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COVID Numbers Dropping; Top Democratic Congressman Files Lawsuit Against Trump, Giuliani; Biden Set to Hold Town Hall in Wisconsin. Aired 3-3:30p ET.

Aired February 16, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:18]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Hi there, and thank you so much for being with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin. And you're watching CNN.

And before we get going, I want to start with some personal news. I will be leaving CNN in April.

Let me back up. After most of my 20s working my way up in local news, I came to this network in 2008, in the midst of the Great Recession, as a freelancer.

I remember I scribbled my name on a Post-it note and stuck it outside of this temporary office, determined to fulfill my dream of becoming a full-time CNN correspondent.

I wanted to be part of the best of the best in cable news and journalism. And as a native Atlantan, this would be my hometown team.

Little did I know I would not only go on to fulfill that dream. I would flourish in this environment and land my own two-hour show in the afternoon at the age of 31.

For a decade, I have never taken for granted the enormous responsibility and privilege I have had to work with some of the most talented producers and photojournalists and correspondents and anchors out there, as we have covered our era's most urgent and most important stories, conflicts, terrorism, environmental and natural disasters, the wrath of gun violence, human interest stories, royal weddings, my "American Woman" series, the social justice movements that define our culture, and a pandemic that changed the world, and politics, lots of politics.

You have been here with me every step of the way, never more so than when I was incredibly sick with COVID last year.

I am so grateful for your loyalty and passion for the world we cover, and so grateful to my show team -- you know who you are -- you know who you are -- to Jeff Zucker, to my very large CNN family, and to you, to you. The next chapter of my life will be focused on what I love the most

about my work, amplifying the lives of extraordinary Americans and putting my passion for storytelling to good use.

For the last two years, I have been working on my first book. It's called "Huddle: How Women Unlock Their Collective Power." And there is just more I need to do, more I need to do outside of this place, outside of the walls of this place, a place I have been privileged to call home now for 13 years.

And, yes, we are still in a pandemic. And, no, I don't have a job I'm jumping right into.

And, yes, yes, I'm feeling very vulnerable. But what is it Brene Brown says? Vulnerability is the birthplace of innovation, creativity and change.

And I am so excited about what is to come. So, here goes. I really do hope you join me.

And in the meantime, I will be right here with you, right here, until mid-April. And now to the news.

Less than a month since taking office, President Joe Biden will answer questions from the American people tonight at his very first presidential town hall. It is also his first official domestic trip as president.

It will take place at the Pabst Theater in Milwaukee. And it airs right here on CNN with moderator Anderson Cooper.

And we do expect the president to push his $1.9 trillion COVID relief bill, but he will also likely be pressed about the nationwide vaccine effort against COVID-19. The National Governors Association just wrote a letter to the White House calling for better coordination on vaccine distribution, particularly when it comes to sending those shots to local pharmacies.

So, let's talk about that.

With me now, CNN chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny and CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash.

And, Dana, I want to begin with you.

This is Biden's first big chance to really promote his COVID relief plan and try to unite a divided nation. How does he do that?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Can I just -- I'm going to answer, that I promise, but point of personal privilege, as they like to say here in Washington, D.C., Brooke, I -- you know I think that you are the best.

[15:05:03]

I have learned so much from you about so many things, but not the least of which is that the news isn't just the information and the facts that you break or that you report. It's about the people behind them

And you, more than anybody I know in this business, understands that, and you put the emotion, the humanity with your reporting every single day.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: And for anybody watching Brooke, thinking that you're the only person in the room that she's focused on, it's because it's true. That's what you get when you're talking to Brooke in person.

It's like nobody else matters. That's how much she listens to you.

And I know that that's what you have been doing to your viewers -- with your viewers for so long. And I'm proud to be part of your huddle.

OK.

BALDWIN: You are. You are.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: You are. And I love you. And thank you.

BASH: Thanks. Thanks, Brooke.

But we are reporters, and we're journalists. So, the answer to your question--

BALDWIN: Let's get on. Let's get onto it, yes.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: Yes.

The answer to your question is, this is a big -- this is going to be a big, big night for Joe Biden. I am popping the popcorn and I am going to watch to see how he does exactly what you said, resets.

Of course, he's been president for almost a month, but there has been so much tumult and so much -- aside from what he has to do, so much distraction, with the insurrection and all of the fallout. Obviously, the fallout came after he was inaugurated.

Now the impeachment is behind everybody, and he is really focused on the first task at hand, which is passing an enormous unprecedented relief bill in order to bring home the promises that he has been making, Brooke, from the beginning of his campaign, certainly from the beginning of the pandemic, that he alone is the guy who has the experience to get everybody in this country out of this mess, both the health side and the economic side.

So, he's going to have to reassure people that he is -- he was the right choice, that they were right.

BALDWIN: How does he do that?

Jeff Zeleny, I know you talk to people inside the administration here. How is he approaching that evening?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Before I get to that, I'll echo everything that Dana said, Brooke.

And can't wait to see where you go from here. Some island time in your future, I hope. And you know what I mean.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: Yes, I do, you and me.

ZELENY: Before that, though -- come on down.

But, before that, look, this is President Biden's chance to really get that megaphone back. He's been sharing it, essentially, for the last three weeks, for the first virtual month of his presidency, with the impeachment trial.

So this is a chance this week for President Biden to seize that bully pulpit and explain his plan. Americans want to hear what he's going to do in terms of vaccine supply, getting the COVID relief bill passed. This is one thing a president can do.

He's lived his life in the U.S. Senate and as vice president, but now he's president of the United States. That commands a pedestal unlike any other.

BALDWIN: Yes.

ZELENY: So, he's taking his plan to the country to sell that.

You know, he's definitely going to use his empathy tonight as well, because that's where his strengths are. Now, the challenges, of course, are many. It's getting it passed, but tonight actually might be a bit of the easy part, taking his case to the people.

BALDWIN: Let's get to the tough part, Dana.

We -- so many, I don't know, weeks, for a long time, we have been having these conversations about this massive divide in the Republican Party, but look at the Democrats. Unemployment benefits run out for millions of Americans in less than a month, and the Democrats are not all on the same page still.

And the longer this drags out, this could be a broken promise from the Biden administration and have real ramifications for his party come 2022, right?

BASH: Yes, absolutely, which is why the Biden administration, the president himself no doubt understands the urgency of the next few weeks, because of the timeline and the deadline that you just talked about.

And it's also why, pretty early on, like, I don't know, day one, despite the fact that President Biden had Republicans first before anybody at the White House, he was putting kind of a down payment on that conversation for bipartisanship down the road, but that he was and is going to move forward with his Democratic colleagues on the package that he says will answer those problems from the beginning.

But you alluded to this, Brooke, in your question. Even doing this with -- by relying only on Democrats is not easy.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: Because it's such a razor-thin margin in the House hand. And in the Senate, you have moderate Democrats who are making some demands. So that is the hurdle that he has to overcome, bringing the intraparty differences together.

They are not huge. I don't want to overstate it, but they exist.

BALDWIN: Totally.

We should note, Jeff, that the president is doing this in Wisconsin, a state he won by less than a percentage point. I know you have been talking to voters there. What are they saying to you?

[15:10:00]

ZELENY: Well, they certainly want to see progress on all of these things. First and foremost, when am I getting my vaccination? When is my check coming?

But beyond that, Brooke, I was struck talking to so many voters who voted for the president and voters who did not. We talked to Trump voters as well. To a person, I was struck by, people are giving him the chance, maybe not the hard-core, but people are giving him a chance and pulling for his success. They want to see him unify this country.

So, I was really struck by the words of one a Trump voter who said she's praying for Joe Biden's success. She thinks he's a good man and she wants to see him unify this country. So, maybe, at least for a moment, not to be Pollyannish about this, but this is his opportunity.

But he's in Wisconsin for a reason, a key battleground state, big Senate race potentially in 2022. So, this is now Joe Biden's pedestal and show. And we will see how he takes it from. Here but he's in the country for a reason, Brooke.

BALDWIN: We will be watching.

Jeff, Dana, thank you for the kind words. I love you all.

Thank you.

BASH: Love you back. BALDWIN: Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Make sure you watch tonight as President Joe Biden joins Anderson Cooper live from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, in an exclusive presidential town hall. It all starts 9:00 Eastern only here on CNN.

Breaking today, a leading House Democrat is now suing former President Trump and his lawyer Rudy Giuliani, accusing them of conspiring with far right groups to incite that deadly capital insurrection. We have those new details ahead.

Also, one of the nation's leading vaccine experts says the dramatic drop in coronavirus cases could be a sign that we're finally approaching herd immunity. So, let's talk about that.

And Republicans punishing another one of their own for voting to convict former President Trump -- why Senator Richard Burr says it is a sad day for his party.

You're watching--

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:25]

BALDWIN: We're back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Donald Trump is facing even more fallout from that January 6 insurrection on the U.S. Capitol, and now it's from a sitting member of Congress.

Top House Democratic Bennie Thompson has just filed a civil lawsuit against the former president and Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani in federal court in D.C. for their roles in last month's deadly riots.

Backing the suit, the NAACP. Thompson, who chairs the House Homeland Security Committee, accuses Trump and Giuliani of conspiring with far right groups the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers, who are also named in the suit, to incite that attack.

So, let's go straight to CNN justice correspondent Jessica Schneider.

And, Jessica, what exactly does the lawsuit allege?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, this is a significant and novel lawsuit.

It's by that top Democrat, Bennie Thompson, backed by the NAACP. And it accuses former President Trump and Rudy Giuliani of actually working, in some sense, with far right groups to incite this insurrection at the Capitol.

So, to make this conspiracy claim, this lawsuit traces Trump's words and actions in the months leading up to the insurrection. It really details how Trump and Giuliani spouted what they're referring to as misinformation and angry rhetoric for weeks before the election and weeks after the election.

And, Brooke, in one part of the lawsuit, it even accuses Trump of delaying his speech on the Ellipse on January 6, so members of the Proud Boys could advance to the Capitol and better plot their attack.

Now, this is a claim. It is not backed up by any evidence in the lawsuit. So we will see what comes up. But it is part of this broader conspiracy claim. So, here's how they lay it out in the lawsuit.

It says: "The insurrection at the Capitol was a direct, intended and foreseeable result of the defendants' unlawful conspiracy. It was instigated according to a common plan that the defendants pursued since the election held in November 2020, culminating in an assembly denominated as the Save America rally, during which defendants Trump and Giuliani incited the crowd of thousands to descend upon the Capitol."

So, in addition to this conspiracy, this lawsuit, Brooke, is really significant, not only because it's seeking monetary damages against Trump and Giuliani, but, crucially, if this case moves forward, it could subject the president and others to depositions, even the disclosure of information that could really pin down more details about what Trump knew about this attack before it happened, as it was happening, something that investigators have been clamoring to know.

It is a high bar, though, to meet this all to make this lawsuit move forward. And now we're hearing from Trump spokesman Jason Miller. So this is what he had to say today: "President Trump has been acquitted in the Democrats' latest impeachment witch-hunt, and the facts are irrefutable. President Trump did not plan, produce or organize the January 6 rally on the Ellipse. President Trump did not incite or conspire to incite any violence at the Capitol on January 6."

And then he puts in this: "Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Washington, D.C., Mayor Muriel Bowser must answer questions as to why they rejected additional security and National Guard assistance in the run-up to January 6."

So, once again, team Trump shifting the blame there, or at least trying to, Brooke.

Now, we have also reached out to Rudy Giuliani, and we haven't heard back yet. But I am told House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, she has been briefed on this lawsuit. And, Brooke, other members of Congress are likely to join it too.

BALDWIN: I'm going to drill down on this with one of my favorite lawyers here.

Jessica Schneider, thank you so much for just setting it all up.

Let's talk about all of this, the civil lawsuit that former President Trump and Rudy Giuliani are facing. With me now, Elie Honig, CNN legal analyst and former federal and state prosecutor, and was an assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.

[15:20:08]

So, Elie Honig, how serious is this? And how much trouble could Trump and Giuliani really be?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Brooke, so, this is a really unusual lawsuit.

The law that the congressman is using to sue here, I have never seen it used in a case before. It actually dates back to right after the Civil War. It was passed to try to prevent the Ku Klux Klan from stopping government from functioning by using threats and violence and intimidation, probably not a good statement, by the way, about where we are now that it may be applicable again here in 2021.

But the important thing to know is, this is only the tip of the iceberg. We are going to see lawsuits, I believe the more conventional kind of lawsuits, seeking damages for injuries, potentially for death, from essentially anybody who was injured during the Capitol riot.

This is only the first of what I think are going to be many to come. Donald Trump is going to be locked up in court for a long time on these cases.

BALDWIN: You know, I know that the lawsuit alleges a conspiracy. And when you think of a conspiracy, you have this instant mental image of a bunch of mobsters sitting in this backroom of a restaurant scheming together.

HONIG: Yes.

BALDWIN: But what do you make of conspiracy here?

HONIG: Yes, it's an interesting claim here.

So, you're right, Brooke, under the law, in order to show a conspiracy, you do not have to show people huddling in a backroom. That is what people sometimes expect. That's not reality. That's not what the law requires.

And, by the way, there's no new evidence in this case showing that Donald Trump or Rudy Giuliani were having secret communications with the Proud Boys, the other defendants. If there were, that would be shocking to see, but we have not seen that.

But what this lawsuit does is make the case that the way they communicated was this pattern. Donald Trump put some misinformation out there. Rudy Giuliani and other enablers amplify it, retweet it, go on certain stations and repeat it. And then the Proud Boys and the other groups pick it up.

And they sort of disseminate it amongst themselves using Parler and using other apparatus. So, it makes, I think, a pretty compelling case that, even though they're not huddled up around a table together, they know how to do this sort of call-and-response communication.

BALDWIN: What about discovery? This opens the door for discovery. What kind of information can be requested and what can we learn from this?

HONIG: Yes, discovery is going to be really interesting here.

That's when the parties have to exchange information with one another. One of the things we could see is depositions, when someone has to answer questions under oath asked by a lawyer. Donald Trump could be deposed here. Rudy Giuliani could be deposed here.

And the other thing is, discovery in a case like this often involves documents, so if there are e-mails, if there are texts, if there are memos. And they could be asking other people in the White House, what was Donald Trump doing during those key hours? The kind of questions that were asked, but never quite answered during impeachment, we could start to get some more specific answers as discovery proceeds in this case and other ones like it.

BALDWIN: Donald Trump is facing, as you well know, a few lawsuits, right, both criminal and civil in Georgia, in New York, the defamation lawsuits involving those -- the women.

Which of all of the above should be worrying the Trump legal team the most?

HONIG: Well, as a rule, you're always going to be more worried about criminal charges than civil lawsuits, because criminal charges, of course, involve jail.

Now, he's not been charged with anything criminally. But the two that would scare me if I was advising Donald Trump would be the Georgia DA's investigation of potential election interference down in Georgia related to the president's calls to Brad Raffensperger and--

BALDWIN: Finding the votes, right.

HONIG: Yes, and -- exactly -- find 11,780 votes.

And the Manhattan DA's investigation would be worrisome as well. That's a straight-up financial fraud. That's going to largely be on the documents. So, those should be the biggest concerns. But, boy, he's going to have a lot of civil lawsuits to deal with as well.

BALDWIN: Elie Honig, thank you.

HONIG: Great to see you. Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: The Biden administration announces plans to increase the vaccine supply -- what that means for so many of you and who still cannot get a shot.

And the GOP in disarray, Republicans divided over Trump's impact on the future of their party -- why Senator Richard Burr is calling it all -- quote -- "sad."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:45]

BALDWIN: News about declining new COVID cases is stirring up some hope that the end of this pandemic could be in sight.

Hospitalizations are dropping week to week. But, unfortunately, it's not quite enough to quell other concerns, such as all these variants popping up. CDC experts warned the strain which originated in the U.K. could be dominant in the U.S. by next month.

And just when the states were starting to get into the groove on vaccinations, this giant winter storm blanketing a third of the country is hampering their efforts. The demand remains way above the supply.

But will we see another surge? That's the question. Dr. Anthony Fauci reminds us all, now is not the time to get complacent.

CNN's Alexandra Field reports from New York.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today, a more hopeful picture emerging across America, every state but one trending in the right direction.

DR. PAUL OFFIT, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: I think we're starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel. But, at the -- at best, we're just -- it's a start.

FIELD: Hospitalizations are at less than half the peak in early January, deaths nationwide their lowest since November.

OFFIT: One possibility is that you're starting to see some evidence for herd immunity or population immunity.

FIELD: But not all experts agree the worst is behind us, White House senior COVID adviser Andy Slavitt warning, the numbers could be misleading.

ANDY SLAVITT, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE ADVISER FOR COVID RESPONSE: We should be assuming that the next wave of case growth, to the extent that we have it, is going to be with B117.