she needs her mom, and I wasn't 100 percent there like I should have been.

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): A spokesperson for TikTok said the company is committed to countering misinformation and content promoting QAnon is not allowed on its platform. After finding QAnon through TikTok Ashley said the only thing that

might have pulled her out of it before the inauguration was if Trump spoke out against it.

VANDERBILT: I was the biggest Trump supporter there was. If he would have said something and if he were to just say, Q's illegitimate and nothing's real in there, I think some people would leave. Maybe not all the people that are way too far into it, but I think it would help a lot of.

O'SULLIVAN: It would have helped you?

[15:55:00]

VANDERBILT: Uh hmm. I thought the world of him, so, if he would have said that's not real, I am not coming back. It is over. I'd have believed him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): And, Brooke, Ashley says that this all started for her on TikTok and she's now using that very same platform to post videos about how she got out of this and she is hoping that by speaking out and speaking so candidly that she is able to help. There are still many, many Americans who are deep down this QAnon rabbit hole.

BALDWIN: It's the most eye opening thing I've seen all day long. I thank you for finding her. I thank Ashley for her bravery in speaking up on this rabbit hole that was QAnon. Donie, thank you very much.

Our breaking news coverage continues this afternoon from Capitol Hill as Democrats take steps toward removing Marjorie Taylor Greene from her committee assignments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)