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Immigration Policy Confuses at the Border; President Biden and Iran May Return to Talks; Interview with Biden Campaign Foreign Policy Adviser Nicholas Burns. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired February 19, 2021 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

WHITNEY WILD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Last month, we reported that one officer had been suspended after taking a selfie with rioters, and that another officer had been suspended after putting on a MAGA hat and apparently directing rioters around the building, Poppy.

At the time, that information was coming from Ohio Representative Tim Ryan, but again, this information, coming directly from USCP. What we don't know is why these officers are under investigation. We also don't know why they've been suspended. We've asked USCP twice now, and we're trying to get more detail -- Poppy.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, of course. OK. As you wait for those answers, you've also got several judges in different states that have actually split with the Justice Department, which the DOJ had requested that states and those judges keep those rioters in jail as they all wait for trial. How is this all playing out and what is the reasoning that some of the judges are giving?

WILD: Well, it splits all across the country. So there are some examples of some of these rioters who are actually seen in viral photos of -- going through the justice system in different ways.

For example, Eric Munchel -- he's the man who had been seen in body armor, all black, carry zip tie-like hand restraints -- a judge at one point had said he could go out of custody. Another judge, reviewing his case, said he had to stay behind bars. That's just one example of this sort of changing opinion from judges about what kind of risk these rioters actually pose.

In addition, there's another man in New Mexico who prosecutors say presented a risk. And still, the judge broke with DOJ, saying that that man could get out of custody although he's on a GPS monitor -- Poppy.

HARLOW: OK, Whitney Wild, thank you for the reporting for us in Washington this morning.

Just ahead, President Biden says America is back as he takes a major step to restore America's place on the world stage. We'll have much more, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:36:11]

HARLOW: The White House has just laid out a sweeping immigration reform package that would, if it gets through Congress, pave a path to citizenship for millions of undocumented immigrants. This comes as the Biden administration begins the gradual re-entry of migrants forced to stay in Mexico under a Trump-era policy.

Here is reporting from our Ed Lavandera on the impact a new president is having on border crossings.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Several times a day, Customs and Border Protection officials drop off groups of migrants at the bus station in McAllen, Texas

LAVANDERA: (SPEAKING IN SPANISH) When did you cross?

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Edwin (ph) Rubio (ph) tells us he crossed the border the day before with his son.

LAVANDERA (through translator): Did you come because there's a new president here in the United States?

EDWIN (PH) RUBIO (PH), CROSSED THE BORDER (through translator): Yes, correct. There will be new laws, new immigration laws that will favor Latinos.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Rubio (ph) is part of a rise in arrivals at the southern border that's been slowly increasing since last April. The migrants are driven by the COVID pandemic, and the devastation left by two major hurricanes.

CBP reports about 78,000 people were apprehended at the southern border in January. These migrants have permission to move on with notices to appear in court.

LAVANDERA: The Biden administration continues to warn migrants coming to the United States that in many cases, they will be turned away. But the fact of the matter is there are still some of these migrants who are being released. What we've seen here in McAllen is many family units. You can see here, mothers and fathers and many young children.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): They wait inside an old nightclub that's been turned into a Catholic charity shelter, run by Sister Norma Pimentel. She tells us it's a confusing time on the border because while come families are being released, there are still roughly 20,000 migrants stranded on the other side of the border. These migrants are a result of the Trump administration's controversial Remain in Mexico policy.

NORMA PIMENTEL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CATHOLIC CHARITIES RIO GRANDE VALLEY: It is very confusing and they don't understand that. Why them first and not us? You know, we've been here, waiting for this day. And it's so disheartening to see them in such terrible conditions. LAVANDERA (voice-over): While the Biden administration says it will

begin processing migrants registered in the Remain in Mexico policy later this week, what's unfolding on the border captures the unstable reality of the country's immigration system.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Now is not the time to come. And the vast majority of people will be turned away.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Sister Pimentel says the numbers of migrants released to this shelter has jumped in recent weeks from a few people a day to about a hundred a day now. And it's up to the shelter staff to administer COVID-19 tests. Local officials tell CNN out of hundreds of tests, only two migrants have tested positive so far.

IVAN MELENDEZ, MISSION REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER: They absolutely need to take this seriously from a public health perspective, it's a complete nightmare.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Some migrants, like this family from Haiti who say they entered through California, were forced to quarantine in a hotel for two weeks as a COVID precaution. They're being assisted by the nonprofit Jewish Family Service.

The parents ask that we call them Falla (ph) and Dol (ph). Falla (ph) says it didn't matter who was president, only that his family hopes to get asylum in the U.S. to escape the criminals who have tried to kill him.

FALLA (PH), CROSSED BORDER FROM HAITI (through translator): We decided to leave my country to save my life and my family's.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Ed Lavandera, CNN, McAllen, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Ed, thank you for that reporting.

[10:39:46]

Up next, the Biden administration formally offers to restart nuclear talks with Iran. We'll have much more on this reporting, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Well, the Biden administration is taking a significant step toward possibly salvaging the Iran nuclear deal. Former President Trump pulled the U.S. out of the deal in 2018, imposing new sanctions on Iran. Our Nic Robertson is with us.

Nic, Iran is saying you have to lift these sanctions fully and immediately before we talk to you. Obviously the U.S. isn't going to do that. So you know, where will the two meet? Will they even talk?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It looks like they're (ph) on track to talk. We heard from the Iranian foreign minister this morning, responding to what we heard overnight that the United States is willing to get back around the table with the Iranians, with the other members of the P5, the permanent Security Council five, you know, Russia, China, U.K., France, Germany and the European Union, who were all part of the signatories for the original deal.

So that's been said. So what did Zarif, the foreign minister in Iran, say today? He said no, you've got to roll back the sanctions -- all that have been imposed, all that have been reimposed by President Trump and all that have been relabeled. But he didn't put a deadline on that. And until now, the Iranians had given the U.S. administration until this weekend to comply with pulling off all the sanctions, there's a softening there.

Yesterday, you had the president of Iran saying it's important for this deal -- for the JCPOA, the nuclear deal to survive. And he said when he was speaking to the European Council president, I leave it up to the European foreign policy chief to figure out a way forward on this.

So I think the mood music around this means that those talks will happen and the U.S. won't have to back off on the sanctions. But equally, Iran is not doing what President Biden said they should have done before coming to the table, which is come back into compliance. And they are way out of compliance right now -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Yes. Nic Robertson, we'll watch. It's incredibly important to global security, thank you for the reporting this morning.

So let's bring in Ambassador Nicholas Burns, foreign policy adviser for the Biden 2020 campaign, former under secretary of state for Political Affairs, and former U.S. ambassador to NATO. Good morning, Ambassador, and thank you for your time.

NICHOLAS BURNS, FORMER FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER FOR BIDEN 2020 CAMPAIGN: Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: These developments with Iran are very significant, what (ph) the Biden administration said yesterday, that they're willing to sit down to reopen talks about the nuclear deal. But this also comes as a civilian military contractor was killed in that rocket attack in Iraq, and a U.S. service member injured. An Iranian-backed Shia militia group claimed responsibility for it; the Iranian government denies they're behind it.

And Josh Rogin -- I thought this was an interesting analysis by him in the post last night -- he argued against negotiating with Iran. He writes, "After large-scale withdrawals, the remaining U.S. troops in Iraq are living under increased risk. If Iranian proxies feel they can attack U.S. troops without consequence, it will not be long before the next and more deadly strike." Is he right?

BURNS: I think President Biden's right to try to see if there's a way forward on negotiations with Iran. And it's going to be up to the Iranians to have to prove to the United States that on the issue you just talked about --

HARLOW: Yes.

BURNS: -- their support for (ph) violent terrorism in the Middle East and these violent militia groups in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, if they're going to stand down. If, also, they're going to be open to restrictions on their ballistic missiles.

Those are the two issues that were left out of the 2015 Iran nuclear agreement, so I think the Biden administration is right to say, as they did yesterday, the U.S. is willing to go back to talks, hosted by the European Union, on the nuclear deal --

HARLOW: Yes.

BURNS: -- and to challenge the Iranians to stand down on their nuclear activities, both their uranium enrichment and plutonium activities, and to go back to the restrictions of 2015.

And at some point, whether it's part of this deal -- that kind of deal or it's a separate agreement, the Iranians have to be restricted. And the Europeans and the Arab countries should support the United States in this on the mayhem that they're causing in the Middle East.

HARLOW: You served as U.S. ambassador to NATO, as I just said before. French President Emmanuel Macron did an interview with the "Financial Times" yesterday -- I'm sure you've seen it, but let me read for our viewers part of what he said.

He said, "I am a defender of European sovereignty, of strategic autonomy, not because I'm against NATO or because I doubt our American friends, but because I am lucid on the state of the world. Nobody can tell me that today's NATO is a structure that, in its foundations, is still pertinent."

What do you think about that, having led on that front?

BURNS: I think NATO is still pertinent, and still highly relevant. Look, we've just -- you know, we've just had a major Russian cyber- attack on the United States, and the U.S. will be stronger in responding to that with all of our NATO allies.

We still have Russian pressure in Eastern Europe on some of our NATO allies, the three Baltic countries and Poland. So that's why President Obama and President Trump have had troops -- American, Canadian, British troops -- up in the Baltic states. We have to contain Russian power.

And we also have to react to China. We need NATO to hopefully agree to have a consistent united policy on 5G with China, and so I think NATO is highly relevant. Most European leaders so. I hope that the French government, the German government will agree to spend more on defense. I mean, that's what the United States has wanted for many, many years.

And Joe Biden's going to be speaking to -- President Biden -- to the Munich Security Conference this morning. I think it's going to be a very positive reaffirmation of U.S. leadership in NATO. HARLOW: Last week, it was just last week that you called China,

quote, "the most challenging relationship that the U.S. has in the world today." Secretary of State Blinken, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, they agree with you on that assessment. What should the U.S. priority vis-a-vis China be in terms of the number-one focus?

[10:50:19]

BURNS: We have to compete. We have to compete to protect our businesses from unfair Chinese trade practices, we have to compete to retain our military primacy that we've had for seven decades in the Indo-Pacific.

I think we also have to compete on values. Xi Jinping has been saying that the authoritarian state model is the model of the future; we Americans don't agree with that, and Japanese and Indians don't either.

So it's competing with China, and I think there's almost a unity in the Republican and Democratic Parties, a bipartisan unity, that we have to be tough-minded. And at the same time, the United States returned to the Paris climate change agreement today. We're going to have to work with China on climate change, we're the two largest carbon emitters.

So I think it's -- you know, we're going to -- it's going to be a little bit of both. But the emphasis, I think, right now is defending American workers and defending Americans from this big competition with China.

HARLOW: And what about standing up for human rights, right? I mean, this is an area where both outgoing Secretary Pompeo and incoming Secretary of State Blinken completely agreed that was was happening -- is happening to the Uyghur population is genocide.

I mean, they called it genocide, and I want you to listen to my colleague Ivan Watson's remarkable new reporting on these shocking allegations of gang rape in the detention camps in Xinjiang Province. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Tursunay Ziyawudun, a refugee from China's Xinjiang region, describes the torture and rape she says she endured during detention in a Chinese internment camp.

WATSON: How is your health today, after your experience in the camps?

TURSUNAY ZIYAWUDUN, FORMER XINJIANG CAMP DETAINEE (through translator): I was in a lot of pain and suffered bleeding. After I arrived in the U.S., I had to undergo surgery and my uterus was removed. I've suffered a lot of damage.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: Beijing denies all of that. They say, look, these are vocational training centers to stamp out Islamist extremism. But I mean, look what is happening to these women.

How does the U.S. engage? You say, you know, being competitive and taking them on, how does the U.S. engage with China on these other big issues while this is happening?

BURNS: We have to be honest about them. These are shocking revelations. I very much agree with what President Biden has said, and what Secretary Tony Blinken said, that this is a genocide occurring in Xinjian Province against the Uyghur population. So we have to speak out.

We have to speak out on Hong Kong, President Trump was largely silent on Hong Kong. We have to have our voice very strongly encouraging a return to freedom there. I think it's going to be very difficult, given what the Chinese have done over the past summer.

In general, the United States has to be a stronger voice on human rights on China, but certainly on Alexey Navalny as well. And you've seen that in this first month from both President Biden and Secretary Blinken.

HARLOW: Ambassador, let me just end on the issue of Egypt, that perhaps is not getting the same headlines as Iran and China, but it's important, what we've just seen happen. Because on the campaign trail, President Biden spoke about taking on Egypt's human rights abuses, saying there would be, quote, "no more blank check for Trump's favorite dictator," talking about el-Sisi.

Just this week, though, the Biden administration approved a very large arms sale -- $197 million -- for Egypt. Was that an error in judgment by the Biden administration?

BURNS: I don't think so. I think we have to be able to do more than two things at once. On the one hand, we certainly have to be very critical of human rights abuses, of detention, of Egyptian democracy activists (ph), in my view, when they are detained unfairly. And I think you've seen that from this administration.

But on the other hand, of course, we have a wide array of interests in the Middle East, and one of them is strengthening some of the Sunni Arab countries against the Iran threat that we started this conversation about. The fact that Iran is really punching a big hole in the Sunni world.

So just as previous governments have tried to have that balance, I think it's appropriate for us to do this now. But you're not seeing a silence from the Biden administration on human rights, you're seeing an American president and administration be much more forthright about these issues --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Sure, but it's -- BURNS: -- certainly than the Trump administration was.

HARLOW: It's a similar issue they're facing with Saudi Arabia, though. How do you engage and also at the same time be willing to send -- be willing -- you know, the question is, is it a blank check when it comes to arms sales.

We'll have to have you back because I'm being told we're out of time. But Ambassador, thank you very, very much.

(CROSSTALK)

BURNS: Thanks (ph) (IINAUDIBLE), Poppy. Thank you.

HARLOW: It's nice to have you, thank you very much.

[10:54:58]

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Best news, cheers and fist pumps at NASA as scientists celebrated the culmination of a six-month, 300 million-mile journey to Mars. Look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Touchdown confirmed. Perseverance is safely on the surface of Mars, ready to begin seeking the (ph) signs (ph) of past life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:00:01]

HARLOW: What an amazing moment for the world, NASA's Perseverance rover, landing itself safely on Mars yesterday.