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Biden's Foreign Policy; Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-MN) is Interviewed about Unemployment, a COVID Relief Deal, Preventing Monopoly Power; Pilots Say Layoffs are Leading to Mistakes. Aired 9:30-10a ET.

Aired February 04, 2021 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

DAVID TAFURI, FORMER U.N. AND STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL: The countries that also have concerns about China in order to contain it, both contain it and turn to its expansionism, or -- in -- around its borders, in the oceans near it, and also in terms of containing it economically.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Yes. And, you're right, the big issue they have, as many did with tariffs, right, is that it punishes American importers and consumers.

How about wars in the Middle East, right? The president talked about ending the endless wars. Do we see the same direction with Biden? If not a complete withdrawal from, say, an Afghanistan, at least a downward direction in terms of those foreign commitments there?

TAFURI: This is one of the things I'm really looking forward to hearing Biden talk about because he hasn't yet explained what he plans to do in the Middle East. And there are a number of countries that are in transition that still have hostilities, that are still in -- having serious problems where we have a true presence, a diplomatic presence, like Iraq, like Afghanistan, as you mentioned, also Syria. And he hasn't really explained what he plans to do.

We do know from what he had said and what Tony Blinken, the secretary of state, have said is that they want to be more engaged. So they're going to be more engaged diplomatically. But what is the engagement militarily going to be like? I think there's a strong argument among people in the foreign policy circles and who are going into the Biden administration and foreign policy that we have to have some military presence in places like Syria and Iraq in order to continue to combat ISIS.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TAFURI: It would be a disaster if ISIS came back under Biden.

And in Afghanistan, Trump tried to have a, you know, treaty with the Taliban. That's had mixed success. And I think the Biden administration is going to have to re-evaluate, are we sure that we can trust the Taliban and that if we pull out all troops, they're not going to overrun Afghanistan, take back Kabul and turn it back to an Islamic, say radical Islamic state that takes away all the rights that we helped restore during our presence there.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean the Pentagon, even under Trump, you know, they set a floor at around 4,500 troops. They said without that, we can't fight the terrorists there. Of course Trump went even further below that.

Listen, I don't want to downplay the importance of alliances and multilateralism because it's very possible that a Trump second term, he might have just up and pulled out of NATO, you know, major decisions like that.

Let me focus on one. The Biden administration is talking about resurrecting the multilateral Iran nuclear agreement. Where does that go? Is there interest on both sides? Can he do that politically?

TAFURI: Well, the situation is not the same as when the JCPOA, the Iran nuclear agreement, was put in place in 2014 and 2015. So we have to -- you know, the Biden administration has to take stock of the situation with Iran now.

There are, you know, substantial sanctions back in place. Iran is still engaging in many of the things that people criticized the Obama administration for not taking into account when it did the Iran nuclear deal, like supporting Hezbollah, like supporting Shia militias in Iraq, and supporting terrorism around the world.

So to get into a new agreement, we're going to have to use those maximum sanctions that Trump put in place and we're going to have to roll back -- roll them back slowly as Iran shows that it intends not just to go back in terms of rolling back its effort to have nuclear weapons, but also rolling back its support for terrorism around the world and for destabilizing the countries that are its neighbors.

SCIUTTO: We'll be watching the speech closely. A lot of questions to be answered.

David Tafuri, great to have you on.

TAFURI: Thanks, Jim.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right, as President Biden prepares to give that first major foreign policy speech, his homeland security secretary, Alejandro Mayorkas, is warning domestic terrorism, the threat that is growing and it's ongoing.

Listen to what he told our Ana Cabrera.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: The threat is persistent. It was exemplified, it was illustrated horrifically by the events of January 6th. The threat of domestic terrorism preceded that terrible day and it persists to this day.

What we in the Department of Homeland Security do is we gather intelligence. We gather information. We share that with our state, local, tribal and territorial partners as we collectively, in an all of government effort, not just the federal government, but all of government across the country, combat hate and the violence that accompanies it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: All right, ahead for us, just this morning, nearly 800,000 more people filed for first-time unemployment claims last week. Women continue to be hit the hardest. Senator Amy Klobuchar is calling for major action. She joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:39:13]

SCIUTTO: Well, the pandemic ravaged economy continues to bring stubbornly really just shockingly high jobless claims. Another 779,000 Americans filed for first-time unemployment benefits last week alone. Keep in mind, that week, like all those weeks you see on the screen, more than any single week during the 2008 financial crisis, I mean this is incredible. The economy is still down 9.8 million jobs in total since the start of the pandemic. Poverty rates in this country in the year 2021 are skyrocketing.

The Biden administration has made big promises. It is pushing, of course, a very big relief bill. But more help will be needed.

Here's what Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen just said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANET YELLEN, TREASURY SECRETARY: We need to make sure that people have jobs.

[09:40:02]

If they don't have jobs, that they're supported. And that when we come out of this and the economy rebounds, which we've got some tough months ahead until we get control of the pandemic, but we want to make sure we've got a good, strong labor market, can put people back to work and that these small businesses that need help survive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: It really is staggering the number of job losses. And women, particularly women of color, have been hit hardest.

My next guest is calling for significant action to help them. She has some pull in the Senate to try to get it done.

With me now is Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. She leads the Rules Committee now and the Antitrust Subcommittee. Senator, good morning and thank you.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): Hi Poppy, thanks for having me on.

HARLOW: Hi. All right, so you sent this letter right here to Brian Deese who leads the National Economic Council and you know, look, women have lost a million more jobs than men during this pandemic. You want them to do specific things to target and help women.

I wonder, Senator, if they don't, what happens to this economy and those women?

KLOBUCHAR: We know that women have been such an important part of this workforce, so many of their (ph) juggling kids and juggling their jobs and right now we have one estimate, two million out of the work from the pandemic, a much different rate than men.

And I think a lot of it has to do with moms, a lot of it has to do with the type of jobs that they have. And so, that's why this package is so important, because it includes help with childcare, it includes of course help with getting kids back to school and it also will get the vaccine out at a faster rate, which is what we all need, men and women --

HARLOW: So --

KLOBUCHAR: -- to be able to go back to work.

HARLOW: It seems like this $1.9 trillion stimulus bill is sort of moving full steam ahead through reconciliation, even if you don't get a single Republican senator onboard. And I -- I ask you this specifically, because you are sort of the great compromiser. I mean, that's your -- that's your M.O., that's your thing and you even said at the inauguration, we celebrate a new president who vows to cross the river of our divides.

I wonder if the risk of further dividing America on this is worth it?

KLOBUCHAR: First of all, I was really pleased that President Biden met with the group of Republicans who, in good faith, went over there. There is just a major disagreement of opinion here on what we need to jump start the economy as well as get that vaccine out as soon as possible.

He was respectful, I think he'll take some of their comments into regard as he moves forward and I think there's going to be so many other ways that we can compromise on other bills, but right now we have to get this out and that's why today we're going to start the process on budget reconciliation.

We have a united party to move forward and we will do that and we hope we'll get some of their support.

HARLOW: But (ph) I hear you using the words you hope you're going to get it, it doesn't mean you need it. Let -- let me put this to you. Listen to what your Republican colleague in the Senate, Joni Ernst, told Jake Tapper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): The president promised bipartisanship in his inauguration speech. We really look forward to that and we hope that he honors the promises that he's mad to all of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Is it -- is it a pretty big promise to break on the first major legislative effort?

KLOBUCHAR: I don't think he's breaking it. I never saw President Trump have 12 Democrats come over, I was never one of them, and sit in the Oval Office with him for two hours. That's what Joe Biden did, he met with them first and he took their comments and I think it's going to affect some of the work that he does with this bill.

But, the bottom line is there's a major disagreement. I think we need this much money, I look at what we were asking for in the summer. We never were able to get it because of the ineptitude of the Trump administration and we just can't wait, the American people can't wait.

But look at other issues, Poppy, immigration, infrastructure, there's so many issues. We're getting the cabinet nominees done with a lot of bipartisan support. Overall, this has been a time of great productivity the last few weeks.

HARLOW: Sounds like you're hopeful some tweaks will be made to the bill and then you'll get some Republican votes. We're going to wait and see. It seems like everything's moving quickly.

But, let's move to what you're introducing this morning, because it may be wonky, but it's super important and it is about, you know, basically curbing the potential for monopoly power. Can you explain in the simplest layman terms what you are putting forth?

KLOBUCHAR: Things are too big right now, Poppy, that's what a lot of my constituents believe, it's what I believe, and you have a situation where throughout history new companies, small startups have changed the country, have made our country so strong. And right now, especially in the tech area, you have companies like Google that have 90 percent control over search engines and you have to allow a regeneration of our economy.

What I'm proposing is make sure these agencies are able to take on trillion dollar companies like Facebook and Google, they can't do it with Band-Aids and duct tape, and then make changes to the law. We've always done that over time, we can't let sophisticated companies that, yes, are popular, that, yes, employ a lot of people. They will continue to do that but we must have laws that are sophisticated as the companies we're dealing with. And that's what this is about. It's about --

HARLOW: So --

KLOBUCHAR: -- a check and balance.

HARLOW: So to your point on Google, they would say that's not the case. This is about consumer choice. Consumers are choosing us. I reached out to them about your legislation. They didn't have a direct response on that, but that has been their position. I will put that out there.

But on big tech, what I think is so interesting, Senator, about what you're proposing, is it's different from David Cicilline. It -- it's not -- and others who have said break up big tech.

You wouldn't break up Facebook and Instagram, but you would prevent a merger like that from ever happening again. Can you explain to folks who, over the past few months, have been bombarded with misinformation on COVID, on the election, sometimes to deadly effect, if this would change that for them?

KLOBUCHAR: I think it would. And first of all, you could have a break up as -- under my bill, structural remedies. I mean, I'm in favor of actually having WhatsApp and Instagram be separate companies.

But that being said, how are you going to get more privacy controls in place and stop the misinformation? One, we should put regulations in place. I cannot believe that hasn't happened yet.

But secondly, if you allow these small companies, let's say Instagram was still a separate company. Perhaps they would've put those bells and whistles on in privacy controls and things like that that would one day make them a major competitor to Facebook. If you --

HARLOW: Yes.

KLOBUCHAR: -- unleash the power of private enterprise in our country, that's what the anti-trust laws are about, then you can develop companies that will be able to take them on with things that people need.

And right now, people need platforms that aren't throwing out a bunch of misinformation and are better for privacy and you don't have that right now.

HARLOW: I appreciate you being here and explaining that to all of us in a way that we can understand. I know you have a book coming in a few months on it (ph) --

(CROSSTALK)

KLOBUCHAR: I do.

HARLOW: -- I look forward to reading it. And thank you for your time this morning, Senator.

KLOBUCHAR: Thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: We'll have you back soon.

KLOBUCHAR: It's great to be on.

HARLOW: All right.

KLOBUCHAR: Thank you.

HARLOW: Well, ahead, wait until you hear this story. Commercial pilots say they're sort of out of practice and they're blaming pandemic downtime on in-flight mistakes. A look at how one airline is keeping pilots' skills sharp, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:52:01]

HARLOW: Well American Airlines, this morning, is warning employees of significant potential further furloughs. The airline says 13,000 employees could be furloughed when a second round of pandemic relief expires at the end of next month. It will begin issuing warning notices on Friday. The airline says it is also opening up voluntary early outs and long-term leave programs for their front-line employees.

Also this morning, CNN is learning that some commercial airline pilots, the planes that fly all of us, are telling federal authorities the long layoffs and downtime during the pandemic has left them, in their words, rusty, causing them to even make some in-flight mistakes.

Our Pete Muntean went to American Airlines training center in Dallas to see what they're doing to combat that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Commercial pilots are now blaming unprecedented pandemic downtime for in-flight mistakes with passengers on board. While the latest safety data shows flying is the safest it has ever been, CNN analyzed publically available incident reports submitted by U.S. flight crews. Pilots self-reported being rusty in at least 26 separate cases since the start of the pandemic.

PETER GOELZ, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: It's a serious issue.

MUNTEAN: Peter Goelz is the former managing director of the National Transportation Safety Board. He reviewed the reports where pilots say they drifted from assigned altitudes and courses, aimed for the wrong runway, even landing without proper clearance from air traffic control. In one instance, a pilot forgot to engage the plane's critical anti-ice system. This was my first flight in nearly three months, the pilot said. I placed too much confidence in assuming that it would all come back to me as second nature.

GOELZ: These kinds of fairly mundane, what appear to be mundane errors, and really resulted in terrible events.

MUNTEAN: Goelz says he's reminded of the 2006 Comair crash that killed everyone but the first officer, who was partly blamed for taking off from the wrong runway. The reports, which date back to the spring, do not specify where the incidents happened or the airlines involved.

JIM THOMAS, MANAGING DIRECTOR OF FLIGHT TRAINING, AMERICAN AIRLINES: Day-to-day there's at least 400 that are in some sort of training environment.

MUNTEAN: American Airlines gave us an exclusive look at its program to keep pilots in practice. At its simulator center in Dallas, pilots are retrained before they return to the flight deck.

MUNTEAN (on camera): There has to be a bit of butterflies.

CURTIS JOENS, AMERICAN AIRLINES CAPTAIN: Sure. Oh, I'd acknowledge that. Sure, a few butterflies.

MUNTEAN (voice over): Twenty-nine year American pilot Curtis Joens recently returned from a company leave of absence because of the pandemic.

JOENS: We don't just sit down and say, OK, start engines and fly by the seat of our pants. We -- there's a checklist and a methodology for everything that we do, all the way from the pre-flight to starting engines, to taxi, to takeoff.

MUNTEAN: American analyzed its pilots and insist the pandemic has not led to a decline of their skills.

JOENS: Just realize, you've got two pilots up there. They're supporting one another. They're watching one another. They're challenging one another.

MUNTEAN: The airline underscores that pilot discuss specific risks with each other before each flight and they can request extra training.

[09:55:03]

THOMAS: We're not going to allow them to go -- to go fly the line until their fully trained and ready to go fly.

MUNTEAN (on camera): As a pilot, I can tell you that flying is a perishable skill. And pilots are taught early on in their training to be especially careful after taking a break. There's been no uptick in crashes during the pandemic, but airlines say this is an issue they're going to keep an eye on.

Pete Muntean, CNN, Reagan National Airport.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: What an interesting piece, Pete, thank you.

Ahead, a moral crisis and the Republican Party leadership at odds after a significant number of the caucus tried to oust House GOP Chair Liz Cheney from her position while simultaneously some celebrating Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene's conspiracy theories. We're live, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:04]

SCIUTTO: A very good Thursday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

HARLOW: And I'm Poppy Harlow.