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Airlines Push Back Against Virus Test Requirements; Sen. Lindsey Graham Changes His Tune On Trump & GOP; Trump Faces Multiple Legal Battles After Leaving Office; Eleven Senators Who Voted To Impeach Bill Clinton In '90s Voted To Acquit Trump In Second Impeachment; NY Governor Cuomo Speaks On Nursing Home Deaths. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired February 15, 2021 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: The CDC only recommending now that passengers get tested one to three days before the start of their trip. Then again, three to five days end of their trip. Again, just a recommendation.
We'll see if passengers traveling this weekend actually followed through with that.
It appears travelers are following through with another recommendation from the CDC. Frankly, just to not travel in general, and these new numbers show that. There are only about 45 percent of what they were a year ago -- Brianna?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Pete Muntean, thank you so much.
Right now, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo is speaking live as he faces more pressure over and alleged cover-up of deaths inside, or deaths, nursing home deaths I should say. Stand by. We are awaiting his response to calls from Democrats looking to strip his emergency powers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: The Trump presidency changed the Republican Party. Take Senator Lindsey Graham, for instance. Back in 2016, Graham tweeted, "If Trump is nominated" -- we, meaning Republicans - "will get destroyed."
[14:35:00]
Then fast-forward to yesterday, the Senator has a new attitude about the former president and the GOP.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): He's ready to move on and rebuild the Republican Party. He's excited about 2022. And I'm going to go down to talk with him next week, play a little golf in Florida. And I said, Mr. President, this MAGA movement needs to continue. We need to unite the party. Trump-plus is the way back in 2022.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: The Senator didn't stop there. He took it one step further.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAHAM: The biggest winner I think of this whole impeachment trial is Lara Trump. My dear friend, Richard Burr, who I like, just made Lara Trump almost a certain nominee for the Senate seat in North Carolina to replace him if she runs. And I will certainly be behind her because I think she represents the future of the Republican Party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Rusty Jacobs is a political reporter for WUNC North Carolina public radio with us now.
Thank you so much for being with us.
Lara Trump, what kind of reception could she get from North Carolina voters?
RUSTY JACOBS, POLITICAL REPORTER, WUNC, NORTH CAROLINA PUBLIC RADIO: I think implicit, or not even implicit, pretty clearly Lindsey Graham's statement that there's a broad swath of Republicans, voters who go to the polls for GOP candidates, still put a lot of value in the Trump brand.
Lara Trump would be a continuation. If President Trump, ex-President Trump can't find his way back into politics, perhaps a relative bearing the same name could.
A native of Wilmington, North Carolina, out there on the coast. Went to N.C. State University and has the Trump brand. That could give her a boost, a boost.
But there are Republicans, specifically former governor, former Congressman Mark Walker, who takes exception to that. That he was probably the first prominent Republican candidate to declare his candidacy or desire to run to replace Richard Burr.
KEILAR: So that -- OK, so that may be someone who she would potentially face.
I wonder, you know, when you think about the qualifications -
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Sorry. Go on.
JACOBS: No. That's it. You know, Mark Walker decided not to run for re-election to Congress in 2020. His district had been redrawn under court direction. It now favors Democrats.
But he saw his future as running for that 2022 seat, which, we should point out, Richard Burr said he would not run to get reelected to fill back in 2016 when he won re-election saying this would be his third and final term.
KEILAR: When you think, Rusty, about her qualifications. How, how would that shape up compared to who you would be used to seeing run for the Senate?
JACOBS: Mark Walker was a three-term congressman on the Democratic side.
Jeff Jackson is a state Senator. He's got a very good resume for a political candidate. He served in the Army in Afghanistan. He is now a National Guard judge advocate general lawyer.
Another candidate on the Democratic side, Erica Smith, has experience as a state Senator.
So you've got a lot of people with political experience, but there are many more people coming to the polls.
If anything, any indications, clear indications, from the 202 elections is a lot more people are going to the polls than have in the past.
And maybe having a lot of service, a long political record, is not necessarily the most important credential for a political candidate. In that case, benefits someone like Lara Trump.
KEILAR: And when we're talking about Senator Burr, he's facing censure, because he voted to convict President Trump in his second impeachment trial.
What is the message there for future political players in the state who, you know, maybe they aren't -- maybe they don't think, they don't want kind of Trump to be the future of the Republican Party?
Is this something that sends a message to them? And certainly from how they contact themselves in terms of voting.
JACOBS: I mean, certainly a chilling effect on anybody who wants to vote their conscience, if it leads then to conclude ex-President Trump was responsible for inciting the insurrection on January 6th.
You know, Richard Burr had voted to block impeachment from proceeding. That's when there was a vote on constitutional grounds. Whether constitutional to impeach someone who's no longer in office.
That being said, once that issue was removed, he decided to sit as an impartial juror and said the evidence was compelling that President Trump, then President Trump, played a role in inciting that riot.
On the other hand, Thom Tillis, just won re-election to the U.S. Senate representing North Carolina, made the same vote on constitutionality, and still decided to wait, saying the issue was constitutional. Hasn't been willing to say.
[14:40:01]
He's made comments that indicate he believes there might be some responsibility on the president's part, but that impeachment wasn't the proper forum to look at that.
So maybe it's not needing to run for re-election that gives people like Richard Burr the courage to vote their conscience.
KEILAR: A very good observation, indeed.
Rusty Jacobs, thanks for being with us.
JACOBS: You're welcome.
KEILAR: Next, President Trump's legal battles are far from over, despite his acquittal in the Senate. We will break down those legal battle, including a Supreme Court ruling that could determine whether his tax returns are ever released.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:06]
KEILAR: The second impeachment trial of former President Donald Trump may be over but the next round of legal battles for Trump is just beginning. He faces criminal investigations that could not only threaten his financial well-being but serve up jail time.
Much is hanging on a pending Supreme Court decision over whether New York prosecutors can get their hands on Trump's tax returns.
CNN's Kara Scannell is tracking the legal threats for us.
Kara, give us the latest.
KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: Brianna, you mentioned, most advanced of the investigations is the one brought by the Manhattan district attorney's office looking into whether the former president and his company violated any state laws, having to do along with finances, whether insurance fraud or possible tax fraud.
The investigation was delayed because of a fight over the grand jury subpoena. That case brought to the Supreme Court. Put before the Supreme Court in October.
There's no ruling yet whether the court will continue to pause that subpoena or allow it to be enforced. But that subpoena is critical to the investigation, sources tell CNN.
That's not the only one, though. Just last week, in Atlanta, the Fulton County district attorney announced they are investigating the former president and his efforts to overturn the vote in Georgia.
The focus, the phone call where the president called Georgia's secretary of state and pressed him to find the votes and just enough votes to swing it in his favor. There's also the secretary of state there also investigating. That
could turn criminal as well.
In addition, the Justice Department and D.C. attorney general who were investigating the insurrection.
Sources told CNN that the president's privately concerned he could get charged in that and the top official at the Justice Department handling the investigation said they are looking at all actors.
That's not all. There's also a host of civil investigations and lawsuits that the former president is also facing.
Again, in New York, the New York attorney general is investigating his finances. That is also a broadened investigation that could potentially turn criminal and two defamation lawsuits brought by women accused him of sexual assault.
Those lawsuits delayed through the court system in large part because the president, former president, was in office. He no longer he has that protection. These cases could start to move forward.
One of those women is trying to get a deposition of the former president and a sample of his DNA.
His legal issues are far from over. The president, former president, excuse me, Donald Trump, has denied all wrongdoing in these cases. And the Trump Organization said they complied with the law.
But this is going to be something that will preoccupy the former president, Brianna, for quite a while.
KEILAR: Yes. That is quite the list, Kara. It's like a clown-car list.
Kara Scannell, thank you so much for taking us through that. Appreciate it.
There have been four impeachments in American history. The standards changed dramatically over time.
And 11 Senators who voted to impeach former President Bill Clinton in the '90s also voted to acquit Donald Trump on Saturday. Half in the House of Representatives back then.
And just a little history reminder, Clinton was impeached for lying under oath and for obstruction of justice.
Those 11 Senators apparently making, in their votes, a calculation that a president having an affair with an intern and lying about it was impeachable behavior, but that inciting a deadly insurrection was not. Clinton, of course, was also acquitted in his Senate trial.
Joining me now, CNN's political director, David Chalian. And with us also CNN contributor, John Dean, who served White House counsel during the Nixon administration. John, an interesting way to think about it. Certainly, I think, you
know, when someone is more likely to see wrong with someone who is not in their party.
But I wonder what your reaction is to these lawmakers who did vote to convict Bill Clinton, but voted to acquit Donald Trump?
JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it's -- it's a pretty flimsy flip- flop, if you will. Given lying about sexual activity in the Oval Office versus national security of the first dimension and an insurrection.
So it struck me last night. I put together a tweet on this. And I could remember Graham being in one of the managers. I saw him on the Senate floor. Got him in the wrong cue.
But we was along with Roy Blunt and Portman and Toomey and Morgan and Weicker, all in the House. No problem at all starting an impeachment proceeding against Clinton.
In the Senate, you had McConnell, Grassley, Inhofe and Shelby, who all voted to convict him. Although, all voted to acquit Mr. Trump.
[14:50:00]
It doesn't mix. It just doesn't work. They might have a mental disengagement they're capable of that most people are not.
KEILAR: I wonder, David, as you observe, these are two decisions lawmakers made at two different points in time. How do you make sense of this?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICS DIRECTOR: I think you have to look at what they said, how they sort of make sense.
And I agree with John. I don't think it really makes a ton of sense.
But because they are using this copout and loophole of this notion that they didn't think the trial of Donald Trump there time around was constitutional because he had left office, they would immediately say, well, that was a different moment with Clinton because they were, in their minds, properly trying an impeached president who was still serving.
Now, again, I think mitch McConnell made -- made very clear in his speech on Saturday that that's all that constitutional argument is, an excuse, because he clearly stated that he believes Donald Trump was guilty on the facts.
And that the only reason he voted to acquit was this notion that he didn't think the Senate should be holding a rile.
KEILAR: Let's listen to part of that. The Senate minority leader, mitch McConnell, put a big emphasis on Trump not coming out of this clean.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): President Trump is still liable for everything he did while he was in office as an ordinary citizen unless the statute of limitations has returns still liable for everything he did while he was in office. Didn't get away with anything yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: And, John, I don't know if you heard our reporter, Kara Scannell, walking through the list. Each time it seemed like it might come to an end, there was some other kind of legal woe that Donald Trump is going to be face. It's a very long list.
How likely is a prosecution?
DEAN: Well, as we heard several in the Senate have now issued statements where they think he should be held criminally responsible, and this includes Republicans. Even Chuck Grassley issued a long statement that said --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: John, I'm so sorry. I'll have you pause.
We need to listen in now to Governor Andrew Cuomo.
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): Let me -- I want to clarify facts on the nursing homes which has been an ongoing discussion.
New York, as everybody knows, was ground zero for COVID and nursing homes were and still are ground zero for COVID, and losing a loved one is very, very painful. Losing a loved one in a nursing home during this situation was extraordinarily painful.
There's with no visitation. You couldn't be with the person. You couldn't talk to the person. It was hard to get them on the phone. People in nursing homes are not as conversant and fascicle on Zoom and Facetime. It doesn't work that way.
I understand fully how difficult it has been. And I want to make sure people have all the facts, the facts, the information.
This past year, there's a toxic political environment, and everything gets politicized, and there's political spin and then there are facts, two very different things. And I just want to be sure that people have facts.
Last August, the Department of Justice sent a letter to Democratic governors, four of them, New York, New Jersey, Michigan and Pennsylvania asking for public information on nursing homes.
The New York State legislature also sent a letter asking for information on nursing homes. We paused the state legislator's request while we were finishing the DOJ request.
We told both Houses, the assembly and the Senate, that we had DOJ requests for information and we were prioritizing that. We did give the DOJ request precedence, and we told both Houses that. The August request we replied to fully.
Separately, DOH got a DOJ letter signed by Jeffrey Clark, the attorney in October, are which we learned about from the "New York Post." We didn't even get the letter. "The Post" called and told us about a letter.
And that request of information on an investigation on private nursing homes.
[14:55:05]
And we have been voluntarily producing information for that on a rolling basis, as recently as January 8th as offered by DOJ, the rolling basis production.
The second, we paused the state legislature's request. We paused the state legislature's request. We voluntarily complied with the DOJ request for information. Two very different things.
The New York State DOH has always fully and publicly reporting all COVID deaths in nursing homes and hospitals. They have always been fully reported.
Nursing homes had the most vulnerable population. We know that. The nationwide 36 percent of the deaths are in nursing homes. You know what percent of the population are people in nursing homes? One percent, 1 percent had 36 percent of the deaths.
New York is 34 in nursing home deaths as a percentage of total deaths, 34 out of 50 states. New York is one of only seven states that counts what's called presumed fatalities in nursing homes, where the nursing home presumed the cause of death was COVID.
To give you an example, New York State, 13,000 nursing home-related deaths. That's 30 percent of total deaths. Pennsylvania had 11,900. That's 52 percent of their total deaths were in nursing homes.
Florida, 34 percent of total deaths in nursing homes. Massachusetts, 54 percent of total deaths. If you look at the entire country and you look at the percentage of deaths in nursing homes, New York is number 34. You have some states that up to 73 percent of the people who died in nursing homes.
COVID preys on senior citizens, older people, weaker people. We've always known that. That is a fact.
Now, there's much distortion around what's called Department of Health memo on March 25th, and I want to make sure that we get the facts on this.
On March 13th, Federal Center for Medicaid and Medicaid Services, what they call CMS, and on March 23rd, the Centers for Disease Control, CDC, put out guidance sending people from hospitals back to nursing homes. New York State DOH followed that guidance. And 12 other states at least followed that guidance.
The CDC's reasoning at that time, residents who were leaving the hospitals were not likely to be contagious at that time, the viral load is so low, that you're not contagious.
And they were going to be what's called cohort, cared for in anywhere that are separate for people under the right precautions. Patients, particularly senior citizens should not remain in hospitals longer than necessary because they can get a secondary infection.
That's true all across the board. Especially with seniors. They try to get the procedures done and try to get people out of the hospital before they can come up with a secondary infection that's problematic.
The patients were not sent to nursing homes. The nursing home had to agree that they could care for this person.
That is a matter of law. They cannot accept a patient who they are not prepared to care for properly, staff, PPE, ability to cohort. That is in the law. If they don't do that, they violate the law.
[14:59:57]
At the time, remember what was going on in March. The experts were projecting that our problem and our critical need was hospital capacity.
We sat here every day with the hospitalization chart. We were looking at up to 140,000 people hospitalized.
