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Midair Engine Failure On Boeing Jet; Millions Of Texans Without Safe Water; Over 200,000 Without Power In Five States; Harsh Weather Causes Backlog In Inoculations; Nearly A Third Of Patients Could Be COVID-19 Long Haulers; Pro-Democracy Protests Continue After Myanmar Coup; Examining The Use Of "Secondary" Sanctions; The Louvre Quiet Except For Workers; Naomi Osaka Wins 2021 Australian Open. Aired 12- 12:30a ET
Aired February 21, 2021 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello and welcome to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. I'm Michael Holmes. Thanks for your company.
Coming up here on CNN NEWSROOM, debris dropping from the sky. A Boeing 777 carrying more than 200 passengers experiences engine failure. The dramatic images, the harrowing stories coming up.
Despite the bitter cold easing in Texas, access to clean water still very much a problem as anger mounts over what many say was a crisis just waiting to happen.
And protests in Myanmar turn deadly again. Still, crowds fill the streets for three weeks running.
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HOLMES: U.S. federal investigators are looking into a terrifying incident in the skies over Colorado. It could have been much worse. Officials say a United Airlines jet suffered an explosive right engine failure shortly after takeoff Saturday. You can see the result there.
The Boeing 777-200 returning to Denver Regional International Airport and thankfully landing safely. Debris from the plane raining down on homes, yards and soccer fields in suburban neighborhoods.
Incredibly, officials say, no one was hurt on the ground or in the air. Here's the mayday call from the pilots, telling air traffic controllers what had happened.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mayday, mayday, united 28 -- united 328, heavy mayday, mayday, aircraft --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 320, again. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Denver departure united 328, heavy mayday, aircraft
just experienced an engine failure. Need return immediately.
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HOLMES: CNN's Lucy Kafanov is on the ground covering the story for us. She filed this update a short time ago.
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LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So we are in Broomfield, Colorado. This was the area most impacted by the debris raining down from United Flight 328, the Boeing 777 that took off from Denver's International Airport. It was bound for Honolulu but minutes after takeoff, the pilots reported a problem with the right engine.
They then turned around and, as they were doing that flying over this area, residents, eyewitnesses on the ground reported hearing the sound of an explosion. One eyewitness described it as a sonic boom and that's when they saw black smoke coming from the plane and pieces of metal raining down.
Just to give you a sense of the scope of the debris field, I mean, down the block behind this cop car is a massive soccer field. There's a dog park, a lot of folks out and about earlier in the day, playing soccer, walking their dogs, enjoying the nicer weather that Denver had earlier in the afternoon.
All of that disrupted by this incredible event. The Broomfield police said they used a massive amount of police tape to section off these areas because, anywhere you go here, you can find pieces of debris. They're still urging residents to report those pieces. They're saying you shouldn't touch that, get the authorities involved.
And a miracle that no one was hurt, not any of the 241 people on board that craft nor any of the residents here on the streets of Colorado -- Lucy Kafanov, CNN, Broomfield, Colorado.
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HOLMES: Let's hear from one of those witnesses on the ground. This man was outside enjoying the day when United Airlines came into view.
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KIERAN CAIN, WITNESS: I was playing with our two kids at the local elementary school on the basketball court, just having fun. An airplane was flying really high overhead. And basically what a sounded like a sonic boom made everybody look up.
As we did, we could see there was a giant black cloud of smoke high up in the sky immediately followed by, you know, what looked like pieces of the aircraft really just coming off. And basically a shower of things that were falling out of the sky, you know.
So immediately you could see stuff wafting down, some pieces bigger than others. It was hard to get a sense of how big the things were because it was so up. But after a while they started to get closer and closer to the ground.
You could really see sort of giant -- what looked like -- one big one in particular -- that was a giant O, metal ring plummeting to the ground.
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CAIN: Unbelievably, the plane kept going on its own trajectory. But, yes, basically just all of this stuff really started showering down on the neighborhood.
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HOLMES: CNN safety analyst David Soucie joins me from Pensacola Beach, Florida, he's a former FAA safety inspector and author of "Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 and Safer Skies."
Good to see you.
How unusual is it for an engine to break up in the way it did?
DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Extremely unusual. I've never investigated anything or heard of anything, at least in the United States, that caused that. It's very, very rare. Now I've seen where, like, a door came off or a piece came off or something like that but never seen an inflight failure of this significance.
HOLMES: What are investigators going to be looking for?
What links to your mind when you see not just the debris but the video we're showing now of the engine itself?
What does it tell you?
SOUCIE: As you can see, it's not just standing still, it's not just staying in one place. It's rotating. It's off balance. You can see that. So I'd be looking to see if the fan blades had come off the engine.
Does any of the debris on the ground have burn marks or does it have explosion or impact marks that would tell us whether it was an explosion or not?
The eyewitness said it sounded like a sonic boom, so the only thing that that noise could come from that aircraft in a normal sense would be a compressor stall. That happens when something hampers to flow into the engine or slows it.
At that point it can slow down to a significant amount where it's not pushing the compression out the back anymore. It starts overpowering itself and comes out the front of the engine.
That's common when you go to -- when you're landing an aircraft. Sometimes the compressor stalls will happen when you put on the thrust reversers and you feel the thrust coming back on the airplane.
But that's on the ground and this was in the air, of course. So that's the first thing I'd be looking for is the fan blades, see if they're intact and then looking at the debris to see if there's any fire or evidence of explosion there.
But I really don't think they'll find that. What I think they will find is what I think they will find is that compressor stall occurred. It can happen from a flock of birds, from a lot of different things to get in the intake of the aircraft or the engine. At that point, that Pratt Whitney engine will just kick back at you and it would be pretty severe when it does.
HOLMES: It was interesting to see the pilots' union make the point that no United pilots were furloughed over the last year. It points to retention of experience, which would be pretty important at times like this.
What would have been the challenge for the pilots, the changes how the aircraft behaved immediately and getting it back on the ground?
SOUCIE: I think the first thing, they handled it right, they called mayday immediately, which is what has to happen. They did that to clear the skies, make sure they don't get in the way of any other aircraft in the area. They weren't very high. They hadn't been flying very long. They were still in the exit path from the airport.
So they did the right thing by clearing the airway. Next is extinguishing any fires. Obviously from the videos, you see there is fire. Where that fire is, is really interesting to me, because it appears to be coming from right behind in what we call the intermediate stage or the intermediate compressor stage of the engine.
That particular area, it's not a high pressure. It's a medium pressure. It's not a high pressure. But to have a failure there and have flames come out of there is very, very rare. Again, the pilot would have to be faced with how to extinguish that.
It's the challenge, when the cowling and the cells have come off the engine because it's designed, if there's a fire in the engine and you pull the fire bottles, it's going to try to extinguish the fire around the engine. But if the cells aren't there, it doesn't contain all the fire retardant, so it doesn't work very well. It's not effective.
So the fire continues to burn because there's nothing encapsulating it. All that stuff has been torn off and all that, by the way, is attached to that big ring you saw in the front. That's the inlet. If that comes off, that's pretty much what attaches to all the cowlings. If that major piece comes off, it's going to take the cowling with it.
HOLMES: Some good flying and fortunately a good outcome. CNN safety analysis David Soucie, good to see you. Thanks, David.
SOUCIE: You, too. Thank you.
HOLMES: Now to the state of Texas where that deep freeze is beginning to thaw. But the crisis is ongoing. Water still a big problem at this hour. The storm disrupted over 1,000 public water systems. More than 14 million people were without running water on Saturday.
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HOLMES: Electricity, though, has been mostly restored for most Texans. On Saturday night more than 200 customers were still without power across five states, including Texas.
Federal resources are headed to Texas as thousands of National Guard troops are helping get food and water into the state. CNN's Omar Jimenez has more from Austin.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The water's not even bubbling.
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The lights may be on but across parts of Texas the water isn't. Drinking water still needed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's a panic mode that we didn't have enough drinking water. We would love showers but we'll get that when we get our water turned back on.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): Texans waiting in long lines just to pick up cases of water, with nearly half the state under boil water advisories.
MAYOR STEVE ADLER (D-TX), AUSTIN: This is a community of people that are scared and upset and angry. We're eventually going to need some better answers. But right now we're just trying to get water to our neighbors.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): But it's not just drinking water. Some residents can't even flush the toilet without melting snow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We relocated back to our house, five adults and two dogs, and we started harvesting snow because we also lost water at that point. Harvesting snow for toilet water.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): That lack of water making it difficult for those suffering from kidney failure. Some dialysis clinics have been forced to temporarily close, meaning patients have to go to the hospital to keep their kidneys from shutting down.
DR. PAUL NADER, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS DELL MEDICAL SCHOOL: So we've had double, sometimes triple coverages of physicians at all the hospitals. We cover many hospitals in Austin.
Ordinarily we finish most of our dialysis between about 8:00 and 5:00 or 6:00 at night for a regular day. We were working 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning, dialyzing patients in the hospital.
JIANG (voice-over): President Joe Biden approving a major disaster declaration for Texas, freeing up more help from FEMA. REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): You know, when disaster strikes,
this is not just an issue for Texans. This is an issue for our entire country. Disasters don't strike everyone equally.
When you already have so many families in the state and across the country that are on the brink, that can't even afford an emergency to begin with, when you have a disaster like this, it can just set people back for years.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): As residents wait for the water and power to come back, some still forced to use their cars for warmth. Others, if they're lucky, find shelter in a hotel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guests, frankly, it's been the equivalent of camping indoors.
JIMENEZ: And moving forward, officials here are going to start looking at what exactly went wrong over this past week. Among what they're investigating is that many customers here in Texas reported getting extremely high power bills, even amid this catastrophe.
So Texas officials are investigating that.
On the water front, when could we see the water come back to Texas?
Well, in some places, we're well on our way. In Houston, for example, they've reached that minimum threshold for water pressure. Here in Austin, officials are optimistic they can get water citywide by the end of the weekend -- Omar Jimenez, CNN, Austin, Texas.
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HOLMES: Najmedin Meshkati is a professor of civil and environmental engineering at the University of Southern California. He joins me now.
It's such an important issue. There seem to be among many in power in Texas a sense of almost, wow, this was unexpected, didn't see this coming. But the fact is, experts like yourself argue, it was entirely predictable.
It's just the reality wasn't accepted and precautions weren't taken, correct?
NAJMEDIN MESHKATI, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA: Absolutely. There was another similar situation in 2011. Two major reports came out about that, one, the utilities for the weatherization of their system, the report came by Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, FERC, which is a federal agency.
Also there is a little bit known agency called NERC, North American Electric Reliability Corporation. I think they set it and made many recommendation but unfortunately the recommendations were not heeded.
HOLMES: The focus has rightly been on impacts in Texas because that's where the main effect was. But there were blackouts in Oklahoma and Mississippi, several other states. Incredibly, a third of the country's oil production stopped. Drinking water systems in more than one state knocked offline.
It seems the foundations of the country's infrastructure are kind of shaking a bit with climate-related extremes.
So what to do about that?
MESHKATI: As you said, we are facing an uncharted water of these extreme events primarily because of climate change in this context.
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MESHKATI: And this is what we need to be very proactive and what I say in my classes, we need to think about unthinkable and being proactive, meaning that if you have seen what has happened in Texas or during even summer in California, which we faced massive blackouts here last summer, the demand is going up.
Of course the temperature in winter goes down, in summer the demand goes up. And then at the same time, unfortunately, some of our facility that are not ready for that, the supply goes down. So we need to shut down some power plants. The grid is not working.
And we see a widening gap over here. Demand is up, supply is down and if we don't address this issue, this gap is going to be increasing and it's going to be more difficult for us.
HOLMES: It's not like there hasn't been fair warning for years -- decades, really -- about changing weather and the potential consequences.
Is it fair to say that the U.S. seems to be forever treating symptoms and not causes?
MESHKATI: You are absolutely right. In fact, this issue of being proactive and the utilities in the United States being able to foresee and some understand the hazards that they're dealing with, we have a similar situation unfortunately that happened in Japan almost 10 years ago vis-a-vis Fukushima, which belonged to one utility and another nuclear plant that survived the tsunami.
This is exactly because Oragaba's owner utility Tohoku was proactive. They raised their defenses and learned from the lessons and hazards, other tsunamis they had. However, Tepco Fukushima, they didn't learn. That's why you see the result.
HOLMES: Quickly, if you will, critics say the whole system in the U.S. was engineered, designed to sort of benefit the generators than the customers and the people itself.
What would you like to see done going forward so stuff like this doesn't happen again?
Does there need to be systemic changes to how it's all run in this country?
MESHKATI: I would suggest that we need to do soul searching from the utility themselves. They need to realize that, for example, PG&E in California, all the utilities in Texas, they missed the boat. They need to do soul searching and they need to come together and develop some proactive -- and again I emphasize that.
Please be proactive. The business as usual is gone. You're facing a new normal because of the climate change.
HOLMES: Professor, thank you so much. Appreciate your expertise on this.
MESHKATI: Pleasure, sir. Thank you.
HOLMES: Some countries are ahead of schedule when it comes to vaccinations. Others have yet to start. We'll bring you up to speed on the situation in the U.S. and around the world.
Also, Dr. Sanjay Gupta talks to two people still dealing with COVID-19 symptoms months after they tested positive. And they are far from alone. We'll have the details coming up.
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HOLMES: Welcome back.
Hospitalizations from COVID-19 are continuing to drop in the U.S. New data showing they're now at the lowest level since early November. That's when cases and deaths were picking right up before the holidays.
Now that's not the only bit of the doubt good news out of the U.S. A new study from the Mayo Clinic shows coronavirus vaccines may actually prevent infection, not just symptoms. But on the ground, many Americans are having trouble getting those shots partly because of extreme weather. CNN's Polo Sandoval reports.
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POLO SANDOVAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just a month after reaching 400,000 confirmed COVID-19 deaths, the U.S. is closing in on half a million people dead from the virus.
Yes, the latest numbers do show a continuing five-week decline in the nation's new cases as well as decline in hospitalizations and deaths. But there's a caveat. The CDC warning it's unclear how much the decrease is due to recent weather closing some testing sites.
And there's a sharp spike in cases at the University of Maryland. School officials are ordering all students living to sequester in place until next Saturday.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's pretty much expected when you see that the fact that students are returning back to campus.
SANDOVAL (voice-over): Despite the positive signs elsewhere, the director of the University of Washington's Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation thinks we may not achieve herd immunity until next winter. This despite recent reports suggesting we may get there next month.
DR. CHRISTOPHER MURRAY, INSTITUTE FOR HEALTH METRICS AND EVALUATION: We know COVID's really seasonal. So when the next winter rolls around, we need to have a much higher level of protection to stop COVID in its tracks than we're likely to achieve.
SANDOVAL (voice-over): This week weather-related shipping delays are fueling discussions about whether or not the administering of second doses should be delayed, allowing for more first-round shots for Americans.
The White House maintains that is still too risky, given the data about the vaccines. Dr. Paul Offit told CNN's Jake Tapper yesterday he agrees.
DR. PAUL OFFIT, U.S. FDA VACCINE ADVISER: It is clear that this is a two-dose vaccine that you're going to have longer, better, more complete immunity with that second dose.
And I worry, if people wait a long time for that second dose, I'm not saying you can't wait, say, six weeks between dose one and dose two. But if you're waiting months and months, you're going to have this false notion that you're protected.
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SANDOVAL (voice-over): Many states getting vaccination efforts back on track. In Maryland officials are using a mobile vaccination unit to make up for lost ground. In the city of Minneapolis, health officials are making additional efforts, such as partnering with local organizations and churches to reach communities hardest hit by pandemic.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The best thing I can say to anyone is, if it's available, take it and just pray that it works for you and you stay safe.
SANDOVAL (voice-over): Along with vaccinations, the U.S. needs to prioritize testing, thinks Kathleen Sebelius. She is a former head of Health and Human Services.
KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, FORMER DIRECTOR, HHS: Focus on both testing that we need to identify who has the disease and then the serology tests that will tell us more about antibodies and what kind of variant is circulating. But we need both tests and we need them very quickly.
SANDOVAL (voice-over): Polo Sandoval, CNN, New York.
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Let's take a look around the world now.
Palestinian officials say Gaza will begin its vaccine rollout on Sunday after finally receiving its first shipment. Israel had taken days to approve the transfer of these doses through its border to the territory, which is run by Hamas.
Quite a different story in the U.K. Its vaccine rollout seems ahead of schedule now. It's planning to move up its target date for one dose to all adults to July 31st.
In Australia, prime minister Scott Morris has become one of the first to get a shot. The country's mass vaccination program supposed to start Monday.
With so many countries ramping up vaccinations, there is hope the coronavirus could be under control. But not for everyone. The nightmare continues for people who contracted COVID-19 but whose symptoms are lasting much longer than expected. Dr. Sanjay Gupta explains.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A constant chest pain and pressure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would have some bad brain fog and, like, feelings of confusion.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: What you're hearing is the description of a relatively new phenomenon, post-COVID syndrome. Many people who have it, like 34-year-old Stephanie Connedra and 50-year-old Michael Regan call themselves long haul he recalls.
They were diagnosed with COVID, thought they would get better soon but are still feeling symptoms months later.
You think about a viral infection like this, you think it's going to resolve, but 11 months later, would you say that you're worse now than you were at the beginning of all of this?
REGAN: I had a brief period where I felt like I was on the mend and then the seizures started and then more complicated issues started.
GUPTA: Regan has been an on-the-go kind of guy, traveling, rock climbing, running. But last March, after waking up in a sweat, he ended up in the hospital for two months. We first spoke last summer.
I honestly thought that when I would speak to you again that we would be having a very different conversation.
REGAN: Last time I spoke to you I thought six months later that I would be doing cartwheels down Madison Avenue or something. I've been on steroids. I have been on anti-inflammatories. I have been on antivirals and nothing is fixing it. GUPTA: So far the treatments have largely been focused on symptoms, nothing yet for the underlying disease itself. And you may be wondering just how common then is post-COVID long-haulers? A new study in the "Journal of the American Medical Association" found that 30 percent of participants who had COVID still had symptoms up to nine months later, 30 percent. The most common, fatigue and loss of smell or taste.
DR. ZIJIAN CHEN, MOUNT SINAI, CENTER FOR POST-COVID CARE: It's very hard to predict who will get these symptoms.
GUPTA: Dr. Zijian Chen is medical director of the Post COVID Care Center for the Mount Sinai Health System. They have seen more than 1,600 patients since they opened their doors in May, patients now waiting months to get an appointment.
CHEN: The patients we're seeing at the center, they're of all races. They span in age from their 20s to 70s and 80s. We have patients who are both male and female of equal distribution.
GUPTA: People who had milder illnesses, are they less likely to have persistent symptoms?
CHEN: I would presume that if you had a preexisting condition that the infection with the virus can worsen that condition. But, again, we're also seeing patients who were previously healthy had somewhat relatively mild illness.
GUPTA: In fact, more severe disease or advanced age do not seem to be predictors of post-COVID. Many coming to the center are under the age of 50 and they never went to the hospital, like Stephanie (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some really bad sinus pain.
GUPTA: Six months after her positive test, she still has inflammation in her heart tissue and memory issues.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The neurologist explained there's probably a slight inflammation in your brain, which is why you're feeling the brain fog.
GUPTA: The theory is that the body is essentially now attacking itself, explains Dr. Dayna McCarthy, who is also part of Mount Sinai's Post-COVID Center.
DR. DAYNA MCCARTHY, MOUNT SINAI CENTER FOR POST-COVID CARE: An individual's body is now responding to fight off the virus, but in that process it's then identifying itself as being something that is foreign as well.
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GUPTA: A year into this pandemic, there is still so little known about what is driving this. Most striking is that a respiratory virus could then manifest into cardiac issues and neurological ones as well. MCCARTHY: When you're young and healthy and you're used to being in fifth gear, you're full steam ahead and now we're telling you, you really have to shift down to allow your body what it needs to recuperate and recover. We are seeing patients get better, it's just glacially slow.
REGAN: These people aren't just suffering from fatigue or malaise or whatever, but they actually have a very real disease.
GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.
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HOLMES: Coming up on the program, anti-coup protesters in Myanmar refusing to back down, even after the bloodiest police crackdown yet. The latest on the fight for democracy coming up.
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HOLMES: Welcome back to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. I'm Michael Holmes. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM.
We are seeing more pro-democracy protests in Myanmar today. They followed the deadliest day of demonstrations so far.
A volunteer emergency worker telling Reuters that two people were killed, 20 wounded on Saturday when police opened fire on protesters in the city of Mandalay. World leaders are watching all of this with alarm, begging military leaders not to crack down on peaceful demonstrations.
Selina Wang is tracking this from Tokyo.
Clearly, Selina, neither side giving ground. Update us on the situation.
SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michael, as these protests have intensified over the last two weeks.
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WANG: There have been growing concerns about the potential for violence but now we are seeing those fears play out, as you said.
Police opened fire on protesters in Mandalay on Saturday, leaving at least two dead and at least 20 injured. This is according to Reuters and AFP, citing emergency workers that were on the ground.
Now CNN has confirmed that live rounds and tear gas were used to disperse protesters. CNN has obtained video, where you can see large crowds of people running away from police and taking shelter behind whatever they can find. In another video that CNN has obtained, you can see a person being
taken away by medics. This violence is happening after a woman died on Friday after a fatal shot to the head and this young woman has become a symbol of the movement and galvanizing the protesters who are, each day, risking arrest by the actions that they're taking -- Michael.
HOLMES: I'm wondering how protesters are reacting to the increase in pressure from the military, I mean, how they feel about the growing pressure and these sort of snatches that we're seeing at night as well.
WANG: Michael, CNN has spoken to many protesters who are fearlessly marching during the daytime but then at night they're going into hiding and going from house to house to avoid arrest. They are terrified of being dragged out of their beds at night or during these early-morning raids which are becoming more frequent since the military took over.
According to a Burmese human rights organization, they say there have been more than 500 arrests since February 1st, including civilians, journalists, activists as well as even monks, student leaders and politicians.
These protesters are organizing each day, despite the internet curfews each day. Before the internet goes down they are scrambling on social media apps, on encrypted messaging apps to organize for the next day.
Many of these people feel they are fighting for their future, even though these demonstrations are dominated by young people. Many remember the days of the brutal military regimes for more than 50 years.
Myanmar has been ruled by these brutal dictatorships, plunging the country into poverty. Now that they have tasted democracy, they don't want to go back -- Michael.
HOLMES: Yes, indeed. Selina Wang in Tokyo, appreciate it. Thank you so much.
The head of the International Atomic Energy Agency just arrived in Tehran to discuss Iran's nuclear program. The trip comes after Iran suggested it would scale back cooperating with the organization.
Just days ago, the Biden administration announced it is willing to talk with Iran about a way forward. The nations have been at a stalemate since the Trump administration pulled out of the 2015 Iran nuclear deal. Iran is demanding the U.S. lift all sanctions imposed by the Trump administration.
Political commentator Peter Beinart joins us, author of "The Beinart Notebook" on substack.com. Urge you to get on that list, I am.
Peter, let's talk about the piece in "The New York Times." You describe sanctions as being, quote, "the modern equivalent of surrounding a city and trying to starve it into submission. The more accurate term would be siege." Explain what you mean by that.
PETER BEINART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I wasn't referring to all U.S. sanctions. I was referring specifically to what are called secondary sanctions, where the United States not only refuses to trade with a country itself but essentially tries to force the rest of the world to stop trading with that country as well.
My argument was that this policy that the United States has adopted towards a number of countries is ineffective. It doesn't actually lead to the goals that the United States wants. And rather than actually changing oppressive regimes, it really punishes the people who are already suffering.
HOLMES: Secondary sanctions -- let's talk more broadly about sanctions. When you think back, it's difficult to find a case where U.S. sanctions have actually effectively changed the behavior of a regime or government in a meaningful way.
You think of Iraq in the '90s, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela. The people hurt are mostly civilians and the leaders get the cream of what remains.
Is it fair to say that sanctions are pretty limited in what they can do?
BEINART: Yes. I think sanctions are very limited in what they can do. I think what has happened is, because the United States has not much appetite to use military force anymore, because it still wants to find a way of registering its disapproval for regimes that does things that it doesn't like.
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BEINART: It turns to sanctions very frequently. Now again, there may be certain cases where very targeted, limited sanctions on a few officials who have done egregious things like, let's say in Myanmar, could serve as a deterrent and could be part of a larger strategy with other countries that could have some chance of success.
But too often what we find in the United States is the sanctions really have no chance of realistically changing the behavior of the country it wants to change. And the brunt is not borne by the people who committed the offenses but by the people under their regime who are already suffering.
HOLMES: I guess, you know, a lot of people these days would argue that mind your own business can be sound policy, except in extreme circumstances.
But in those extreme circumstances, what perhaps is a better tool to deal with government outrages other than these specific sanctions?
BEINART: Well, I think the United States has to have realistic goals. Let's take North Korea, for instance. The United States, along with other countries, have been imposing massive sanctions on North Korea for years and years and years in order to get North Korea to give up on its nuclear weapons program.
But North Korea has, by some estimate 60 nuclear weapons. There's no reason to believe that they're going to give up their nuclear weapons at all. So essentially what we're doing is we're putting on these sanctions, which is making it hard for people who are already brutalized by the horrific regime to even -- literally it's made it hard for humanitarian organizations to even work in North Korea.
And yet it's not connected to a strategy that is remotely realistic. If you look at the Obama sanctions against Iran that he imposed in his first term, those had a very serious human cost as well and I think are ethically challenging in that regard.
But at least they were part of a global strategy that had a realistic goal in terms of getting Iran back to the table for a nuclear compromise. Too often, that's not the U.S. policy.
HOLMES: Yes. And the humanitarian aspect is interesting and your article mentions the case of the humanitarian organization that couldn't get wheelchairs or crutches into North Korea because they were affected by the sanctions regime.
Real quick, because we're almost out of time, are many of these sanctions are counterproductive to the notion of American power, literal power, economic power?
Do they sometimes backfire, do self-harm?
BEINART: Yes, I think absolutely. Essentially what the United States does is it tells foreign companies and banks that they can't have access to the dollar, which is the mechanism for much international trade, unless they abide by U.S. sanctions.
So what essentially you're doing is you're incentivizing countries in Europe and the rest of the world to look for an alternative to the dollar as the currency, through which they make trade.
If that happens, that will be a serious blow since the dollar, as the world's reserve currency, is a major underpinning of American power. And we're putting that at risk.
HOLMES: Fascinating article in "The New York Times." Urge you to read it.
Peter Beinart, always a pleasure, good to see you, thanks.
BEINART: Thank you.
HOLMES: It has been months since any tourists have been able to see the Mona Lisa in person or any other treasure inside the Louvre. Even so, the world's largest museum still hard at work. We'll show you when we come back.
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HOLMES: A small scuffle between police and anti-vaccination protesters in Melbourne, Australia, on Saturday. Hundreds came out to mostly peaceful demonstrations there and also in Sydney ahead of the country's mass COVID vaccination program that begins Monday.
Some carried signs that read "Coercion is not consent" or "My body, my choice," though getting a shot is not mandatory. The prime minister's office says they aim to administer some 60,000 vaccine doses by the end of the month.
Paris' Louvre museum has been closed for months now because of social distancing restrictions. Even those who live in France haven't been able to pop in and see the Mona Lisa. It's hurting the bottom line as you might imagine but curators are finally getting their hands on something money can't buy. CNN's Saskya Vandoorne reports.
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SASKYA VANDOORNE, CNN PRODUCER (voice-over): The world's most visited museum awakens. But there are no visitors here. Escalators that once carried 40,000 pairs of feet a day whistle in the eerie emptiness brought on by COVID restrictions.
Venus de Milo, Liberty Leading the People and the Mona Lisa are having a break from their usual crowds of admirers. What were bustling halls take mere minutes to walk through. Sculptures forced into hibernation in this Renaissance palace. But they're not completely alone.
GAUTIER MOYSSET, LOUVRE MUSEUM: It's still living, even though it seems really asleep from the outside.
VANDOORNE (voice-over): Since October when the Louvre closed, hundreds of artisans have been working five days a week to refurbish and rejuvenate. With the stroke of a brush or the crank of a forklift.
MOYSSET: We have we have all the arts that are being stored or just studied by the curators. We have all the maintenance work that obviously can't stop. So it's really rewarding. The stakes are pretty high, let's say. You don't want to spoil what people have been looking at for centuries.
VANDOORNE: Not since World War II has the Louvre been shuttered to the public for so long. Last year it lost 90 million euros in revenue. But curators here say they have regained something more valuable: time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking French).
VANDOORNE (voice-over): These 19th century doors that once opened into the bedchamber of French kings are being restored to their former beauty.
[00:50:00] MOYSSET: You have different these layers meant to recreate all in all the veins of the wood because you have, you know, so many different colors when you look that closely.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking French).
VANDOORNE (voice-over): These doors will be finished in three weeks. When the Louvre will reopen is anyone's guess. The belief here is that art comes alive through the public's eye. Until then, the museum prepares for its resurrection -- Saskya Vandoorne, CNN, Paris.
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HOLMES: Naomi Osaka, done it again. She's the winner of the 2021 Australian Open. When we come back, we'll tell you what she hopes to hear one day in the future. Stay with us.
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HOLMES: Naomi Osaka is showing once again why she's the person to beat in women's tennis.
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HOLMES: The 23-year-old from Japan won the 2021 Australian Open, defeating the number 22 seed Jennifer Brady from the U.S. on Saturday. It was a tight first set but Osaka's skills and experience proved too much for Brady, who was in her first grand slam final.
Osaka winning in just under 1.5 hours, straight sets. After the match talking about what remains her long-term goal.
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NAOMI OSAKA, AUSTRALIAN OPEN CHAMPION: Hopefully, I play long enough to play a girl that said that I was once her favorite player or something. For me I think that's the coolest thing that could ever happen to me. I think I have those feelings of, you know, watching my favorite players.
Unfortunately, I didn't get to play Li Na. But, yes, I just think that that's how the sport moves forward.
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HOLMES: Now the win gives Osaka her fourth grand slam title and second Australian Open win.
"Jeopardy" host Alex Trebek died this past November, you remember. But his memory lives on in a big way, thanks to his son, Matthew. Matthew Trebek donated his father's wardrobe, including 300 neckties, 58 dress shirts, 25 polo shirts, 15 belts, 14 suits and nine sports coats as well as some sweaters and shoes.
All of the items were sent to a non-profit fund called The Dough Fund. The organization provides housing, job counseling and other opportunities for some 800 men with histories of homelessness, substance abuse and incarceration.
What a great idea.
Thanks for watching CNN NEWSROOM and spending part of your day with me. I'm Michael Holmes. For our international viewers, "QUEST'S WORLD OF WONDER" is up next. For everyone here in North America, I'll be back with another hour of news in a moment.
