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Democrats to Unveil $3,000 Child Benefit in Biden Relief Package; Schumer & Ocasio-Cortez Team Up to Help Families Pay for Funerals; Schumer Locking Arms with Progressives Amid Challenge Threat; GOP's Censure of Trump Critics Contradicts "Cancel Culture" Takes; Riot Defendant's History of Intimidating Lawmakers, Racist Speeches; Former State Sen. Roger Katz (R-ME) Discusses Riot Defendant Kyle Fitzsimons. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired February 08, 2021 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: So when you add those two things together you get growing inequality. And you get an environment that is not great for child rearing.
We have no social safety net in this country. That's another big problem, particularly relative to Europe.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Some experts like Larry Summers say the president's COVID relief plan is too big, that it could actually damage the economy later.
But then Janet Yellen, the treasury secretary, saying it's not big enough. Who's right here?
FOROOHAR: I'll have to go with Janet Yellen. She's a labor economist. I think she is someone who is laser-focused on the real pain of working people. I think that that's where we need to be right now.
Is there a risk of inflation later on down the road? There may be. You can make a case for that.
But there's a reality right now of people who simply will not be able to get back up on their feet without some help.
KEILAR: Rana, thank you so much. You always make it so easy to understand and we appreciate it.
FOROOHAR: Thanks so much, Brianna.
KEILAR: The president's COVID relief plan is exposing divisions among more moderate Democrats and the party's progressive wing.
You're now seeing Senate majority leader, Chuck Schumer, reaching to his left, trying to bridge the gaps, like this meeting last week on canceling student loan debt. This appearance he had here.
Today, he and Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez teamed up to introduce $2 billion for families who that can't afford proper funerals for loved ones who died in the pandemic.
Joining me is Alex Burns, from "The New York Times."
Alex, thank you so much for coming on.
Because you wrote an article about this, about Schumer and what he's up to. You say he's cozying up to the AOC wing basically to keep his seat. I mean, he does have some kind of exposure here. Explain this to us.
ALEX BURNS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: He sure does have exposure, Brianna. If you look over the trajectory of Chuck Schumer's career, he's generally approached the job of campaigning and leading the Democratic Party from a relative political middle.
But you have seen him take some big steps over the last really four years but especially the last few months or so making sure that the wing of the party that has led the charge against so many other incumbent Democrats in his home state of New York that they feel comfortable working with him.
Some of this is about electoral politics. Some of this is about a legislative map.
But it will be terribly uncomfortable or inconvenient for the Senate majority leader to face a serious primary from the left in his home state next year when up for re-election, as he's trying to lead a 50/50 chamber.
Brianna, as you know, at same time, part of what he's doing in working with the left is trying to maybe the map work within that 50/50 chamber.
We've all been focused, and with good reason, on centrists like Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema. But those two are only sufficient to get a bill passed if you also have Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren onboard.
So it's a very delicate balancing act for Chuck Schumer both at home and on Capitol Hill.
KEILAR: But he can't -- he can't make the math work, Alex, if he's not in the Senate. I wonder how large -- you talk about this a little bit in your article.
How large do these cautionary tales of these other New York Democrats who were primaried, how large does that loom maybe in, you know, Chuck Schumer's calculus but also in that of other Democrats?
BURNS: Well, he's certainly acting like it looms large in his calculus, that the number of progressive Democrats in the state legislature and the House delegation, people like Representative Ocasio-Cortez, but also newly elected members, like Jamaal Bowman, and Ritchie Torres, Mondaire Jones.
Senator Schumer has gone out of his way making sure he is talking to them, that he's appearing in public with them, and that he's endorsing policy goals that they put at the center of their campaigns.
The real question is: Is he endorsing the right policies? You talk to Democrats on the ground level, liberal Democrats on ground level in New York, and they say, the real test, can he deliver that stuff, can he put it into law?
Because they no longer see him, and with good reason, as a guy who is just another Senator, or just another Democrat in Mitch McConnell's Senate. He's majority leader now.
KEILAR: There are a lot of people who look how quickly the star of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has risen. And they wonder if ultimately she may have an eye on a Senate seat in New York.
Can you tell us what you learned about her thinking?
BURNS: People I spoke with who have been in touch with her have said she's not currently proceeding towards a campaign. She says she hasn't made up her mind. But she's also not taking any active steps to lay the groundwork for doing that.
But that she feels that the threat of a primary puts a useful kind of pressure on Chuck Schumer.
That if there was no possibility he would face a serious primary or potentially a really mortally serious primary, which a race against her very well might be, he would feel more comfortable tracking towards the center.
And making Joe Manchin the center of gravity in the Democratic caucus as opposed to the much more complicated to, well, the much more complicated pictures we have right now.
[14:35:01]
KEILAR: Yeah. So maybe dangle that over Chuck Schumer's head.
BURNS: Yes.
KEILAR: She seems very comfortable with that, as you explain.
Alex, thanks for being with us.
BURNS: Thanks a lot.
KEILAR: Many Republicans, who didn't stick to party lines and voted to impeach former President Donald Trump a second time, now find themselves being censured for their votes. It's a move that's rather shocking coming out of the same party that cried "free speech suppression" when Trump was booted off Twitter. We're going to roll the tape, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: Many Republicans are poking giant holes in their own claims about Cancel Culture erasing or blacklisting people for exercising their freedom of speech.
Many members of the party who claim to loathe Cancel Culture are embracing it, like a rioter with Nancy Pelosi's lectern in the capitol rotunda.
At least six of the 10 House Republicans who voted to impeach Donald Trump has been ostracized by their fellow Republicans.
[14:40:00]
In Washington State, Republican leaders in Congressman Dan Newhouse's county demanded he resign.
The state party overwhelmingly condemned the impeachment and expressed disappointment in Newhouse, as well as Congresswoman Jaime Herrera Beutler.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER (R-WA): My vote to impeach our sitting president is not a fear-based decision. I'm not choosing a side. I'm choosing truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: In other states, the rebukes were more than just words. Republicans in South Carolina and Michigan voted to censure Republicans Tom Rice and Fred Upton. Same for Adam Kinzinger in Illinois.
In Wyoming, the state's Republican party censured Liz Cheney, as it did -- as did at least 10 individual counties.
But like the other Republicans who voted to impeach, Cheney isn't apologizing. And she's being blunt with Republicans that they've got to quit Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Look, I think people all across Wyoming understand and recognize that our most important duty is to the Constitution.
The single greatest threat to our republic is a president who would put his own self-interests above the Constitution, above the national interests.
We've had a situation where President Trump claimed for months that the election was stolen and then, apparently, set about to do everything he could to steal it himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Cheney isn't the only censured lawmaker calling on the party to cleanse itself of Trumpism. Senator Ben Sasse is reportedly about to be slapped by Nebraska
Republicans for criticizing Republican efforts to overturn election results on false pretenses and for criticizing Donald Trump for leading the effort.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BEN SASSE (R-NE): Let's be clear. The anger in the state party has never been about me violating principle or abandoning conservative policy. I'm one of the most conservative voters in the Senate.
The anger always has been simply about me not bending the knee to one guy.
You are welcome to censure me again. But let's be clear about why this is happening. It's because I still believe, as you used to, that politics isn't about the weird worship of one dude.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: These calls for resignations, the censures, rebukes, in some cases, death threats, stand out in a party that has long tried to stave off criticism by touting freedom of speech and saying that they disdain being censured.
Including from the same Republicans, some who wanted to cancel Liz Cheney from her House leadership position for disagreeing with them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): These people want to be able to control what we see and how we behave. And to constrain speech in this way I think it's very damaging to country.
REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): There's got to be consequences, Stewart. Look, you're directly attacking free speech.
And here's the thing that gets me. Why is it always just conservatives?
REP. DEVIN NUNES (R-CA): The censuring always goes against conservatives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: That wasn't true then but it is especially false now.
The latest blows to the Cancel Culture myth of folks like Jim Jordan, Matt Gaetz and Devin Nunes are, on one front, self-inflicted.
And on the other media, from the media outlet serving as one of their greatest promoters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOU DOBBS, FORMER FOX BUSINESS HOST: There's sunshine beaming throughout the place and on almost every face. It's winner and winning center. And our White House, our president, is at the top of his game.
This is a president who has not only had the most historic list of achievements of any president since Franklin Delano Roosevelt in less than a year and a half, but he has also grown into immensely as a leader. Now this is a man who is a natural-born leader.
He out works them. He out thinks. He is remarkably resourceful. He's bright. His judgment is second to none.
You came into this job fighting like hell.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes.
DOBBS: And you are fighting like hell every day.
TRUMP: More than I thought.
DOBBS: You're also one of the most loved and respected.
TRUMP: I would say that also.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Now FOX Business abruptly canceling its highest-rated host on the channel. We don't know officially why Lou Dobbs got the boot from planet FOX. Dobbs himself hasn't directly commented.
But it came one day after an election software company named Dobbs in a $2.7 billion lawsuit against his network for allegedly defaming the company as FOX was allegedly part of a, quote, "disinformation campaign propagating conspiracy theories about the election."
FOX, we should mention, calls the suit meritless.
But this will no doubt make FOX's daily segments, lamenting Cancel Culture, a bit awkward, considering FOX canceled itself.
A cell phone that what FOX guests and hosts have been lambasting as Cancel Culture all this time is actually just accountability.
[14:44:50]
One of are the rioters charged in the capitol insurrection has a history of intimidating lawmakers. In an unearthed video, he claimed that they were trying to replace white people while protesting a bill. I'm going to speak to the former lawmaker whose bill he was ranting against.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: A man charged in connection to the January 6th capitol riot made racist and xenophobic remarks during a public hearing before the Maine legislature in 2017.
As CNN's justice correspondent, Jessica Schneider, explains, Kyle Fitzsimons has a history of making bigoted remarks and intimidating lawmakers at public hearings.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, CNN has uncovered video of one of the men accused of assaulting a federal police officer during the capitol insurrection.
This video shows that man, Kyle Fitzsimons, ranting and raving with racist and xenophobic remarks.
[14:50:06]
This video shows Kyle Fitzsimons ranting against lawmakers about this false belief that he says lawmakers are trying to replace white people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KYLE FITZSIMONS, CHARGED IN CAPITOL HILL RIOT: I'm going to level this at all of you because you're sitting as official during an opioid crisis that is affecting many and killing us off.
Killing off Yankee New England culture. You're doing nothing about it.
No. You're -- you're bringing in the third world. You're bringing in the replacements.
I see what's going on. It's very annoying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: Fitzsimons's lawyer was asked about this video. He said no comment.
Prosecutors say that Fitzsimons grabbed and pushed against police officers who were trying to hold the police line at the west side of the capitol on January 6th.
And prosecutors say they have surveillance video that they say shows Fitzsimons grabbing at, pushing, and even swinging at a metropolitan police officer.
Now Fitzsimons is being held in jail until at least his next court appearance, and that's on Thursday -- Brianna?
KEILAR: Jess, thanks so much.
When Kyle Fitzsimons unleashed that violent rant he was arguing against a piece of legislation sponsored by then Republican state Senator Roger Katz.
And this is a bill -- this proposed bill would have largely expanded funding for teaching immigrants English, among other things, geared towards helping them.
And Roger Katz is with us now for talking about this. Sir, thank you so much for being with us.
I'm wondering what was going through your mind, you know, when you saw that rant?
FORMER STATE SEN. ROGER KATZ (R-ME): Well, it was pretty stunning at the time, Brianna. It was three years ago now.
But two things I remember. He held us two license plates, one from New York and one from Rhode Island, and said these are places I used to live before I moved here until I moved here. And I'm glad to get out of those cultural hell holes and move to Maine because he thought this was going to find a white society.
And then at the end of his -- his testimony, if you will, he pointed -- he pointed out that the Maine flag has two white males on it, a forester and a fisherman. And he said we don't want to have to go to the end of the line because these people are coming to our state.
So I think there were audible gasps in the room. And it's one of the most remarkable things I've ever seen in terms of people really speaking their minds in a very racist way.
KEILAR: Did you respond to him?
KATZ: I was the sponsor of the bill. I wasn't on the committee at the time. The committee really didn't. I think they were happy to have him leave the room as soon as he could.
He didn't have any impact on the bill. He was the only one to speak in opposition, by the way. And the bill actually sailed through the committee, although it was not able to overcome a governor's veto.
KEILAR: OK. So in the end, it did not prevail. And as you mentioned, this was the one person speaking in opposition in that committee hearing.
But certainly, you know, I'm sure that left an impression on you having seen that rant and knowing that there are, you know -- I mean, I don't know how much of this kind of discourse you witnessed in your state.
But I just wonder overall what you make of learning that he -- that he's not alone. There's been a sharp increase in white supremacists and conspiracy theorist rhetoric. And it's now seeped into the national discourse.
What do you make of that?
KATZ: Well, first of all, everybody should understand that most people in Maine are extremely welcoming and fair.
KEILAR: Of course.
KATZ: But to hear someone like Mr. Fitzsimons is very disconcerting. People who think that other people coming from away, particularly from other continents, are somehow going to take away their jobs and we need to do something to stop it.
It's really exactly the opposite is true. It's not taking a piece of the pie away from anybody. It's really helping to expand that pie.
And Maine, we've got a very white population, frankly. I think only about 2 percent African-American.
But we have suffered our own discrimination through the years, going back a century or more when the French Catholics were flooding over the borders into our state to work in the mills.
And the Ku Klux Klan was very upset that white culture in Maine was going to be destroyed by that influx.
And now maybe a third of our state is Franco-American, and they are proud Mainers, and we're proud to have them.
KEILAR: Sir, thank you so much. I'm sure it's -- you know, seeing this person who you saw having made those comments and now you see them in this video, I know it must be pretty stunning.
And we are so glad that you came to talk with us, Roger Katz.
KATZ: Thank you.
KEILAR: Thank you, sir.
We are less than 24 hours away from the start of former President Trump's second impeachment trial in the Senate. And his attorneys accuse of Democrats of political theater and that Trump's "fight like hell" statement did not incite the riot. That's what they are saying.
[14:54:59]
Our breaking news coverage continues after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:03]
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Hi there. You're watching CNN on this Monday afternoon. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me.
