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FBI Oath Keepers Investigation Continues; Nursing Home Employees Reluctant to Take Vaccine; State Republican Parties Move to Censure Over Impeachment Vote. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired February 16, 2021 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:33:35]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the FBI, as you know, is currently investigating the insurrection at the Capitol. They're particularly looking at the role of the Oath Keepers. That is an anti-government extremist militia group, and their role in all of it is becoming a bit more clear. More than 200 members have been charged in the attack, including some members of that group.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: That has not, however, deterred one of the group's leaders from continuing to peddle the big lie that the election was stolen. It's not true. In fact, as CNN's Sara Sidner reports, he's become even more vocal.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Members of the extremist anti-government Oath Keepers --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Treason! Treason!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Treason! Treason!

SIDNER (voice-over): -- were a part of this siege.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump!

SIDNER (voice-over): They are seen in combat gear, brazenly bragging about breaching the Capitol.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Overran the Capitol.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're in the (INAUDIBLE) Capitol.

SIDNER (voice-over): The extremist paramilitary group is known for recruiting current and former members of the military and law enforcement. It has emerged as one of the groups that is a major focus of federal investigators.

The FBI is trying to hunt down the suspects in these photos, some of whom are wearing Oath Keeper gear.

These three alleged Oath Keepers and military veterans -- Jessica Watkins, Donovan Crowl, and Thomas Caldwell -- were the first to face significant conspiracy charges related to the Capitol attack.

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): The leader of a militia group known as the Oath Keepers received messages while he was at the Capitol.

[10:35:03]

SIDNER (voice-over): The federal claims against the accused Oath Keepers even mentioned during the second impeachment trial against former President Donald Trump.

SWALWELL: The leader was given directions to where representatives were thought to be sheltering, and instructions to, quote, "turn on gas, seal them in."

SIDNER (voice-over): An accused leader of the group that day, Caldwell, denies any involvement with the Oath Keepers. His attorney claims the FBI has shown no evidence of him inside the Capitol. In court papers, his lawyer says he worked for the FBI and has held a top security clearance since 1979.

But this is also Caldwell, talking about members of Congress on January 6th.

THOMAS CALDWELL, CHARGED IN CAPITOL RIOT: Every single (INAUDIBLE) in there is a traitor. Every single one.

SIDNER (voice-over): A source with inside knowledge of how the Oath Keepers operate told CNN about a dozen members were in federal law enforcement, but purposely kept off the group's official membership database.

SIDNER: Would it be a surprise that someone who was in federal law enforcement was a member of the Oath Keepers?

ALEX FRIEDFELD, INVESTIGATIVE RESEARCHER, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE: Unfortunately not, right? For years, Oath Keepers have been targeting, you know, military and law enforcement personnel especially at the federal level with their messaging recruitment (ph).

SIDNER (voice-over): Federal prosecutors say just days before the attack, Caldwell discussed with another extremist bringing weapons across the Potomac via boat.

"We could have our Quick Response Team with the heavy weapons standing by... load them and ferry them across the river to our waiting arms."

Federal agents say he also sent messages to accused Oath Keepers Crowl and Watkins. In this one, to Crowl, he says, "I will probably do pre- strike on the 5th... maybe can do some night hunting." And then mentions when his Oath Keeper friends from North Carolina will show up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want Trump!

SIDNER (voice-over): In video from January 6th, it appears the three may not have been acting alone. Watkins is seen with others marching towards the Capitol. The FBI said she was part of a group of eight to 10 people all wearing paramilitary gear and Oath Keeper paraphernalia, signifying their affiliation with the conspiracy-fueled anti- government group.

Here she is gain, behind the guy with the eye patch, the leader and founder of the Oath Keepers Stewart Rhodes in the November Trump rally in D.C.

Two months later, Rhodes is seen outside the Capitol during the attack. He has not been charged with any crime. He was clear on his Oath Keepers mission in D.C.

STEWART RHODES, LEADER AND FOUNDER, OATH KEEPERS: Our mission there is, as we stated on -- in our call to action to go to D.C., it's what (ph) we (ph) always do: protect people, protect venues, protect events. That's it. You know, do VIP escorts.

SIDNER (voice-over): And some did, appearing to stand guard with Trump adviser Roger Stone. This is Oath Keeper Roberto Minuta of New Jersey, according to several people who know him.

Later that day, Minuta is seen yelling at police outside the Capitol. Soon after, a man wearing the same goggles and clothing is seen breaching the Capitol.

Despite the mounting evidence and manhunt for some of his Oath Keepers, this is Rhodes, 24 days after the siege, talking about the current government.

RHODES: So there's going to be resistance. The only question is, is what will be the spark.

SIDNER (voice-over): Rhodes is still spewing the lie that the election was stolen, and egging on his followers to act.

RHODES: You've got to declare this regime to be illegitimate, you've got to declare everything comes out of King Biden's mouth as illegitimate and null and void from inception because he is not a legitimate president.

FRIEDFELD: He is continuing to use violent rhetoric and spread conspiracies that frame, you know, today's events in a way that necessitate action on the part of his followers.

SIDNER (voice-over): Though Rhodes says it was a mistake for people to actually go inside the Capitol that day --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep pushing!

SIDNER (voice-over): -- even in light of the insurrection, his rhetoric has not changed. RHODES: They have plans for us that they know we'll rebel against,

and they're afraid because there are 365 million of us, we outnumber them vastly, and we're armed, we're well armed. So they have a problem, and so they're afraid.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER (on-camera): Now, we should mention that we reached out to Roberto Minuta, the guy that you saw there, appearing to guard Roger Stone. Someone at his business said that he had no comment.

We also tried to reach out to Jessica Watkins and Donovan Crowl, but so far they don't have attorneys that are representing them and they are currently in jail on conspiracy charges and more -- Poppy and Jim.

HARLOW: Sara Sidner, what a piece, thank you --

SCIUTTO: Great piece, great.

HARLOW: -- very much, yes, for all of that. You continue to do invaluable work for all of us, so thanks for that, Sara.

SIDNER: Thank you.

[10:39:40]

HARLOW: We'll be right back.

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SCIUTTO: The CDC says that hesitancy towards the COVID-19 vaccine is declining. That's good news. But in nursing homes nationwide, many employees who were prioritized first for vaccinations and who are at great risk themselves remain reluctant.

HARLOW: That's right. Data showed during the first month of the vaccine rollout, just about 38 percent of nursing home staff received vaccinations. With us now is Dr. Asif Merchant, he's chief of Geriatrics and Extended Care at Newton-Wellesley Hospital, has spent almost two decades working in nursing homes.

Also you're an adviser to the governor of Massachusetts on the COVID vaccination. So it's really good to have you, Dr. Merchant.

ASIF MERCHANT, CHIEF OF GERIATRICS AND EXTENDED CARE, NEWTON-WELLESLEY HOSPITAL: Thank you, my pleasure.

HARLOW: I wonder why you think this hesitancy? Because you're the medical director at four different major long-term care facilities across the state of Massachusetts. Is that what you're seeing? You know, about half of folks that work there don't want to take the vaccine? And if so, why?

[10:45:02]

MERCHANT: Yes, I think that's what my experience has been. I've been in long-term care for, you know, over two decades now, and I broadly classify them into groups, you know, which will say yes, I want to take the vaccine, I want it right now; the second group, saying I don't want to be the first one to take the vaccine; and the third group is like, I'm never going to take the vaccine. So those are the three groups that I've been seeing. The top issue really is mistrust of the vaccine, and mistrust of the system.

SCIUTTO: So what -- I wonder, the irony here, right? Of course is that many of these workers, one, they're at greater risk, particularly people of color, right? I mean, they are suffering disproportionately from this pandemic, from COVID-19, and yet have greater hesitancy. So what is the best way to combat that, to get through those fears?

MERCHANT: Right. And the amount of death and disease that we've seen in nursing homes, you would think that everybody would want to take the vaccine as soon as possible.

The major issues with people of color are, you know, there is a history of experimentation with certain groups, minority groups in the United States, and that case (ph) would (ph) be a factor. Also, you know, nursing homes are often less thought about. And this time, you know, we are in the top group to get the vaccination, so there is a little bit of skepticism.

But there is also a lot of misinformation, false information. Also people are concerned about how can a vaccine be developed so quickly, and they don't really understand the science behind it, they don't really understand that it is -- the work that has been done over the last decade or so that has enabled us to, you know, come up with a working vaccine and highly effective vaccines, I should say, this quickly.

SCIUTTO: Yes, yes.

HARLOW: I mean, given how vulnerable the populations within these long-term care facilities, these nursing homes, are, do you -- would it be your advice to the governor, given that you're advising Governor Baker to -- to mandate them for employees?

MERCHANT: That would be one way of doing it, you know, a mandate. But since these vaccines are not FDA-approved, they are under what's called an EUA, an emergency use approval, I'm not sure, you know, I'll leave it up to the lawmakers to decide on that, but --

HARLOW: But let's be really clear for people, because I worry people listening to you and hearing they're not FDA-approved might think that means they're any less safe. And that's not what that means, right?

MERCHANT: That's not what it means, no. So you know, the EUA is done for, you know, vaccines or medications that really have no other alternatives. And they go through the same rigorous standards of safety and efficacy trials, reviewing all the data before the vaccine is approved.

So for example, I've taken both shots of the vaccine, and I highly encourage everybody else to do the same. HARLOW: Yes, we're waiting, Jim and I are waiting. I mean, it's --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: -- a real blessing for people who can get it, and frontline workers like you should be the first. Thank you, Dr. Merchant.

MERCHANT: My pleasure, thank you so much.

[10:48:11]

HARLOW: Well, up next, Republican Senator Richard Burr is not backing down after his own North Carolina Republican Party censured him for his vote to convict the president. You'll hear more of what he said, next.

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HARLOW: Welcome back. So the political divide within the Republican Party seems, Jim, to be growing by the day.

SCIUTTO: It's very public. Republican Parties in states around the country, they're voting to censure senators who voted to convict former President Trump, though not all of them. CNN chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju is on the Hill.

So North Carolina Senator Burr, he's the latest to be censured. Poppy spoke to the Utah Republican Party, they are not censuring Mitt Romney for his vote. What's happening here, what can you tell us?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, really, there's very little they can do other than that censure resolution that we're expecting in several of these state parties, particularly for the senators. Most of these senators who voted to convict Donald Trump are not up for re-election next year, only Lisa Murkowski is.

And the censure resolution is essentially a slap on the wrist, saying that the party does not agree with the decision they've (ph) made here, and a sign also that the state parties in particular have a lot of Donald Trump loyalists and they will express their opposition to what these votes have -- that occurred over the weekend.

Yes, you mentioned Richard Burr; also Bill Cassidy, Louisiana Republican senator, faced a censure resolution from his own state party as well, immediately after his vote.

You see Congresswoman Liz Cheney, she voted to impeach Donald Trump, one of 10 House Republicans to do so. She faced a censure resolution from Wyoming Republicans, as did Tom Rice, a South Carolina Republican, for his vote for impeachment. Senator Ben Sasse has not been formally censured yet, but we are expecting that to happen. There's threats of that happening.

There are also threats of it happening in Pennsylvania for Pat Toomey, who voted to convict Donald Trump. Also Susan Collins of Maine, the centrist Republican from -- who just won her re-election bid. There's some talk in Maine to do just something similar.

But what we're hearing from virtually all these members -- many of whom I've talked to, many of them who have put out public statements -- they are standing by their vote despite the backlash they have suffered back home.

This is from Richard Burr over the weekend, following his censure resolution. He said, "It is truly a sad day for North Carolina Republicans. My party's leadership has chosen loyalty to one man over the core principles of the Republican Party and the founders of our great nation."

So as we're seeing here in the aftermath of this vote, still, backlash from these members who defied Donald Trump but these members pushing back -- guys.

[10:55:10]

SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, now Mitch McConnell, threatening to get involved in those primary races to kind of push back against some of this more far right-wing part of the party. We'll see. Manu Raju on the Hill, thanks very much.

RAJU: Thanks.

HARLOW: Thank you, Manu.

And thanks to all of you for joining us today, we'll see you tomorrow morning. I'm Poppy Harlow.

SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto. NEWSROOM with Kate Bolduan starts right after a short break.

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