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Interview with Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe; Interview with Sen. Chris Van Hollen (D-MD); Alabama Moves to Increase Vaccine Distribution. Aired 10:30-11a ET
Aired February 15, 2021 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[10:31:22]
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Well, less than one month after leaving office, the legal issues are piling up for former President Trump. These are the challenges that lie ahead for the former president. They range from allegations of election interference and incitement to defamation lawsuits.
TEXT: Trump's Legal Problems: Criminal: Manhattan D.A. probe of Trump finances; Atlanta D.A. probe of Trump election schemes; GA Secy. of State's probe of Trump calls; D.C. A.G. & D.C. U.S. Attorney possible incitement of violence charge. Civil: New York A.G. investigation into Trump Organization; E. Jean Carroll defamation lawsuit; Summer Zervos defamation lawsuit
GOLODRYGA: So let's talk about this with Harvard constitutional law professor Laurence Tribe. He advised Congress on impeachment, and Congressman Jamie Raskin, the lead impeachment manager, was his constitutional law student -- we'll ask him how he did. But he is also the coauthor of the book, "To End A Presidency: The Power of Impeachment."
Thank you so much for joining us, Laurence, really appreciate it. Let me get your thoughts on how your student handled this.
LAURENCE TRIBE, PROFESSOR OF CONSTITUTIONAL LAW, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Well, first of all, thanks for having me, Bianna. I think that Jamie Raskin did a brilliant, masterful job even if you set aside the tragic circumstances under which he was operating, given what happened in his family, it was an astonishing performance. No one in the world could have done better.
He established clearly that Donald J. Trump incited an insurrection, gathered the mob, inflamed the mob, aimed it at the Capitol and, as part and parcel of a long period of efforts to undo a free and fair election, committed the greatest impeachable offense in American history. No one can doubt that Raskin and the House managers did a brilliant job of establishing that.
GOLODRYGA: Yes, and also having to be able to do that while still mourning the loss of your son. I think people from both parties -- TRIBE: Right.
GOLODRYGA: -- commend him for his dedication to what he did, obviously, and our thoughts are with his family.
But let's move on to post-impeachment because you tweeted, over the weekend, that the Senate shamefully let Trump off a (ph) hypocritical technicality. Senator Mitch McConnell had this to say in response.
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SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): We have a criminal justice system in this country, we have civil litigation. And former presidents are not immune from being accountable by either one.
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GOLODRYGA: So given all of the legal woes facing President Trump, was this Mitch McConnell's way of punting to the courts?
TRIBE: Well, in a way. And one can thank him for, in effect, giving a signal to the courts that based on what we already know -- and we will certainly know more as investigations proceed. Given what we know, there is a world of legal trouble for the president. But that's no excuse for not using the impeachment power to protect the country from any future political office-holding by this president, that's critical.
And the fact that the trial was delayed to the point where the president was no longer president is all Mitch McConnell's fault because Nancy Pelosi and the managers were ready to conduct a four-day trial before the inauguration. It was McConnell who said, I'm sorry, I'm not going to reconvene the Senate. So the legal technicality was really a form of hypocrisy on stilts.
GOLODRYGA: Right, he was the one who decided that we should wait for this, right? And put it off. My perspective is that he cares about one thing, and that is being his party's leader. And clearly he didn't think that he had enough votes within his caucus, not only to start the trial while the president was still in office, but obviously to get a conviction as well.
But let's move on to some of the other legal woes that this president, former president is facing. We've got two investigations in Georgia, and the Fulton County district attorney is now looking into Trump's efforts to subvert that election, while the Georgia secretary of state has opened its own probe into that infamous phone call, where the president called on Brad Raffensperger to find the votes, laying out specific numbers of votes that he would actually need to win.
[10:35:16]
TRIBE: Right.
GOLODRYGA: How do you prove criminality here? TRIBE: Well, you've almost summarized it. The fact that the president
threatened to see the secretary of state of Georgia prosecuted unless he, quote, "found," unquote, the exact number of votes by which Trump had lost to Biden in Georgia plus one. It's not going to take rocket science jurors to see that that was a deliberate attempt to subvert the election in Georgia.
In each of the areas: in the Manhattan D.A.'s prosecutions for financial crimes, in the New York attorney general's prosecutions for financial crimes, in potential federal prosecutions under the federal law 18 U.S. Code Section 2283, which says anyone who engages in or incites or gives aid and comfort to an insurrection, is barred from ever holding office again, and can go to jail for 10 years.
There are a panoply of federal crimes, but none of them is an excuse for not using impeachment. If it were, we wouldn't have an impeachment power because it's always true that when a president gets out of office, these committed crimes in office, the immunity that the Department of Justice thinks the president has while serving absolutely evaporates. He turns into a potentially jailbird pumpkin, and that's exactly what can happen here.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. As an impeachment manager said, you don't get January free, right? That's not a freebie just because of technicalities.
TRIBE: Right. The January exception, it would --
GOLODRYGA: Yes.
TRIBE: -- endanger the country deeply. Because -- sorry --
GOLODRYGA: You don't teach that in constitutional law class, I am sure of that. Laurence Tribe, thank you so much.
TRIBE: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: Well, the push to pass coronavirus relief heats up, so can Democrats save a proposal to increase the minimum wage? I'll ask Senator Chris Van Hollen, coming up next.
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GOLODRYGA: Well now, with impeachment behind them, lawmakers are turning their focus to President Biden's $1.9 trillion COVID relief plan, and the clock is ticking. In less than a month, unemployment benefits will begin to lapse for millions of Americans. Joining me now is Maryland Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen.
Senator, thanks so much for joining us today. So the House has been working on COVID relief this entire time. Speaker Pelosi has set a deadline of March 14th to get a bill signed, that is of course when some unemployment benefits will expire. Is that a realistic timeline?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Well, Bianna, it's good to be with you. Yes, it is, because it's urgent that we get it done for exactly the reason you just mentioned, which is a lot of the current relief will expire in the middle of March, including the extended unemployment insurance benefits.
But we know that we won't have beaten the pandemic by the middle of March, so we are going to rush to get this done, to help deploy more vaccine, to help get kids back into school safely and to provide the other important benefits in this rescue package.
GOLODRYGA: Well, that is a relief to hear for millions of Americans that definitely need the aid. But President Biden has said that a minimum wage increase will likely not make it into the COVID relief bill for a number of reasons, but do you see room in getting one passed this year with Republican support?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, as you said, we -- the president included the minimum wage proposal, $15 an hour proposal, in this package. I'm going to continue to fight for it, but as of right now, you're right, we don't have the votes to get that done. If we can't get it done in this American Rescue package, I think it's essential that we enact the $15 minimum wage in the coming weeks.
And as you know, that would be phased in over time. You get to the $15 an hour minimum wage in the year 2025. But we have to lift the millions of Americans out of poverty, and that is one of the ways that we can do that.
GOLODRYGA: Of course, so many Republicans and even some Democrats are arguing that that will hurt small businesses. But we can talk about that when we approach that down the road.
House Democrats, meantime, are reportedly looking to bring back earmarks as a means to break the gridlock that we're seeing. And this sort of struck my attention because these don't sit well with voters. They haven't sat well with voters for years, sort of the Bridge to Nowhere comes to mind.
And in 2010, then-President Obama made a similar argument against them. Take a listen.
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BARACK OBAMA, THEN-PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In these challenging days, we've can't afford what are called earmarks. These are items inserted into spending bills by members of Congress without adequate review. Now, some of these earmarks support worthy projects in our local communities, but many others do not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: So I can understand that you may be able to entice certain members to vote for bills because it will serve their interests and their constituents' interests, but is bringing back earmarks a good idea in the long term?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, Bianna, I agree with President Obama's criticism in that clip you just played, that earmarks in the past were not subject to adequate review and public scrutiny. I look forward to seeing the proposal that's going to be brought forward here. As I understand it, they would require 100 percent transparency. In
other words, no more earmarks that are tucked in the middle of bills, like the Bridge to Nowhere, that nobody has a chance to scrutinize. That you would put these proposals in full public view, put them on the internet, that they would be limited to public purposes only, no private sector entities would be able to benefit from these public dollars.
[10:45:22]
So I look forward to the proposal that's coming forward. It would have to have these provisions that I'm talking about: 100 percent transparency to ensure 100 percent accountability with respect to projects.
GOLODRYGA: Yes.
VAN HOLLEN: I will say that without earmarks, as you know, Congress is essentially just exporting the constitutional power of the purse to the executive branch, and they then make decisions. So again, I agree with the criticism that President Obama leveled, and I look forward to the proposal to see if they can address those concerns.
GOLODRYGA: Yes, clearly detect the hesitancy there. Obviously you need to look at more detail.
Quickly, I want to ask you, in terms of moving forward following this impeachment, are you going to be able to work with those 43 Republicans who voted not to convict the president?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, Bianna, in my view they did totally violate their constitutional duty with respect to the trial and impeachment. At the same time, we have a national emergency on our hands. We have to defeat this pandemic, we have to deliver, you know, vital assistance to the American people. And if Republicans are willing to join us in that effort, we will work with those who want to join us.
I will say, as of right now, unfortunately, we don't have Republican partners in that effort. They've rejected President Biden's proposal, the $1.9 trillion proposal, even though it is popular across the country with Republicans and Democrats and independents. So I hope, you know, Republicans in the House and Senate will listen to their own voters around the country and join us in this effort. Because we are moving forward, because the priority is to make sure that we deliver this --
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GOLODRYGA: Yes. Well, if there is one thing to be optimistic about, and that is bipartisanship in your pitch for Officer Eugene Goodman and his merits to get the Congressional Gold Medal. I think many people would support that. Senator Chris Van Hollen, thank you so much --
VAN HOLLEN: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: -- we appreciate it.
And just ahead, overcoming obstacles to get shots into arms. Alabama, now ramping up COVID vaccines after a rough rollout.
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[10:52:07]
GOLODRYGA: When you look at the nation's vaccine rollout state by state, Alabama has struggled. The state is last in the country when it comes to vaccines administered per capita. Well, that may be changing. CNN's Miguel Marquez has more.
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EL WANDA PENN, VACCINE RECIPIENT: It's called survival.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): El Wanda and Rhonda Penn, twins, 66, and finally getting their first COVID-19 shots.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How was that?
E. PENN: It was easy.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): The hard part? Getting to this first-come, first-serve mass vaccination center in Montgomery.
E. PENN: It's been a tough year because it's just like you don't have a chance to deal with one dip before you've got another one.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): For weeks, the Penns have tried to make a vaccination appointment.
RHONDA PENN, VACCINE RECIPIENT: I have had some health issues, so I wanted to make sure I took it so it wouldn't interfere with my other problems.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Alabama has struggled to get shots into arms, often at the bottom of the CDC's list on how many vaccine doses each state gets, and how many they're getting into arms. That may be changing.
CHRISTINA THORNTON, DIRECTOR, MONTGOMERY CITY AND COUNTY EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT: We can go every day for a thousand doses. On Monday, we gave away 1,955. Yesterday, we did just over 1,500 and today, we're going again for 1,500.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Most of the vaccines at this site come from the state, hundreds more doses kicked in by Baptist Health.
MARQUEZ: How confident are you that the second shots will be there in three weeks, plus more first shots?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're confident, absolutely. We continue to order every opportunity we get, and we are confident that we will be able to do this again.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): In December, there were just 15, 1-5, vaccination locations across the state. Today, there are 355 and state health officials say nearly 900 have been approved, but they need more vaccine. The federal government, now pitching in with 14,000 doses going to 22 Walmarts statewide.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have some people in our rural counties, in our rural towns, that Walmart is their only access to be able to get this vaccine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mm, my friend.
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MARQUEZ (voice-over): Loretta (ph) Wimberley (ph), 88 and unstoppable. Her life dedicated to equal rights, she still works at Selma's historic First Baptist Church. Today, her focus? Getting friends, neighbors and parishioners vaccinated.
UNIDENFITIED FEMALE: This community in Selma is predominantly, you know, black. And then we are part of the black belt, which is predominantly black. And most of the people don't have the transportation to get to the large sites, you know, where they're setting up for them to get vaccine.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Wimberley (ph) got her first shot. Her friend Pearline? Still trying.
PEARLINE SEAY, WAITING FOR VACCINATION: I know I pray a lot, but it make you even pray more. With this going around, you don't know who has it.
[10:55:00]
MARQUEZ (voice-over): With the state's broadening eligibility to people over 65 and confidence growing in the safety of the vaccine --
BETSY STEWART, CHIEF SALES AND MARKETING OFFICER, MAIN STREET FAMILY CARE: We do have just those vaccines here in the freezer.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): -- locations in Selma and statewide, struggling to meet demand.
MARQUEZ: How much do you hear from people that they want the vaccine?
STEWART: Oh, thousands. We've had an interest form online that people could submit their information if they weren't yet eligible, and we have probably had 15 to 20,000 people submit interest forms.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Alabama, like everywhere, in need of more vaccine but moving in the right direction. Miguel Marquez, CNN, Montgomery.
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GOLODRYGA: And our thanks to Miguel Marquez for that.
And I want to thank you for joining me today. I'm Bianna Golodryga. NEWSROOM with Kate Bolduan starts right after the break.
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