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Boeing 777 Engine Failure Rains Debris Over Denver Suburb; Houston Lifts Boil Water Advisory After Five Days; Merrick Garland's Confirmation Hearing For Attorney General Begins Monday; America Is Back; COVID Deaths And Vaccinations; GOP Election Fraud Doner. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired February 21, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: I'm Fredricka Whitfield. CNN NEWSROOM with Erica Hill starts right now.

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Good afternoon, you're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Erica Hill in New York, in for Ana Cabrera.

It is the airline disaster that almost was. People in a Denver suburb still rattled and amazed today at their narrow escape. Huge pieces of a United Airlines plane raining down in their neighborhood.

Today we have brand-new images including some frightening video of airplane parts crashing into the ground from 10,000 feet in the air.

All of this happening in Broomfield, Colorado. It was right in the flight path of planes taking off from Denver International Airport. Now incredibly no one on the ground was hurt by the debris falling from that Boeing 777. The debris field, a mile long, littered with pieces large and small, some of them several feet long.

(Voice-over): You see this one as well which has gotten so much attention. Some pieces weighing hundreds of pounds. Some homes and vehicles damaged by the impact. But again really remarkable that no one was injured.

(On camera): CNN aviation correspondent Pete Muntean is with us, CNN national correspondent Omar Jimenez is as well. He is in Denver where that United Airlines flight departed from Denver International Airport just over 24 hours ago.

Omar, we'll go first to you with the very latest.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erica, this is the situation, as you know, that could have been so much worse. This was a flight that was bound for Honolulu from here at Denver International Airport Saturday afternoon, and thankfully it wasn't over water when they had to make the decision to turn back around.

Now, as part of -- the miraculous part of this entire story is that as this plane was going, pieces, some fragments, but huge pieces from this aircraft were falling into neighborhoods below. The neighborhoods of Broomfield, Colorado, outside of Denver. And while we did see damage to at least some vehicles, minor damage to some homes, homes could have been destroyed. People could have been killed or at the very least injured. That didn't happen. Somehow.

And while all of that was happening on the ground, up in the air, passengers described hearing a big boom, and they looked over to the right and saw that damaged engine missing pieces that had clearly at that point already fallen down to earth.

Now, people get made fun of for clapping when planes land. But in this case I think it was appropriate because they turned around. They were able to get back down safely. Passengers cheered as they exited unscathed, guided through this entire experience by the pilots and crew of this. But now quite literally, the pieces of this investigation are being picked up by the National Transportation Safety Board to try and figure out how this could have happened -- Erica.

HILL: Yes. Really, I mean, just kudos to the pilots and the flight crew there, to the folks in air traffic control.

Pete, as we look at this, the big question, we know that there was engine failure. But do we know anything more about exactly what happened in those moments after takeoff?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Few details still publicly available about why this engine failed. The right engine of this 777 in such a dramatic way. What's so interesting here is that we can now hear on the air traffic control audio the fire alarms going off inside the flight deck as the crew declared that original mayday call.

I want you to hear it now, what they said to air traffic control in Denver.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mayday, mayday, United Air 328, heavy mayday, mayday, aircraft --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 328, Heavy, say again -- repeat all that again?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Denver departure United 328 Heavy mayday aircraft, just experienced engine failure. Need to return immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: This is going to be so important for the National Transportation Safety Board, which is just beginning its investigation. Not only will it zero in on the actions of the crew. It will also zero in on that engine, a Pratt & Whitney PW 4,000, according to United Airlines.

This is an engine that has had failures like this before. In fact, the United Airlines flight also on its way to Honolulu had a similar instance only a couple of years ago, blew the cowling, the outer shell of that engine, off in a very similar incident. So this is something that the probe is just beginning, and there is a

bit of a precedent here. And there needs to be a probe to see what actually happened with this engine and why it failed in such a big way.

HILL: Pete, real quickly, the fact that there has been a significant reduction in travel in this country over the past year or so because of the pandemic, if this plane had sat idle, much like a car that you need to start from time to time if you're not using it, is there any chance that could play a role?

MUNTEAN: It could have played a role, but I've looked into this a little bit, Erica. And according to Flight Aware, last six months, actually last eight months, this plane has flown about 300 times so it was in regular use.

[16:05:07]

It is a concern, though, according to the FAA, because it actually instituted a bulletin to operators of the Boeing 737 after that plane sat idle for a while, depending on the airline, and a valve inside one of the engines, a check air valve that supplied hot air to the plane's critical anti-icing system, could have been problematic and stopped functioning because of lack of use in the pandemic.

So this is something that aviation investigators and aviation experts have looked into a little bit. Does not seem to be the incident -- the case in this incident, but it is something that the airlines and the FAA and the NTSB is aware of.

HILL: Yes, and that investigation, as you both pointed out, is underway.

Pete Muntean, Omar Jimenez, thank you both.

Also joining us now, Jim Hall, who was chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board for seven years.

Jim, good to have you with us. You actually called this another example of cracks in aviation safety. Why?

JIM HALL, FORMER NTSB CHAIRMAN: Well, in the last decade, the FAA has been a very sluggish regulator and a lot of the regulatory responsibilities have been transferred from the FAA to the industry. I think we saw that in the 737 MAX investigations that was conducted by Congress and the inspector general and others.

And I am hopeful that the new secretary will put a commission in place to address what I think is a failure on the part of the FAA to provide the type of safety oversight that we as taxpayers and people who pay the airline taxes pay for.

HILL: I want to follow-up. You just mentioned the 737 MAX and what we learned in the investigation there, after the plane was grounded for nearly two years following two fatal crashes, that House Transportation Committee report in it blasted, blasted Boeing. Also the FAA, writing, "The facts documented a disturbing pattern of

technical miscalculation and troubling mismanagement judgments made by Boeing. It also illuminates numerous oversight lapses and accountability gaps by the FAA that played a significant role in the 737 MAX crashes."

Now I have to point out that following that report, the FAA said it looked forward to working with the committee to implement improvements that had been identified. Boeing said it had incorporated feedback from the investigations and also reviews, and it had learned many hard lessons as a company from those accidents.

What have you seen, though, in terms of the moves that were promised by both the FAA and Boeing? Have they been put into place? Have there been some improvement since those tragedies?

HALL: Oh, I think not. I think that that's why I'm suggesting that the new secretary give the FAA a kick in the pants with an independent commission to look at its responsibilities. As you know, during those hearings, the FAA in many cases said they didn't have the technical ability to provide the oversight.

Well, we need to look at the manning at the FAA, the type of qualifications, and be sure the American people have individuals, inspectors in place that can be sure that the certification process is what it is. It's a certification process to guarantee the safety of flight.

HILL: When we look at what happened with this particular flight, some of that video, the video that was taken of the engine on fire as this plane is still flying, missing its casings there -- apologies if that's not the correct term, but missing these parts. How helpful is that for investigators as they try to determine exactly what happened?

HALL: Well, I think it will be helpful, but it was certainly chilling. I've been in this area with the NTSB for several decades, and I guess that's the most chilling piece of video I've ever seen in aviation safety issue.

HILL: That's really saying something.

HALL: Well, I'm sure you looked at the video. It gave me chills and so I think all Americans -- what we need to look at, Erica, is we're going to have more and more things in the sky. You know, we're all familiar with satellites and the number of satellites that are up there.

But we're going to have -- with drones and increased aviation and increased types of rotorcraft, we're going to have lots of aviation so people on the ground need to be concerned about what's in the air above them and who is responsible for the safety, and that's the Federal Aviation Administration.

HILL: Well, to that point, in terms of -- I mean, it is again -- it is remarkable on two fronts that this plane, that they were able to turn around and land it safely, that there were no injuries on board, and also that there were no injuries on the ground.

[16:10:13]

When we see these giant pieces of that plane, in addition to the videos, of them falling from the sky, I mean, to me it also raises the question, you talk about how chilling it is to see that engine from inside the plane as it's still -- as it's still moving. The fact that these pieces would fall off in this way.

It's one thing to hear about an engine failure, but it seems that when we hear the engine failed and then it literally started splitting into pieces falling to the ground, that seems -- I mean, obviously this is your area of expertise. I don't remember ever hearing of something like that, that the parts are literally just flying off.

HALL: Well, this is, I think, the most dramatic case. But in the -- since 2016, go to your point about the use of this aircraft, there have been eight similar incidents that have occurred in the United States and there are recommendations that were made by the NTSB in 2017 to the FAA that still remain open today. So as I say, FAA has been a sluggish regulator.

We need a regulator that's going to be on top of the changing dynamics and technology because these were -- a lot of this is new large engines with more thrust, able to carry more people and smaller -- two engines rather than three or four. So area of safety in this regard is only going to increase as we see aviation return to full capacity in the United States.

HILL: So, to that point, how concerned should someone be about getting on a plane? Because overall, you know, we talk about this all the time, but overall it's safer to fly in many cases if we're looking at statistics than it is to get in a car.

HALL: Well, it's very safe but let's face it, as taxpayers and people that pay the airline tax, we're paying for that safety. And we need -- when there are cracks in the system and they're not being addressed, Congress, our representatives, the secretary of Transportation, have an obligation to protect the American people.

HILL: Jim Hall, really appreciate you joining us this afternoon. Thank you for your insight and for your expertise. Appreciate it.

HALL: Thank you, Erica.

HILL: Well, the severe winter weather may be gone in Texas, but the crisis there is far from over. We are going to take you live to the Lone Star State where residents are once again lining up for water.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:16:53]

HILL: In Texas, temperatures are on the rise. In that area things are improving, but overall the state remains very much in the middle of a crisis. Many Texans look at this waiting in long lines just to get drinking water.

CNN's Natasha Chen is in Houston. She's at a bottled water distribution event.

Natasha, the city there, as I understand it, just lifting the boil water advisory. What more do we know about that? I mean, that's a fairly significant step.

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erica, there are improvements happening all the time. But you still see so many -- we've been seeing cars coming through past us nonstop since early this afternoon. There is still going to be a need for bottled water.

And I can show you this push alert that I actually got on my phone. It's saying that effective immediately, Houston's main water system has lifted its boil water notice and asking people to flush their water system by running cold water faucets for at least a minute. Making and discarding several batches of ice and running water softeners through a regeneration cycle.

Now I spoke to the Houston mayor who has been here volunteering. He says that more than two million bottles of water have been given out across the city in the last couple of days. But he also talked to me about the key in this still being a necessity even after the boil water notice has been lifted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR SYLVESTER TURNER (D), HOUSTON: We're starting to turn the corner a little bit. But the reality is, as you can see, there are a lot of people that are in need of water and I was thinking just this morning, even once the boil water notice is lifted, because people have -- there are so many busted pipes, they will still need water, you know, until they get their homes repaired.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN: More than 14 million Texans are experiencing water service disruption. So a lot of people don't have running water and the people in Houston here, we know a thousand -- several thousands have called into the city's hotline reporting busted pipes. And one of the problems right now is that there is a shortage of plumbers. There is a shortage of supplies to make those repairs.

So fixing those busted pipes could take quite some time and that's how, you know, we learned the one experience of homeowners we met yesterday, they've been hauling water from their neighbor's house four or five times a day just to flush toilets and to wash dishes. And given the state of -- you know, the shortage of plumbers that could be the case for quite some time, Erica.

HILL: Yes. It makes you appreciate good neighbors more than ever. Boy, still a very tough situation there.

Natasha Chen, thank you so much.

Up next, a big week on Capitol Hill as President Biden's pick for attorney general prepares to face senators at his confirmation hearing. You'll hear what Merrick Garland is expected to say in his opening statement next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:24:11]

HILL: In less than 24 hours, Merrick Garland will begin his confirmation hearings. Of course, he was denied that opportunity when he was nominated for Supreme Court justice. So nearly five years later, he'll get that opportunity as part of his nomination for U.S. attorney general under President Joe Biden.

His opening statement, in it, in his opening statement, Garland plans to talk about where he sees this position going, and also will touch a little bit on the country.

CNN's Suzanne Malveaux was live for us on Capitol hill. She has more of that statement which was released.

Suzanne, what can we expect?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erica, we know that the judge is known for his fair, his evenhandedness, and he really goes into this hearing with a great deal of bipartisan support. It is very likely and expected that he will be confirmed as attorney general, but not first without some tough questions coming his way.

[16:25:01]

It is not surprising that in his opening statements he talks about the importance of the independence of the Justice Department, the integrity of the Justice Department. And especially during this time of racial reckoning, if you will, he hearkens back and puts it into historical context saying one of the first jobs of the Justice Department and the attorney general was to protect the voting rights of African-Americans from the Klan that was essentially threatening them with violence.

And so he'll talk about this and he'll say, "150 years after the department's founding, badly extremist attacks on our democratic institutions also remain central to its mission. If confirmed, I will supervised the prosecution of white supremacists and others who stormed the Capitol on January 6, a heinous attack that sought to disrupt a cornerstone of our democracy, the peaceful transition -- transfer of power to a newly elected government."

Erica, also the big question Democrats and Republicans will want to know is what does he do when it comes to the former President Trump. Does he move forward with an investigation, and perhaps even pressing criminal charges against Trump as McConnell had suggested that that was the proper venue to do so.

The other side as well, Republicans will want to ask him about some of those hot button issues. The investigations regarding Democrats, the New York Governor Cuomo and his role in terms of reporting the deaths, the COVID deaths out of nursing homes. And then also the president's son Hunter Biden. What was his role in terms of tax issues or alleged money laundering? These are the kinds of things that Republicans are going to be asking of him.

Democrats looking to see someone who is impartial and that will depoliticize the Justice Department that we had seen in the last four years, Erica.

HILL: We'll be watching for all of that. Before I let you go, Suzanne, where do we stand in terms of the status of this now long-awaited COVID relief bill?

MALVEAUX: COVID relief is going to happen. Tomorrow we're going to actually see the House Budget Committee take it up, mark it up. It's a huge, massive COVID relief bill. It will then kick forward to the full House for a vote. Potentially by the end of the week it will go back and forth, House and Senate. But look for the date March 14th. That's the hope that they get it to the president's desk before those employment benefits that millions of Americans are depending on expire -- Erica.

HILL: Suzanne Malveaux, with the latest for us. Suzanne, thank you.

Let's dig in a little deeper. Joining me now former adviser to four presidents and CNN senior political analyst David Gergen is with us, along with staff writer with the "New Yorker" and CNN global affairs analyst, Susan Glasser.

Good to see both of you. David, as we look at this, and we just learned from Suzanne, in terms of what is expected in Merrick Garland's opening statement, you know, he talks about his experience with the Oklahoma City bombing. The fact, too, that he has said that he will supervise the prosecution of white supremacists.

The fact that he is simply acknowledging white supremacy is a big departure, also talking about the fact that there is not equal justice in this country, another big departure from what we've just seen under Attorney General Bill Barr.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's a very significant set of steps back to normality in the Justice Department. And just as we've seen with President Biden, he stayed above the fray on the trial, the impeachment trial here in the last couple of weeks. I think he very intentionally did not want to be seen as part of the decision- making process. And now he's doing the same thing with Garland and the Justice Department.

He's saying essentially this is the nation's Justice Department, it's not my Justice Department. And I think he's very anxious especially on these racial issues when there is so much distrust in minority communities about how the government has handled these issues, how the police have been handled.

It's extremely important to have someone like Garland. I think they're fortunate to have him despite the lingering anger in the Democratic Party about the way Garland was in effect denied a seat. And Democrats continue to believe that the Republicans stole the seat from them and they're still very angry about that.

HILL: They are, which is why there is a lot being made, Susan, of the fact -- this photo alone, right, that we will see, these pictures that we will see of Merrick Garland in that nomination hearing sitting there. That's an important moment in and of itself.

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I do think it's very politically resonant. Certainly tomorrow in Washington that's what people will be thinking of. You know, that this is a hearing that came many years after the fact for Merrick Garland who, of course, was President Obama's choice to serve on the Supreme Court and in many ways I think it was a precursor of the bare-knuckle politics of the Trump era.

And I think for many Democrats it remains a symbol of the lengths to which Mitch McConnell, then the Senate majority leader now the minority leader, was willing to go to basically say white makes right in Washington.

[16:30:00]

And I think there's a lot of people who view that as the prerequisite for some of the norm (ph) shattering of the Trump years, right. Donald Trump, without Mitch McConnell, would have just been a guy shouting at the T.V.

And so, I think the Merrick Garland case has assumed, really, an enormous importance in the recent history of our politics.

HILL: You know, I want to get your take, too, in what we saw, in terms of foreign affairs. President Biden, excuse me, announcing this week, America is back, saying that allies could trust America again, after four years of the last administration. And, Susan, just the fact that Biden would say that is remarkable. An American President telling our allies, you can trust us.

So, what does that tell you -- what does he have to do, I would say, actually, to prove that? What do we need to see?

GLASSER: Well, that's right. I think, in some ways, right, the, sort of, good words are that -- are the easy part here. You know, just as -- when Obama came in after unpopular George W. Bush in Europe, same thing with Joe Biden. And especially our European allies, very strained relations with Donald Trump. The America first president withdrew from multilateral accords. He disdained allies and seemed to relish dealing with adversaries.

So, in that sense, Biden has done all of the things you might expect to say, very quickly out of the gates, no, this is a return to a much more normal, both Republican or Democratic, foreign policy. The challenge is that it's not going to be that easy for people to believe. Well, why should I make a deal with the United States if there's just going to be a change in two years or in four years in our foreign policy again?

So, for example, Biden has said he wants to rejoin the Iran nuclear deal. Right now, there is a lot of dancing around with the Iranians on just who needs to take the first step there. But there's a serious question as to how much anyone wants to risk a deal with the United States right now.

HILL: You know, David, to that point, I mean, how much -- how concerning, to allies, is the uncertainty in the United States? Not only what we've seen over the last four years, but, really, just even what we're seeing over here on the ground play out, I mean in terms of domestic issues. Look at Texas.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We've lost so much ground as a nation. Susan was really underscoring that, in terms of the trust in America's leadership. The faith that we're a reliable partner. And I think that it's one of the most important things on Biden's agenda.

And, notably, Erica, he didn't say, you can trust us. He said, I'm -- I want to earn your trust. He knows that we -- that we're in the hole on this. And he's -- so, he's moved smartly, you know, going back into Paris which was really important on the environmental front. Rejoining the World Health Organization. Very important on the pandemic front. You know, saying we want to restart talks with Iran. Very important international relations. And we've -- he's also agreed to a five-year extension with a nuclear agreement with the Russians. So, all of that is positive.

But the world has changed since he was vice president. For one thing, we went backwards with Trump, in terms of our relationship with our allies. But very, very importantly, you know, China has become a much more player -- important player in Europe than it was when it -- when Joe Biden was vice president.

The goods trading in Eur -- in the E.U. is now bigger with China than it is with the United States. That's a big, big change. So, what you've got -- what we've got now is even though -- even as Joe Biden reaches out his hand, Macron, the leader of the French, is arguing for what he calls strategic autonomy. He wants to have Europe, especially France, much -- rely much more on itself than on the United States as a partner.

Similarly, Merkel, Chancellor Merkel, who is getting ready to step down. But she's made it clear, on a couple of occasions, including this past week, that Germany wants to broaden and its relationships. And Germany is looking to the Pacific as -- more, too.

So, this is not going to be a quick switch off thing -- switch a light back on. It's going to require a lot of work over time. And Susan is -- really points to something important about whether the president can deliver for the long term. Joe Biden speaks the -- for Joe Biden. But can -- does he speak for the United States, when he makes agreements? And I think that is very much in question right now. HILL: Before we let you go, we've seen a number of examples this week

of a crisis in leadership, here at home, whether it's in Texas, in California. Right here in New York State, there are some real questions about accountability.

David, how much do you think partisanship has, perhaps, led to what feels like a lack of accountability at multiple levels, which has allowed many leaders to escape responsibility?

GERGEN: Well, it's -- I think -- there's -- certainly, ideology has played a role in this. Texas has prided itself of being very individualistic and not relying on the U.S. government, keeping the U.S. government the hell out of Texas.

[16:35:02]

GERGEN: And, yet, it turns out they weren't well prepared for this set of events. They -- you know, there were signs that this was going to happen. Other states had prepared themselves. Texas, relying on this -- its ideology, refused to invest the kind of money that would have prevented and headed off this before it ever occurred. And I think that's true, as you look into other states as well.

HILL: Susan Glasser, David Gergen, always good to have you both with us.

GERGEN: Thank you, Erica.

HILL: The U.S. is closing in on half a million COVID-19 deaths. This, as Dr. Fauci says masks, likely here, for some time to come. We'll discuss the latest on COVID next. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: The U.S. approaching half a million COVID-19-related deaths. It is a sobering prospect. All of this as so many are wondering just when the country could return to some kind of normalcy, some kind of post- pandemic normalcy.

[16:40:06]

HILL: Dr. Anthony Fauci, this morning, telling my colleague, Dana Bash, that it's possible Americans will still be wearing masks in 2022 to protect against the virus.

Let's discuss this and more with CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner, professor of medicine and surgery at George Washington University; and Dr. William Schaffner, a professor at Vanderbilt University Medical Center's divisious -- Division, rather, of Infectious Diseases. It's great to see both of you.

You know, Dr. Schaffner, as we look at this, you know, nearly half a million deaths, it is a terrible benchmark. That said, the overall numbers are definitely showing signs of improvement. New cases, hospitalizations, even daily-reported deaths dropping. So, is it your sense, Dr. Schaffner, this is the end of maybe that post-holiday surge we've talked so much about or are we actually getting a handle on things?

DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, PROFESSOR, DIVISION OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Actually, Erica, I think we are starting to get a handle on things. This is probably a combination of a number of things. The surge is diminishing.

But, also, more and more people have been infected with this virus, even without symptoms or very mild symptoms. So, we may be developing some degree of herd immunity. And then, of course, we are starting to vaccinate and that's making a contribution. So, perhaps, all of those things together. We're at the beginning of the end, I hope, or getting close to it.

HILL: As we look at what is coming down the pike, right, more and more people -- we know the demand is there for the vaccine, in many cases. The supply has not quite kept up. Teachers are still a major focus, which Dr. Fauci touched on this morning. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: One of the things that comes up is that we'll be doing more and more of -- and I think these are things that are important to put into the mix of the consideration. Is that teachers, clearly, should be prioritized among those essential personnel to get vaccinated. I don't believe that it should be a sine qua non. That if they're not vaccinated, they should not go back. I believe we should prioritize them and get as many vaccinated as we possibly can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Dr. Reiner, you and I have talked about teacher vaccinations.

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Yes.

HILL: Do you agree with Dr. Fauci that they should absolutely be prioritized, but they don't have to, necessarily, all be vaccinated to be back in the building?

REINER: Yes. Hi, Erica. Look, I think there's a difference between prioritizing teachers and proactively vaccinating teachers. So, I was vaccinated on the second day that vaccines were available in the United States. Because -- not just because I was prioritized, but because we were proactively vaccinating health care workers.

So, if we want our -- to protect our teachers and we want to get schools open this calendar year, let's just not prioritize them and then throw them into the -- you know, the whole situation of having to find open slots. Let's proactively vaccinate them.

And I think the ideal solution is to dedicate the first four million doses of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, which will likely be approved at the end of next week, and proactively take those single-shot vaccines and give it to every teacher who wants it.

HILL: What do you think the reality is of that happening? REINER: I mean, I think it can happen. I think we need to have the

political will to do that. If we want to open schools, we have to face the facts that all of the reassuring data that states that transmission in schools is low, was acquired in environment without variants.

And if we're worried about variants and the increased transmissibility of the variants, then let's maximally protect the teachers. And the way to do that is to vaccinate them, understanding that children won't be able to be vaccinated until the fall. So, let's vaccinate the teachers now.

HILL: So, in terms of children, you know, this has come up more and more, that they won't -- we don't know enough, right. The vaccine isn't even available to kids yet. There are some trials underway involving children, Dr. Schaffner. But the fact that children will not be vaccinated, likely even by the fall, should that be a concern for parents and for staff in schools, or, no, because of the way kids transmit the virus?

SCHAFFNER: Well, it's one thing to -- Erica, to tell people that children, particularly younger children, are not big transmitters. It's quite another thing to relieve everyone's anxiety. And I'm with Dr. Reiner. I think all adults, actually beyond the teachers, who have anything to do with our -- with school children, ought to be vaccinated as quickly as possible. The teachers, the administrators, the custodians, the people who work in food service, the school bus drivers. Let's vaccinate them all.

And then, when vaccine does become available for children, I would think, toward the end of the summer I would hope, let's start vaccinating them, too.

[16:45:02]

SCHAFFNER: But, in the meantime, we will hit the anxiety that's out there among all the teachers and the parents as well as reducing actual transmission.

HILL: You know, you mentioned the variants, Dr. Reiner. In New York today, New York State reporting the first case of the variant first detected in South Africa. How concerned are you about these different areas? I mean, the reality is we're not doing enough sequencing, right.

And we haven't from the beginning, as we've been told here in the United States. So, there are likely -- there's likely more than one case of this variant in New York State. How concerned should we be, at this point, as they're spreading more easily?

REINER: Well, you know, the truth is that even though the United States haven't had as many apparent cases of these variants, they have been here, almost certainly, for months. But if you look around the world, where these particular variants are endemic, like the United Kingdom and South Africa, they are seeing the same dramatic declines in cases as we are seeing in the United States. And those are in places enriched with these variants.

So, I'm not convinced that the U.S. is destined to see another surge from these variants. Because all of the mitigation strategies, which appear to be working. And, as Dr. Schaffner said, the fact that so many people in this country have probably been asymptomatically exposed to this virus, we started to see the outer reaches, perhaps, of some, you know, community or herd immunity. I'm not sure we're going to see or we're destined to see a surge from these variants.

So, we need to watch these. We need to surveil for these variants. We need to do more genomic sequencing. But I think it's not a destiny that we're -- we will certainly face, necessarily.

HILL: I will happily take that assessment. Drs. Jonathan Reiner and William Schaffner, always good to have you both with us. Thank you so much.

REINER: Thank you.

SCHAFFNER: Thank you, Erica.

HILL: Just ahead, a wealthy GOP donor gave more than $2 million for voter fraud investigations. Well, now, he says he wants his money back. That's next. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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HILL: Believing conspiracy theories about voter fraud can be a pretty expensive mistake. According to "The Washington Post," a wealthy man from North Carolina wanted former President Trump to win the election so badly he actually forked over $2 million to a group that promised to reveal all sorts of fraud. Well, now he wants his money back. Here's CNN's Randi Kaye.

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JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Joe Biden is on a trajectory to pass the president, as soon as more votes come in.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As victory appeared to be slipping away from Donald Trump post-Election Day, a wealthy conservative donor from North Carolina devised a plan to find out if the election was legitimate. So, Fred Eshelman reached out to Texas- based True the Vote, which promises on its Web site to protect election integrity. After a brief 20-minute phone call on November 5th, Eshelman decided to donate. According to court documents, Eshelman said by phone, I'm in for 2, as in $2 million.

In the hours after Eshelman's millions were wired to True the Vote, Catherine Engelbrecht, the group's founder, issued a press release promising significant tangible evidence that numerous illegal ballots have been cast and counted in the 2020 general election. And announced a fund, in excess of $1 million, to incentivize whistleblowers as Mr. Eshelman had wanted. (on camera): But as time went on, after Eshelman donated yet another $500,000, he was hardly impressed with the group's progress. He's now suing True the Vote and demanding his money back, saying, in the lawsuit, that money was donated conditionally, based on promises made by True the Vote that it would investigate, litigate, and expose suspected illegal balloting and fraud.

(voice-over): In a statement, Eshelman told us, quote, "True the Vote failed, in every way, to make use of my directed donation to investigate and either prove or disprove election fraud, as agreed upon, and failed to respond to my requests for information about how the funds were spent."

But James Bopp, the lawyer representing True the Vote, tells me that Eshelman is playing the innocent babe in the woods. Adding, there is nothing in all the emails, text messages and documents that shows he ever suggested he made this a conditional gift.

In True the Vote's response to the lawsuit filed in court, the group also says there was no discussion that Eshelman could claim his gift back. Still, Eshelman claims in his lawsuit that by November 13th, Bopp, the group's attorney, had only filed cookie-cutter lawsuits, making vague allegations of fraud, unsupported by any evidence in four states.

CATHERINE ENGELBRECHT, FOUNDER, TRUE THE VOTE: We're doing a variety of things in Georgia. But our focus, at the moment, is a preemptive challenge of just over 364,000 voters who appear to be ineligible.

KAYE: Meanwhile, less than a week after suing Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, accusing the states which Biden won of counting illegal votes, True the Vote dropped its lawsuits. Court records show by November 17th, Eshelman emailed the group's founder, asking for an accounting of all the money spent and a refund of what was left. When he says the group didn't comply, Eshelman's lawyer sent a final letter on November 23rd, demanding the return of $2 million.

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KAYE: Eshelman hasn't received a penny of his money back. And that tangible evidence the group promised existed that could prove voter fraud, that has never come to light either.

Randi Kaye, CNN, Palm Beach County, Florida.

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HILL: Tonight, Stanley Tucci is traveling to city of togas and gladiators, in search of some perfect pasta and pretty much everything else that's amazing in Italy. It's your chance to experience Rome like never before. Tune in tonight for the new CNN original series, "Stanley Tucci: Searching for Italy," 9:00 Eastern, right here on CNN.

Still to come, we are turning back to our top story. The airliner disaster that almost was. Brand new images just into CNN, that and much more. Stay with us. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. [17:56:00]

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