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Trump Trial to Begin with Debate on Constitutionality; Police Using Water Cannons, Curfew to Quell Protests in Myanmar; Concerns Variants Will Reverse Positive Trends in U.S.; South Africa to Modify Rollout of AstraZeneca Vaccine; Secretary of State Anthony Blinken is Interviewed about Navalny Protests, Iran Nuclear Deal; Military Leader: Will Upload Rohingya Repatriation; U.N. Report: North Korea Actively Developing Nuclear Program; COVID Cases, Hospitalizations, Deaths Down as Concerns about Variants Rise; FOX Business Drops Lou Dobbs After Lawsuit Filed. Aired 12-12:45a ET

Aired February 09, 2021 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello and welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm John Vause.

Coming up on CNN NEWSROOM, Hello, and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I am John Vause.

Coming up on CNN NEWSROOM. Trump lawyers throwing MAGA insurgents under the bus. On the eve of the second impeachment trial, they argue that the former president was horrified by the attack on the Capitol.

Protests grow in Myanmar, thousands defying the military coup for the fourth day. Security forces, fighting back this hour, with more accounts.

Also, the deadliest week of U.S. avalanches on record. Why the snow has left several deceased, and the ongoing threat with scenes like this one.

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VAUSE: History will be made 13 hours from now, when the U.S. Senate begins a 2nd impeachment of Donald J. Trump. He is the only U.S. president to be impeached twice and the only one ever tried after leaving office.

The U.S. Capitol will not only be the site of the trial, it's also the scene of the crime. Democrats accused Trump of inciting a mob of supporters to storm the building in an attempt to overturn the election results. In the end, five people died, including a Capitol Police officer. MONETTI: Senate leaders laid out the trial rules. After an initial

debate on constitutionality, each side gets 16 hours, over two days to make its case.

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SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: This structure has been approved by both former president Trump's legal team and the House managers because it preserves due process and the rights of both sides. It gives senators, as jurors, ample time to review the case and the arguments of each side will provide.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MAJORITY LEADER: The structure we have agreed to is eminently fair. It will allow for the trial to achieve its purpose. Truth and accountability. That is what trials are designed to do. To arrive at the truth of the matter and render a verdict.

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VAUSE: Trump was invited but has refused to testify. Aides say he thinks he will be acquitted. He remains focused on punishing House Republicans who voted to impeach him. Details of the president's preparations for the trial from Jim Acosta, from West Palm Beach, Florida.

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JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just a day away from the start of his second impeachment trial, former president Donald Trump is facing severe consequences if he's convicted, as he could be barred from ever again serving in the Oval Office.

Senate Democrats say they have a deal for what is shaping up to be a trial that could last more than one week, with days of arguments from both sides in the case.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MAJORITY LEADER: Only the fourth trial of a president or former president in American history and the first trial for any public official that has been impeached twice.

ACOSTA (voice-over): Trump's defense team is arguing the former president is totally blameless for the bloody siege of the Capitol.

In their latest filing before the impeachment trial begins Tuesday, his lawyers are blasting the proceeding as "a selfish attempt by Democratic leadership in the House to prey upon the feelings of horror and confusion that fell upon all Americans across the entire political spectrum upon seeing the destruction at the Capitol on January 6 by a few hundred people."

But former aides tell CNN a different story, that the then president was enjoying the spectacle, one ex-White House official saying Trump was "loving watching the Capitol mob." Arguing the evidence of Trump's conduct is overwhelming, House Democrats will seize on the former president's own words to make their case.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. We're going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So, let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.

ACOSTA (voice-over): Trump's defense team argues his statements cannot and could not reasonably be interpreted as a call to immediate violence or a call for a violent overthrow of the United States government.

But Democrats plan to point out Trump supporters appear to be following his commands as they unleash their assault.

TRUMP: Go home and go home in peace.

ACOSTA (voice-over): Noting how some of the mob seem to obey his call to go home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump asked everybody to go home. He won the (INAUDIBLE) day.

ACOSTA: Then there was the Trump tweet targeting Vice President Mike Pence just as he was in danger at the Capitol.

RIOTERS: Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence!

ACOSTA: President Biden says Trump should speak up if he's innocent.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look, he's got an offer to come and testify. He has decided not to. We will let the Senate work that out.

ACOSTA: Trump's lawyers insist it's unconstitutional to hold the trial after their client has left office.

But some Republicans aren't buying it, as lawyer Charles Cooper, who represented former national security adviser John Bolton, wrote in "The Wall Street Journal," "Article 1, Section 1 authorizes the Senate to impose an optional punishment on conviction, disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States. That punishment can be imposed only on former officers."

One of the GOP House members who voted to impeach Trump, Liz Cheney, said it's time for her party to face some hard truths.

REP. LIZ CHENEY (D-WY): People have been lied to. The extent to which the president, President Trump, for months leading up to January 6 spread the notion that the election had been stolen or that the election was rigged, was a lie. And people need to understand that. ACOSTA: Sources tell us, Trump is fixated on punishing Republican lawmakers who voted to impeach him in the House, like congresswoman Liz Cheney. A former adviser says the former president sees his efforts as, quote, "seeking accountability" -- Jim Acosta, CNN, West Palm Beach, Florida.

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VAUSE: Joining me now from Washington, Evan McMullin is the executive director of Stand Up Republic, a former independent candidate for president. And in La Jolla, California, Harry Litman, a former U.S. attorney and host of the "Talking Feds" podcast.

Thanks for being with us. We are on the same page when it comes to the Senate impeachment trial. It is constitutional, any argument to the contrary, invalid. We can go on to his defense which is I didn't do it, as the Trump dream team argues.

Notably absent from the speech, any reference to or encouragement of any insurrection, a riot, criminal action or any acts of physical violence whatsoever. Mr. Trump never made any express or implied mentions of weapons, the need for weapons or anything of the sort.

To be fair, Trump never explicitly told anyone to hang Mike Pence or kill Nancy Pelosi but he did say this.

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TRUMP: We fight, we fight like hell and if you don't fight like hell, you won't have a country anymore.

Fight for Trump. Fight for Trump. Fight for Trump.

We will never give up, we will never concede.

We will stop the steal.

Stop the steal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Harry, do you think a cause and effect argument can be misleading or over simplified but not this time. Trump said it, they did it.

HARRY LITMAN, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Pretty much. When we are in this part of the trial, it will just be an evidentiary question. He will point to the convenient little phrase where he said, "peacefully," and they will share all of the video, as you've just shown.

Now it's a question on the facts. The facts, as you suggest, are pretty overwhelming. He was the guy who lit the fire and he needed to, because he had to, quote-unquote, "stop the steal," not have a pleasant political demonstration but actually get in there and keep Congress from doing its constitutional duties.

That is why, I think, the senators, even though we have, the three of us all set it to the side, we will see them try to grasp for this bogus constitutional argument, because it prevents them ever having to actually face these facts, which is the evidence show, of course, he was the instigator. Of course he failed to, quote-unquote, "take care" to do his job. Instead, he incited a mob to storm the Capitol and try to impede the operation of law.

VAUSE: Who needs a good legal argument when you have jurors like the Republican senator from Wisconsin, Ron Johnson, who will play almost anything as long as it's pro Trump.

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SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): Again, I have always believed the Russian hoax was a diverging operation from the corruption that was occurring within the FBI and potentially with some of our intelligence agencies. You need to ask the question, what is his impeachment about?

We now know that 45 Republican senators believe it is unconstitutional. Is this another diversion operation?

Will it deflect away from what the Speaker knew and when she knew it?

I don't know but I am suspicious.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: It is Nancy Pelosi, she was behind it.

There are important reasons why Trump should stand trial, but when it comes in the main purpose of the Senate hearings, it's kabuki theater.

EVAN MCMULLIN, STAND UP REPUBLIC: Kabuki theater in the sense that a majority of Republicans don't seem to be taking this seriously. They are looking for a procedural fig leaf to excuse their failure to live up to their oaths, to defend the Constitution. That is what they are looking for. They're looking to protect their power individually.

They're looking to protect their own power as a caucus in the Senate and they are looking to protect themselves and their post service in the Senate opportunities. Those are the dynamics.

In the first impeachment trial after the Ukraine scandal, when Trump tried to withhold critical military aid in the Ukraine, Senate Republicans and leadership, were talking privately about the need to protect Donald Trump, if they didn't, they would then put their own majority in the Senate at risk.

Senate Democrats would give statehood to Puerto Rico and Washington, D.C., and there would never be another Republican majority in the Senate again. That is literally the way they think.

Because of that, they are willing to accept any abuse of power, it seems, that the former president may have engaged in. VAUSE: The Trump defense team will also argue the First Amendment.

They say, when Trump said stuff like this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It was a rigged election. If you look at the different states, the election was totally rigged.

There is no way we lost Georgia, no way.

I've been in two elections, I won them both and the second one I won much bigger than the first.

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TRUMP: Because the only way we will lose this election is if the election is rigged, remember.

Frankly, we did win this election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Harry, just offering an opinion, right?

Free speech?

LITMAN: Exactly. This is, really, a deep misconception. First, Evan is 100 percent right, they can do what they want. It doesn't make it right. They swore an oath to the Constitution, there are right and wrong answers. We'll start with the First Amendment.

There is just a difference between a citizen on trial for what he said and the president of the United States inciting an insurrection with words. There are many ways to violate the take care clause with words. It does not make it protected.

He could become a Communist and stand up and recite "Kapital" at the State of the Union. He would be impeached for that. It does not matter that it is political speech. It is just a complete disconnect.

If they fasten onto that, it is just a way of avoiding their constitutional responsibility. Very important to distinguish between what they can do and what the Constitution compels them to do, having sworn an oath to uphold it.

VAUSE: Congressman Adam Kinzinger, writing an op-ed for "The Washington Post," pleading with his fellow Republicans in the Senate to convict Trump.

"If the GOP does not take a stand, the chaos of the past few months and the past four years could quickly return. The future of our party and our country depends on confronting what happened so it doesn't happen again."

Evan, clearly, I imagine you agree with him. What are the longtime consequences for the GOP and the United States? MCMULLIN: I do agree with him. Those are serious words that Congressman Kinzinger used in that piece and especially in that excerpt you quoted. The consequences are this. We had a former president who as president led, not just incited but led and orchestrated a violent insurrection against the government.

There must be accountability. There must be accountability. If our democracy, if our republic, is to last, there must be accountability for that kind of betrayal, for that kind of abuse of power, for that kind of treachery. There must be accountability.

And if there is not, I fear that we are going to see more such actions in the future. You're going to see a Republican Party that continues to distance itself from democracy, continues to drift toward being an anti-democracy party.

I think it's fair to say a great deal of the party has already gotten to that place obviously. There's plenty of evidence of that. We're a two-party system in this country. We need both parties to be committed to democracy and to our values and to truth, reason and decency.

Otherwise, our republic is in serious, serious peril. So these senators need to think long and hard about their place in history and about what history will say about them, their legacies will be if they fail to hold the former president accountable and we continue to have such dangerous threats to our democracy, such as a violent insurrection at the Capitol, inside the Capitol, to overturn the election, overturn the will of the American people.

They're inviting more of that if they don't hold this president accountable and they're making it much harder for the party to move past the president, as I know many of them privately would very much like to do.

VAUSE: It seems the more they give in to Trump, the more power he has over the Republican Party. Evan and Harry, thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it.

Now special live coverage of Trump's second impeachment trial starts at 5 pm Tuesday in London, 9 pm in Abu Dhabi, coverage only here on CNN.

Protests against the military coup in Myanmar now in their fourth day. Authorities are using water cannon to disperse demonstrators in the capital in the second largest city, Mandalay, is now under curfew. Public gatherings of more than 5 and public speeches are prohibited.

In Yangon demonstrators faced off against a line of police after the military leader promised new elections but didn't say when. CNN's Paula Hancocks following developments from Seoul.

At this point, the fact that they're using nonlethal means to control these protests is a sign that maybe the military is taking a softer approach.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think that's the hope of everybody watching. But it still a step up from what we have seen.

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HANCOCKS: Protesters have been at pains to say they are peaceful, not standing off against the police. In Naypyidaw on Monday, when the police said they'd use force then you saw the protesters go home.

A similar situation this Tuesday, the threat of force and as you said, water cannon have been used as well. And while it certainly isn't anything like we have seen in past decades in Myanmar, it is certainly a concern that there is some kind of force being used to trying to disperse these protests.

We are seeing these protests carry on in a number of different cities across the country. We are seeing a cross section of society. It's a grassroots movements at this point. On Monday you saw the student unions were leading one of the first wave of protests teachers, engineers, joined in; nurses, monks standing on the streets as well cheering on those who are marching past. Cars honking their horns in support.

It does appear at this point that the protests are not going to stop at anytime soon. You did mention there is a curfew in Mandalay. This is the second biggest city in Myanmar. It's an 8 pm to 5 am curfew. They do have the restrictions on gathering for more than 5 people.

Certainly, they are trying at this point to curtail people coming out from the streets. But it's not having an impact at this point. Also the military did say they did not want these protesters to affect democracy.

But of course, what the protesters are doing is saying they are fighting for democracy after that the democratically elected government back in November was taken from power in this military coup.

At this point we are seeing protesters continuing to be out on the streets. As I say, there is a slight step up in reaction from the military and from police. But clearly everyone within Myanmar and leaders around the world are watching very closely, hoping and calling for the military to refrain from any military force or violent force against the protesters.

VAUSE: Quickly, what do we know about Aung San Suu Kyi, who seems to be the focus of growing support among many protesters?

HANCOCKS: That's right. We are seeing many of these protesters holding a pictures of Aung San Suu Kyi. She is still remarkably popular within Myanmar itself despite having that fall from grace internationally.

But we understand at this point is she is under house arrest. We know she has -- she's had police charges against her for import and export laws relating to having using some walkie-talkies. Activists say they are trumped up charges against Aung San Suu Kyi but we have not heard from her directly. We have not had messages from her and certainly what we are hearing at

this point, spokespeople from her party at the NLD, the National League for Democracy. Certainly we are hearing this from leaders around the world as well, calling on Aung San Suu Kyi to be released, calling on the president as well and other leaders that have been detained to be released and for the military dictatorship to step down.

VAUSE: Paula, thank you.

Paula Hancocks with the very latest on the situation in Myanmar. Thank you.

Kim Jong-un is forging full speed ahead with North Korea's nuclear program. They've taken up a whole new business venture to try and pay for it all. That story and more.

Also South Africa puts AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine on hold. Officials come up with a new rollout strategy, we're live in South Africa with the details coming up.

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VAUSE: Scientists say a landslide likely caused a collapse in India which sent an avalanche of water and rocks down a mountain in gorge, destroying a dam and flooding the towns below. Experts say climate change was likely a factor.

Nearly 200 people remain missing, at least 26 were killed.

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VAUSE: New COVID infections are on the decline in the United States.

The question is for how long?

New cases were down almost 20 percent last week compared to the week prior. There are also fewer hospital admissions. Vaccinations are picking up. More than 42 million doses administered across the country. Health officials now fear the new variant spreading quickly throughout the country could see a surge in new infections.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: The continued proliferation of variants remains a great concern and is a threat that could reverse the recent trend, positive trends we are seeing.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The two things we can do is, A, make sure we adhere to the public health measures; B, get as many people vaccinated as quickly as we can. That's the best defense against the evolution of variants.

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VAUSE: There are similar concerns in Europe where officials are still trying to build trust in COVID vaccines. In the U.K., priority for residents in care homes, the health secretary says over 90 percent have received their first dose. More than the government expected.

Prime minister Boris Johnson says he is confident in all the vaccines currently approved for use.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS JOHNSON, U.K. PRIME MINISTER: We believe that our vaccines are effective in combating a serious disease and death against all variants.

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VAUSE: Meantime, new data from the U.K. shows the South African variant does not appear to be more transmissible than others. Health officials are urging everyone to get vaccinated sooner than later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONATHAN VAN-TAM, ENGLAND'S DEPUTY CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER: My advice to you is very simple: do not delay. Have the vaccine that will protect you against the current threat. And don't worry, you can be re-vaccinated.

For people who have had a full course of two vaccines, a re- vaccination is probably going to only require one dose. That requires some science work to confirm, it but that is my hunch.

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VAUSE: South Africa's modifying the nationwide rollout for the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine. The vaccine program was put on hold Sunday after a study showing little protection against mild to moderate infections from the variant which was first found there.

Health officials are planning a stepped approach, inoculating 100,000 people or so to see the vaccine reduces any severe illness and hospital admissions. If so, the widespread rollout will proceed as planned. If not, the country could switch to a different vaccine.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So we need a wider array of vaccines. We need new generation vaccines that are much broader in the immunity, that are able to kill a wide range of variants and, as new variants emerge, we will have the ability to rapidly produce a new booster shot that deals with new variants.

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VAUSE: CNN's Eleni Giokos is with us live from South Africa.

Can you explain what's going on here with the new data and how all this will pan out in the coming weeks?

ELENI GIOKOS, CNNMONEY CORRESPONDENT: John, highly disappointing research and outcomes. The 75 percent efficacy that was achieved with the AstraZeneca vaccine before October 2020 was not replicated after that, when the variant became dominant in South Africa.

So this basically derails the vaccine program that was meant to start just this week. The country received 1 million doses of AstraZeneca vaccine last week -- they were set to receive another half million and, of course, chip away at creating herd immunity in the country.

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GIOKOS: What we do know here is that it offers mild to medium protection against mild and moderate COVID-19, against the variant in particular. But what they do not know here is that whether it has an impact on the severity of the illness and an impact on hospitalizations.

To be able to do that, they need to cast a wider net, focusing on people over the age of 65 and people with comorbidities, like HIV patients as well. So this is going to be a vital step forward.

If the numbers again are highly diminished, this is when they need to start looking seriously at other programs as well. We know they are talking about Johnson & Johnson. That vaccine will be produced in South Africa locally. They want to expedite that.

And the hope here is that it will have a bit of efficacy against these variants. The fear from the get-go has always been just what does the variant mean that has been emerging around the world in different forms going to have on the first generation vaccinations?

And how is that going to impact the pandemic going forward?

The country is currently getting out of the second wave. Experts are concerned that now the third wave is literally around the corner. And without a tangible vaccine program, this derails the country's plans for trying to get the pandemic under control.

VAUSE: Eleni, thank you. Eleni Giokos live with the very latest.

Still to come we will have more on the coup in Myanmar. Protesters facing off against security forces as the military sends a message to Rohingya refugees with a promise to repatriate those displaced. We'll have the latest on the status of hundreds of thousands of refugees when we come back.

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(MUSIC PLAYING) VAUSE: Welcome back.

The new U.S. secretary of state, Antony Blinken, speaking to CNN about the all major global challenges facing the Biden administration right now. He spoke to CNN's Wolf Blitzer.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: President Biden is warning that he won't, in his words, hesitate to raise the cost on Russia, but so far, the Biden administration hasn't offered any specifics. What does that cost from your perspective look like?

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, first, I think when it comes to Mr. Navalny, the fact the Russia feels compelled, that Mr. Putin feels compelled to try to silence one voice speaks volumes about how important that voice is and how it's representative of so many millions of Russians who want to be heard and who are fed up with the corruption and with the kleptocracy.

But what we're doing is, first of all, consulting and working closely with other countries who are very concerned about what's happened, not just to Mr. Navalny but others who have stood up to exercise their rights. But, second, Wolf, as you know, it seems apparent that a chemical weapon was used to try to kill Mr. Navalny. That violates --

We're reviewing that. We're looking at that very carefully. And when we have results, we'll take action in the appropriate way.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: You're facing a stalemate, apparently, when it comes to Iran, the Iran nuclear deal. Iran's ayatollah says the U.S. needs to lift sanctions before it returns to the deal. President Biden says he won't lift sanctions first. So what happens now?

BLINKEN: Well, the president has been very clear about this. If Iran returns to compliance with its obligations on the nuclear agreement, we would do the same thing, and then we would work with our allies and partners to try to build a longer and stronger agreement. And also, bring in some of these other issues like Iran's missile program. Like it's destabilizing actions in the region that need to be addressed, as well.

The problem we face now, Wolf, is that in recent months, Iran has lifted one restraint after another that was -- They were being held in check by the agreement. We got out of the agreement. Iran started to lift the various restraints in the agreement. And the result is they are closer than they've been to having the capacity, on short order, to produce the solid material for a nuclear weapon.

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VAUSE: More now on the military coup in Myanmar. The new military leader has promised free and fair elections and a peaceful transfer of power. He just didn't mention when. He also said he would keep the government's agreements, including

repatriation of Myanmar's displaced Rohingya Muslims.

Yanghee Lee was a U.N. special rapporteur for Myanmar. She is with us this hour from Seoul.

Yanghee Lee, thank you so much for taking the time. We've heard from the commander in chief of Myanmar's military, the same guy who, three years ago, oversaw attempted genocide of Rohingya Muslims. He's now running the country. He had a message to nearly a million Rohingya he didn't kill. They're living across the border in refugee camps in Bangladesh. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIN AUNG HLAING, MYANMAR MILITARY JUNTA LEADER (through translator): For the people in Bangladesh, we will continue to manage the situation according to bilateral agreements which comply with our standards.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: You know, maybe it's a translation, but to "comply with our standards" sounds especially ominous.

YANGHEE LEE, FORMER U.N. SPECIAL RAPPORTEUR FOR MYANMAR: Yes, I would say so.

VAUSE: What else do you read into this, though?

LEE: Well, you know, it was (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that the Rohingyas were unfinished business. And so I don't know what it means here, is if he wants to finish the business, or if he wants them to return.

VAUSE: I think we're having some issues with Yanghee Lee's audio. Are we? Should we keep going? OK.

Yanghee Lee, could you just stand by? We're just getting some technical problems. We'll come back to you in a moment.

In the meantime, let's just go over to a story about North Korea. The North Koreans back in the nuclear weapons business. In fact, a new U.N. report says it never really left.

According to details obtained by CNN, Pyongyang has announced preparations for new missile testing and production, in defiance of international sanctions. And it's all financed by cybercrime.

CNN's Will Ripley following the story live from Hong Kong.

You know, Will, North Korea, defying international sanctions, not exactly breaking news. And this has not been a huge state secret. We're talking about the submarine launching missile a few weeks ago, its own military parade, and so is everything else.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And Pyongyang has been signaling, John, that you know, after unveiling these weapons, that there could be a test coming. Kim Jong-un told his military to prepare, to perfect these weapons.

There are a couple of tidbits in this annual report from the U.N. Security Council sanctions committee that I find interesting. One, they claimed that $316 million in funding came through cybercrimes like hacking into financial institutions, stealing bitcoin, that sort of thing.

Also, they say that North Korea and Iran have resumed cooperation, including exchanging critical parts for missiles. This is how both countries get around the sanctions. One person supplies one part, the other supplies the other part. Boom, you've got a missile.

Iran has denied these claims in the U.N. report, saying that they're based on fabricated intelligence. But we do know that North Korea and Iran have long been accused of collaborating. And given that President Trump pulled out of the Iran nuclear deal, and North Korea, seeing the United States pull out of that deal, giving it a lot less incentive to try to play ball with Washington, even though Trump and Kim met three times in 2018 and 2019. It should be a surprise to nobody that both of those countries could be now potentially working back together again, according to this U.N. report, John.

VAUSE: I guess one thing which it does seem to emphasize is the futility of Donald Trump's effort at sort of sweet-talking Kim Jong-un into giving up his nukes.

RIPLEY: Yes. That personal relationships got them a lot of made-for-TV moments, but during all of 2020, with North Korea's borders shut down, even though they weren't testing anything, they were certainly developing and even parading these nuclear weapons. Long-range, intercontinental, ballistic missiles, medium-range missiles, short- range missiles and, as you mentioned, submarine-launched ballistic missiles.

[00:35:10]

Now, experts are saying, according to this U.N. report, that on those long-, medium-, and short-range missiles, North Korea probably has the capability right now to put a nuclear warhead on the missile.

What they don't know if North Korea can do yet is whether an ICBM could go up into space and then re-enter the earth's atmosphere and survive. That kind of technology, of course, will be critical of North Korea were to launch of strike, hypothetically, at the mainland United States, say Los Angeles or New York.

In order for North Korea to know, John, that they have that capability, they would have to test further, many experts say, which again, kind of keeps leading us toward what many see as a likely scenario that, at some point, in the Biden administration, he's going to face yet another North Korean test of some kind.

VAUSE: That is without a doubt. Will, thank you. Will Ripley, live for us there in Hong Kong. Some good analysis and the latest information. Thank you.

We'll take a short break. You're watching CNN. We'll be back in a moment.

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[00:38:12]

VAUSE: Let's stay with our story in Myanmar, the military coup there. Yanghee Lee is the former U.N. rapporteur for Myanmar. She is with us, we hope, from Seoul. We've sorted our problems.

I just want to get your reaction, though, to the -- the situation there right now with these protests which are now into their fourth day, the military responding with water cannons and nighttime curfews. Where does this all go?

LEE: Well, you know, I think the military was quite silent for a few days, letting the protest run its course, but now they're coming out with water cannons and stricter regulations.

They've declared emergency curfews in the evening from 8 p.m. to 4. And in many townships, military -- emergency state kind of orders have been released.

So I'm afraid that now they're going to start to crack down with the banning of the social media. And sometimes the Internet goes on and off. I'm really worried that the international community will not be able to see what is actually going on in Myanmar.

VAUSE: With that in mind, does that mean it's a question of when, not if the ethnic cleansing will begin again?

LEE: Yes, absolutely. And I'd like to address your attention to a recent post by one of the NLD parliamentarians, Zuma Aung (ph), where she tells the real reason, which confirms what I had said earlier. The coup was because Min Aung Hlaing, the current commander in chief, wanted to extend his powers longer, maybe assume -- assume a president position or even to extend his commander-in-chief position for another five years, which was rejected by NLD.

So it really goes back to their greed and the willingness or the ambition to stay in power, because as I said many times, they have so much financial gains in military enterprises. Him himself, his family, his associates, his cronies, and many military enterprises have influences from military leadership.

[00:40:26]

VAUSE: So just -- we've heard from the military leader, the new -- the guy who's running the country, the man who's responsible for the genocide. He's basically said Myanmar will stick to its agreements for repatriation of the refugees currently in Bangladesh. If they're sent back under these current circumstances, is that a death sentence?

LEE: I would say so, because as I said earlier, he said the Rohingyas were unfinished business. And with his -- his ploy about we will continue with the repatriation, dialog, I'm really afraid, once they come back, that he will finish the business once and for all. VAUSE: Once they're done with the Rohingya, who's next?

LEE: Well, I mean, there's a lot of ethnic communities that have been under military clashes over Myanmar. There's Arakan army, the Rakhine -- the Rakhine ethnic people. The Chins -- the Kachins, the Kayins, the Kayah, the Mon. All of the ethnic states that were rife with clashes with Tak-Madang (ph).

VAUSE: So there's this real fear now that the military in charge, with whatever restraint, however small it was, that Aung San Suu Kyi and the other civilians were able to put in place, that leaves that restraint -- it will be no longer there. It will be much worse than it was before.

LEE: It will be much worse. I think we may have not have seen something like this ever before. So it could be worse now. Now they have control of -- recently there was $350 million sent in by IMF for a COVID response relief program. Now that's all in the hands of the military, too.

VAUSE: You know, over the years you've been vilified by many inside Myanmar for standing up for the right -- for the rights of the Rohingya.

There's been some kind of epiphany in the days after the coup. You've seen a lot of messages like this one. "Forgive me for misunderstanding you in the recent years." You were now reminded, "I sincerely apologize to you. Thank you for that."

And that's sort of very typical. How do you explain this? Is this now sort of a fear of what happened to the Rohingya could happen to others?

LEE: Yes. There was no hard feelings. It was all the 60 years of military indoctrination and propaganda against the Rohingyas. I think that has really had deep-rooted sentiments within the Bamar, the Buddhist ethnic majority of the people.

VAUSE: Yanghee Lee, thank you so much for being with, as always. Your time is valuable. It is appreciated. Thank you.

LEE: Thank you very much.

VAUSE: Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm John Vause. Stay with us. I will be back in 15 minutes. In the meantime, WORLD SPORT is up next.

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