Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump's Defense Team Goes On Offense Against Democrats; Decision On Whether To Convict Trump Could Come Today; Patchwork Pandemic Response In Europe; U.S. Capitol Police Officer Receives Congressional Gold Medal. Aired 3-3:30a ET

Aired February 13, 2021 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello, everyone, and welcome to Studio 7 here at CNN Center in Atlanta. I am Michael Holmes. Thanks for your company.

Coming up here on CNN NEWSROOM, just hours before a Senate vote on impeaching Donald Trump, new details emerge, appearing to show the former president refusing to call off Capitol rioters.

Also, new clashes between the military and protesters in Myanmar, soldiers firing rubber bullets at demonstrators demanding the return of their ousted elected leaders.

And Australia's second largest state suspense flights amid a new COVID lockdown, we're live in Sydney with details.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

HOLMES: Welcome, everyone.

A momentous decision expected Saturday in the U.S. Senate on whether to convict former president Donald Trump of inciting last month's deadly violence at the U.S. Capitol.

Trump's legal team put on a brief but pretty aggressive defense at his impeachment trial Friday, accusing Democrats of using the proceedings to settle political scores.

Also, new details have emerged about a heated phone call between Trump and House Republican leader Kevin McCarthy during the Capitol attack, McCarthy asking for help, but according to a GOP source, Trump dismissing him saying, quote, "Well, Kevin, I guess these people are more upset about the election than you are."

McCarthy responded with an obscenity. Our Ryan Nobles on the Trump team's defense strategy and what could happen next.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tonight, Donald Trump's legal team expecting an acquittal using just three hours of the 16 hours granted to defend him in the Senate.

BRUCE CASTOR, TRUMP DEFENSE LAWYER: This concludes the formal defense of the 45th President of the United States to the impeachment article filed by the House of Representatives.

NOBLES (voice-over): Knowing Democrats are unlikely to get the needed two thirds of the Senate to convict Trump, his defense team arguing President Trump's words were not intended to be used literally and highlighted Democrats using similar rhetoric.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will fight like hell.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): We fight back.

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA), CHAIR, SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: This fight does not end tonight.

CASTOR: The House managers' claim is that the president of the United States was telling the audience to get -- to get each other to physically fight. But that is not what the president said.

NOBLES (voice-over): But during the question and answer period, the House impeachment managers responded. By pointing out that Trump's words were followed by physical violence and that he had been calling them to action for weeks.

STACEY PLASKETT (D), DELEGATE TO U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: President Trump had spent months calling his supporters to March on a specific day, at a specific time, for a specific purpose. What else were they're going to do to stop the certification of the election on that day but to stop you?

NOBLES (voice-over): Trump's lawyers argued the riots would have happened with or without his encouragement.

MICHAEL VAN DER VEEN, TRUMP DEFENSE ATTORNEY: A small group who came to engage in violent and menacing behavior hijacked the event for their own purposes.

NOBLES (voice-over): And claiming the point of the impeachment pursuit was just to eliminate Trump as a future political rival.

VAN DER VEEN: It's about Democrats trying to disqualify their political opposition. It is constitutional cancel culture.

NOBLES (voice-over): Both sides used the question-and-answer period to zero in on claims made by the legal teams. Democratic senators attempting to pin down when President Trump knew vice president Pence was in danger.

The Trump team claimed when he tweeted attacking Pence, he had no clue the vice president had been rushed out of the chamber.

VAN DER VEEN: At no point was the president informed the vice president was in any danger. Because the House rushed through the impeachment in 7 days with no evidence, there's nothing at all on the record at this point.

NOBLES (voice-over): But that claim runs contrary to the timing of the tweet. 2:24 pm, which was 10 minutes after the former president was told by senator Tommy Tuberville that the VP was being evacuated.

[03:05:00]

NOBLES: And this trial is going much quicker than we anticipated with the question and answer wrapping up today after the Trump legal team using only three of the 16 hours they had available to them.

That means Saturday will be dedicated to closing arguments and then the possibility of a final vote to convict or acquit the former president by sometime Saturday evening.

And based on the response from both Democrats and Republicans after today's testimony, it still seems very likely that there won't be those 17 Republican votes to cross over with Democrats to convict the former president, which means he will likely to be acquitted -- Ryan Nobles, CNN, on Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: The U.S. President Joe Biden has not had a lot to say about the impeachment trial, at least not publicly. He took a walk on Friday morning to look at the Valentine's Day hearts that the first lady had set up on the North Lawn. He did respond to some questions from CNN about the proceedings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm just anxious to see whether -- what my Republican friends do, will they stand up.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: And you are not planning to speak with any of them about what --

BIDEN: No. I am not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Former federal prosecutor, Michael Zeldin joining me now. He is also former special assistant to Robert Mueller.

It is good to see you again, Michael. Let's talk about this right now. For Democrats, this was an out of context, false equivalence, whataboutism defense. Saying the Democrats said the same things, even if none of those things led to a violent insurrection.

What was your take on what you heard?

MICHAEL ZELDIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So, I think that the prosecution proved its case, in its case in chief and I think the defense put on a super Scrabble (ph) defense. But I, think at the end of the day, the president will be acquitted. I think that the equivalence that the parties tried to show, the defense said, well, prosecutor, they do this, we do this, no harm, no foul.

I think that is how they are trying to present this, and it may be a big enough hook for the Republicans. But really, it's not a very persuasive case if you're the American public listening in on what happened there.

HOLMES: It was interesting, because I was following your Twitter during the presentation and, at one point, you tweeted out -- and I will read this for people -- "Legal adage: when the law is on your side, pound the law. When the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When you have neither, pound the table. The Trump defense was merely a table pounding. It had no substantive merit."

Expand on that.

ZELDIN: The so the law they tried to interpose on this case, the First Amendment protecting speech, really, is not relevant. The First Amendment protects criminalization of speech and there's no criminal penalty on this case.

Further, the president is not being tried for his speech on January the 6th, he's being tried for a months-long effort to undermine the certification of Biden's win.

Further, they argue that there was no due process given to the president, meaning, he was not given a meaningful chance to contest the charges. Of course, he was. He was asked, in fact, whether he even wants to come to the trial and testify. So, he did not come, he declined that offer.

All of the things they are asserting as legal defenses, really, are not legal defenses. What we have is a pounding of the table, making noise, pointing fingers, making accusations, doing this whataboutism, what about this, what about that, you did this, I did this and that's not really a defense. But it's noise in the system and that may be all that is necessary for Republicans.

HOLMES: To that point, you can fairly ask, if the Trump team even needed to make a good case, given the partisan nature of the jury. Regardless, speak to the importance of the protest and the impact of an acquittal on what a president is able to do and, maybe, get away with in his final days in office.

ZELDIN: Yes. So, in some respects, the managers of the House are trying this case to the jury, the senators, to the American and international public who are watching this thing. But also, for history.

This case will be studied, so they want to make a complete record of what is going on and they want to put future presidents on notice that they, really, cannot do this. Even if they are acquitted, they will face the stigma of being impeached and no one really wants that scarlet letter on them. But an acquittal, at the same time, may give some rogue president

sometime, into the future, the notion that, if Trump got away with it, I can get away with it. There is no governor on my behavior, because of the Trump president and there we go.

[03:10:00]

HOLMES: If this wasn't what it is and that is a political, not a judicial process, but if it were a judicial process, with a truly impartial jury, you are a former prosecutor, would you think that the impeachment managers' case would win?

ZELDIN: Yes, I think it would. I think what they have established, pretty clearly, is that the president assembled a mob, he incited the mob and then he sent them off to do that which they did, which was to storm the Capitol, to present, prevent, the certification of the election. Their motto was stop the steal. Well, the steal, really, is the certification. So, they were going there to stop the steal. The only way you can stop the steal is what they did, which is to interfere with the process.

So, I think the House managers prove that case and I don't think the defense ably defended it.

Michael, I think the biggest problem of the Trump defense team had was that once the insurrection began and the president knew what was going on, he did nothing to stop it. That sort of proves his state of mind, saying, essentially, I see what is going on, I like what is going on, it is what I asked them to do and I am not going to stop it.

That, I think, is the most telling evidence against him and that was not refuted in the impeachment trial, which is why I think they would win in a real criminal trial, were this a criminal trial.

HOLMES: Fascinating. Great analysis as always. Michael, good to see you.

ZELDIN: Thank you so much, good to see you, take care.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: CNN, of course, will have special wall-to-wall coverage of Saturday's final proceedings in the Trump impeachment trial if you want to tune in for that. It begins 9 am Washington time on the U.S. East Coast. If you are in London 2 in the afternoon, 10 pm if you are in Hong Kong, right here on CNN.

Thousands of people have been protesting across Myanmar for the 8th straight day. Public shows defiance growing stronger, less than 2 weeks since the military seized power from the civilian government. Will Ripley is in Hong Kong for us.

A week into these protests, what has been happening?

They seem to be getting more determined. WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you have hundreds of small

groups, Michael, groups of maybe 1,000 or 2,000 people spread out in various locations across the country. These are student groups, union, trade unions, civic organizations, professional groupings of people, holding up their banners and announcing their anger, their outrage over the fact that, even though the people of Myanmar voted overwhelmingly for the National League for Democracy Party led by Aung San Suu Kyi and overwhelmingly defeated the military proxy parties, who got just a couple of dozen votes, nonetheless, the military says there was election fraud, unfounded claims of election fraud.

They have now arrested top government leaders. They've arrested well over 300 protesters and the number of arrests, the crackdown is expected to continue.

People are fearful that in the coming hours, as that 8 pm local time curfew kicks in that they could be taken into custody. The police are using increasingly aggressive tactics. You have those new images of police firing rubber bullets at unarmed protesters, even though the reports say protesters are throwing rocks at the police. You have water cannons out.

Then you have this young woman, 19 or 20 years old, Mya Thwe Thwe Khaing, who remains on life support in very critical condition, with many people speculating that she has a very small chance of recovery, who has become kind of a symbol of the people of Myanmar, rising up against the military, that, for 50 years, had a brutal dictatorship over the country and crushed the exact kind of political dissent that we are now seeing out in the streets.

HOLMES: Will Ripley in Hong Kong, following all of those events for us. Will, thank you so much.

Even though the U.K. was the first to identify a highly contagious variant that is spreading in Europe, the U.S. and beyond, its own outbreak appears to be shrinking. We will fill you in and tell you why.

Also, Australia taking drastic action after an outbreak in Victoria. What it means for anyone planning to travel to that state. We will be right back.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[03:15:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

HOLMES: Across Europe, pandemic responses are vastly different from country to country. Let's fill you in.

France has been able to avoid a third national lockdown. Now the country's health authority is recommending those who have already been infected with the virus only need a single dose of vaccine, saying they have already developed a level of immunity.

Italy says it is extending its travel ban between regions by another week until February 25th. Also, some areas are going to be tightening their restrictions. Museums will have to close, and restaurants and bars will only open for takeout.

To Germany, a national lockdown has been extended until March 7th at least. It is also planning to enforce a ban on travelers from the Czech Republic and part of Austria on Sunday to try to stop the variants from spreading.

Meanwhile, some encouraging news in the United Kingdom. The country's Department of Health and Social Care says the virus reproduction number there has now fallen to between 0.7 and 0.9. Now that is a great sign whenever the value is less than one.

CNN's Phil Black joins me now live from London.

It seems a lockdown measure is having an effect.

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Michael, it is encouraging. It is positive news. But the advice here is interpret this with caution, because, as you touched on, for the first time in a long time that crucial R number for the first time since July 2020, has dropped below one.

That means the epidemic in the U.K. is shrinking. There are fewer new cases and that is a trend that is continuing, day by day. What it means is the current strict lockdown is having an effect. It's driving down transmission.

But the warning is that the prevalence in terms of the virus in the community, it's still very high, it's circulating widely. So on the one hand, while numbers have come down a lot by comparison, daily cases announced yesterday, 15,000 new cases compared to the peak of this wave around the start of July, where you were exceeding 60,000 a day. That's a big difference.

But it is still too high according to the government, the government's scientific advisers. Hospital admissions are still too high as well, at around 25,000. And what it means is there still are too many people dying every day. More than 700 yesterday.

So, there is still a long way to go. That is why there is that caution about interpreting this news. However, it is hoped there will be a boost in helping to slow down the virus further through the vaccination program, which is rolling out here widely and rapidly.

And it is hoped that there will soon be a noticeable impact on transmission and case numbers, particularly as that program, looks set to hit a really important first big goal, getting the first dose to around 15 million of the U.K.'s most vulnerable people, including everyone aged over 70.

Those demographics make up the bulk of those who are at risk of dying should they contract the coronavirus. So, it would be a big step and the government is set to hit that target within the next day or so.

[03:20:00]

HOLMES: All right. Good to see you, Phil. Thanks for the reporting. Phil Black in London.

Turning to the COVID response in Australia, where flights to the state of Victoria have been suspended. This follows an outbreak linked to hotel quarantines, which has led to a 5-day hard lockdown in the state. Angus Watson is in Sydney for us.

It just shows how serious Australia is about keeping COVID under control. It has only been just over a dozen cases but some pretty drastic measures.

ANGUS WATSON, CNN PRODUCER: They are very drastic measures, Michael. We've had just one new case and some good news announced on Saturday from testing done on Friday.

So, the total of people that are connected to this hotel quarantine, clusters now at 14. So, 14 cases is what it takes for the Victorian government to plunge the entire state of 6 million people into lockdown through Thursday.

That means people are told not to leave their homes unless it is absolutely necessary. Schools are closed. Businesses are closed. Masks are compulsory. Further to that, flights into Melbourne have been suspended through Thursday.

That is bad news for some 40,000 Australians around the world who have already had trouble getting back into the country because of the limited number of spots available for Australians arriving back and entering into that hotel quarantine system.

It is tough but the Victorian government says it's what needs to happen. Here is what the premier said about that today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIEL ANDREWS, VICTORIA PREMIER: I know many people will be hurting today. This is not the position that Victorians want to be in. But I cannot have a situation where in 2 weeks' time, we look back and we wish we had taken these decisions now. I've gotten the advice to do it, I've done it, it's based on science.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATSON: And the backdrop to all of this, Michael, is the Australian Open, which continues to go ahead in Melbourne. Over 1,200 people from around the world, players, staff, officials have flown into Melbourne for the tournament; 100,000 people have gone to see it from the public over the first 5 days.

That stopped yesterday right through Thursday. There will be no more crowds. Players are going into a biosecurity bubble for their safety and for the safety of people around them. It was a quite strange scene on Friday night as Victoria was preparing

to go into lockdown at midnight. People were in the stadium to watch Novak Djokovic play against American Taylor Fritz in what turned into a five set rather classic match and halfway through the fourth set they were told get up, it's time to go home.

People did not want to do that. They started booing. The game had to be paused for 10 minutes while they were all ejected.

HOLMES: Yes, unbelievable. But Australia has kept a lid on this. So, they seem to know what they are doing. Angus Watson in Sydney, Australia. Appreciate it. Thank you.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has issued new guidelines for safely opening schools. They emphasize mitigation strategies, like mandatory mask wearing, handwashing and physical distancing, as much as you can in a school.

The guidance also recommending different reopening protocols, based on how much COVID transmission exists in their particular community.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: The CDC is not mandating that schools reopen. These recommendations simply provide schools a long- needed roadmap for how to do so safely under different levels of disease in the community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: But here is the thing. According to a CNN analysis, nearly 99 percent of all U.S. children live in areas where full-time, in-person learning is not recommended under those guidelines because local COVID transmission levels are too high.

But that could change. Check this out. The 7-day average of new infections in the U.S. has fallen below 100,000 for the first time in months. That metric has not been that low since November 3rd. Still a high number but heading into the right direction.

Over the past month, much of the world, of course, has been on a steady slope downwards in new coronavirus cases. The world dropped from 740,000 new cases a day at its peak to less than 400,000. The countries in green, we will show you now, they are down more than 10 percent this week compared to last week.

U.S. senators briefly put partisanship aside on Friday for an emotional tribute. Just ahead, how Congress unanimously honored a police officer for his bravery during the January 6th riot at the U.S. Capitol. We will be right back.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[03:25:00] (MUSIC PLAYING)

HOLMES: In a rare moment of unity on Friday on Capitol Hill, to honor a hero. The U.S. Senate did unanimously vote on Friday to award the Congressional Gold Medal to Capitol Police officer, Eugene Goodman. Goodman, you will remember, was hailed for guiding that violent mob away from the Senate chamber on January 6th.

Security footage also shows Goodman potentially saving Republican senator Mitt Romney from the rioters, telling him to run in the opposite direction.

Senate majority leader Chuck Schumer said that Goodman deserves the highest honor the U.S. Congress can bestow.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MAJORITY LEADER: In the weeks after the attack on January the 6th, the world learned about the incredible, incredible bravery of Officer Goodman on that fateful day. Officer Goodman is in the chamber tonight.

Officer Goodman, thank you.

HOLMES (voice-over): And Officer Goodman joined in the round of applause for the entire Capitol Police force as well. Congress could soon pass legislation honoring other officers who protected the Capitol during that riot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: I'm Michael Holmes. Thanks for spending part of your day with me. Follow me on Twitter and Instagram @HolmesCNN. Robyn Curnow will be here in 30 minutes.