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Dem Rep. Bennie Thompson, NAACP Sue Trump & Giuliani for Conspiracy Related to Capitol Insurrection; CNN Holds First Presidential Town Hall with Joe Biden at 9PM ET; New York Governor Accepts Some Blame for Nursing Home Scandal, Denies Cover-Up. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired February 16, 2021 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:14]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. Thanks so much for joining us this hour.

Just filed, the first civil lawsuit targeting Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani over the violent riot on the Capitol January 6th. Specifically, this federal lawsuit accuses the former president and his personal attorney of conspiring with the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers to incite the insurrection.

The case is being brought by Congressman Bennie Thompson of Mississippi and it is backed by the NAACP. Thompson is a Democratic chair of the House Homeland Security Committee. So despite being acquitted this weekend for inciting the violence, Donald Trump is still facing fallout.

This comes as a moment that the new president, Joe Biden, is trying to turn the focus away from the former president and on to his agenda, especially his efforts to tackle the health and economic crises brought on by the pandemic.

President Biden is meeting with voters today during his first trip as president. He's headed to Wisconsin where he's taking part in his first presidential town hall in Milwaukee hosted by CNN and it begins tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.

We're going to have much more on the town hall. Much more on that in just a moment. But, first, this new lawsuit and the legal troubles now for Donald Trump.

Joining me right now is CNN's Jessica Schneider.

Jessica, what's the congressman and the NAACP accusing the president of here?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, they're accusing him and Rudy Giuliani of conspiracy. They're suing the former president along with Rudy Giuliani, accusing them of conspiring with far right groups to incite this insurrection at the U.S. Capitol and this lawsuit really traces Trump's words and actions in the months leading up to the insurrection to make that conspiracy case.

So here is what is in the lawsuit. Quoting now, the insurrection at the Capitol was a direct intended and foreseeable result of the defendants' unlawful conspiracy. It was instigated, according to a common plan that the defendants pursued since the election held November 2020, culminating in an assembly dominated as the "Save America" rally during which defendants Trump and Giuliani incited the crowd of thousands to descend upon the Capitol.

So this lawsuit really cites Trump's and Giuliani's rhetoric. At one point in the lawsuit, it also accuses former President Trump of delaying his speech on the ellipse so members of the Proud Boys could advance to the Capitol and better plot their attack. Now this is a claim that is not backed up by any evidence in the lawsuit. So, we'll see how it precedes here, but all of this is part of the broader conspiracy claim.

This lawsuit is also very significant, not only because it is seeking monetary damages from Trump and Giuliani, but if this case moves forward, it could subject the president and others to depositions and disclosure of information that could expose more details on what exactly Trump knew about the attack before and after as it was unfolding.

Also notable here is the fact that Chairman Bennie Thompson, the Democrat in Congress, he's basing his claim on a post civil war era law that is really never been used like this before. This is a law known as the KKK Act and it's designed -- it was designed to stop the Ku Klux Klan from interfering with federal officers in post-Civil War South. But here, Bennie Thompson is alleging that Trump and Giuliani worked in concert and in conspiracy with the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers to incite this violence at Capitol and, Kate, to stop Congress from certifying the election results really interfering.

So it's a high bar to meet here. We reached out to attorneys for for former President Trump as well as Giuliani. I am also told this morning that even though Congressman Bennie Thompson is suing in his personal capacity, that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has, in fact, been briefed on this lawsuit and that other members of Congress are expected to join it -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thanks so much. Really appreciate it, Jessica.

Joining me now for more on this CNN legal analyst Anne Milgram. She's a former New Jersey attorney General.

Anne, what do you think of this lawsuit as Jessica just laid it out really well?

ANNE MILGRAM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's fascinating but it is one of many civil lawsuits that we will see that gets brought against former President Trump. What is really interesting is they're using the statute from 1871 that's really almost barely been used and they're using it to say that this was foreseeable and what the president and Giuliani did was they took a series of actions that were intended really to interfere with Congress and its work and to incite a riot.

So, it is a really interesting lawsuit, also in part because Bennie Thompson, he's a victim. He was at the Capitol on January 6th and as were other members of Congress. So they're basically saying former President Trump interfered with their ability to do their duty.

And so I think, you know, exactly what Jessica just said, the question is, will there be depositions?

[11:05:04]

There are a lot of questions about what Donald Trump did on January 6th after the riot started. And so, after, you know, individuals had sieged the Capitol. So I think this potentially could be a way that a lot of additional information and evidence gets brought to light.

BOLDUAN: It is very interesting because often the question of standing comes into play when a member of Congress brings a lawsuit and this is a very different situation as you lay out. Talk to me about what this means in the short-term and long-term for Trump and Giuliani? What does it mean if they're going to be subject to deposition? What does it mean if they could be subject to discovery?

MILGRAM: So I think the first question and the first legal defense will be Donald Trump will walk in and say and I was acting in my official capacity as president and what the lawsuit does is say, no you weren't. It already started to take that on and say that this is not what the president of the United States would do. This is contrary to your oath and look at all of the words and statements that both you and Rudy Giuliani made that were essentially encouraging and encouraging violence or at least an end to the electors being able certify the election, the valid election.

So that's a piece of this. That would be a legal fight. But the other piece, and what is really fascinating, is that to even sort of answer those questions, some discovery will be needed, I think. That you'll start to have questions about what did Donald Trump do? Again, he was both president and running for re-election so he's sort of wearing two hats, and I think being in a deposition means Donald Trump needs to hire lawyers, Rudy Giuliani needs to hire lawyers and this could go on for years as this sort of legal process plays out.

So whether or not their ultimately held accountable, whether there is a finding under the lawsuit, we don't know that. But we do know that as of today, they're now facing a significant legal action against them that they'll have to prepare for.

BOLDUAN: Look, and I have to say, it reminded me when I heard of civil lawsuit coming of Mitch McConnell from the Senate floor after the acquittal vote and he not only talked about, and I wrote it down, we have a criminal justice system in this country, we have civil litigation, he also said. And former presidents are not immune from being accountable by other one.

It's almost like he foreshadowed or gave Bennie Thompson the idea to make this move at this moment. Anne, thanks so much. I appreciate it.

So, while at least one House Democrat is now suing Donald Trump over January 6th, one Republican, Senator Ron Johnson, he's now suggesting that it wasn't nearly as serious as people think.

Joining me now on this is CNN's Jessica Dean.

So, Jessica, despite all of us having eyes and ears and very clearly knowing what happened that day. What exactly is Senator Johnson saying?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, it's pretty remarkable, considering to your point, we have video. We also have police reports from that day. So we have a lot of evidence that disputes very much what Senator Ron Johnson said.

Let me let you listen for yourself.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): This didn't seem like an armed insurrection to me. I mean, armed, when you think of armed, you think of firearms.

Here's the questions I would have liked to ask. How many firearms were confiscated? How many shots were fired? I'm only aware of one.

And I'll defend that lawsuit enforcement officer for taking that shot. It was a tragedy. Okay? But I think there was only one.

If that was a planned armed insurrection, then you have really a bunch of idiots.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

DEAN: Now the facts remain law enforcement did arrest people who arrived at the Capitol with guns and ammunition. We also have the firsthand report from one of the metropolitan police officers who was here who said that the crowd said shoot him with his own gun, meaning him, the police officer.

So, Kate, that just does not simply track with what the facts are.

Now in the meantime, I just learned that this legislation to create this 9/11-style commission to look into what exactly happened here, what Nancy Pelosi -- House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is calling for, that that legislation could be introduced as early as this week, moving that process along rather quickly. Again, to get that legislation done, they're going to need to pass that through the House and the Senate and then get President Biden to sign off on it.

But that commission is going to be able to look very detailed into what happened. Pelosi wants them to be looking into interference with transfer of power and also what happened with law enforcement, were they talking to each other, what exactly happened to make all of that transpire? And the big question, Kate, one thing to keep your eye on is, will

that commission, which is going to be made up of people outside of government and not elected officials, will they have subpoena power. That's going to be a big question as we move forward. But again that legislation to get the ball rolling could be coming as early as this week.

BOLDUAN: Jessica, thank you very much.

So, coming up, we're going to Ron Johnson's home state, Wisconsin.

[11:10:02]

We're going to talk with Milwaukee's mayor about what is going on with Senator Johnson as Jessica Dean just laid out really well. And also, what the mayor wants to hear from President Biden at tonight's CNN town hall in his city.

Also ahead for us, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo denying there was any sort of cover-up in the data of -- on COVID deaths in nursing homes. Is that enough for state lawmakers here in New York? I'm going to talk to a member of Cuomo's own party who has been speaking out.

(COMMERCIA BREAK)

BOLDUAN: President Biden is heading to Wisconsin this afternoon to make the case for the massive COVID relief package that he came up with that is now making its way through Congress. It's his first official tripe outside of Washington since his inauguration.

[11:15:03]

He's taking part in a CNN presidential town hall, another first for him since becoming president.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny is live in Milwaukee ahead of the president's visit.

Jeff, what are you hearing from folks there ahead of the president?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, from people who voted for President Biden and those who did not vote for President Biden, we're hearing common themes of they're giving him some time to get his programs in order, they're patient but want progress on COVID-19 relief. They want to see the vaccinations roll out more smoothly. They want to talk about economic relief.

We visited the town of Cedarburg, which is a suburb just north here in Milwaukee, where Joe Biden won the town by 19 votes, only 19 votes. And we talked to a small business owner about what her hopes were for the Biden administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NATASHA LOOS, WISCONSIN VOTER: My biggest hope is to see the stalemate that has happened in Washington and in our politics be broken. I just, for me as a person who is more of a moderate, I just don't get why we can't have a civil discussion about things and still go and have drinks together, you know?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, this is something that is going to be tested over the next month. Is President Biden going to be able to win over any Republican support, any bipartisan support for his COVID relief package or is he doing it alone with Democrats?

Kate, I can tell you, most voters here actually don't raise that very much. They want action. They want to see a smoother vaccine rollout. They want to see economic relief and they want to see progress on the president's pledge to unify the country.

And when you are speaking to supporters and those again who did not vote for President Biden, I was really struck by the sense that people want to give him time, want to give him the chance to try and get things done. But overall, a month after taking office, in this very intense battleground state last year, there is much more of a sense of patience and calm and wanting progress from the nation's capital, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Fascinating. Thanks so much, Jeff. I really appreciate it.

And a reminder, Jeff is there. A programming note for all of you, President Biden is joining CNN's Anderson Cooper tonight on CNN for an exclusive presidential town hall at 9:00 p.m. Eastern right there in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Still ahead for us, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, he is accepting some blame for the delay and the inaccuracy in the data on COVID -- coronavirus deaths in nursing homes in his state. But he denies any kind of cover-up.

The chair of the state senate health committee joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:20:40]

BOLDUAN: New York Governor Andrew Cuomo is now admitting mistakes were made in his administration's initial reporting of COVID deaths among residents of nursing homes in the state but he's denying any sort of cover-up occurred as questions continue to hang over his administration.

Cuomo defended himself in a lengthy press conference yesterday that focused almost entirely on the serious concerns over his handling of the COVID crisis back in the spring and whether decisions he made led to more infections and deaths in nursing homes that could have been avoided.

Is this now enough for state lawmakers from both parties who say he needs to be held to account?

CNN's Athena Jones has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: We made a mistake.

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Days after his top aide admitted their office withheld data for months about COVID-19 deaths of nursing homes residents, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo finally speaking out. Cuomo acknowledging on Monday that the data was not provided quickly enough.

CUOMO: In retrospect, should we have given more priority to fulfilling information requests? In my opinion, yes.

JONES: But maintaining that his administration provided accurate data.

CUOMO: To be clear, all the deaths in the nursing homes and in the hospitals were always fully publicly and accurately reported.

JONES: Approximately 15,000 long-term care facility residents have died in New York. That is about a third of all COVID deaths statewide, according to the Department of Health. But until late last month, New York only accounted separately for people who died from COVID-19 in long-term care facilities like nursing homes. The data didn't include the number of residents from those facilities who died after they were transferred to a hospital or elsewhere.

CUOMO: I understand the public had many questions and concerns and the president had many questions about nursing homes primarily. And I understand that they were not answered quickly enough.

JONES: The tipping point came during a private video call between the governor's top aide, Melissa DeRosa, and Democratic state lawmakers. DeRosa told the state lawmakers that the governor's office delayed giving updated information to them after then-President Trump's Department of Justice sent an inquiry about nursing homes deaths in the state because, quote: Basically we froze, because then we were in a position where we weren't sure of what we were going to give to the Department of Justice or what we give to you guys, what we start saying was going to be used against us.

[11:25:08]

Her words and admission is that the administration stalled on showing a true picture of how many nursing homes residents died, just as the governor was lauded globally for his pandemic response.

EMILY MUNSON, REPORTER, ALBANY TIMES: Between his Emmy for his coronavirus press briefings, to Governor Cuomo's book, to his speech at the Democratic National Convention, Governor Cuomo has been held up as the model governor in his coronavirus response, even though New York was so hard hit by the virus early on.

JONES: Cuomo arguing on Monday, much of the same as his top aide, that the request for data at the time was political motivated, and came amid many other competing priorities as the state was struggling to contain the virus. CUOMO: There was a lot going on. Everybody was working 24 hours a

day. Everybody was overwhelmed. We were in the midst of dealing with a pandemic and trying to save lives. They were answering DOJ.

JONES: But now, he's taking heat from both sides of the New York legislature.

You're only sorry that you all got caught, tweeted Democratic State Senator Alessandra Biaggi.

Other Democrats are actively discussing drafting a bill to strip Cuomo of his emergency powers and Republicans in the state going even further, declaring Cuomo should be investigated.

NICK LANGWORTHY, CHAIRMAN, NEW YORK GOP: The gravity of this cover-up cannot be overstated.

JONES: And using the word "impeachment".

LANGWORTHY: Andrew Cuomo must be prosecuted and Andrew Cuomo must be impeached if this evidence exists.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES (on camera): And we're getting more of a sense of how the general public is reacting to this controversy. A new poll from Siena College shows while 67 percent of New York registered voters believe Cuomo is doing an excellent or good job communicating with the people of New York about the pandemic, only 39 percent say he's done a good job of making public data about COVID-19 nursing homes deaths.

So, the public -- this poll was conducted after the New York attorney general saying they had undercounted those nursing homes deaths but before Cuomo's top aide admitted to delaying the release of that data -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Athena, thank you very much.

Joining me right now is New York state Democratic Senator Gustavo Rivera. He's also the chairman of the state's Senate -- the state's Senate Health Committee.

Thank you for coming on.

As I mentioned, you are a Democrat, Mr. Rivera, but you have been quite critical of Governor Cuomo's handling of this whole thing. So, his explanation yesterday, did that help explain it for you?

GUSTAVO RIVERA (D), NEW YORK STATE SENATOR: Not particularly.

The reality is that even though many folks have lauded Governor Cuomo's leadership in comparison to the abomination we had in the White House, he obviously looked competent. And listen, him and his administration can be competent. But in this regard, what they've been doing is they've been stonewalling us on data for months. We -- I co-chaired a series of hearings that were over 30 hours last

summer on the impact of COVID-19 of hospitals and nursing homes, and he stonewalled us for seven months and it was not until the attorney general who I thank on the record for doing her job, and doing an investigation here, that was the only time that he started to come clean.

BOLDUAN: So, voting to strip Cuomo of his emergency pandemic powers, you didn't want to give him the power to begin with as I understand it. Do you think this is definitely going to happen now?

RIVERA: Well, as you pointed out, these emergency powers were extended to the governor back in March of last year. I was one of a few legislators in the New York state legislature who voted against extending these powers. I believe then as I do now that the governor has the constitutional authority without these emergency powers to deal with the pandemic.

And as far as them being striped away, there are conversations happening in the legislature. This has to be something that we agree within our conference, within our majority conference, as well as within the legislature as a whole, the assembly and the senate.

The conversations are ongoing, but I have certainly been on the record and clear that he has the authority necessary without the emergency powers and I hope we take them away from him soon.

BOLDUAN: Cuomo says emergency -- these emergency powers have nothing to do with nursing homes. That's how he said it yesterday.

Do you think folks are looking, I don't know, for a remedy or a punishment in the wrong place?

RIVERA: Well, first of all, I think that both are related but not certainly on a one for one basis. The reality is that the emergency powers have allowed the governor to make decisions without the involvement or the oversight of the legislature and by himself and with his closest political allies and have not involved anybody else outside of that very close circle.

And the decisions that were made about nursing homes were part of it. But the thing that we're talking about as far as nursing homes, we're talking about data and information, which they have not provided to us.

And the governor insists, yesterday, he again it seems that this administration does not and him personally could not just say I'm sorry, cannot say I made a mistake.