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The EU Commissioner Explains Why The Vaccine Roll Out In Europe Takes More Time; Loujain al-Hathloul Has Been Released From Prison; On Monday Crown Prince bin Salman Announced Draft Reforms To Improve Human Rights; A Mathematical Biologist, Kim Yates, Says All The COVID- 19 In The World Could Be Shoved In A Soda Can. Aired 4:30-5a ET
Aired February 11, 2021 - 04:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[04:30:00]
CYRIL VANIER, CNN ANCHOR: The trials that are currently underway in Latin America and the U.S., they may reverse their decisions and extend the populations to which this -- with whom this AstraZeneca vaccine could be administered.
KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, excellent explanation there. Now on the vaccines in Europe there was a mea culpa of sorts from the leader of the European Union over the rollout. Take us through that.
VANIER: Mea culpa of sorts, I love the way you frame it Kim, that's exactly what it was and it came from the Head of the European Union Commissioner Ursula von der Leyen. She said we may have been -- first of all we were slow in approving the vaccines and she explained why.
She said the European Medicines Agency in her words does not cut corners when it comes to approving a biological agent that is going to be injected in healthy subjects. And that means it takes three to four weeks longer in the E.U.
Now longer than who, she didn't say. But she likely meant longer than the U.K., because we know they approved their first vaccine about a month before the E.U. did. So, she acknowledged that the E.U. took longer to approve vaccines and that the E.U. had missed the mark on mass production of the vaccine.
She said they had simply been too confident that the companies to (ph) which they ordered the vaccine actually would have the quantities produced as they had promised. So, one thing, however, that Ursula von der Leyen defended was the overall architecture of the E.U. vaccination program, and that means buying the 27 -- the vaccines for the 27 member states, procuring them for the entirety of the European Union. She said we had to do it in the name of solidarity and the integrity of the European single market.
BRUNHUBER: All right, thank you so much. CNN's Cyril Vanier in Paris. Appreciate it.
Well this is CNN NEWSROOM. Still to come, home after more than 1,000 days in a Saudi prison. Why the release of this woman's rights activist may signal a change in Saudi Arabia's behavior now that Biden's in the White House. Stay with us.
[04:32.10]
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[04:35:20]
BRUNHUBER: And welcome back, I'm Kim Brunhuber. One of Saudi Arabia's most prominent women's right campaigner has been released from prison. Loujain al-Hathloul has spent more than 1,000 days in prison for what critics and human rights activists have described as politically motivated charges. Her sister tweeted this picture hours ago after al- Hathloul arrived home.
International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson's reported multiple times from Saudi Arabia and he joins us now from London. So, a huge relief there and a win of sorts, one might say, for the Biden administration.
You've been following this story, what's the latest?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, for others sort of trying to bring international pressure on Saudi Arabia to release this particular activists, we're -- CNN has seen her charge sheet and it said that she was active in trying to sort of overturn the kingdom's male guardianship laws. That's something that actually the government's overturned now in the last month.
But the charge sheet also said other things she, for example, that she had been in contact with foreign diplomats and journalists and evidence was put down on that charge sheet that included the fact that she had applied for a job with the United Nations. So, this -- her case had raised a lot of questions, had attracted a lot of attention and now she's finally home.
This is what 1,001 nights in a Saudi jail have done to rights activist Loujain al-Hathloul. She campaigned for women to be able to drive, was arrested May 2018, finally released Wednesday despite refusing to back down from her claims of torture, which the government denies.
President Joe Biden pleased.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She was a powerful advocate for women's rights and releasing her was the right thing to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: During a court appearance late last year her family was shocked at her condition.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LINA AL-HATHLOUL, SISTER OF LOUJAIN AL-HATHLOUL : My parents saw that she was very weak, that her body was shaking and that her voice as well. But, even with that she was still very focused and wanted to read her whole defense, her and other activists were being electrocuted. One (ph) reported (ph) flogged and beaten, deprived of sleep, force fed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: Now taking to Twitter her family demanding all changes against her are dropped and her torturers held to account. The U.S. State Department pushed for her release.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NED PRICE, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: I wouldn't want to attach motives to the conduct of any other government. What I can say is what is what I said previously. The release in this case would be a very positive development, something we would welcome. It is something we have pressed for.
BIDEN: We're ending all American support for offensive operations in the War in Yemen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: Indeed, since President Joe Biden took over from his predecessor, Saudi is seeing a sea change in attitude.
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BIDEN: Upholding universal rights, respecting the rule of law and treating every person with dignity.
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ROBERTSON: Human rights a cornerstone of his administration. Late last year Saudi government officials were convinced of Loujain's guilt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADEL AL-JUBEIR, FORMER MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS SAUDI ARABIA: I believe the charges have to do with trying to recruit people in sensitive position in the government in order to obtain sensitive documents and give them to hostile powers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: Back then country's Minister of State for Foreign Affairs says Saudi wouldn't bow to international pressure to release Loujain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AL-JUBEIR: We're not subject to pressure. We don't allow people to put pressure on us in order to do things that are against our interest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: It's not clear if minds are changed now, but in the past week several other high profile detainees have received sudden leniency. Last Thursday two Saudi American activists, Dr. Bader al- Ibrahim and Salah al-Haider detained for 673 days were released on bail pending court appearances.
On Sunday Ali al-Nimr a teenager when he was arrested for taking part in an anti-government protest in 2012 had his death sentence commuted to 10 years, release likely later this year.
And Monday the country's powerful Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, MBS, announced draft reforms in part to improve human rights a government statement said.
[04:40:00]
France's President, Emmanuel Macron welcomed Loujain's release. The U.N.'s top human rights defender called on Saudi to release all others imprisoned for their human rights work.
Now the family of Juda (ph) hold a press conference in the coming hours. Loujain is unlikely to speak we understand because of the sort of terms and conditions of her release so far. But I think we are going to expect to hear the family want accountability for the claims of torture. They may name specific individuals. So we're going to here that from the family. And I think were also going to continue to hear a pressing from other international voices and organizations of concern (ph).
For about some of the other lower level less well known activists that may still be in jail and also concern being expressed for very senior figures of the former government like Mohammed bin Nayef the Former Crown Prince worked extensively with the United States on tackling Al- Qaeda. People familiar with his situation are worried about his physical condition and what he's going through.
So I think - I think this is going to add to the voices criticizing the kingdom at the moment. Kim.
BRUNHUBER: Well let's hope all that comes true. Thank you so much, Nic Robertson in London.
The new U.S. President is working to repair international alliances that the Trump administration damaged. Some of them mending will be fairly straight forward but when it comes to Turkey the diplomacy will be more difficult. Jomana Karadsheh explains from Istanbul.
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TRUMP: It is a great honor to have President Erdo?an from Turkey here -
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Few world leaders have the kind of relationship Turkey's President, Recep Tayyip Erdo?an had with Former President Donald Trump. That bromance, as some described it may have prevented a total rupture of U.S./Turkish relations that continue to sour over long standing disagreements.
From the U.S. the support for Kurdish led fighters in Syria that Turkey considers terrorists and it's many national security threat. To NATO member Turkey's purchase of the Russian S400 missile defense system that triggered rare U.S. sanctions against a decades old ally.
Now the U.S. President inherits the same old disputes with an increasingly assertive Turkey.
ASLI AYDINTASBAS, EUROPEAN COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: A lot has changed over the past four years. This is not the Turkey of a decade ago. With it's smooth role in the Transatlantic alliance, Turkey is now clearly a resurgent power wanting to have a military footprint outside of its borders. In fact having a military presence in six, seven, eight locations across the Middle East and Eastern Mediterranean including Libya.
KARADSHEH: Turkey's military interventions and this more forceful foreign policy irked many in the region and beyond.
AYDINTASBAS: Turkey is very isolated regionally so I think everyone understands that he needs to have a good relationship with United States, a better relations. I don't think they want to start off on the a bad footing. We're already seeing everyone pivot - trying to pivot to Europe. Going a charm (ph) offensive and sending positive messages to Washington.
KARADSHEH: Since President Joe Biden's win there's been a clear shift in (inaudible) town, Turkey's President spokesman told CNN's Becky Anderson their ready for change.
IBRAHAM KALIN, CHIEF ADVISOR TO TURKISH PRIME MINISTER: Our President has said that Turkey is ready to start talking about purchasing patriot or other defense system from NATO allies. So we are ready to do it. We are ready for full cooperation. We believe that we will have a need (ph) for a page turn with the Biden administration.
He knows Turkey, he knows the Turkish political scene, he knows the leadership here, he knows our President. He came to Turkey four times as Vice President and I believe he will take all that experience and context you know into his new position as the President of the United States.
KARADSHEH: The Biden administration has signaled it will be taking a harder line against Turkey and it will likely be far less tolerant of a worsening human rights record largely ignored by the previous administration. But the two countries still need each other.
AYDINTASBAS: Turkey is a significant country and I think that for Syria, for Iraq and in terms of pushing back against Russian influence in the Middle East, Turkey is very important. The Turkish/Russian relationship is also very complex. They look very close but Turkey is - but they're also limiting each others power in different theaters. That too is very precious for U.S. interest. So there is every reason to make this work.
[04:45:00]
KARADSHEH: Turkey's leadership knows very well that dealing with Biden's America is going to be really different. No more will this be mostly based on a personal relationship between two presidents.
And an open phone line to the White House is going to be a return to the traditional ways of doing business institution to institution, state to state. And that may just be the reset this complicated relationship needs. Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, Istanbul.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
BRUNHUBER: And now for some other news we're following at this hour. Rescue crews in India are still searching for survivors after a glacier collapsed on Sunday sent floods of water, rock and debris down a mountain valley.
Close to 200 people are still missing, some of them construction workers trapped in a tunnel. Rescuers say mud and boulders are still blocking access to some tunnels. Police say at least 32 bodies have been recovered so far from across the region.
And porn mogul Larry Flynt, a self described 'smut peddler who cares' has died at the age of 78.
Flynt founded Hustler magazine and a whole adult's entertainment empire but he's been in frail health for decades. His cause of death wasn't disclosed but a relative says it wasn't related to coronavirus. Flynt was paralyzed after being shot in 1978 by a white supremacist who objected to interracial coupes appearing in Hustler.
Flynt was also an outspoken free speech activist who briefly ran for U.S. president in 1984. In 2012 he wrote for CNN Opinion, "The best thing the arbiters of decency and good taste can do is to stay out of other people's lives." Greatest thing that -- "the greatest right that any nation can afford its people is the right to be left alone."
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[04:50:00]
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BRUNHUBER: We're going to have something a little light-hearted here. A U.S. congressman showed up for a committee meeting upside down. Tom Emmer didn't know how to work his video software, but he's not the only one.
After all who could forget the Zoom call where a lawyer couldn't figure out how to remove a cat filter from his video, while Emmer eventually figured the problem out, but it startled his colleagues at first.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TOM EMMER, (R) U.S. REPRESENTATIVE, MINNESOTA: Today's gig economy sprung out from the last recession. It offers a job to anyone who wants one. During COVID-19 we must make sure that our nation's sole proprietors and the smallest of small businesses receive timely (inaudible).
MAXINE WATERS, (D) U.S. REPRESENTATIVE, CALIFORNIA: Permission to suspend. I'm sorry, Mr. Emmer.
EMMER: Yes?
WATERS: Are you OK?
EMMER: I am.
UNKNOWN: You're upside down Tom.
EMMER: I don't know how to fix that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: All right, picture this if you took all the particles of COVID-19 from around the world and wanted to stuff them inside an object every bit of them would fit inside a soda can with some room to spare, that's according to a British mathematician who wanted to calculate the total volume of COVID-19 in circulation.
After crunching the numbers he says, "It's astonishing to think that all the trouble, the disruption, the hardship, and the loss of life that has resulted over the last year could constitute just a few mouthfuls."
Now (ph), with us now, Kit Yates, the mathematical biologist behind the estimate is a senior lecturer at the University of Bath and the author of The Math's of Life and Death. Thank you so much for joining us. As you say so eloquently there, amazing that, you know, so little -- you know, that would fit in here could cause so much death and devastation.
I won't ask you exactly how you went about calculating this because it would -- it would take too long but just explain in more general terms how something so widespread could add up to this tiny amount.
KIT YATES, CENTER FOR MATHEMATICAL BIOLOGY, UNIV. OF BATH: Yes. So, when we're calculating it we need to know how much -- how many particles there are so we need to have an estimate of how many people are infected, and we also need to know how many particles each person is (ph) holding at any one time.
If you add all of those up you get about 200 quadrillion which is a huge number of particles, it's a two with 17 zeros after it but each one of them is incredibly small, they're about 50 nanometers in radius, 100 nanometers across, that's about 1,000 times thinner than a human hair.
And so when you combine something that's incredibly small, even if there are huge numbers of them, they can fit into a relatively small volume.
BRUNHUBER: I mean did it surprise you when you -- when you added it up and it came -- and you came up with that number?
YATES: Yes, certainly. I had no sort of preconception about what it was going to be. Like, you hear these standard sizes like the volume of a swimming pool or the volume of a teaspoon, and actually, you know, it turned out to be somewhere in between that.
But certainly given the amount of destruction and devastation it's caused across the globe, it's amazing to think that you could pack it into such a small region of space.
BRUNHUBER: Yes. To put it in perspective like this, why does it matter? Aside from, you know, highlighting how vulnerable we are as a species to even the most minuscule threat as if we needed any further reminder.
YATES: Yes, I mean, so, I'm a -- I'm a math populizer, that's part of what I do as well as being an author. And I think this a really good -- a good way to emphasize how important mathematics can be and we've seen that throughout this pandemic.
You know, people are talking about the reproduction number on the news every day, people are talking about exponential growth, it's a great time to get people involved in mathematics. In order to make people understand the way we predict what's going to happen in the future is by using mathematical models to -- those are the best ways we have of formulating our assumptions about what's going to happen and then predicting what's going to happen in the future. So, sort of to emphasize that math is a really, really important tool that we have in our arsenal against the pandemic.
BRUNHUBER: Yes, absolutely. And you're part of an independent group of scientists that provides transparent advice during the COVID crisis. So, if you could, you know, directly advise let's say Boris Johnson, or any national leader for that matter, you know, of one thing and they were guaranteed to act on it, what would that thing be?
[04:55:00]
YATES: So I think -- well, one thing would be to learn the mistakes -- learn from mistakes that have been made in the past in terms of releasing lockdowns too early or not locking down quickly enough.
But also the major thing that'd make a huge difference in the U.K. is support for people to isolate. We can find people's contacts. We can tell them to isolate. But if people can't afford to do that, then they will go out and they will spread the disease around and that's how COVID passes on between people.
So, supporting people to isolate, to stay home so they don't have to make difficult choices about whether they're going to work and infect their colleagues or whether they stay home but potentially they don't have money to put food on the table. That would make an enormous difference. BRUNHUBER: Yes. And just lastly, when we think about what you've -- what you've come up with, the size of this, should it change the way we think about this virus that's seemingly all around us?
YATES: I think it's something that we need -- we need to take into account. I think we need to remember and maybe be a bit humble in the face of this virus to think that such a small amount of material can bring us to our knees. And we need to think about how we can go forward stop this from happening again.
BRUNHUBER: All right. We'll listen. Thank you so much for being with us. It certainly blew our minds when we read about this. Kit Yates, thanks again for your time.
YATES: Cheers.
BRUNHUBER: And thank all of you for watching. I'm Kim Brunhuber. Early Start is up next. You are of course watching CNN.
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